You know you have a problem with teh chronic when...

noel · Post by **noel** » April 26, 2006, 9:32 am

espn.com wrote:But even if he were to be reinstated in 2007, Williams would return as a 30-year-old running back who had appeared in just 12 games in three years. Life is difficult enough for a running back in the NFL once he turns 30. It would be especially difficult for Williams, given the rust he would have accumulated. And there are no guarantees that he will want to resume his career when eligible for reinstatement.

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » April 26, 2006, 10:40 am

wasn't pot

noel · Post by **noel** » April 26, 2006, 10:50 am

It was the first few times... He wouldn't be in this situation if it wasn't for the pot.

Withefel · Post by **Withefel** » April 26, 2006, 11:26 am

Wasn't pot this time? What was it then?

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » April 26, 2006, 7:38 pm

Sad. Ricky Williams is a man who worked his ass off to turn his life around. He worked to overcome his drug issues, he worked to get back in shape after missing a year, he worked to be a man and take responsibility for his failings, he worked to regain the respect of his teammates, he worked to gain the respect of his new coach. He worked hard enough that he accomplished all of these things, performed better than expected on the field, and NEVER ONCE complained or expressed any frustration for the media to start a shitstorm over. And he was drug tested something like 10 times a month before failing a test for some bullshit herbal remedy crap.

This man deserves praise for actually being a fucking man, taking responsibility for himself, and demonstrating the strength of will to fix his fucking problems. And the only thing anyone has to say boils down to "NEENER NEENER SHOULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN HIGH."

Sad.

"You know you have a problem with teh chronic when..." when what? When you FUCKING QUIT? Sounds to me like you OVERCOME a problem when you do that.

noel · Post by **noel** » April 26, 2006, 8:48 pm

Wtf? This is his FOURTH strike man... he'd not be in this position if he hadn't had THREE other chances... Jesus. Cry me a fucking river.

Edit: I'm all for people getting clean. I'm all for them doing all the wonderful things you said above. HOWEVER, I have ZERO sympathy for an X Million dollar a year athlete that after the SECOND positive test and suspension doesn't put his X million dollar a year career and talent over his desire to hit the pipe.

Sabek · Post by **Sabek** » April 26, 2006, 9:16 pm

Sounds like Sueven had him in his keeper fantasy league.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » April 26, 2006, 9:58 pm

noel wrote:Wtf? This is his FOURTH strike man... he'd not be in this position if he hadn't had THREE other chances... Jesus. Cry me a fucking river.

Edit: I'm all for people getting clean. I'm all for them doing all the wonderful things you said above. HOWEVER, I have ZERO sympathy for an X Million dollar a year athlete that after the SECOND positive test and suspension doesn't put his X million dollar a year career and talent over his desire to hit the pipe.

Yup. All he needed to do was put his hippie druggie life on hold for a few more years, make the milliosn he needs to pay back the Dolphins the 8 mil he owes them and then make some millions for him, retire and then resume being a rich loser. I have no sympathy at all for him. He got his second chance and he blew it.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » April 26, 2006, 11:27 pm

How many times have you fucked up in your life? Is it more than one?

What's more important: The person that someone was ten years ago, or the person that someone is now?

Would you say that one of the most important things a person can do in their life is continue to strive to improve regardless of what happens?

We're not trying to nominate the fucking pope here. We're talking about football. The man proved that he has more character than half the NFL, let him use his talents.

Basically, what happened was that Ricky decided that he wanted to play football. He said 'those who run football, tell me what I have to do in order to be allowed to play football again.' They said 'never smoke weed again, take an inordinate number of drug tests, and sit out four games.' He did that. He said 'Miami Dolphins, tell me what i need to do in order to start earning back the respect that I lost." They told him to work his ass off, play for the minimum, apologize to his teammates and so on. He did that. A man can't do more than what he can do. He was told what he had to do and he did it.

