Rumsfeld Says Troops in Iraq to Be Cut

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Rumsfeld Says Troops in Iraq to Be Cut

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Rumsfeld Says Troops in Iraq to Be Cut

Friday, December 23, 2005



FALLUJAH, Iraq — Just days after Iraq's elections, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld on Friday announced the first of what is likely to be a series of U.S. combat troop drawdowns in Iraq in 2006.

Rumsfeld, addressing U.S. troops at this former insurgent stronghold, said President Bush has authorized new cuts below the 138,000 level that has prevailed for most of this year.

Rumsfeld did not reveal the exact size of the troop cut, but Pentagon officials have said it could be as much as 7,000 combat troops. The Pentagon has not announced a timetable for troop reductions, but indications are that the force could be cut significantly by the end of 2006.

That could include substantial reductions well before the November midterm congressional elections, in which Bush's war policies seem certain to be a major issue.

Rumsfeld said two Army brigades that had been scheduled for combat tours — one from Fort Riley, Kan., the other now in Kuwait — would no longer deploy to Iraq. That would reduce the number of combat brigades in Iraq from 17 to 15.

"The effect of these adjustments will reduce forces in Iraq by the spring of 2006 below the current high of 160,000 during the (Iraqi) election period to below the 138,000 baseline that had existed before the most recent elections," the defense secretary said.

Rumsfeld aides said details were to be provided later at the Pentagon.

Further reductions will be considered "at some point in 2006," after the new Iraqi government is in place and is prepared to discuss the future U.S. military presence, Rumsfeld added.

The Pentagon sent an extra 20,000 troops to Iraq to bolster security during the recent elections, and Rumsfeld has previously said those 20,000 would be withdrawn in January to return U.S. force levels to a 138,000 baseline.

Friday's announcement marks the first time Rumsfeld has said troop levels will dip below that baseline.

Rumsfeld, who has said repeatedly that troop reductions depend on political progress in Iraq and improvements in Iraq's own security forces, was meeting with U.S. troops in several locations Friday. He arrived in the country Thursday for his 11th visit since the U.S.-led invasion in March 2003.

Bush is under growing pressure from the Republican-run Congress to cut U.S. forces in Iraq. The conflict's acceptance by American voters has plummeted as the war's toll has mounted to more than 2,100 U.S. war dead and 15,000 wounded.

Bush, Rumsfeld and other administration officials have said a withdrawal would begin when the U.S.-trained Iraqi security forces show sufficient signs of being able to defend the country against insurgents.

There were 159,000 U.S. troops in Iraq on Thursday.

Iraq on Oct. 15 held a constitutional referendum, and on Dec. 15 held elections for a full-term government.

For the first time since the insurgency took hold in Iraq in midsummer 2003, Rumsfeld was spending the night in the country. He previously had made Iraq day trips but spent the night in other countries in the region.

In Afghanistan earlier Thursday, military officials said they were progressing toward eliminating the Taliban resistance and Al Qaeda terrorists who continue sporadic violence against U.S. troops.

But some officers said the hostile forces were making gains by acquiring more advanced weaponry, such as armor-piercing munitions, and improving their training and organization.

Asked whether conditions in southern Afghanistan are more dangerous than earlier in the conflict, Capt. Matthew Harmon, commander of headquarters company, 1st Battalion, 3rd Special Forces Group, said in an interview, "That's a very fair assessment." Harmon is serving his fourth tour in Afghanistan.

Capt. Chris Sample said the 1st Battalion had engaged in 88 firefights in the past six months. That is more than in its three previous Afghanistan deployments combined, he said. There also has been a recent increase in vehicle-borne suicide bombers, he said.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,179579,00.html


YAY! What a wonderful Christmas gift to those troops and their families.
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Post by kyoukan »

That's great. Iraq is still a fucking mess with no stability or control because of the US. And now you're leaving.
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Post by cid »

Damned if we do, damned if we don't it seems.
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Post by miir »

cid wrote:Damned if we do, damned if we don't it seems.
Pretty much.
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Post by Animalor »

Actually, not damned if you had persued every available recourse before going in in the first place.

Then again, hindsight is 20/20 or so they say.
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Post by Dregor Thule »

Animalor wrote:Actually, not damned if you had persued every available recourse before going in in the first place.

Then again, hindsight is 20/20 or so they say.
That saying has been revised under the Bush regime.

"Hindsight is un-patriotic and subject to punishment without due process because it was found out about when the government was illegally spying on you."

