Internet2 - Details please!

Mr Bacon · Post by **Mr Bacon** » November 3, 2005, 9:06 pm

So my school has announced that they will finally be giving Internet2 access to the campus by winter break. My question is: what does this mean exactly?

This is what I know thus far: (from what I've read up on the web, combined with information from a few students who work for network services here).

-Internet2 isn't an actual network, but just a group that provides the necessary tools and hardware for setting it up. Members are exclusively select Educational Facilities and Businesses.

-The actual network is really the Abilene network, which is big on IPv6, IP Multicasting, and quality of service. It's insanely fast - gigs/second.

-The network is separate from the 'public' internet.

-Most institutions create a backbone to connect to the public internet, so it's still accessible.

I guess my major question is, and please don't give a definite answer on this (guesses are still fine) unless you know from experience: Will using the 'public' internet be faster than it was before? We run an 8Mbit line for 2500-3000 people, so it's insanely congested. My guess is that this will at least lower bandwidth strains even if the 'public' internet isn't sped up.

Neost · Post by **Neost** » November 3, 2005, 10:21 pm

you will still be constrained by the size of the smallest pipe you pass through to hit the internet. Unless your facility opens up DS/OC pipes you will still have the same contention for bandwidth you have today for things that must cross the public internet.

Mr Bacon · Post by **Mr Bacon** » November 3, 2005, 11:15 pm

Another question: What exactly is available on this network? I'm assuming it's strictly educational and contains thousands of resources to help, but is there anything else? Have big sites like google for example ported over?

Also, could you clarify this DS/OC issue? When announcing our participation, they mentioned that "the internet will be running 8 times faster," which leads me to believe that somehow they will be speeding up the pipes to the regular internet as well.

Do the DS/OC pipes refer to the connection we have to the internet now, or does it involve internet2?

noel · Post by **noel** » November 4, 2005, 2:07 am

Anyone that wants, feel free to correct me where I'm wrong. I'm basing all of my responses on my understanding of Internet 2 and my experience working at UCLA where I2 vs. commodity is a sometimes daily topic of discussion.

What does this mean exactly?

What it means is that should you be accessing another device on the I2 (pronounced eye-two) link, you should have significantly less contention (really the bottom line for the whole discussion) than you'd normally have when accessing that same resource via the public Internet. Practically, when you hit your router and are requesting a resource that's available via I2, you'll take the I2 route instead of the public Internet route (sometimes called Commodity). The students that will primarily benefit from this will be the Comp-Sci or Science majors that are doing large research projects with other universities/scientists. Practically, you'll notice a major difference if you're doing something like downloading the latest Linux distro or playing a multiplayer game that's hosted on another campus network.

-Internet2 isn't an actual network, but just a group that provides the necessary tools and hardware for setting it up. Members are exclusively select Educational Facilities and Businesses.

I2 is an actual network, and the only businesses I'm aware of that have access to it are large research institutions or large companies that provide grants to people doing research on educational campuses. I'm sure there are exceptions.

-The actual network is really the Abilene network, which is big on IPv6, IP Multicasting, and quality of service. It's insanely fast - gigs/second.

Bottom line is it's all about research. I'm sure there are v6 nodes on it, and I'm sure there are individuals running v6 tests, but I seriously doubt that every router on I2 is running or required to run IPV6, multicast routing protocols (DVMRP, PIM-SM, PIM-DM) or quality of service (QoS) (ToS, MPLS, etc.). Your university might choose to implement these protocols/technologies on their router, but I doubt that every router on I2 has them set up (though it's possible).

-The network is separate from the 'public' internet.

Agreed. See above.

-Most institutions create a backbone to connect to the public internet, so it's still accessible.

The addition of an I2 link or access as a student will be largely transparent to you as an average user.
You won't lose access to anything, and you probably won't know (unless you check) when you're accessing I2 vs. commmodity.

Will using the 'public' internet be faster than it was before? We run an 8Mbit line for 2500-3000 people, so it's insanely congested. My guess is that this will at least lower bandwidth strains even if the 'public' internet isn't sped up.

Potentially. It depends on how much of your normal traffic would normally be using the I2 link. Now that traffic won't have to use your commodity link so potentially the commodity link will be less congested. Most likely you won't see a major difference, but it's impossible for me to say without examining your traffic profiles in the way of S-flow or Net-flow data.

