To Speak as a Dragon quest:
I mean really.. this is just the warm up trash for the Prismatic quests so here's Flame Lord Thyr beating on a level 53 Paladin; a mob that was tankable at 48.
(1128519829)[Wed Oct 05 23:43:49 2005] Flame Lord Thyr's Mangle hits YOU for 1227 points of slashing damage.
(1128519831)[Wed Oct 05 23:43:51 2005] Flame Lord Thyr hits YOU for 2956 points of heat damage.
(1128519831)[Wed Oct 05 23:43:51 2005] You start fighting. (ho ho)
(1128519832)[Wed Oct 05 23:43:52 2005] Flame Lord Thyr hits Rogoth for 2826 points of heat damage. (oh thank god it decided to beat on the cleric)
(1128519833)[Wed Oct 05 23:43:53 2005] YOUR Refusal of Grace hits Flame Lord Thyr for 269 points of divine damage.
(1128519833)[Wed Oct 05 23:43:53 2005] YOUR Dynamism hits Flame Lord Thyr for 158 points of mental damage.
(1128519833)[Wed Oct 05 23:43:53 2005] Flame Lord Thyr is struck with a dynamic attack!
(1128519833)[Wed Oct 05 23:43:53 2005] Flame Lord Thyr's grace in combat falters.
(1128519834)[Wed Oct 05 23:43:54 2005] Flame Lord Thyr tries to burn YOU, but misses.
(1128519836)[Wed Oct 05 23:43:56 2005] Flame Lord Thyr's Slam hits YOU for 1722 points of crushing damage.
(1128519837)[Wed Oct 05 23:43:57 2005] Flame Lord Thyr hits YOU for 3176 points of heat damage.
(1128519837)[Wed Oct 05 23:43:57 2005] You stop fighting. (thank god for that, I thought the pain would never end...)
So let's see... a level 51 mob, in a single group instance zone, hit a level 53 paladin (in decent/ebon or better gear) for 9081HP in around 8 seconds.
Yes, yes, I see how I should adjust my tactics now....
The good old days when an expansion trivialised old content?
The good old days when an expansion trivialised old content?
May 2003 - "Mission Accomplished"
June 2005 - "The mission isn't easy, and it will not be accomplished overnight"
-- G W Bush, freelance writer for The Daily Show.
June 2005 - "The mission isn't easy, and it will not be accomplished overnight"
-- G W Bush, freelance writer for The Daily Show.
With all the bullshit that Sony has messed around with in the last month, no epic encounters were even tryable except like Rognog...but no one even messed with him because the "fish out of water" clause. Everytime the fish chased the tank or puller onto the beach where the raid was, the encounter broke, and couldn't finish the script. Live Update 14 went in yesterday and they were "supposed to fix Darathar and all the Drakota's" I even thought I heard they were fixing all the Speak Like a Dragon Quest mobs...maybe they didn't...I haven't pounded through that content in what seems like forever, because of all the grinding to lvl 60. I do know, that I hate playing anymore. The game has seriously lost interest for me. I stopped playing my Warlock and went to my Warden. It's retarded the changes they've done to the classes, but I won't go there on this thread. Also remember, that Paladin's aren't the greatest tanks anymore, because of the Combat Revamp. A lot of their mitigation and HP got taken away, as far as what I've seen. But yea, that's pretty insane dmg for a mob that can be tanked at 48. SOE Fucks paying customers yet again 
Can try this for some of the tanking discussion after DoF. Page 2 is Moorguards reply to it.
HAHAHHAHHAHHA.......hehhehe...hahhahhahahhhHAHHAHAH!!!.... hehI am Guardian and I can double the damage our group takes by using my l33t “protection” skills! I can root, snare, debuff and cripple myself in 12 different ways, and explode my heart too!
My 35 guardian used to be a badass... he was fun to play. I could solo better than most other classes and i fealt tough (like he's supposed to). I just started a sorcerer (soon to be warlock) and well, I'll probably never play my guardian again....
Leveling up, when my guard was tough, before the patch, I thought i did ok damage, capping aout at like 200 with my biggest attack and around 280 with my biggest DoT, I had an ae attack that hit for 100ish or so...
My new sorcerer. at level 14 (!) got orc mastery nuke and a conflageration point blank ae that BOTH do over 200 dmg... thats at level 14. all i gotta say is wow. I would run around grabing multiple group encounters, 2 blues or 3 green (non epic), and then kill them with 1 possibly 2 casts. For a single mob encounter, if its orc (or skeleton now at 16) i just mastery nuke it for almost no power and it's splat.
Then reading that thread make me not miss the Guardian and his deperate need for gear to be a good tank, when my sorc doesnt need to tank and can still out xp him.... solo.