A little more wordy. Doesn't quite roll off the tongue I think.
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Post by Hesten »

Why do they neet cut? I was pretty sure that the freedom fighters there was getting pretty good at cutting down the invading occupants already.
Ok, tasteless joke aside, im not sure if its a good idea if theyre cutting down on troops there or not. Its a huge mess down there, and i doubt that even the most optimistic Bush supporter see any end to this any time soon (ok, those that believe that they won the war back when Bush said it, that was what, 3 years ago?).
If they stay, theyll keep getting hurt by attacks, some warranted and some unwarranted (sorry, but if an iraq citizen wish to fight againts the invaders, i will call that warranted, but the persons coming from all over the world to support the fight are mostly only there to make trouble), but if they pull out, god only knows what gonna happen, but it wont be pretty.

Im happy for those troops thats finally get pulled out of this pointless slaughter though.
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Post by Cartalas »

Gratz to our brave lads comming home and thank you for making Iraq a better place.
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Post by Winnow »

We had to go in and get things set up and the utmost respect should be paid to American servicement and allies that lost their lives. As a bonus, we took over French financed oil fields. We can now save American lives at the cost of a few more Iraqi civilian deaths with mostly accurate missile and air strikes. It will be easier to wipe out from the air, concentrated, organized camps for Al Qaeda operative training if they develop.

God/Alla love'em, but we'd be stuck in Iraq for 100's of years if we waited around for them to understand the concept of democracy. We're not miracle workers! The primary reason for going into Iraq was securing our oil flow from the middle east and disrupting a major backer of terrorism and threat to the U.S. and it's allies.(England, Australia and Poland)

Any liberal whining should be focused exclusively on big oil/government corruption and you should hold outright fanatical demonstrations demanding major amounts of government resources be focused on finding alternative energy sources. Quit whining about global actions currently required to keep the West functioning.
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Post by noel »

The US or anyone will never be able to bring order to that area. It's retarded for anyone in Washinton DC to think that we can.

Even if you take away Israel, take away the US involvement and take away the oil, you have such a splintered society of religious/ethnic groups that are still arguing to the point of killing each other over who the true prophet of Allah was. Mohammed or his cousin (I think).

Someone remind me when the last time it was the US went into a country and cleaned house and everything turned out well. I'm seriously asking here...

Maybe Japan or Germany? Other than that, we suck ass at nation-building and should keep our perfect way of government/life to ourselves. We might think it's perfect and great and all, but lots of people all over the world would rather be oppressed than have democracy forced upon them.

Sorry for the rambling nature of this post.
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Post by Nick »

How can you say you aren't being oppressed when someone illegally comes into power and starts passing unbelievably intrusive secret and not so secret laws that blatantly oppress your freedoms and then turn around and say "but lots of people all over the world would rather be oppressed than have democracy forced upon them."

Unless of course you were being ironic.
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Post by Kylere »

The only good thing about oil being a not-that-renewable resource is that in 200 years that region will be left to build itself as it sees fit without British, French, German, Spanish, Dutch or American interests.

Of course all the colonizing states will have stripped it bare.
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Post by Pherr the Dorf »

So we are bringing home the troops that were scheduled to come home but were forced to stay an extra 6 months due to the elections and this is a troop reduction? Ohh I'm sorry we are bringing home an extra 7,000 TOPS in the next YEAR!!!!!!

We had 138k there, we are going to have 125k there in 12 months time, that is not a reduction worth mentioning, sorry, that is status quo with spin. Anyone who supports the troops and ate up the line of bullshit they spewed in the campaign (history repeats itself with Nixons secret plan to end the war) about bringing the troops home should be fucking OUTRAGED, they used you like a 2 bit whore and you are lapping up the cum off the floor and saying it's delicious.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

7,000 people is a lot to most normal people. It was only 2,000+ that died in the trade towers, yet it was a wordl tragedy. It is only a few dozen innocent people in prison, yet its a big fucking deal. @ canadians were killed by an errant missle fired by US pilots, yet it was a big deal. I've got a million more, but I think you get the point. Then again, you probably are incapable.
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Post by Sionistic »

It was about 4k that died in the trade towers, costed an estimated trillion dollars, and was the largest attack ever on USA. I think thats why I gained a bit more attention.
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Post by Pherr the Dorf »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:7,000 people is a lot to most normal people. It was only 2,000+ that died in the trade towers, yet it was a wordl tragedy. It is only a few dozen innocent people in prison, yet its a big fucking deal. @ canadians were killed by an errant missle fired by US pilots, yet it was a big deal. I've got a million more, but I think you get the point. Then again, you probably are incapable.
Get off your knees and wipe the cum off your chin..

