2006 E3 Hoopla

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 13, 2006, 4:04 am

kyoukan wrote: when 360 launched with a $500 premium edition, the demand for that far exceeded the standard version. the ps3 is only a hundred dollars more,

When you start off by quoting the price of the high end Xbox 360 and are off by 100.00 and then build your argument off of that, contining to refer to a 100.00 savings when it's 200.00, it's hard to take you seriously. The Xbox 360 versions retail for 299 and 399 skippy! I wasn't going to bother pointing out your typically shitty facts but...dayum!

I quoted the source this time. Happy now?

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » May 13, 2006, 4:11 am

It's pretty obvious I meant to type $400, because it is clear to anyone who's brain is capable of focussing on more than just anime drawn 12 year old girls that I am comparing the premium edition xbox with the low end PS3. why do you insist on fagging up every thread with your dumb?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 13, 2006, 4:18 am

Then it's pretty obvious your a moron for also quoting a 100.00 difference afterwards several times when it's 200.00.

Even trade. I can deal with that.

kyoukan wrote:the hardcore and early adopters will pay $100 more for 1080p support and hdmi alone

You're not getting 1080p and a large HD unless you're pumping out 599.00 (or 600.00 to attempt your dramatic effect at rolling the cost up by a cent...hmm so you were actually off by $100.01...dont' want to short change you!)

I know...it's pretty obvious when reading kyoukan posts that you really mean something that makes sense and people that can actually balance a checkbook will figure out what the fuck you're talking about, even if it throws off your entire arguement because you yourself are to stupid to figure out the difference.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » May 13, 2006, 5:59 am

Winnow wrote:Then it's pretty obvious your a moron

yea ok.

keep dwelling on that typo. you might get another 19 or 20 posts out of it like you milk everything else with your limited imagination.

way to foul up another thread.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » May 13, 2006, 9:35 am

I wouldn't be surprised if MS dropped the price of the 360 around the time the PS3 launched. Either that or started bundling the HD-DVD drive with the Premium version at the same price and dropped 50$ off the price of the Core.

What I would consider doing is dropping the core version altogether this fall and making the current premium version the core version and dropping the price on that.

One last thing, I can understand Kyo's typo as the 360 premium is 499$ cdn up here and I've caught myself a few times when talking prices with americans.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » May 13, 2006, 9:57 am

Here's an interesting article. MS VP endorsing Nintendo.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060511/tc_ ... osoft_dc_1

Peter Moore wrote: "Tell me why you would buy a $600 PS3?" Peter Moore, a Microsoft vice president, said in an interview. "People are going to buy two (machines.) They're going to buy an Xbox and they're going to buy a Wii ... for the price of one PS3."

Sumdaor · Post by **Sumdaor** » May 13, 2006, 10:27 am

I have a xbox 360, and I am leaning towards not buying a PS3 at release. I do think the price is way to high, but for what your getting it's a bargain. I do not under any circumstance think the PS3 is going bomb in the U.S. I have to wonder if the delay of Vista is going to come back haunt M$ this holiday season. There are going to be a lot of ppl who are going to wait on computer upgrades till Vista is released and make other big purchases this holiday season(Like buying a PS3).

One other note, The 360 hardware wise is hardly impressive. I know of 6 ppl who own 360's. Now out of those 6 only 2 of us have not had to return our 360 to M$ because it crashed or started eating disk because of the shitty drive.

Right now M$ has the market share because its the only dog in town. If sony did lower the price of the PS3 this wouldn't even be a "console war". You would have M$ carrying Sony's jackstrap once again which is probably going to happen anyways.

