WTF Let's Throw a Civil War Into the Mix...

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » February 23, 2006, 5:42 am

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&c ... 0223080058

So what happens when there is a power vacuum in Iraq?...We have so got our balls in a ringer...The shit is about to give the fan a miss and head straight for the turbine...The fatwahs are flying fast and furious...

Siji · Post by **Siji** » February 23, 2006, 11:05 am

holiest Shiite shrines

The holy shit shrine.. didn't know they had those!

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » February 23, 2006, 11:16 am

um...this is a shocker how? Civil war was brought up while the troops were still headed in.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » February 23, 2006, 11:33 am

Well actually it's a pretty dramatic turn of events.

Sumdaor · Post by **Sumdaor** » February 23, 2006, 11:35 am

Well actually it's a pretty dramatic turn of events.

Yes it is. The shit just hit the fan. If we could ever control the situation over there, we sure as hell can't now.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » February 23, 2006, 12:02 pm

I agree Nick. The thing is, we pretty much knew that it would happen unless things were made stable very quickly.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » February 23, 2006, 1:00 pm

It's gonna be a lot harder differentiating the insurgents from warring civilians now.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 23, 2006, 1:00 pm

Wasn't the goal to get them to kill each other? This does create a problem though as we'll never get the Iran-Iraq war cranked up again at this rate.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » February 23, 2006, 1:29 pm

Which would have been already next to impossible with a Shia led Government anyway.

miir · Post by **miir** » February 23, 2006, 1:57 pm

miir, on September 17 2004 wrote:Saddam may have been a terrible dictator but I suspect his ruthlessness was the only thing preventing that powderkeg from blowing up into a full blown civil war.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » February 23, 2006, 2:00 pm

miir wrote:
miir, on September 17 2004 wrote:Saddam may have been a terrible dictator but I suspect his ruthlessness was the only thing preventing that powderkeg from blowing up into a full blown civil war.

Miirstradamus ?

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » February 23, 2006, 2:35 pm

After seeing a bunch of stuff on this all I can say is

The media sure knows how to spin shit

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » February 23, 2006, 2:57 pm

Cookie for Miir!!

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » February 23, 2006, 4:01 pm

What's so civil about war anyway?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 23, 2006, 4:12 pm

There's not much leisure time in Iraq right now!

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » February 23, 2006, 4:18 pm

They need to get some Second Life subscriptions.

Niffoni · Post by **Niffoni** » February 23, 2006, 6:26 pm

This thread needs more pictures!

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » February 23, 2006, 7:58 pm

Niccolo Machiavelli, writing 500 years ago, puts it to us bluntly: A leader, he says, "should care nothing for the accusation of cruelty so long as he keeps his subjects united and loyal; by making a very few examples he can be more truly merciful than those who through too much tender-heartedness allow disorders to arise whence come killings and rapine."

Certainly, not true in a homogenous society (if you can find one) but people have been pointing to Machiavellian theory to explain Hussein's control of Iraq's factions for a long time.

Other people have been pointing out since the US went in that they were not going to be able to create a western democracy out of a collection of middle eastern theocracies.

Perhaps you can promote the (Stargate-1) rebel Jaffa motto; "I die free".

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » February 23, 2006, 10:08 pm

all of us "lefties" were all saying this two and a half years ago while the retards were braying about forced-at-gunpoint democracy solving all of the middle east's problems.

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » February 24, 2006, 2:29 am

114 dead 2 days later

civil war my ass

media spin!

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » February 24, 2006, 3:31 am

Oh right, cause this will be the end of it

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » February 24, 2006, 8:24 am

114 dead 2 days later

civil war my ass

media spin!

Nobody's saying it is a civil war. A lot of people, including Iraqi govt. ministers, are saying it could be if things aren't handled correctly.

Keep singing yourself that lullaby, though.

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » February 24, 2006, 1:15 pm

Fear and loathing on the war campaign. OMG a cabinet minister said this might become a civil war... so we are ON THE BRINK OF A CIVIL WAR... Iraq is a shitstorm, and it will remain a shitstorm, there are signs pointing to a power struggle in the future (I'd bet on a military coup over a civil war any day) but this never had the powderkeg effect. Read Foucault, then watch the news

miir · Post by **miir** » February 24, 2006, 1:38 pm

Pherr the Dorf wrote: so we are ON THE BRINK OF A CIVIL WAR...

Who said that?

Nick · Post by **Nick** » February 24, 2006, 2:11 pm

Sorry what does Michael Foucault have to do with the fact that an increasingly violent Iraq is being pushed to the brink of chaos?

Sumdaor · Post by **Sumdaor** » February 24, 2006, 2:39 pm

Alex, phrases that contain the word "Brink" for 1000.

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » February 24, 2006, 3:10 pm

Nick I think you of all people would know what Foucault would have to do with what was being reported on the news, and precisely why you should not listen to the fear mongering.

As far as Civil war and who said it... gee who didn't say it?

The situation there is far to fractured to be a good civil war, it's ripe for a coup after the US leaves but that != a civil war either.

Sirton · Post by **Sirton** » February 24, 2006, 3:30 pm

Man ya people are praying for a Civil War so much it seems...just so you can say I told ya so!!!! We are right you are wrong!!