A 5% reduction in 3 years is shit, it's an INSULT to the men and woman in uniform that were PROMISED reductions, your analogy to 9/11 is a weak and pathetic arguement, your other analogies made absolutely no sense so I won't even bother. What you don't get Mid is I DO support the troops over there, I want them home sooner then later and for this whole shitcan mess not to be for nothing, but the fact of the matter is a 5% reduction from pre election (both Iraqi and American[circa 2003]) levels is not enough for them, they have done far too much and have been stretched far too thin for far too motherfucking long, it's time they got what they were promised, they deserve it. Anything less then a 20% reduction in 12 months is going to cause our military to start to buckle.

Think back, history is a great teacher... when Russia was in Afganistan the goal was never to win per se, yet they broke the back of the Soviet Republic by keeping them there, stretching the manpower of the (at the time) 2nd largest army in the world to the breaking point until finally the Soviets withdrew... and not long after collapsed under the financial strain caused from years of an unnecessary war. Can't you see that is all this insurgency is trying to do?

They may say otherwise publically to feed themselves fresh recruits, but they have fought this war before... the last thing they want is for us to leave.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

What the fuck do you know? You know better than the Generals running this war, how many troops are needed and when? Fuck off dude. You are laughable.
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Post by Pherr the Dorf »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:What the fuck do you know? You know better than the Generals running this war, how many troops are needed and when? Fuck off dude. You are laughable.
WooWoo I been pwned!
great retort fucktard
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Pherr the Dorf wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:What the fuck do you know? You know better than the Generals running this war, how many troops are needed and when? Fuck off dude. You are laughable.
WooWoo I been pwned!
great retort fucktard
Going by your reply. Yes, you obviously were.
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Post by Pherr the Dorf »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Pherr the Dorf wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:What the fuck do you know? You know better than the Generals running this war, how many troops are needed and when? Fuck off dude. You are laughable.
WooWoo I been pwned!
great retort fucktard
Going by your reply. Yes, you obviously were.
You are off tonight Mid, you usually don't resort to Cartman "who are you, be a blind sheep" replies... must be the eggnog eh?

I posted a rather clear opinion of my views and backed it up with a little history lesson... you reply with "who are you, fuck off"... I expect more
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Post by Nick »

Yeah those American Generals really seem to have their shit together :roll:
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Post by noel »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:What the fuck do you know? You know better than the Generals running this war, how many troops are needed and when? Fuck off dude. You are laughable.
You think the Generals are running this war? You're the laughable one. The generals told Rumsfield and his assbuddy Wolfowitz that they needed more people back when the occupation started. Unfortunately, as with all wars, the Generals get to suggest how many troops should go, but the politics define how many troops go.

1) We shouldn't be there in this capacity in the first place.
2) If we had to go in, we should have gone in with the right amount of people. The amount of people that the Generals suggested in the first place.
3) We will never achieve the current objectives being sold to us by the Bush administration, there will never be a democratically elected Iraqi government that lasts more than 10 years. Check that... it might be 'democratically elected', but not in the true sense of the word.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Your stupid, "I know better than the people in charge", opinions are based off of what the media tells you. Off of what is represented to you. If you went on a tour of Iraq with the Military we have over there, you'd come back with a completely different view point and perspective.

As a person, beyond just this topic....here is a bit of life advice for you. Stop thinking you know better than everyone else. Stop assuming you know the true story. You only know the story being told to you. If you can accept the fact that you truly don't know, you will be left with making assumptions purely on logic and common sense, but always buffer them with, "but I could be wrong"...."it's just my opinion of what I think.....". Try and be a little less filled with vile, a little less of a destoyer of someone in words to lessen what that person is trying to say...you will have a much better life.

Just a little advice for you. Merry Christmas everyone. I hope you all get what you want from your loved ones and friends.
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Post by miir »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Your stupid, "I know better than the people in charge", opinions are based off of what the media tells you. Off of what is represented to you. If you went on a tour of Iraq with the Military we have over there, you'd come back with a completely different view point and perspective.

As a person, beyond just this topic....here is a bit of life advice for you. Stop thinking you know better than everyone else. Stop assuming you know the true story. You only know the story being told to you. If you can accept the fact that you truly don't know, you will be left with making assumptions purely on logic and common sense, but always buffer them with, "but I could be wrong"...."it's just my opinion of what I think.....". Try and be a little less filled with vile, a little less of a destoyer of someone in words to lessen what that person is trying to say...you will have a much better life.

