Wow Horrible Umping this playoffs

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » October 13, 2005, 12:12 am

I know that the final run was scored because Crede hit the ball. Ultimately that cost the Angels, but why would an umpire even put himself in position to possibly change a series? He called him out, he was clearly out and he still let him run to first.

I am a Yankees fan first, the umps made bad calls in that series too, but nothing on the scale of that call. Gratz ump, you just helped change a series. They should pull him from the rest of the playoffs, he is going to see he made a bad mistake tonight and probably attempt to fix it later in the series, causing even more issues. Pull that jackass now.

StupidMcDupid · Post by **StupidMcDupid** » October 13, 2005, 12:18 am

Im a Astros fan, and I agree with you, that umpire clearly signaled a strikeout, and yet he let A.J. pryz whatever the hell go to first.What a lame ending to that game too...

Also, did you see how the White Sox players got interviewed at the end too?They even knew that was a damn strikeout.Gratz Ump, on fucking up that series.

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » October 13, 2005, 1:43 am

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » October 13, 2005, 1:44 am

Then he tried to cover it in the interview. He made that same signal everytime a player struck out. He made the no contact sign pointing to the right (meaning third strike) and then the out signal. Now, suddenly, your signs in the 9th inning mean something different? The Angels made a mistake in not protesting that game. They had to do it when the call was made and never did.

Xyphir · Post by **Xyphir** » October 13, 2005, 2:02 am

The ump thought it was a dropped third strike. The pitcher recorded the strike-out, but because the ump thought the ball hit the dirt, he let Pierzynski run to first. Does anyone know what the rule is for a dropped third strike? I do agree that it was a bogus call, but the A's catcher, Josh Paul, should have tagged him just in case.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » October 13, 2005, 3:55 am

If it is dropped it is ok to run to first.

That said , I have never seen a player run to first on a ball like that. If the bounce was obvious then maybe, but being the end of the inning, with the ump definitely signaling an out, never. The ump screwed up royally and the fact that his press conference was such big news tells you how bad the call was. In a well called game, the umps are invisible during and after the game.

As for the Angels protesting, it would not matter, Selig would deny it and nothing would change. The bigger concern would be in the coming games, that guy is going to feel like he needs to make up the call to the Angels and it could screw things up worse for one of the teams. You could see in the press conference he knew he was wrong, despite his story.

Morgrym · Post by **Morgrym** » October 13, 2005, 8:40 am

Animale · Post by **Animale** » October 13, 2005, 9:11 am

While it was a bad call, the catcher is really to blame here. If it is ANY chance that the ball hit the dirt you tag the runner. Even if the ump calls it him out anyway, you tag the runner - especially on the 3rd out where you flip it away. If the catcher did his job this wouldn't have been an issue, but instead he was flippant about his job. Smart move by A.J. (who is a catcher and knows about TAG THE RUNNER).

Blown call + lazy catcher = Sox Win!!!

Animale

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » October 13, 2005, 9:51 am

It wasn't a bad call. The umpire is suppose to signal the strike signal even though the player can run to first due to a dropped ball.

Edit: nm, I just saw a reply and the catcher did catch the ball. It never hit the ground. So ya, bad call.

Waran · Post by **Waran** » October 13, 2005, 1:40 pm

Morgrym wrote:

That's not the umpire! Its Enrico Pallazo!!

"Oh say can you see, by the dawn's early light, what so prou-ou-ou-oudly we hailed, at the twi-light's last gle-e-aming. Whose bright stripes and broad stars, throught the perilous night, o'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming. And the rocket's...red glare! Lots of bombs in the air, gave proof through the night, that we still had our flag. Oh does that star spangled banner wave o-o-o-over all we see, for the h-o-o-ome of the land, and the land...of the...FREE!"

XunilTlatoani · Post by **XunilTlatoani** » October 13, 2005, 3:04 pm

I honestly don't see how this is any different than when an umpire calls a strike a ball or vice versa. His job is to make judgement calls without the aid of instant replay...therefore, his judgement is law and the players have to deal with it.

As for the ambiguity of his third strike signal, I really can't tell you. I didn't pay attention or see replays of previous innings where he called a third strike. I know a lot of umps show two signals on strike three, but I only saw one from this guy and the signal he gave looked more like an "out" than "strike three". But, the catcher never looks at the ump, so there must be an audible signal as well that obviously AJ caught, but Josh Paul didn't. If anything, this will probably open up talks into the standardization of umpire signals.

All that aside, assuming that the ump correctly called a third strike but not an out, the fault is completely on the Angels catcher. If it is a close play, you can't give up on it. If the outfielder thinks a ball is foul, should he not throw it back in? Is he supposed to look at the umpires for the fair/foul signal before he makes a play? Of course not.

The ball was close enough to the ground that his glove was on the ground and kicked up some dirt. Plain and simple, it was an inexcusable bonehead mistake of the catcher to not tag AJ out just in case.

