I might be early!

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » May 18, 2006, 12:05 pm

Sylvus wrote:
noel wrote:I do however have one point of gripe. Can we please get a moratorium on 'Sheed guaranteeing anything like... forever?
Hey, he was 4-0 before this series!

3-0

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 18, 2006, 1:20 pm

Cartalas wrote:The Way I see it is The Eastern and Western Conference Finals are being played now, Clev, Det,Dall and SA are playing some fun ball.

PHX beat DAL last year and split regular season with them this year I think (first game of the season DAL won in double OT)

If the Suns close out the Clippers tonight or Monday, I wouldn't give DAL the WCF that easily. (if DAL can close out SA)

As a Suns fan, I'd much rather play Dallas than San Antonio considering lineups.

noel · Post by **noel** » May 18, 2006, 1:35 pm

If you look at it from a buzz standpoint, this is really the best of both worlds for the NBA. Suffering from poor ratings in the past years, the teams still left are poised to give the NBA something they've wanted for years... A Finals that doesn't involve SA or Detroit. For whatever reason it seems like most people don't appreciate the lockdown defense and team ball that SA and Detroit play... Should those two teams lose, the NBA would have:

D. Wade vs. Lebron
P. Riley going for 5, Shaq going for 4 and D. Wade going for 1
Nash vs. his former team
Cuban being fined $X00,000 for bitching about the conference finals and Finals officiating... and really, what's better than a monobrow getting fined serious jack?
Potentially... Lebron in the Finals. Regardless of where you live I think this is an exciting prospect (I don't think this will happen for the record, but I'd love it if it did)

So basically it's looking like the next round is a win-win for the NBA's ratings.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 18, 2006, 1:46 pm

Considering the Suns came back from down 3-1 the last series, I wouldn't count out any team that's still alive.

I hope that changes after tonight's game!

Nash is in bad shape and Marion has a possible gimp ankle and has got to be worn out so I hope the Suns can somehow have a good shooting night and put this series away. If Nash can improve upon 0-13 three point shooting the past few games, I think we'll be in good shape even if Brand gets 40.

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » May 19, 2006, 1:45 am

Hard to win games when you allow your opponent to shoot over 60%.

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » May 19, 2006, 1:47 am

Not to mention beat you by +20 on the boards! The reasons why the suns only lost by 12 are because they turned the ball over less and hit a lot of 3s.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 19, 2006, 2:40 am

I think if the Suns had a choice they would have skipped this game altogether and have taken five full days rest. They expect Brand to get his 30-40pts. Ross and Maggette having good nights clinched it for the Clippers. It's not a sure thing, but I like the Suns chances in game seven. They really need these three days off though.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » May 19, 2006, 3:01 pm

I cant believe Jason Terry got suspended for that!!!! Damnit

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » May 19, 2006, 9:16 pm

Correct suspension though, in line with what else they have suspended for (with exception of the missed kick by Nash).

noel · Post by **noel** » May 19, 2006, 10:29 pm

What I wanna know is... What's with all the shots to the nuts in this year's playoffs?

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » May 20, 2006, 8:34 am

Kelshara wrote:Correct suspension though, in line with what else they have suspended for (with exception of the missed kick by Nash).

Yeah it just sucks though

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » May 20, 2006, 11:58 am

Detroit and San Antonio showed some toughness last night. I really want to see Dallas and Cleveland in the next round, but I fear it may not happen now.

StupidMcDupid · Post by **StupidMcDupid** » May 20, 2006, 3:23 pm

wow,something fired up my spurs! Game 7 now baby! And i was there along with many other SA people waiting at the airport to see the Champs come back from a well played game last night.And michael finley has been on fire, giving eric dampier 2 facials in the last 2 games,lol.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » May 21, 2006, 10:15 pm

Pistons, bitches.

Post by **Sylvus** » May 22, 2006, 12:15 am

I'm convinced that David Stern asked the Pistons to throw 3 of the games in that series so that the NBA could properly market LeBron.

Next it's the Dwayne Wade show.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » May 22, 2006, 3:40 am

I'm convinced that David Stern asked the Pistons to throw 3 of the games in that series so that the NBA could properly market LeBron.

I considered it too! One of the postgame articles I read talked about how the Pistons let James score in the first half so that when they altered their defense in the second half, Cleveland's coach wouldn't have enough time to retaliate.