Syenye · Post by **Syenye** » May 13, 2006, 12:02 pm

i think the ps3 will be plagued with the same problems microsoft had with the 360 in terms of supply. if they try to push out too many, they may also experience the same hardware issues. they weren't even running the games on ps3s, so i'm guessing it will be difficult to churn out a shitton of consoles before the holiday rush. granted, microsoft was still running the 360 on G5s this time last year, so it's plausible that sony can get it out by year end.

it's a bargain for the hardware, but jebus that thing is powerful for a console. maybe by release day there will be a definitive answer on the bluray vs hd-dvd, but other than that, they will have to have an impressive list of launch titles because they don't have microsoft's advantage of being the first. from what i saw, resistance: the fall of man was the only title that interested me at all.

sony will also be competing with the wii, and the japanese are fiercely loyal to nintendo (and to sony to a lesser extent). it's already clear that a prettier picture (psp) won't always triumph over innovation and gameplay (ds). the wii is like anything i've ever seen or played before. the ps3 is like a really expensive dvd player (and it's huge and ugly as well, while i think the wii is really slick... but i'm a fangirl).

and as peter moore pointed out, you can buy a 360 and a wii for the price of a ps3.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » May 13, 2006, 1:48 pm

sure, but why buy a wii when you can get a used xbox for $50. they are about equally as powerful.

peter moore is encouraging people to get a wii as a second machine because he knows the 360 can beat nintendo's machine.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » May 13, 2006, 2:33 pm

Winnow you cant get 1080p on an XBox 360 for $50,000 so i guess in that equation, $100 seems like a good deal for that functionality on the PS3!!

i'm sure you paid more than $100 for 1080p over 720p with your super leet theater of the week setup that you have.

People pay $150 for HDMI cables. Do you think they won't pay $100 for HDMI out?

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » May 13, 2006, 4:36 pm

kyoukan wrote:sure, but why buy a wii when you can get a used xbox for $50. they are about equally as powerful.

peter moore is encouraging people to get a wii as a second machine because he knows the 360 can beat nintendo's machine.

I don't figure it's about visuals but more about the experience.

The price is so high on both MS and Sony that for next gen games, most games will purchase either or, rarely both.

The Wii, for the price of the unit, will do well regardless of either. It's in MS's best interest to trumpet the fact that for less than the price of a premium PS3, you can get both the great visuals of a next gen console and the fantastic experience of the Wii. (And you can be damned sure that when the Wii launches, MS will re-adjust it's price to make sure that this is a fact.)

Nintendo, in the meanwhile, is getting fantastic publicity and great buzz.
As long as they can ensure that developpers keep making games with the Wiimote as the main control method, they will be golden.

Sumdaor · Post by **Sumdaor** » May 13, 2006, 4:55 pm

I don't figure it's about visuals but more about the experience.

If that where true I would still playing Golden Eye on my N64, but I don't.

Its a combination of both, I want good graphics, and great gameplay. Why should I have to sacrifice one or the other? The lack of HD on the Wii is going to keep me away from it, and I imagine most others outside of fanboi's.

archeiron · Post by **archeiron** » May 13, 2006, 11:39 pm

Sumdaor wrote:The lack of HD on the Wii is going to keep me away from it, and I imagine most others outside of fanboi's.

If your definition of fanboi is "someone who would buy a Wii", then you will certainly be correct. On the other hand, the low rates of HD adoption in homes in America combined with the low price of Nintendo's console and the Nintendo brand name will probably translate to mainstream success.

Sumdaor · Post by **Sumdaor** » May 13, 2006, 11:46 pm

If your definition of fanboi is "someone who would buy a Wii", then you will certainly be correct. On the other hand, the low rates of HD adoption in homes in America combined with the low price of Nintendo's console and the Nintendo brand name will probably translate to mainstream success.

And if by mainstream success you mean a distant third out of the three console vendors, but still making money because of substandard hardware. You would be correct.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » May 14, 2006, 12:09 am

Sumdaor wrote:...but still making money because of substandard hardware. You would be correct.

Kind of like non-HD TVs?

Sumdaor · Post by **Sumdaor** » May 14, 2006, 10:18 am

Sumdaor wrote:
And if by mainstream success you mean a distant third out of the three console vendors, but still making money because of substandard hardware. You would be correct.

Kind of like non-HD TVs?

I would wager that more households with hd tv's are going to purchase next gen's consoles vs standard tv households. Its that thing called disposable income.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » May 14, 2006, 11:20 am

Sumdaor wrote:
Sumdaor wrote:
And if by mainstream success you mean a distant third out of the three console vendors, but still making money because of substandard hardware. You would be correct.