Sick Balls!
Right now I'm a level 25, almost 26 Human Guardian. I have a 11 Sorc (soon to be Warlock), 11 Cleric, 10 Predator and my son has a 12 Crusader (paladin). The predator was going to be my main, eventually to be a ranger until I talked to a bunch of ranger... heh so I decided to make a warrior and guardian.
Just as DoF was about to come out I spent hours pouring over message boards about how Guardians were going to suck now... interestingly enough I read the same about Zerkers and almost every other tank. But from what I can tell at my measly level only Paladins really got screwed...
I say that because nothing much has changed yet for me. I rarely group, I would say 85% of my exp has been soloing. However the times I have grouped everything has always gone well and in fact I usually get /tells on a nightly basis from people I grouped with wanting to know if I would come tank for them because I'm the only tank they ever played with in which they didn't get touched. Personally I think I have a long way to go in learning the class, I rarely use intercept, ally or other abilities, I just do everything in my power to keep all the hate directed at me.
However outside of groups I can easly, at 25, solo level 28 1 down arrors and can take 2 yellow level 27 1 downs at once and barley get below half health or 4 to 5 level 26/26 triple dows (Cents in TS). It also doens't take me 10 years to kill a mob like I hear people complaining about all the time either... so at this point, AND THIS MAY CHANGE, I'm still loving my Guardian.
Don't get me wrong, playing the future Warlock is a freakin' blast as is (for now at least) the Cleric (however I may reroll an Inq). At this time though I'm going to continue with the Guardian, if for no other reason but because my guild doesn't have one. All the tanks are currently zerkers, we are a small guild so we don't raid (got burnt on that years ago) but it would be fun to have a meat shield... if I don't get nerfed too much more I guess. However I played a Paladin until 54 in EQ1 only to find myself constantly LFG a couple of months after Kunark. "/tell winnow hey you guys heading Seb? YEA! /tell Winnow Need another? doh... sorry Marb, we really need a tank" - and I use Winnow only because I couldn't think of anyone else at the moment but Paladins just SUCKED ASS... big time. So I rolled a Warrior, 2 boxed my Pally for heals and powerleveled (when I wasn't dealing with a guild crisis) the Warrior up... ONLY to have SOE turn around a few months later and fix Paladins so that they kicked major ass and then they nerfed Warriors! Thus I've been screwed by SOE so many times I expect it... maybe by time I get to 55-60 they will un-nerf guardians.
The last thing I will add though is that I do currently have (what I consider to be) very good equipment. Nos has made me Imbued Steel Legs, Arms and BP with a Helm on the way. I have a Legendary Tower Shield and Axe also. Inspecting other guardians I usually have more HP, do more damage and have a higher AC than any others I have come across within 5 levels of my character. I'm sure that is making a big difference...
Right now I'm having fun... if they nerf guardians I'll just play something else.
Marb
Just as DoF was about to come out I spent hours pouring over message boards about how Guardians were going to suck now... interestingly enough I read the same about Zerkers and almost every other tank. But from what I can tell at my measly level only Paladins really got screwed...
I say that because nothing much has changed yet for me. I rarely group, I would say 85% of my exp has been soloing. However the times I have grouped everything has always gone well and in fact I usually get /tells on a nightly basis from people I grouped with wanting to know if I would come tank for them because I'm the only tank they ever played with in which they didn't get touched. Personally I think I have a long way to go in learning the class, I rarely use intercept, ally or other abilities, I just do everything in my power to keep all the hate directed at me.
However outside of groups I can easly, at 25, solo level 28 1 down arrors and can take 2 yellow level 27 1 downs at once and barley get below half health or 4 to 5 level 26/26 triple dows (Cents in TS). It also doens't take me 10 years to kill a mob like I hear people complaining about all the time either... so at this point, AND THIS MAY CHANGE, I'm still loving my Guardian.
Don't get me wrong, playing the future Warlock is a freakin' blast as is (for now at least) the Cleric (however I may reroll an Inq). At this time though I'm going to continue with the Guardian, if for no other reason but because my guild doesn't have one. All the tanks are currently zerkers, we are a small guild so we don't raid (got burnt on that years ago) but it would be fun to have a meat shield... if I don't get nerfed too much more I guess. However I played a Paladin until 54 in EQ1 only to find myself constantly LFG a couple of months after Kunark. "/tell winnow hey you guys heading Seb? YEA! /tell Winnow Need another? doh... sorry Marb, we really need a tank" - and I use Winnow only because I couldn't think of anyone else at the moment but Paladins just SUCKED ASS... big time. So I rolled a Warrior, 2 boxed my Pally for heals and powerleveled (when I wasn't dealing with a guild crisis) the Warrior up... ONLY to have SOE turn around a few months later and fix Paladins so that they kicked major ass and then they nerfed Warriors! Thus I've been screwed by SOE so many times I expect it... maybe by time I get to 55-60 they will un-nerf guardians.