And oh my god, was he fuckin' contained. The second half of game 7 was what the Pistons had been sitting on for the past four games. It was a show.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 22, 2006, 4:07 am

It's a relief to see that the Pistons were able to stop one man vs five! Impressive!

Miami will be 1.5 men vs five...I wonder how the Pistons will fare again this year vs the West when they have to play five on five again!

Tonight should be a great double header. The Spurs and Suns have a big advantage for game seven but neither game will be a cakewalk like the Pistons got for game seven. Funny though how if the Spurs and Suns win, the final four will be exactly as one would probably predict before the playoffs began, even with all the great series that have been played so far.

I'll be rooting on Dallis tonight but if they don't win, I hope Terry gets a good nut punch in on Duncan!

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » May 22, 2006, 9:41 am

Well to be fair, the Pistons played 1 vs 5 on defense. But they always play 4 vs 5 on offense heh.

Post by **Sylvus** » May 22, 2006, 11:42 am

Winnow wrote:It's a relief to see that the Pistons were able to stop one man vs five! Impressive!

Miami will be 1.5 men vs five...I wonder how the Pistons will fare again this year vs the West when they have to play five on five again!

Yeah, nearly as impressive as being able to stop that Lakers juggernaut...

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 22, 2006, 12:37 pm

Sylvus wrote:
Winnow wrote:It's a relief to see that the Pistons were able to stop one man vs five! Impressive!

Miami will be 1.5 men vs five...I wonder how the Pistons will fare again this year vs the West when they have to play five on five again!
Yeah, nearly as impressive as being able to stop that Lakers juggernaut...

As you saying Smush Parker is no Chauncey Billups!?

noel · Post by **noel** » May 22, 2006, 2:05 pm

Winnow wrote:As you saying Smush Parker is no Chauncey Billups!?

I don't know about any of that, but I do know that Kwame Brown is no Ben Wallace!

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » May 22, 2006, 2:28 pm

I only have two words to say...

Go Clippers I hope you can beat the Suns so I don't have to hear about them from Winnow anymore. Please beat them, PLEASE.

Sorry Truant, I could not resist.

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » May 22, 2006, 11:47 pm

Some questionable officiating. I can't remember having ever seen Duncan go to the line as many times as he did tonight.

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » May 23, 2006, 12:12 am

Cartalas wrote:Gratz Spurs on NBA Championship , Total Domination. God I hate them

You were early

noel · Post by **noel** » May 23, 2006, 12:37 am

Pherr the Dorf wrote:
Cartalas wrote:Gratz Spurs on NBA Championship , Total Domination. God I hate them
You were early

He was early, but I bet he's thrilled.

Grats Mavs, grats Cart! (pretty sure that's his team)

Edit: Fuck! Two more weeks of this shit.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 23, 2006, 3:07 am

Suns 127 Clippers 107 (Phoenix wins series 4-3)

Blowout!

Grats on the big win Cart!

Now we get a rematch of last year's great Suns/Mavs playoff series.

Suns are too small...Suns play no defense...Suns don't have Amare...Suns are in the Western Conference Finals bitches!

I know you people like to whine about how small and sucky the Suns are but in a seven game series, can you really stop the offensive might of the Solar Express?

Dallas won the first two games this year (first game of the year went to double OT) and Phoenix won the last two games including a key game when Dallas was still in the race for the best record. Phoenix won last years playoff matchup vs Dallas.

So go ahead people...start lining up to tell me how the playoffs are different and how Dallas is going to kill the Suns. I think it will be another close series for the right to go school the East again.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » May 23, 2006, 4:29 am

Winnow's Suns posts can all be thrown into a box, shuffled around, and then picked at random and placed in his next Suns post to say what he will undoubtedly say.

That is... until the Mavs beat them!

KEKEKEKE

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » May 23, 2006, 8:07 am

Thanks all What a grea series Hats off To SA they fought all the way to the end. Gratz Winnow on your Suns this should be another great series.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » May 23, 2006, 9:20 am

Congrats Cart and other Mavs fans. Didn't get to watch the game but as a huge Spurs fan I am now officially pouting hah! Of course I am torn on Mavs, I love Avery but hate the whiny loudmouth owner.

I will say that I think Spurs match up better vs Suns than the Mavs do. Will be interesting to see which high-powered offense will win the series. Especially since only one team knows what the word defense means. But the Suns have a decent chance to win.