Kind of like non-HD TVs?
I would wager that more households with hd tv's are going to purchase next gen's consoles vs standard tv households. Its that thing called disposable income.

That wasn't my point exactly...I was referring to the fact that "substandard hardware" is still making money. In this case, the substandard would be the non-HD TVs. Because there are still more non-HD, or Standard, TVs in use, the HD component would not be a deciding factor in the majority of purchases.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 14, 2006, 11:30 am

Voronwë wrote:Winnow you cant get 1080p on an XBox 360 for $50,000 so i guess in that equation, $100 seems like a good deal for that functionality on the PS3!!

i'm sure you paid more than $100 for 1080p over 720p with your super leet theater of the week setup that you have.

People pay $150 for HDMI cables. Do you think they won't pay $100 for HDMI out?

There are an amazing number of people who won't pay for HD. Sure, go visit the AVS Forums and you'll have people lined up to buy the latest gizmos no matter what the price but that is still a small segment of the population.

The difference in quality between 1080i and 1080p isn't going to be noticed by many. They typical consumer can't tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p unless a static image is displayed. Most of the current TVs that claim 1080p can't accept HDMI and must upscale a lower resolution to 1080p.

As an example...DirecTV doesn't broadcast true HDTV. It's unaffectionately called HD-Lite by AV Geeks. Instead of 1920x1080 DirecTV transmits at 1280x1080. 99% of the population doesn't have a clue but on the AV forums, people are up in arms about it.

While the leap in quality from Nintendo Wii type graphics and SD graphics to HD 720p/1080i is huge and noticable, the difference between 1080i and 1080p might not be detectable to 9 out of 10 people even if told to watch two streams and pick which is which with perfect signals (which many won't get..even the DLP TVs that claim 1080p are using mirrors that have a native resolution of 960x1080 and use a techinique called "wobbulation" to create 1080p from two sets of 960 lines.

Bottom line is don't get too excited about 1080p as most won't see the difference anyway and most wont be getting true 1080p from their TVs even from those that say they are 1080p.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » May 14, 2006, 12:04 pm

The lack of HD on the Wii is going to keep me away from it, and I imagine most others outside of fanboi's.

I never owned a Nintendo 64 or a Game Cube. Super Nintendo was the last console of theirs that I owned. My last 3 systems have been PS, PS2, and X-Box.

I will be getting a Wii this time around for the reasons I cited earlier in this thread. I believe that I am by far a fanboi..

The bottom line is that Micsrosoft wants to give us a computer and Sony wants us to have an entertainment center. Both companies have other agendas that promote the various other aspects of their corporations. Nintendo is simply giving us something for gaming. That's all I want and that's all I'll pay for.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 14, 2006, 12:18 pm

Fairweather Pure wrote: The bottom line is that Micsrosoft wants to give us a computer and Sony wants us to have an entertainment center. Both companies have other agendas that promote the various other aspects of their corporations. Nintendo is simply giving us something for gaming. That's all I want and that's all I'll pay for.

There's nothing wrong with that. Besides the HD graphics issues, the Wii is probably the best stand alone console for "classic" type console gaming albeit with a new unput device.

I'm not a Zelda, Metroid or Super Mario fan so the Nintendo game line doesn't do it for me. The controller is unique though, if nothing else, and anything that pushes innovation is a good thing.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » May 14, 2006, 2:32 pm

Sumdaor wrote:I would wager that more households with hd tv's are going to purchase next gen's consoles vs standard tv households. Its that thing called disposable income.

Disposable income has nothing to do with it. I'd just rather dispose of my income among other venues.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » May 15, 2006, 1:54 am

Winnow i agree with your analysis about hte difference between 1080i and 1080p

and it actually proves my point.

For 99% of the market, 1080i is fine, and so is the $500 PS3.

For the 1% who does give a shit about 1080p AND has the gear to execute on it, $100 for the functionality is trivial.

Bottom line is that Wii was the hit of E3 no matter how you slice it.

