Tookie Williams

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 13, 2005, 8:17 pm

Kelshara wrote: Persons execute for interracial murders:
White defendant/black victim: 12
Black defendant/white victim: 206

Where's the White/White and Black/Black stats?

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » December 13, 2005, 9:07 pm

You Reap what you sow.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » December 13, 2005, 9:16 pm

Winnow wrote:Where's the White/White and Black/Black stats?

They don't further anyone's agenda.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » December 13, 2005, 10:40 pm

They're also not as significant as the statistics regarding interracial murders for this particular purpose. Not that they have no value, but they are unquestionably less useful.

Midnyte, is typing "FUCK YOU" at the end of any post in which you disagree with someone your new debate tactic or something?

cid · Post by **cid** » December 13, 2005, 10:47 pm

Cartalas wrote:You Reap what you sow.

LOL!!!

Mid you are seriously coming off as a fucktard here. There is a lot of different ways you could have come across on this topic and I would have agreed with you. The way you went about it just makes you look like a serious ass.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » December 13, 2005, 11:48 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:If we put in a death row express lane, I can guarantee you the violent crime will go down.

that's a great idea, dumbass. why don't you tell it to the literally hundreds of people who've been released from death row because new or supressed evidence exonerated from the crime?

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » December 14, 2005, 2:08 am

The Death Penalty has not, and never will be a deterrent for violent crime. It's scary so many people actually seem to believe that.

Here is the reasoning:

Many people that commit violent crimes do so in "momments of passion". They are not thinking clearly. After the crime is committed, they are under the delusion that they will some how not get caught. If the murder(s) were pre-planned, they certianly do not intend on getting caught. Therefore, the entire argument that the death penalty somehow weighs in on a criminal's thought process are completely null and void. That argument has no merrit. The criminals simply do not factor getting caught into thier equation. They are not weighing the pros and cons of thier actions as/before they commit thier crimes. This is fundamental logic.

Also worth noting is that the Death Penalty is done entirely in private. In what way is that an example to would-be murderers about the consequences of thier actions? If this theory was even remotely correct, as oppossed to the thinly guised veil of BS that it is, then executions would be televised or held in town squares. Even when that was done, violent crime still existed. Imagine that.

See my post in the other thread for more reasons why I do not trust or support the Death Penalty.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » December 14, 2005, 3:56 am

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:It's people with mindsets like you midnyte, that get innocent people killed all the fucking time, you are are worthless sack of shit and I really hope one day someone goes out of their way to make you truly understand this.
.
There is the reason why you cannot grasp what I have said and also why you are not worth conversing with. You would wish me physical harm? It is people like me? People like me who expect the system to be just and swift? To get things right the first time...to not drag things out over 25 years....so that assholes like you think "gee...he did it so long ago and has written childrens books." FUCK YOU

Wow, great point... I mean seriously, the last dozen or so replies you have made to something I have said have made you look like an ignorant ass, and it doesnt seem that im anywhere near the only one that thinks that. Keep it up though.

Noysyrump · Post by **Noysyrump** » December 14, 2005, 3:05 pm

You fukmooks actually think because he wrote a piece of shit "childrens book" that he should have been alowed to live? You actually care that the state "murdered" one of the biggest scumbag fukshitturds ever to walk the face of the earth.

Get the fuk off your hollier than thou soapbox. Even if that POS book saved 15 lives his fuking gang KILLED THOUSANDS! and ruined the lives of tens of thousands of people since HE CREATED IT! He killed INOCENT people. a convieniance store clerk died because this fuktardstainshitass wanted to rob him. Fuk him, I'm glad he's dead and I hope many more people like him die.'

Woot curseladen post #300!~

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » December 14, 2005, 4:43 pm

honestly i find life without parole in seclusion a hell of a lot worse then execution...its also a lot cheaper, just like many other laws in this country their is absolutely no logic to support them

Traz-KOE · Post by **Traz-KOE** » December 14, 2005, 5:20 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:FUK U HITLER

Mid wins teh interweb. Executions for all.

Acies · Post by **Acies** » December 14, 2005, 11:03 pm

He was nominated for the nobel peace prize after his imprisonment. Think about that. This man was obviously doing something to contribute to the overall benefit of society after he was put in jail to be considered for it. Yet, for all his work, he could not change his fate. He died anyway.

A simple murderer executed, or a changed man murdered himself?

Sendarie · Post by **Sendarie** » December 14, 2005, 11:39 pm

Acies wrote:He was nominated for the nobel peace prize after his imprisonment. Think about that.

Do you know what it takes to be a nobel peace prize nominee?