Then they will meet the Pistons and whine about forgetting to bring the lube.

noel · Post by **noel** » May 23, 2006, 11:50 am

Interesting note about the Mavs/Spurs series: If you take away the two overtime periods in the series, the Mavs total margin of victory in the seven game series was a whopping FIVE points. Fantastic series by both teams. I was especially impressed with Duncan who played like a MVP throughout the series.

Tonight, Eastern Conference Finals rematch! Shaq says he's ready! I hope he fucking is.

I give the Suns a good shot to beat the Mavs or Heat, but not the Pistons if they're playing like they should (read: Not like they played against the Cavs). The fact is though, the Suns are not nearly as impressive as Winnow would have us believe. Both LA teams took them to seven games, and in both series, it could have gone another way. If you want us to start believing in the Suns or taking them seriously, they need to start blowing teams the fuck out.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » May 23, 2006, 12:22 pm

As I have told Xou a couple times, the most important thing about this series is that Dallas can finally tell SA fans to stfu. Because they've been running at the mouth non stop since they won the show.

edit. punctuation.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 23, 2006, 12:56 pm

noel wrote:If you want us to start believing in the Suns or taking them seriously, they need to start blowing teams the fuck out.

See: most recent game seven vs Clippers.

The Suns are streaky but they seem to put it together enough to win seven game series. There's no denying that the Suns have the firepower to blow anyone out of the building if they're on so you've got to give them a shot in any series.

D'Antoni is a great coach as well. If you watched last night's game, he spread the floor and made Elton Brand come out on Boris Diaw which allowed the Suns to match the Clippers in rebounds and allowed Boris to blow by Elton Brand for layups. There was no way the Suns could match up to Elton Brand. He scored at will...as did Kobe. The key is that other teams must match up to the Suns as well...and that's hard to do when you have big men like Tim Thomas and Diaw that can sit on the perimeter and make the big men come out and guard them.

Another key to last night's game was that the Clippers put Mobley on Tim Thomas because they wanted to keep Brand under the hoop for rebounds...what that did was allow Tim Thomas to back down the little guy that was on him and score at will down low.

It was an excellent game plan and although the Suns outscored the Clippers 45-0 on three pointers, they also had an inside game due to matchups.

Obviously, I'm glad Phoenix is playing Dallas instead of San Antonio because Duncan causes all sorts of foul trouble for the Suns while Dallas has Dirk who is an offensive machine but not the powerhouse down low that Duncan is.

Probable Matchups

Marion on Dirk
Raja Bell on Jason Terry (maybe Josh Howard)
Nash (question is more like who is going to guard him?)
Diaw helping to double team on Dirk

It should be a fun series to watch!

noel · Post by **noel** » May 23, 2006, 1:04 pm

I agree with absolutely everything you said... but... and this is a big but... none of it is possible unless the Suns are shooting well. Sure you can design plays that give people high percentage shots, but what happens when the other team's defense is actually good?

The easiest way I can say it is that the Suns can only win if they're shooting well. They're excellent at putting together gameplans that allow them to do that, but on nights when they're not shooting well they lose because they're too one dimensional. If the Suns could learn to lock down their defense on nights when they weren't shooting well, they'd easily be in the caliber of championship teams of the past, and we'd have to look the fuck out. I know you'll point out that with Amare and Kurt out, it's a difficult proposition, but the fact that the Suns don't seem to be able to really lock another team down really does hurt their legitimacy.

The Suns might make it to the Finals this year, but they've struggled against two teams (largely due to the idiotic seeding the NBA has this year) that they should have just mowed down. Now they're about to face their first truly legitimate competition of the playoffs, and if they can't learn to play defense overnight, I think it's being generous to say it's a coin toss.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » May 23, 2006, 1:18 pm

Winnow wrote:The key is that other teams must match up to the Suns as well...and that's hard to do when you have big men like Tim Thomas and Diaw that can sit on the perimeter and make the big men come out and guard them.

That's the key that Rasheed and Tayshaun so often exploit. The difference is that they're tall and can post up the same big men.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 23, 2006, 1:23 pm

noel wrote:I agree with absolutely everything you said... but... and this is a big but... none of it is possible unless the Suns are shooting well. Sure you can design plays that give people high percentage shots, but what happens when the other team's defense is actually good?

The Suns hold or are near the top spots for Field Goal percentage, Free Throw percentage, Three point FG percentage, PPG, Point differential, etc.