What exactly is available on this network? I'm assuming it's strictly educational and contains thousands of resources to help, but is there anything else? Have big sites like google for example ported over?

See above. You could examine a traceroute once the link is up to see where traffic goes. Do a test where you go to another I2 enabled campus, then do a test that goes to something public like Ford.com or homedepot.com etc. You should see your traffic take a different egress route for different destinations, so you can then determine what resources you regularly use make use of the I2 link. It wouldn't surprise me if companies like google, microsoft and maybe even cnn were accessible via I2.

Also, could you clarify this DS/OC issue? When announcing our participation, they mentioned that "the internet will be running 8 times faster," which leads me to believe that somehow they will be speeding up the pipes to the regular internet as well.

Again, difficult to say. Depends on how it's being implemented, what's being added, and what they mean by 'the Internet'. That's a very vague statement.

Do the DS/OC pipes refer to the connection we have to the internet now, or does it involve internet2?

Most universities use either DSX (Digital Subscriber) or OC-X (Optical Carrier) where X equals some number as an indication of speed. DS1 is just a T1 (1.54Mbps). DS3 is ~45Mbps.

Further reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_Carrier
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DS1
http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition ... 04,00.html

Hope that's helpful.

Mr Bacon · Post by **Mr Bacon** » November 4, 2005, 4:52 am

Thanks for clarifying that, and chatting with me tonight Noel. Cute puppy!

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » November 4, 2005, 12:16 pm

Internet 2 and Merit Network Inc. both moved into their new building in Ann Arbor about 9 months ago. It's VERY nice

If you are not familiar with Merit they did a great deal of reasearch and were part of the original NASC controlled Internet back in the 80s/early 90s... they developed one of the common authentication protocols called RADIUS as well and run MichNet (arguably one of the best backbones on the Internet)

You can find out more information about Merit and Internet 2 at the following links...

http://www.internet2.edu
http://www.merit.edu
http://www.michitc.org

And no I'm not from Michigan, just spent a lot of time up at Merit / Internet 2 earlier this year. Some really brilliant people up there working on that stuff... I mean I think (know?) I'm very intelligent, especially in regards to how everything works on the Internet, but I was working with guys who could quote the differential equation formula for how light diffuses over fiber and work the answer in their head, sorry Calc III without a peice of paper and a pencil is beyond my abilities! Lots of good people working on that project. If you do any Comp/Sci research you will love I2. If you aren't, just know that it will be a good thing for your school in general and especially your peers doing research.

Cheers!
Marb

noel · Post by **noel** » November 4, 2005, 2:48 pm

Because responding to your post had me so focused on the user-impact of I2 connectivity, I forgot what's really the most important thing to your universities IT group.

With commodity traffic, they pay based on the bandwidth they use. I2 traffic is free. So generally they don't care how much is used. At UCLA, they have a traffic shaper to commodity, but I2 is wide open.

With your universities present bandwidth, I doubt they are shaping anything.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » November 7, 2005, 7:27 pm

They aren't shaping the minds of today's youts? For shame!

Mr Bacon · Post by **Mr Bacon** » November 7, 2005, 10:44 pm

I received an email (addressed to all students) from the head of the IT department:

College Community:

Network Support Services is pleased to announce that St. Mary’s College of Maryland will be joining the University of Maryland Academic Telecommunications System (UMATS). UMATS operates a statewide network that interconnects the University System of Maryland with several other networks, including the Internet and Internet2 networks.

These new services are currently scheduled to be available by the beginning of the Spring semester. Once the connection is completed, the College's Internet speed will be significantly upgraded from the current speed of 10 mbps to 45 mbps. We will provide additional information once service dates are finalized.

Links for additional information are:

What is Internet2: http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition ... 29,00.html
UMATS : http://www.umats.ums.edu/
Internet2 : http://www.internet2.edu/

Can you guys gather anything new from this?

noel · Post by **noel** » November 7, 2005, 11:30 pm

Yeah, you're getting upgraded to a DS3/T3.

Your point of contact to the Internet is 45Mbps, regardless of whether or not you're going to the Internet or I2. The router will take care of that.

You're not going to have a separate connection, just a separate route, so it's a good situation for all involved.

Mr Bacon · Post by **Mr Bacon** » November 7, 2005, 11:48 pm

So my connection to Internet1 won't be limited to the 10(8.5)mbps.. Hooray!