Just a little advice for you. Merry Christmas everyone. I hope you all get what you want from your loved ones and friends.
So what you're saying is the government knows better than us, so we should just shut up and not question their decisions.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Nope. I'm just saying not to think you know better. Speak up, have an opinion, but be humble, because you really don't know. So many people on this board scream and rant and yell and label because it distracts from the fact that what they say has little to no definitive proof. Be humble and ackowledge what you are saying is but your opinion and perspective, not the definitve truth!

If I went soley on what the media has reported and has decided not to report...I would think this war was a horrible mistake. It's easy for most people to fall into that trap. If the media spent as much time showing you the success stories and accomplishments over there in Afghanistan and Iraq as they do bashing the President, bashing the war effort, pretending like 3 shark attacks in a years time is news worthy and a danger to everyone, scaring everyone about a flu epidemic that hasn't even shown to be transferrable to humans, etc, etc, etc.

Point is you only know what they decide to tell you. There are so many great stories, successes and accomplishments over there, but because they don't want people to have a positive view point on this war, you won't hear them.
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Post by noel »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Your stupid, "I know better than the people in charge", opinions are based off of what the media tells you. Off of what is represented to you. If you went on a tour of Iraq with the Military we have over there, you'd come back with a completely different view point and perspective.

As a person, beyond just this topic....here is a bit of life advice for you. Stop thinking you know better than everyone else. Stop assuming you know the true story. You only know the story being told to you. If you can accept the fact that you truly don't know, you will be left with making assumptions purely on logic and common sense, but always buffer them with, "but I could be wrong"...."it's just my opinion of what I think.....". Try and be a little less filled with vile, a little less of a destoyer of someone in words to lessen what that person is trying to say...you will have a much better life.

Just a little advice for you. Merry Christmas everyone. I hope you all get what you want from your loved ones and friends.
Here's a little bit of advice for you Midnyte...

READ:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/national ... -3063r.htm
I can find 50 more articles just like that if needed.

There will never be a time where I post my own personal 'feelings' on these things like you do. I know quite a bit, but I'm 100% cognizant of the limitations of my knowledge and intelligence. I will base my opinions on the statements made by people who know more than I do.

If you've decided not to trust anything the 'media' says, so be it. It's no big loss for the rest of us, but don't bother participating in conversations where the people who are actually reading and keeping up on current events are talking.

The opinions I'm stating are based off of the direct quotes of military leaders in IRAQ. Do you have any concept of what kind of trouble a reporter will get in for falsifying what is supposed to be a direct quote? When they quote Bush or Rumsfeld saying things are going well, you gobble that up. What's the fucking difference?

You're an idiot. You lecture others on logic and common sense when you have none of your own.

You want to prove me wrong, post great stories of successes, accomplishments etc. over there from reputable news sources. I'm not talking a kid walking up to a soldier and waving to him, I'm talking about something that actually makes a difference to Iraq as a whole.

I love how everyone else posts their opinions based on facts they've read/observed, and you attempt to discredit them by stating that everything they're being told is wrong. Do you realize that the biggest problem most of us have with the Bush Administration is that we're all afraid that everything we're being told is wrong? Not by the media... by them.

Here's some advice for you... pal.

If you ever want me to take anything you say seriously, I expect that any counterpoint to something I post be sourced and from a reputable news agency. Your emotional arguments of why we're all wrong, and everything is rosy and beautiful have worn thin and made you irrelevant. If you don't trust the media at all, and aren't willing to accept them as a source of information, just let me know now so I can put you on ignore.

People like you are the reason that the rest of the world things Americans are stupid.


PS For the record, I absolutely popped a cog when I saw your post. There was absolutely zero content and nothing but emotional arguments based on no fact, and instead your own personal feelings. I have no problem debating shit with you, but if you're going to post nonsensical superstitious bullshit, just save it and don't bother.
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Post by Pherr the Dorf »

Merry Christmas Mid, and I do mean that.

This is a message board, it is a place to toss out our opinions, I didn't think an unquoted bit of text would be taken as anything but my opinion. If I wasn't on a freakin Apple at my families house I would have linked the sort of stories where the Generals and Soldiers are expressing their frustration at the lack of direction as well as the old school Russian generals who have called Iraq America's Afganistan. Like I stated, I don't want this shithole to be for nothing but currently that is the direction it is headed (shall I add in my opinion as well as the opinion of the Commanders that are on the ground here to make you feel better?).