At some point, you've got to accept that it's their style to oustcore other teams. Dallas has got to be considered one of the better teams in the league right? The Suns managed to split the season series with them. The Suns live and die by their shooting but they seem to live more than they die. Their defense, while far from one of the best, has it's good points and those are well suited to their style of play (steals, etc)

The challenge here is for traditionalists (likers of boring basketball) to embrace a different style of basketball that makes no excuses about being based around outscoring the other team. If the Suns are on, your team is going to get smoked, if they aren't, the opposite happens but usually the Suns won't get blown out as often due to their ability to score quickly in bunches.

We've seen numerous times this post season that the Suns can handle the pressure of close games and win them (otherwise they wouldn't still be in the playoffs). I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to be playing the Suns as they are a crapshoot and a solid defensive team would rather play a team that they wouldn't have to sit back and hope won't outscore them if both teams shoot their normal GF, FT and Three Point percentages.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » May 23, 2006, 1:27 pm

The challenge here is for traditionalists (likers of boring basketball) to embrace a different style of basketball that makes no excuses about being based around outscoring the other team.

What most people in this thread are debating is whether or not their perfectly acceptable style of play has any merit against the elite. From what is known (and from what you mercilessly pound into our brains), it's no argument that the Suns are really, really good at what they do. But is what they do going to hold a candle to teams that play "boring" basketball? We'll see.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 23, 2006, 1:30 pm

Leonaerd wrote:
The challenge here is for traditionalists (likers of boring basketball) to embrace a different style of basketball that makes no excuses about being based around outscoring the other team.
What most people in this thread are debating is whether or not their perfectly acceptable style of play has any merit against the elite. From what is known (and from what you mercilessly pound into our brains), it's no argument that the Suns are really, really good at what they do. But is what they do going to hold a candle to teams that play "boring" basketball? We'll see.

The point I'm trying to make is that other teams have to match up to the Suns as much as the Suns have to match up to other styles of play. Hell yes, I'd rather have a healthy Amare in the line up. I don't think you start mentioning the Suns with the "elite" until he's back (and hopefully healthy)...it still doesn't mean that the Suns can't win it this year.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » May 23, 2006, 1:34 pm

I think we'll all consider them quite elite if they beat Dallas. Everybody's accustomed to the Suns putting up powerful numbers. But they've only had to compete against the Cali teams so far, and I don't think that's an adequate test.

Yes, the powerful Suns offense must be matched up to. Ok.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » May 23, 2006, 1:44 pm

Winnow wrote:I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to be playing the Suns as they are a crapshoot and a solid defensive team would rather play a team that they wouldn't have to sit back and hope won't outscore them if both teams shoot their normal GF, FT and Three Point percentages.

If a team is worried about the part in bold, they are not a solid defensive team. Fast, high-scoring games/teams are not always successful against a slower defensive team. See late 80's/early 90's Nuggets games for examples.

Post by **Sylvus** » May 23, 2006, 1:44 pm

Winnow wrote:
noel wrote:I agree with absolutely everything you said... but... and this is a big but... none of it is possible unless the Suns are shooting well. Sure you can design plays that give people high percentage shots, but what happens when the other team's defense is actually good?
The Suns hold or are near the top spots for Field Goal percentage, Free Throw percentage, Three point FG percentage, PPG, Point differential, etc.

Their point differential is lower than 2 of the three other teams in the conference finals! And they lost to the pistons twice this year, and never kept them below 100 points. The Pistons won 90% of the games they scored 100 points in this year (Suns were 73%), and the Suns only won 45% of the games their opponents scored 100 in (to Detroits 60%). Now I'm kind of hoping that the Suns beat the Mavs and the Pistons beat the Heat, if only so you'll shut the fuck up about them when they get swept by the Pistons!

/edit: though I'm sure regardless of who the Suns lose to, we're still going to get 30 or 40 posts before next season starts about how good they're finally going to be now that they have Amare back.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » May 23, 2006, 1:45 pm

Sylvus wrote:
Winnow wrote:
noel wrote:I agree with absolutely everything you said... but... and this is a big but... none of it is possible unless the Suns are shooting well. Sure you can design plays that give people high percentage shots, but what happens when the other team's defense is actually good?
The Suns hold or are near the top spots for Field Goal percentage, Free Throw percentage, Three point FG percentage, PPG, Point differential, etc.
Their point differential is lower than 2 of the three other teams in the conference finals! And they lost to the pistons twice this year, and never kept them below 100 points. The Pistons won 90% of the games they scored 100 points in this year (Suns were 73%), and the Suns only won 45% of the games their opponents scored 100 in (to Detroits 60%). Now I'm kind of hoping that the Suns beat the Mavs and the Pistons beat the Heat, if only so you'll shut the fuck up about them when they get swept by the Pistons!