People waited 5 hours just to get inside the Nintendo space and then you had to wait longer to play the games. There was no wait at times to play the PS3.

2009 is really when Nintendo will have to have a 720p device. Because that is when ATSC becomes broadcast standard.

Syenye · Post by **Syenye** » May 15, 2006, 12:20 pm

the wii experience IS about the games. it completely changes the experience. yeah it sounds cheesy and trite and fagtastic, but it's true. nintendo is innovating and they aren't doing it by throwing crazy expensive tech into their systems. innovation through changing gameplay is key. the ps3 is so expensive to develop for that it pretty much locks out the small time devs. a dev kit for the wii costs under $2k, which is totally reasonable.

the thing is that the wii does look good. it doesn't look as good as the 1080i games, but who the fuck cares? the 360 games look good but if the gameplay isn't innovative and fun, then it's not worth it.

Syenye · Post by **Syenye** » May 15, 2006, 12:58 pm

i asked one of the red octane devs if they'd be sticking with playstation for next-gen, and he asked if i had a 360. when i replied affirmatively, he said 'well then you should be okay.'

guitar hero is the only reason i own a ps2.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » May 15, 2006, 2:03 pm

The bottom line is that Micsrosoft wants to give us a computer and Sony wants us to have an entertainment center. Both companies have other agendas that promote the various other aspects of their corporations. Nintendo is simply giving us something for gaming. That's all I want and that's all I'll pay for.

This point is among the best made on this thread.
The vast bullk of mainstream buyers just want a little box to play games. If it plugs into a standard TV, all the better.
Poeple that read and post here are very, very far removed from the mainstream.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » May 15, 2006, 3:28 pm

Aslanna wrote:
Sumdaor wrote:I would wager that more households with hd tv's are going to purchase next gen's consoles vs standard tv households. Its that thing called disposable income.
Disposable income has nothing to do with it. I'd just rather dispose of my income among other venues.

you are fucking retarded. disposable income has almost everything to do with it. if you can't afford an hdtv then there is no need to get a next gen system (and in a lot of cases no income to do so anyways). just because YOU would rather dispose of it among other venues has fuckall to do with everyone else.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » May 15, 2006, 5:13 pm

As a sidenote to the console e-peen jousting. Anyone else thing the Gears of War demo MS was playing at the beginning of their promo was good? This was the first time I'd seen this game in action and I wanted to buy it then and there.

Tycho and Gabe are giving it they're unofficial "Game of the Show" nod in today's blog.

Tycho wrote: I knew the moment that I gripped the controller for Gears of War that I was in front of the game of the show. Nothing obscures that information. Gears is really at a "Halo" level of platform definition, and when your hands close around the gamepad on "emergence day," please remember I said so.

Gabe wrote: Gears of War – This was the best looking, most fun game I played at the show. I got to sit down and play a bunch of rounds and it was fucking great.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » May 15, 2006, 6:52 pm

Zamtuk wrote:
Aslanna wrote: Disposable income has nothing to do with it. I'd just rather dispose of my income among other venues.
you are fucking retarded. disposable income has almost everything to do with it. if you can't afford an hdtv then there is no need to get a next gen system (and in a lot of cases no income to do so anyways). just because YOU would rather dispose of it among other venues has fuckall to do with everyone else.

Maybe I was speaking for myself. I don't see a declaration anywhere that I was speaking for the entire worldwide electronics market.

I also don't believe your point is necessarily true.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » May 15, 2006, 10:28 pm

vn_Tanc wrote:This point is among the best made on this thread.
The vast bullk of mainstream buyers just want a little box to play games. If it plugs into a standard TV, all the better.
Poeple that read and post here are very, very far removed from the mainstream.

the xbox 360 and ps3 plug into a standard tv as well. xbox 360 premium is still selling out at $400.