My Afganistan comment was to make people think and to be honest Mid I would love to know if you see the parallels, if you maybe see the potential for history to repeat itself, if you see the possibility that this occupation could have disasterous effects on our way of life back home, and if you think the risk is truely worth it when the society we are trying to alter, IN MY OPINION, wants nothing to do with a true democracy and will fall back into a Dictatorship as soon as outside forces leave.

I don't think I am always right, but I do pay attention to history and my sig says a lot about what I feel my duty is as an American.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Noel,

I never said you won't find quotes from people over in Iraq to support your side. You can always find posts, articles, facts to support any argument you want to make. That's the whole point. I don't play those games. Just be wary thinking that because you read those they somehow represent 100% of the truth. If you dig a little deeper you will find stories supporting the many achievements and progress goign on over there and majority support from the citizens of Iraq. Who knows what the exact total is? Who cares? Can you poll? Sure you can. But, the poll will only show what people want you to see. They will only ask certain peopel in certain regions, or ask the question in a certain way, etc.

I don't care about being a negative hindsight is 20/20, know-it-all type. We are there. I support and will wish nothign but great things come from this effort in the short term, but mostly in the long term. I hope when we look back 10-20 years from now it will all have been worth it. I am very happy 7000 men and women get to come home and rejoin life in America with their families. That was the point of this post. Again, Merry Christmas.
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Post by noel »

Religion is something you choose to believe in or not believe in based on faith. Current events, government, politics, finances, etc. are not faith based decisions because they don't have to be.

Done with this thread. Have a Merry Christmas.
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Post by Jice Virago »

THis is all BS anyhow. They are going to let some troops come home early in time for the '06 campaigns then ramp the shit back up immediately following that, just like they did in '04.
War is an option whose time has passed. Peace is the only option for the future. At present we occupy a treacherous no-man's-land between peace and war, a time of growing fear that our military might has expanded beyond our capacity to control it and our political differences widened beyond our ability to bridge them. . . .

Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
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Post by Voronwë »

hey arent the national guard supposed to be depyloyed within the United States?

regardless, good for the individuals and the families.
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Post by Dregor Thule »

Voronwë wrote:hey arent the national guard supposed to be depyloyed within the United States?

regardless, good for the individuals and the families.
They're guarding the nation by taking the fight to the enemy.
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Post by Siji »

Sionistic wrote:and was the largest attack ever on USA.
I still have an issue with people saying this. By no means was this as large scale of an attack as Pearl Harbor was. You had some guys that took over some planes that crashed into a crowded area. So yeah, the death rate was high. If you would have had the amount of planes Japan sent at us all suiciding into various parts of the western coast, you could easily have had unimaginable destruction.
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Post by Sionistic »

No they were not on the same scale, but both were equally deadly. Pearl Habor was a broad strike and 9/11 was a concise and hard blow. If you think it attacks in pure destruction, pearl harbor was greater. However, Japan wasnt aiming to kill as many people as possible or criple our economy, they wanted to level our military force. The 9/11 attack had 3 sole purposes, to terrorize the populace, criple our economy, and take out many leading powers. (Which was never acomplished) If you were to compare the two..

Financially, in Pearl Harbor we had to rebuild half our fleet. However it sent us into war and the push helped us out of the depression. In 9/11 it sent us into a slight recession. When you incorporate the cost of the repairs, and the business lost, and stock value losses, 9/11 was far greater.

People wise, we lost much more people in 9/11 than Pearl Harbor. However most people in 9/11 were civilians. In Pearl Harbor it was mostly military. I dont know how to compare values of different people and wouldnt want to start. So I dont see which one had more lasting impact.

Government wise, I know there will be debate about this, Pearl Harbor unified us into war. While 9/11 ultimately ended in dividing the country.

As for Japan using all the planes to attack our coast instead. Japan would of left their force wide open for a severe counter attack.

If any part of my post doesnt make sense, im really tired right now heh
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Post by Nick »

We all know Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 yeah?
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Post by Spang »

if i understand correctly, there's no proven direct link but if 9/11 never happens...who knows?
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Nick wrote:We all know Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 yeah?
I don't think Iraq had a hand in 9/11.
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Post by *~*stragi*~* »

kyoukan wrote:That's great. Iraq is still a fucking mess with no stability or control because of the US. And now you're leaving.
I fail to see the problem.
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Post by Nick »

gg
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