Right to submit proposals for the Nobel Peace Prize, based on the principle of competence and universality, shall by statute be enjoyed by:

1. Members of national assemblies and governments of states;
2. Members of international courts;
3. University rectors; professors of social sciences, history, philosophy, law and theology; directors of peace research institutes and foreign policy institutes;
4. Persons who have been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize;
5. Board members of organizations who have been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize;
6. Active and former members of the Norwegian Nobel Committee; (proposals by members of the Committee to be submitted no later than at the first meeting of the Committee after February 1) and
7. Former advisers appointed by the Norwegian Nobel Institute.

How this for an ABSOLUTE lack of credibility/validity in this argument.
George Bush
Tony Blair
Both nominated for the Nobel Peace Price b/c of the War in Iraq.
edit: And lets not forget VV's favorite mass murderer.
Adolf Hitler = Nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize.

As for executions detering murders. The speedy means of execution in southwest asian countries has been an incredible deterent for murders. Same for rapes and burglery.
Start an institution with a true "eye for an eye" mentality and crime will wither away.
Of course creating a system with the integrity to responsibly handle this in our current system of government.....well maybe in another couple hundred years we will be that advanced and forward thinking.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » December 14, 2005, 11:56 pm

There's countries around that hold the people running the legal system personally responsible for the decisions and accusations they make. Knowingly convict someone unjustly and your life expectancy isn't too good for serious crimes, most of which carry the death penalty. Your career is over and you'll spend time in prison for lesser ones. There's no "oops, sorry" or anything else about it like you see in our legal system.

*Edit - There are positives to them, but I wouldn't want to live in any of those countires either. Our system is pretty screwed up, but still far better than the alternatives.

Sendarie · Post by **Sendarie** » December 15, 2005, 12:11 am

Oh to dream.

My dad was in Saudi working as a contractor years before any of this current war stuff started. As an American on a plane full of Americans when they got off the plane they were taken to a central part of the city. They watched 3 men have their hands chopped off and 1 man beheaded.

Their translator told them, this is what happens to thieves and murderers here and explained what the penalty was for rape.....lets just say you can only do it once

Saudi is an incredible place to buy large amounts of gold and jewelry cheap. What amazed them the most is that in the afternoon when the shop owners and local jewelry vendors closed up for the night they....just left everything open and out. They would cover their stands with a large cloth sheet to keep it from getting dusty but never took anything inside or locked anything up.

....tell me thats not a system that works.

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » December 15, 2005, 1:25 am

Jesus loves when you kill people

Sendarie · Post by **Sendarie** » December 15, 2005, 1:39 am

Pherr the Dorf wrote:Jesus loves when you kill people

.....who?

Kargyle · Post by **Kargyle** » December 15, 2005, 11:53 am

Sendarie wrote:Oh to dream.

My dad was in Saudi working as a contractor years before any of this current war stuff started. As an American on a plane full of Americans when they got off the plane they were taken to a central part of the city. They watched 3 men have their hands chopped off and 1 man beheaded.

Their translator told them, this is what happens to thieves and murderers here and explained what the penalty was for rape.....lets just say you can only do it once

Saudi is an incredible place to buy large amounts of gold and jewelry cheap. What amazed them the most is that in the afternoon when the shop owners and local jewelry vendors closed up for the night they....just left everything open and out. They would cover their stands with a large cloth sheet to keep it from getting dusty but never took anything inside or locked anything up.

....tell me thats not a system that works.

Well, that isn't the Saudi Arabia that I remember. I lived there for 3 years with my parents, and the rest of my family lived there for 10 years. I had to leave because school for westerners only went up to 9th grade. I remember all the shops shutting down for prayer, and everyone of them locked their doors. Also, during the entire time my family was there they never once saw an execution. Sure, we heard about them, read about them in the paper, but it was the kind of thing you only saw live and in person if you wanted to see it.

Also, Saudi has a much higher crime rate than they like to admit. It isn't like the news is reporting about the robberies or murders generally, that stuff is most commonly heard about when they have caught someone and are about to punish them. Oh, one other thing, in all the time there I never once saw anyone selling quality jewelry off the street, it was always inside a shop. You could find cheap silver being sold on the streets, but I never once saw gold being sold that way. Now, I don't know where your father was living, so maybe things were different in that province or whatever.

I lived in Jubail, about 120 miles south of Kuwait. I regularly took trips to Dhaharan and Khobar with my family, and we visited Riyadh and Jeddah. I'm not calling you a liar, but you are giving a very skewed perspective.