He's still stuck reading that page of stats he tried to quote....backwards.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 23, 2006, 1:59 pm

The Suns have matured as a team since then!

Take away the last two minutes of the Detroit/Suns games and Phoenix lead both of those games 95% of the game so don't go thinking Detroit had an easy time with the Suns!

Take at look at the early season Suns @ Detroit game:

Now that doesn't look like a blowout to me! Looks pretty damn even.

Post by **Sylvus** » May 23, 2006, 2:15 pm

I never said they would blow them out, just that they'd sweep them. We won by an average of 7.5 ppg, that's higher than our usual differential!

You need get ol' MVP some defense lessons, Chauncey averaged 31 ppg and 8 assists vs. the Suns this year. Not to mention that the most valuable player only put up 15.5 ppg and 8.5 assists. It's a moot point though, the Suns aren't going to make it past the Mavs.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » May 23, 2006, 2:19 pm

We've seen numerous times this post season that the Suns can handle the pressure of close games and win them

Not that this stat perfectly summarizing what you're talking about, but the Suns did not win a single game all season that was decided by 3 points or less. They've only won one such game in the playoffs.

Furthermore, if the Suns are so good at handling the pressure of close games and winning, then it shouldn't be necessary for you to lop off the last two minutes of their games against the Pistons in order to generate statistics which are favorable to your argument.

Also, Steve Nash being forced to guard either Jason Terry or Devin Harris will probably be a bigger matchup problem for the Suns than any that they can generate against the Mavericks. Dallas has the players to chase your 3 point shooters around the court.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » May 23, 2006, 2:27 pm

Kelgar wrote:There's a lot of drama going on in the 3 remaining series. All 3 going to game 7s would be David Stern's wet dream.

I heard his orgasm from across the country.

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » May 23, 2006, 2:30 pm

Leonaerd wrote:Winnow's Suns posts can all be thrown into a box, shuffled around, and then picked at random and placed in his next Suns post to say what he will undoubtedly say.

That is... until the Mavs beat them!

KEKEKEKE

except that he's right almost every time and you guys keep making up excuses and it's really funny to watch you get so upset.

the real nba finals are the suns vs mavs imo.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 23, 2006, 2:42 pm

Sueven wrote: Furthermore, if the Suns are so good at handling the pressure of close games and winning, then it shouldn't be necessary for you to lop off the last two minutes of their games against the Pistons in order to generate statistics which are favorable to your argument.

Also, Steve Nash being forced to guard either Jason Terry or Devin Harris will probably be a bigger matchup problem for the Suns than any that they can generate against the Mavericks. Dallas has the players to chase your 3 point shooters around the court.

If any team was perfect at handling pressure, they'd be 82-0.

Phoenix vs Dallas is a good matchup. I think the Suns can double team Dirk with Marion and Diaw while both teams can score from every position.

Talk to the opposing teams and see who thinks guarding Nash is a cakewalk and then get back to me on how big a deal it is if Terry scores a few more points than Nash while Nash dishes the ball off left and right to his teamates.

Get back to me when you find an opposing coach that thinks having Nash on the opposing team is a good thing.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » May 23, 2006, 3:17 pm

Tyrannosaurus SEX wrote:the real nba finals are the suns vs mavs imo.

heh remind me not to get any of whatever you are smoking

noel · Post by **noel** » May 23, 2006, 3:49 pm

Kelshara wrote:
Tyrannosaurus SEX wrote:the real nba finals are the suns vs mavs imo.
heh remind me not to get any of whatever you are smoking

Stragi, you're on drugs. I could make a more legitimate argument that the real finals are the Eastern conference finals...

Post by **Sylvus** » May 23, 2006, 3:50 pm

Tyrannosaurus SEX wrote:the real nba finals are the suns vs mavs imo.

Yeah, let's disregard the East entirely, even though the Pistons had the best record in the NBA and went 7-1 against the Clippers, Suns, Spurs and Mavericks (with the only loss coming to the Mavs).

The West isn't that good.

VeeshanVault

I might be early!

Re: I might be early!

Re: I might be early!