people will pay more money to play the console that has the best games. every time nintendo has launched a new machine post snes they have promised big and delivered little. a lot of key third parties still distrust working with them. they will fail this generation as well because they haven't offered anything that you couldn't get last year other than a gimmicky controller that people will get bored with. their first party games are still decent but hardly have the kind of clout they used to have. third parties that are making launch titles for the machine now will probably not make followups, just like n64 and gamecube. that is if they don't scrap development altogether or announce simultaeneous launches with other consoles. a lot of 3rd parties are already pissed off at nintendo springing this controller on them when they were halfway through development on their revolution game, where other companies like Ubi got early access to the information and hardware to build their game around the concept - typical nintendo picking and choosing their favorites.

sony and microsoft view their machines as little revenue generators now. by next generation most people will have broadband access and hdtv, and making people pay money to consume content from their respective companies is a major way they are looking at subsidizing (and profiteer) massive r&d and production costs. I personally could give less of a crap about anything that doesn't enhance my gaming experience. most people will agree with that. so it all comes down to how they implement everything and what kind of benefits we get out of it.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » May 16, 2006, 10:45 am

a lot of key third parties still distrust working with them. they will fail this generation as well because they haven't offered anything that you couldn't get last year other than a gimmicky controller that people will get bored with. their first party games are still decent but hardly have the kind of clout they used to have

The DS has done Nintendo a lot of favours. A great many developers and publishers are re-entering the fold via this route. E3 will have woken even more up - a machine can't generate the kind of buzz it has without attracting attention.
Some of the biggest selling games of recent times have used non-standard control methods: Buzz, Guitar Hero, Singstar. Don't write off "gimmicky controllers" too soon.

a lot of 3rd parties are already pissed off at nintendo springing this controller on them when they were halfway through development on their revolution game, where other companies like Ubi got early access to the information and hardware to build their game around the concept - typical nintendo picking and choosing their favorites

Dunno where you're getting this info but it's not true in the slightest. Another big plus for 3rd parties is that the Rev/Wii is blindingly simple to code for which means much more affordable development cycles.

by next generation most people will have broadband access and hdtv, and making people pay money to consume content from their respective companies is a major way they are looking at subsidizing (and profiteer) massive r&d and production costs. I personally could give less of a crap about anything that doesn't enhance my gaming experience. most people will agree with that. so it all comes down to how they implement everything and what kind of benefits we get out of it

Yeah and all the machines are broadband capable. Not supporting HDTV on this generation isn't a huge deal as the market penetration of HDTV isn't significant enough. It's nice gravy but its not vital.

Anyway I'm not claiming Nintendo will come out swinging and conquer the world but I expect them to perform better this time around than with the Cube. Nintendo stronger, Sony weaker, MS starting well but fading as the machine runs out of gas - that's my take on things.

Edit: and back to the point about cost/simplicity: Little Johny's mom didn't mind stretching another $100 past the GameCube so her boy could have the same machine as everyne else. I'm betting she won't stretch to $400.

Syenye · Post by **Syenye** » May 16, 2006, 12:06 pm

kyoukan wrote:they will fail this generation as well because they haven't offered anything that you couldn't get last year other than a gimmicky controller that people will get bored with.

with both microsoft and sony touting the wii as a great companion console to their own, i am sure nintendo will have no problems. i was skeptical of the remote because i wasn't sure how they would pull it off, but after having played with it, it's very slick. the subtlety that the controller can detect is more than i expected... in the tennis game, you can slice the ball or volley etc.

and for a gimmicky controller, sony sure seems to think it's a good idea: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060515-6834.html

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » May 16, 2006, 2:13 pm

i think Nintendo has some content that is certainly compelling to some segment of the gaming market, regardless of how 'high end' the graphics are.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » May 16, 2006, 8:35 pm

vn_Tanc wrote: Dunno where you're getting this info but it's not true in the slightest.

Uhh, I'm getting it from a lot of developers that are bitching about it. For example. The first words out of the mouth of the producer of the last couple of console Castlevanias was to the effect of "Gee thanks for telling us" since they were designing their game around a standard controller.

Nintendo has always had a reputation of selecting a few developers that has pleased them the most recently and treating them differently and giving them better deals for arbitrary reasons. It is the primary reason Sony and Sega took so much of their capital away; developers would rather make deals with companies they don't despise. Things are different now that Yamauchi is gone and it isn't nearly as bad, but it is still there.