It's tragic that a troubled guy who is working hard to resolve his troubles is so harshly punished for a meaningless accident.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » April 26, 2006, 11:55 pm

His medical issues went beyond the drug use. He had to get his mind right before going back, and unfortunately people seem to think that only has to do with drugs.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » April 27, 2006, 1:17 am

Sueven wrote:
We're not trying to nominate the fucking pope here. We're talking about football. The man proved that he has more character than half the NFL, let him use his talents.

He broke the rules. Why do you find it so hard for someone to pay for their crime. He had options and he choose the wrong ones. He even had second and third chances to stop chosing the wrong options and has continued fuckign up. How long do you let someone break the rules before the rules don't mean anything anymore?

noel · Post by **noel** » April 27, 2006, 1:41 am

Sueven wrote:How many times have you fucked up in your life? Is it more than one?

What's more important: The person that someone was ten years ago, or the person that someone is now?

Would you say that one of the most important things a person can do in their life is continue to strive to improve regardless of what happens?

We're not trying to nominate the fucking pope here. We're talking about football. The man proved that he has more character than half the NFL, let him use his talents.

Basically, what happened was that Ricky decided that he wanted to play football. He said 'those who run football, tell me what I have to do in order to be allowed to play football again.' They said 'never smoke weed again, take an inordinate number of drug tests, and sit out four games.' He did that. He said 'Miami Dolphins, tell me what i need to do in order to start earning back the respect that I lost." They told him to work his ass off, play for the minimum, apologize to his teammates and so on. He did that. A man can't do more than what he can do. He was told what he had to do and he did it.

It's tragic that a troubled guy who is working hard to resolve his troubles is so harshly punished for a meaningless accident.

Look, I don't want to personalize it, but I just need to agree that we disagree on this. The NFL drug policy is well known. That's why people use bullshit like the wizzinator (one of the Vikings last year I think) to get around it. Those guys are so privledged... on levels that a lot of us will never know. If they can't meet the requirements of their contract with the league... (it's not like they're asking them to go kill babies) I'm sorry, but I can't agree with you. If he thought he had a problem, he should have addressed it the first time, or the second time.

If he's as great a person as you say (I don't know him personally so I'll take your word) then it's a sad story, but I only feel sorry that he didn't figure it out sooner. I don't feel sorry that he's having to suffer the consequences of his actions.

I wish I could find some common ground with you here because I respect your opinions, but on this issue, I feel like someone was given enough chances to do the right thing, and they knew what the consequences were so I can't feel bad that he's dealing with them now.

Sorry.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » April 27, 2006, 3:19 am

noel wrote:I wish I could find some common ground with you here because I respect your opinions, but on this issue, I feel like someone was given enough chances to do the right thing, and they knew what the consequences were so I can't feel bad that he's dealing with them now.

Sorry.

This is where I *think* his medical issues came into play. They were mental health issues, and an addictive personality on top of that did not help him. We were both on similar medications when he was still in Austin. I don't know what he tested positive for this time, and I am only saying that there was a whole lot more to him and his situation than just the drug use.

*edit* no, I am not saying we are/were buddy-buddy when he was here or now. I had the opportunity to hang out with him on several occasions at the apartment of mutual friends. This is where the ex in my avatar comes into the story!

Sabek · Post by **Sabek** » April 27, 2006, 8:00 am

ESPN was saying the defense for Ricky Williams in the appeal tried to use the fact that it was positive for amphetamines and not marijauna. They say it's an herb Ricky was taking.
However the league evidently tested the herb several times and never got a positive from it.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » April 27, 2006, 9:08 am

Boogahz wrote:This is where the ex in my avatar comes into the story!

>still wants to see the rest of her

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » May 1, 2006, 5:13 pm

I think some people really to look at NFL players in general before thinking they're privileged and spoiled. Sure, not all of them are the sharpest tools in the shed, but they can have existing contracts dropped or lowered due to injuries. And the average football players doesn't exactly have an extensive career. I'm also pretty sure I read somewhere that the average age of mortality is really low for an NFL player, somewhere in the 50's if I remember correctly. They have to earn what they can in a short period of time while praying they don't get injured. Contractually speaking, an NFL career is really pretty precarious.