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » October 13, 2005, 4:17 pm

He made two signals. One signal was pointing his right arm to the right, meaning the batter swung and did not make contact. His second signal was a pumped fist, which he said meant 3rd strike but not an out. However, through the entire game, he was using his pumped fist as the out call on a 3rd strike. For other batters throughout the game, if the ball was in the dirt, he would point his arm to the right and then wait until the batter was tagged before pumping his fist for the out. He didn't do that here. He royally screwed the call up.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » October 13, 2005, 6:34 pm

if the batter wasn't a catcher, he probably never would have thought to run to first. But since AJ has had experience with an ump blowing a call like this before, he just went.

the ump blew the call. that is all there is to it.

umps blow calls periodically: Jeffrey Mayer for instance. Kent Hrbek wrestling Ron Gant(?) off of 1st to tag him out. Eric Gregg giving Livan "Grimace" Hernandez a 30" wide strike zone.

it happens. it sucks though.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » October 13, 2005, 7:16 pm

I agree that shit happens, but the ump should definitely be pulled. Either thru subconsciously trying to make up for this stupidity and giving the team he fucked an edge, or in response to being booed by the fans (which he will be) giving it to the other team, he's gonna fuck this series more if he's left in.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · October 14, 2005, 1:14 am

Doesn't matter either way. The fact is, the ball hit the ground. The catcher fucked up by not touching AJ.

StupidMcDupid · Post by **StupidMcDupid** » October 14, 2005, 1:27 am

THE BALL DIDN'T FUCKIN HIT THE GROUND PENDEJO.

The ump fucked up by signaling an out, and what I've heard is that the catcher saw and or heard the ump signal/say out, to where the catcher was too happy to care and ran, and threw the ball to the mound without knowing, A.J. would get away with something like that.

Pierzynskei or whatever was interviewed today, and he said what we thought he would say,"I don't know if the ball hit the ground or not, I just thought I'd run to first base as if the ball did hit the ground, if I get away with it then I get away with it, and I did".

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » October 14, 2005, 8:08 am

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Doesn't matter either way. The fact is, the ball hit the ground. The catcher fucked up by not touching AJ.

The ball didnt touch the ground.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » October 14, 2005, 8:48 am

When a ball is low and away the catcher and batter block the umpire's view. They have to make some of those calls by sound of from somewhat of a judgement. Anything that looks to be in the dirt, as a catcher you need to apply the tag.

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » October 14, 2005, 9:30 am

Last night on TSN, they did a breakdown of the umpire's calls by going back in the game to see how he called. When the player swung and the final strike was called, the umpire pointed to his right then did the fist pump to signal the batter was out. They came to the conclusion that he did in fact call him out in the 9nth.

However, they mostly place the blame on Scioscia for arguing about the call he made. He should of argued that the ball never touched the ground and maybe could of had the call reversed a second time.

Props to A.J. though.

Sabek · Post by **Sabek** » October 14, 2005, 10:24 am

In the end it comes down to the fact that it was a bad call, but if you want to win you have to roll with the bad breaks and get the next batter out.

Mawafu · Post by **Mawafu** » October 14, 2005, 10:28 am

I finally watched this "strikeout" and wonder why no one is focussing on the fact that Pierzynski left the batter's box, stepped across homeplate towards the dugout and then ran to 1st. Shouldn't he have been out based on this alone? Does anyone know the ruling on leaving the batters box/base path?

Truant · Post by **Truant** » October 14, 2005, 10:40 am

Mawafu wrote:I finally watched this "strikeout" and wonder why no one is focussing on the fact that Pierzynski left the batter's box, stepped across homeplate towards the dugout and then ran to 1st. Shouldn't he have been out based on this alone? Does anyone know the ruling on leaving the batters box/base path?

Yes. The rule states that in the situation of a drop third strike, if the batter takes his first step towards the dugout, play is dead, and the batter (Now runner) is automatically out.

Where Sciosca fucked up was in not protesting the game. Now granted, never in my life have a I seen a game that was protested come of anything...but this is so public that something would have to be done.

XunilTlatoani · Post by **XunilTlatoani** » October 14, 2005, 12:41 pm

Yes. The rule states that in the situation of a drop third strike, if the batter takes his first step towards the dugout, play is dead, and the batter (Now runner) is automatically out.

I believe the rule in this situation is that the player is alive until he takes the first step INTO the dugout. Actually, I think (not 100% positive) that the play where AJ screwed up last year, the batter took something like 10 seconds to get to first because he was already halfway to the dugout before his teammates told him to go to first.

Also, I think we are giving AJ too much credit in the first place. After I made my initial post, I heard interviews from people at the game that said that the reason AJ ran to first was because Ozzie was yelling at him from the dugout to do so.

XunilTlatoani · Post by **XunilTlatoani** » October 14, 2005, 12:52 pm

This is straight out of the MLB rulebook. Looks like they thought about this exact situation already:

When a batter becomes a base runner on a third strike not caught by the catcher and starts for the dugout, or his position, and then realizes his situation and attempts then to reach first base, he is not out unless he or first base is tagged before he reaches first base. If, however, he actually reaches the dugout or dugout steps, he may not then attempt to go to first base and shall be out.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/offic ... tter_6.jsp

Rule 6.09.b

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » October 14, 2005, 5:51 pm

Well, that settles that.

Trek · Post by **Trek** » October 14, 2005, 9:24 pm

If I was Scoscia I would Have my catcher throw to first after every strike out (unless theres men on base)

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 14, 2005, 9:46 pm

If the ball hits the dirt, it should be mandatory for the umpire to yell, "no catch" within a second or two of the pitch.

BTW, how does the homeplate Umpire even see stuff like that? He's blocked by the catcher.

The whole thing about being able to run to first if the ball isn't caught sounds like some pussy, that couldn't hit a ball if it was placed on a T, whined and had the rule made up so they had a chance of making it to 1st once in awhile. Stupid rule.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » October 15, 2005, 7:03 pm

Oh, oops...i stand corrected. Thanks.