Funny thing is we always knew it could goto a civil war and I atleast always said it would be a long protracted engagement, but thats better than having Saddam H. in power and the impending threat the World Community said of WMDs transfering to terrorist(That we sold to him and he used in the past). Even with a Civil War----Were protecting our own, because while they are killing each other they arent thinking about or making WMDs to transfer to us---they are not advancing. But hell this isn't even close to a CIVIL WAR....

More people died in the United States during the same time and 8-11 churches have been burned down, a man in Phoenix took 9 hostages in a building in and didnt a bomb or something go off at a school or was it a gun shot(not sure) ect? I guess we are at a Civil War!! AHHHHHHH!!!!

Im actually surprised of the little amount of violence and death after what happened.....Actually gives me more hope on the situation....its far from over though.

miir · Post by **miir** » February 24, 2006, 3:49 pm

More people died in the United States during the same time and 8-11 churches have been burned down, a man in Phoenix took 9 hostages in a building in and didnt a bomb or something go off at a school or was it a gun shot(not sure) ect? I guess we are at a Civil War!! AHHHHHHH!!!!

Population:

USA - 300 million
Iraq - 26 Million

Sumdaor · Post by **Sumdaor** » February 24, 2006, 4:04 pm

Were protecting our own, because while they are killing each other they arent thinking about or making WMDs to transfer to us

Huh? NEWSFLASH! NO WMDs! Why are you talking about WMD's and all that snazzy jazz? I could see saying we went over there because we THOUGHT Sadam had WMDs.

I am sure a force occupying your country makes you complacent as a hindu cow towards the occupy power.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » February 24, 2006, 4:04 pm

and the impending threat the World Community said of WMDs transfering to terrorist(That we sold to him and he used in the past). Even with a Civil War blah blah kill the towel heads....

Please show me where the WMD's are.

Please show me where Saddam ever had any support for Al'Quaida.

Sirton · Post by **Sirton** » February 25, 2006, 2:31 am

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48827

http://www.nysun.com/article/26514

http://globalpolitician.com/articledes. ... d=2&sid=38

Then you look at the history...The world community said they thought he had them...the UN, england, us, france, russia for starters...we sold them to him...Then he used them on his own and Iran..then 12 years of UN resolutions.

Even with Civil War you will never be able to point to me as its a failure for atleast another 20years. It all depends on what eventually happens.

The failure one can point out is the world community and the united States were never able to account for the WMDs he had and now no one really knows forsure were they are and can be used in other hands in the future without being able to track em down.

Now the post is about Civil War in iraq.......I want to see the Civil war.

Population:

USA - 300 million
Iraq - 26 Million

http://www.benbest.com/lifeext/murder.html
thats 8.8 per 100,000
88 per millionx300=26,400 murders/yr
thats 26,400/356=74 murders/day

so take in Iraq 26 million the US 300 million
lets say 25 into 300million=12xless
normally they should have about 6-7/day, but they are in a hostile situation no doubt.

I dont think 100 for 2 days sustains the title= Civil War!

now if for a month they had 1000 die a day then you would have a point and also you have a point that its a fragile situation atm that can bloom into Civil War, but that doesnt=Civil War.

Wonko Wenusberg · Post by **Wonko Wenusberg** » February 25, 2006, 3:39 pm

If it's not mentioned. Iraq's population is heavily clan-based, and society's structure is completely different from our societies. So, there's more people looking for power and in brutal ways to gain it.
Imho Hussein had that under control, but in an inhumane way. Now the tricky part is to create a stable sovereign state with humane methods.
Good Luck!

Nick · Post by **Nick** » February 26, 2006, 7:50 am

Edit: Couldn't be fucked replying to retards this early in the morning but yeah if I ever need to speak to a moron for whatever reason I'll look you up sometime Sirton.

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » February 26, 2006, 12:02 pm

Nick wrote:Edit: Couldn't be fucked replying to retards this early in the morning but yeah if I ever need to speak to a moron for whatever reason I'll look you up sometime Sirton.

I think Sirton is making a valid point.

This quote is from someone in Iraq who would have the Intelligence resources to get an accurate picture of the events unfolding there:

Major General Rick Lynch, spokesman for Multi-National Forces-Iraq: So we're not seeing civil war igniting in Iraq. We're not seeing 77, 80, 100 mosques damaged. We're not seeing death in the streets. We're seeing a confident, capable Iraqi government using their capable Iraqi security force to calm the storm that was inflamed by a horrendous, horrific terrorist attack yesterday against the Golden Mosque in Samarra.

http://www.mudvillegazette.com/archives/004214.html

Are you supposed to believe hysterical reporters who haven't budged from their posh hotel in the green zone in months?

Sirton's prose could use some help but his ability to discern truth and maintain perspective is doing fine thank you.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » February 26, 2006, 2:25 pm

His perspective on WMDs is a bit dodgy.

Also, I don't think anyone actually said there was a civil war happening....making most of his points moot.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » February 26, 2006, 4:09 pm

Man ya people are praying for a Civil War so much it seems...just so you can say I told ya so!!!! We are right you are wrong!!

Why would we need another topic to add to the list? If the first major "I told you so's" didn't make you blink, why would this one have any greater impact?

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » February 28, 2006, 10:05 pm

What exactly are the criteria for a Civil War? 68 more dead today based on sectarian religious fighting...like with mortars and RPGs..

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » March 1, 2006, 1:08 pm

I thought it was like Stephen Colbert said and the US actually WANTs a civil because its an instant exit strategy, since by definition you're not supposed to be involved...