Edit: and back to the point about cost/simplicity: Little Johny's mom didn't mind stretching another $100 past the GameCube so her boy could have the same machine as everyne else. I'm betting she won't stretch to $400.

Then it is a good thing that kids that can't pay for their own consoles aren't Sony or Microsoft's primary demographic. The game industry is primarily adult now in terms of who spends the most money per unit. Kids tend to buy very few games and play the christ out of them and rent a lot. Adults tend to purchase a lot more titles per machine sold and tend to purchase anything they intend to play. I'm a little surprised that you'd say something like this, thinking that Sony isn't cognizant of who they are trying to sell the PS3 to. It certainly isn't kids.

The important part is to get an installed base in their primary demographic, get the best 3rd parties lined up with games that people want to play, and then focus on lowering the price and streamline production and manufacturing.

However I am sure Johnny will have fun spazzing around with his gimmick controller and playing mario and pikachu games. the wii controller will look nice next to my virtual boy, power glove and rob the video game robot, and the stupid gimmicky touch screen on my DS.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » May 17, 2006, 5:39 am

Uhh, I'm getting it from a lot of developers that are bitching about it. For example. The first words out of the mouth of the producer of the last couple of console Castlevanias was to the effect of "Gee thanks for telling us" since they were designing their game around a standard controller.

The basic "development hardware" for the Wii that is currently in use by most teams is a version of the controller that works with GameCube dev kits. It's the first thing you get sent when working on the Wii. Nobody, ever, was sent the actual silicon with no mention of the controller. The controller came first. Castlevania guy sounds like he's just bitching for the sake of it.

Nintendo has always had a reputation of selecting a few developers that has pleased them the most recently and treating them differently and giving them better deals for arbitrary reasons

In this respect they are i-fucking-dentical to Sony and MS then. Except that if you please Sony you have as much chance of getting fucked in the arse as being given preferential treatment. Not that I speak from bitter experience or anything.

The important part is to get an installed base in their primary demographic, get the best 3rd parties lined up with games that people want to play, and then focus on lowering the price and streamline production and manufacturing.

Yeah and Sony are looking in poor shape right now relative to their own high standards. Everyone I know who was at E3 is buying a Wii whether they were or not before they went. They also said the PS3 lineup was unimpressive - no killer app, just a lot of formulaic crap. If Ridge Racer 7 is the best they have to offer that can't be good. If E3 was a race between the manufacturers Sony came in 3rd.
I think the PS3 is overfeatured and overpriced and Sony's market share will suffer for it. Per-unit manufacturing costs of blu-ray titles are another problem for publishers, and I'm not convinced the mass market is thirsting for blu-ray players like Sony think.

Edit: Typo

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » May 17, 2006, 5:26 pm

Sony's E3 press conference in 60 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJElsNaC ... conference

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » May 17, 2006, 9:27 pm

yea well, fuck the whole lot of you!!

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » May 17, 2006, 11:57 pm

RIIIDGE RACER!

C'mon, that's fucking funny, I don't care who you are...

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » November 13, 2009, 7:21 pm

Winnow wrote:News from Square Enix. Those bastards are making Final Fantasy XIII for the PS3 so I might have to buy one. It sounds like the contract isn't exclusie though and Square Enix has something else in the works for the Xbox 360:

Square Enix also said it is developing its "Final Fantasy XIII" for PS3, which will be launched on November 11 in Japan and on November 17 in most of the rest of the world.

That quote is from May 2006!

Today they finally announced the launch date of March 9, 2010 for FFXIII

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » November 15, 2009, 7:40 am

I am so fucking excited for FFXIII, I can barely stand it!

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » November 15, 2009, 1:00 pm

Fairweather Pure wrote:I will be getting a Wii this time around for the reasons I cited earlier in this thread. I believe that I am by far a fanboi.

Quoting myself. Goddamn, I was really playing a lot of Warcraft at the time. I honestly don't even remember a time when the Wii was ever on my radar.

VeeshanVault

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