As far as this decision goes, I'd really need for info because I can see why people would agree and disagree with the outcome.

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » May 1, 2006, 5:42 pm

Drug policies = comical

Do you really give a fuck? Does anyone give 2 shits that LT was coked out of his mind when he was tearing the heads off quarterbacks... does anyone care that they all were juicing for decades... does anyone care most of these kids have finished their HGH treatment LONG BEFORE they get in the NFL, but they can continue because you can't test for it? who give a rats ass really

noel · Post by **noel** » May 1, 2006, 5:56 pm

I know you're a Barry Bonds apologist, so I'm not really surprised to see you taking that stance. Coming from a cycling background, I've heard that argument for years. It all comes down to how you look at it. If you think the players in your sport of choice are just gladiators for your entertainment, then yeah I guess it doesn't matter what they do or what they're on. Let them eat babies if that's what makes them rush for an additional couple of yards a carry, right? Fuck drawing the line anywhere, fuck the health of these idiots. Who cares if they drop dead on the field. All we care about is the here and now and the excitement of the moment.

If however, you want to watch a sport where the athletes represent the best that humans can achieve within their chosen sport then why shouldn't the fans care about what they're putting into their bodies? Why shouldn't people care what kind of role-models they are for kids? Parents should parent, no doubt, but athletes are role-models whether they like it or not. Why shouldn't there be some integrity in records, integrity in sport, integrity in human achievement? Why shouldn't someone taking a shot at the record books have to be as good as someone who set the record 30 years ago without pharmeceutical aids?

To me, this is a different issue than the Ricky Williams issue entirely, and I'm firmly in the camp of those that don't want to see the integrity of sport polluted (as it has been for the last 25 years or so) by people with low integrity who think that drugs are a substitute for hard work and innate talent.

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » May 1, 2006, 9:10 pm

Talk to teenagers and ask them who their rolemodels are... sports figures are not the role models they were when I was a kid... you ask my son (and I have) or his friends what they think of athletes and they think of them as partier rockstar types but far from anyone they'd want to be like growing up. The constant barrage of rapes and arrests had tainter their view... or really just made it realistic. Drugs have been in sports since coca cola was the official soft drink of MLB... back when it had cocaine in it, since uppers were first used in college football (circa WWI), since... well since the gladiators you mentioned. As far as being a Bonds apologist, my stance on drugs in sports has more to do with my not giving a fuck if he did or didn't do them, I don't care... yours as an Armstrong apologist denies an awful lot of evidence (circumstantial) against him and just goes with the never tested positive... neither has Bonds, but guess what, they were probably both juiced... and that is not going to change my day, nor my view when I kick back to watch them play/ride.

noel · Post by **noel** » May 2, 2006, 1:12 am

Pherr the Dorf wrote:Talk to teenagers and ask them who their rolemodels are... sports figures are not the role models they were when I was a kid... you ask my son (and I have) or his friends what they think of athletes and they think of them as partier rockstar types but far from anyone they'd want to be like growing up. The constant barrage of rapes and arrests had tainter their view... or really just made it realistic. Drugs have been in sports since coca cola was the official soft drink of MLB... back when it had cocaine in it, since uppers were first used in college football (circa WWI), since... well since the gladiators you mentioned. As far as being a Bonds apologist, my stance on drugs in sports has more to do with my not giving a fuck if he did or didn't do them, I don't care... yours as an Armstrong apologist denies an awful lot of evidence (circumstantial) against him and just goes with the never tested positive... neither has Bonds, but guess what, they were probably both juiced... and that is not going to change my day, nor my view when I kick back to watch them play/ride.