Noysyrump wrote:You fukmooks actually think because he wrote a piece of shit "childrens book" that he should have been alowed to live? You actually care that the state "murdered" one of the biggest scumbag fukshitturds ever to walk the face of the earth.

I'm sorry. Bastard that Tookie may be, he's nowhere close to being "one of the biggest scumbag fukshitturds ever to walk the face of the earth." That list is reserved for the likes of Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Vlad the Impaler, etc.

Noysyrump wrote:Get the fuk off your hollier than thou soapbox. Even if that POS book saved 15 lives his fuking gang KILLED THOUSANDS! and ruined the lives of tens of thousands of people since HE CREATED IT! He killed INOCENT people. a convieniance store clerk died because this fuktardstainshitass wanted to rob him. Fuk him, I'm glad he's dead and I hope many more people like him die.'

This is some pretty questionable logic. Just because he founded the gang does not make him responsible for the actions of it's members. Especially one he was incarcerated. That would be like saying the inventer of gun powder was responsible for all the lives gun powder has taken. Or that Jesus is responsibile for all of the people killed during the Crusades.

Sure, Tookie is a bastard, and he got what society at large felt he deserved, and I'm sure as hell not going to mourn for him. But he isn't responsible for every act of gang violence.

For the record. I'm against the Death Penalty, but I don't feel Williams was any more deserving of commutation than any one else on death row. What he did afterward doesn't change the crime he committed.

Sendarie · Post by **Sendarie** » December 15, 2005, 12:08 pm

Maybe i'm confused then.

He was gone for right at 3 years. Part of that I know he worked in Riyadh and part of it was in the UAE, in Dubai. He always was a huge camera whore taking pictures of everything and we still have just ridiculous amount of gold in safe deposit boxes and probably 20-30 pictures of the street vendors with gold/silver and some gemstones.

When did you live there? I was young but I believe it was somewhere around 82-85 that he was over there.

Hell I tell you what when I head to visit the family for the holidays I'll grab some of the pix and scan them in.

Kargyle · Post by **Kargyle** » December 15, 2005, 12:19 pm

We lived there later than that. I think my dad went over in 88, or 89, and the rest of us followed in 89, or 90 (about 9 monthes after whenever my dad went.) We were there a year before the first Gulf War. I do know Riyahd being the capitol is quite a bit different than Jubail. It wasn't until probably 92 or 93 that we took a trip to Riyahd and Jeddah, so things could have changed pretty substantially by then.

Oh, and Dubai is very nice. I was only there once and it was only for the day, but it is very different from Saudi. Atleast it was back then.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » December 15, 2005, 12:22 pm

The gold Suq in Dubai has areas like you described Send. It had enclosed shops as well. Cool place, though I never saw unattended merchandise.

In the parts of UAE that I saw if you were to drop money on the street someone would chase you down to give it back. I still wouldn't want to live there for any number of reasons. When the cop with the submachine gun tells you to stop, it's a very good idea to do so.

The crime in Saudi is pretty bad, and the govt extremely corrupt. You just don't hear about it. Japan isn't much different for that matter.

Sendarie · Post by **Sendarie** » December 15, 2005, 3:59 pm

Japan is nothing like Saudi. Crime there is almost to the point of being nonexistent.
I lived in Japan from 1996 to 2003 (7years 1 month). I lived off base, on the local economy. Not once in that time did I lock the door to my house or pull the key out of the ignition in my car. It was common place to do so.
I never even heard about robbery or any crime for that matter while I was there except I remember one time there was some guy that stabbed and killed a female. It was on the news for freaking ever b/c it such a rare thing.

Well thats not entirely true, there was some crime but that was Americans, usually the depenedent teenage children of US military doing stupid shit like shoplifting or stealing CD's out of parked cars.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 15, 2005, 4:19 pm

Sendarie wrote:Japan is nothing like Saudi. Crime there is almost to the point of being nonexistent.

That's because tying up women, raping, and then pooping on them isn't a crime in Japan. There's a chance that pictures on the internet might be stereotyping them too much!

Sendarie · Post by **Sendarie** » December 15, 2005, 5:08 pm

That stuff is staged Winnow. Japanese seem to have a different view of sex than we do. For example on Japanese "daytime drama" (soap opera) TV it wasnt uncommon to see tits, or some love struck young hotness blowing her CEO in the hottub.

Outdoor hotsprings "Onsens" were all over the place in the mountains and men/women alike would be in there all time of the day and night fully nude and very respectful. No staring or oggling or anything unappropriate.

Culture shock there is something that took a while to get over especially if you really immerse yourself into that culture.

VeeshanVault

Tookie Williams

What do you feel they should have done with Tookie Williams