For the record, I've clearly maintained that if there ever had been evidence during his time cycling that he was doping, I wouldn't have been surprised. The level of scrutiny that Armstrong was under when he was actively cycling makes what's happening to Barry Bonds right now look like a walk in the park.

Very frankly, there was never anything credible enough during the time he was riding to convince me one way or another. To each his own I guess.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » May 2, 2006, 1:37 am

So could you say Ricky was a Chronic underachiever? (sorry someone had to use that one, it was sitting right there)

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » May 2, 2006, 9:01 am

I like Ricky. However I don't know the whole story so I can't comment on his problems. But I do like Ricky.

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » May 2, 2006, 11:02 pm

noel wrote: For the record, I've clearly maintained that if there ever had been evidence during his time cycling that he was doping, I wouldn't have been surprised. The level of scrutiny that Armstrong was under when he was actively cycling makes what's happening to Barry Bonds right now look like a walk in the park.

French press > federal grand jury

noel · Post by **noel** » May 2, 2006, 11:07 pm

You have no idea what you're talking about on any level. The french press was the least of it. If you think I'm stupid enough to compare a federal grand jury to the french press, you really don't know me that well.

Edit: I hesitated to even post the rest of this because I'm not sure I could even begin to list the number of organizations that have looked into the possibility of Armstrong doping. During the time he was cycling, the USCF (United States Cycling Federation) was allowed to show up at his house at any time to test him.

After the 2000 Tour de France, the entire team was investigated for seven months by the French Sport Ministry, French Police and UCI for the possibility of doping.

During the 2005 Tour de France, the French Youth Sports Ministry performed a random drug test on Lance in addition to the tests already being performed.

Lance has been investigated and tested by virtually every wing of the French Government that could get a shot at him, WADA, the UCI, the British Press, the French Press, his urine samples, were dug out of ice from '99 illegally identified (information that was supposed to be kept confidential), and retested by a laboratory that had extremely suspect methods that were refuted by toxicologists all over the world including the lab that developed the test that was used (located in Canada). He's already had a 'Game of Shadows' book written about him. Unlike Bonds who is suing because the authors (allegedly) illegally got information from the grand jury, Armstrong's reaction to anyone and everyone who's ever accused him of doping has been to sue them for Libel and/or defamation of character (i.e. instead of refuting it, he called them out and went after them). With all the people looking, there's NEVER been an admission, or anything other than the most circumstantial evidence.

Finally, unlike MLB or other sports where drug testing, and the punishment associated with it is a FUCKING JOKE where the leagues have consistently looked the other way, cycling has been locked down tight for over 15 years now, including the '98 tour de france when whole teams were kicked out of the tour and suspended for 1 year for doping. There is nothing in the US even remotely like the level of scrutiny that cycling is under, and for Lance with his success it was several orders of magnitude greater after he repeatedly DESTROYED the French at their own game.

The irony of it all is that while the French government/sports governing bodies don't like him at all, the French people actually like him a lot. I like your posts, I value your opinions, but on this particular subject you have no clue how wrong you are.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » May 2, 2006, 11:32 pm

Pherr the Dorf wrote:
noel wrote: For the record, I've clearly maintained that if there ever had been evidence during his time cycling that he was doping, I wouldn't have been surprised. The level of scrutiny that Armstrong was under when he was actively cycling makes what's happening to Barry Bonds right now look like a walk in the park.

French press > federal grand jury

You can't be fucking serious. No I mean it...you're either trolling, or certifiably insane.

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » May 2, 2006, 11:44 pm

Truant wrote:
Pherr the Dorf wrote:
noel wrote: For the record, I've clearly maintained that if there ever had been evidence during his time cycling that he was doping, I wouldn't have been surprised. The level of scrutiny that Armstrong was under when he was actively cycling makes what's happening to Barry Bonds right now look like a walk in the park.

French press > federal grand jury
You can't be fucking serious. No I mean it...you're either trolling, or certifiably insane.

shhhh I like his long posts