The last thing I will add though is that I do currently have (what I consider to be) very good equipment. Nos has made me Imbued Steel Legs, Arms and BP with a Helm on the way. I have a Legendary Tower Shield and Axe also. Inspecting other guardians I usually have more HP, do more damage and have a higher AC than any others I have come across within 5 levels of my character. I'm sure that is making a big difference...
Right now I'm having fun... if they nerf guardians I'll just play something else.
Marb
Sure things die quick now as a sorc, and relatively still will when later in game. Gear will play a big part of amount of dmg you will be able to do, especially if you choose warlock. Int plays a big part of how much dmg you do, and power regen items as well to be able to sustain decent kill rate since power regen was nerfed. Solo xp is only that much better than group xp for so long (40-mid40ish it switches) since group xp got a boost and solo/duo xp got a small nerf. Sure being able to solo yellow 3 ups as a 55 warlock is nice and decent exp, but more often than not get passed up for groups for another dps class. Majority of groups now almost always have an enc in them, and most groups will opt for another melee dps or single target caster dps if they have an enc in group. Majority of warlock dps is from our ae's, and face it most enc aren't too thrilled about it. You'll find out eventually that when it comes to aggro, nothing can beat guardian right now for keeping aggro off of you especially if killing multi mob encounters.
Hrm... I've still got 8 or 9 levels to go on the Sorc... are you saying I should choose Wizard instead of Warlock? Not sure what changes they made to each but I'm not sure I would like using AE most of the time... being a tank it's kind of against my nature.
That being said it seems like a guardian, 2 clerics, 2 warlocks and an assasin might be the perfect group. In WoW, as a Shaman, I could group with a Mage and a Priest and we could PL faster than anyone. Priest makes tons of water, I would run and pull like 30 MOBs, come back and drop 3 or 4 totems (including my AE totems) and the Mage would just AE the shit out of everything... I don't think we ever died doing that and were able to get about half a level (in the mid 40s) an hour... not bad, not to mention all the loot.
So my question would be, would the above theoretical group work in EQ2? The tank, healers and warlocks?
Just curious!
Thanks!
Marb
That being said it seems like a guardian, 2 clerics, 2 warlocks and an assasin might be the perfect group. In WoW, as a Shaman, I could group with a Mage and a Priest and we could PL faster than anyone. Priest makes tons of water, I would run and pull like 30 MOBs, come back and drop 3 or 4 totems (including my AE totems) and the Mage would just AE the shit out of everything... I don't think we ever died doing that and were able to get about half a level (in the mid 40s) an hour... not bad, not to mention all the loot.
So my question would be, would the above theoretical group work in EQ2? The tank, healers and warlocks?
Just curious!
Thanks!
Marb
Well, it's funny all the talk about Paladins getting screwed.. since I have no trouble with mine at all XPing. In fact, people comment that I hold agro much better than other tanking classes now because I have an agro siphon spell that takes 25% of the hate from the person I select as the biggest DPS, which helps a ton now that taunt is resisted as often as it succeeds...
All tank classes got shafted, it's like the old shit in EQ when monks became more effective tanking classes for a while. Clerics got hosed too, although they're in much higher demand since you can't kill a Named mob without 2 healers now if using a warrior class to tank it.
Moorgard wouldn't know his fucking ass from his elbow. His idea of testing if Warlocks could really solo heroic mobs effectively was to create one and attempt to do so in CT without ever really having played a wizard before. Gee, I suppose he'd also be a good choice to test if corked bats really give that much power advantage in baseball too.
Like this; Moorgard: Crusaders do have lower physical avoidance, but they have the highest resists to arcane damage types. Against caster mobs, crusaders have an inherent advantage that most people tend to leave out of their parsing. Again, comparing just physical avoidance and mitigation is far from the only way to judge a tank.
Yeah, because caster mobs don't pound you into a fine paste at 90% of the rate of warrior mobs, and like warrior mobs don't effectively cast shit in this messed up world. The only way the percentage of damage a mob does from casting is significant is if the bloody thing casts Ice Comet for 16-20K damage and you're dead then anyway.
All tank classes got shafted, it's like the old shit in EQ when monks became more effective tanking classes for a while. Clerics got hosed too, although they're in much higher demand since you can't kill a Named mob without 2 healers now if using a warrior class to tank it.
Moorgard wouldn't know his fucking ass from his elbow. His idea of testing if Warlocks could really solo heroic mobs effectively was to create one and attempt to do so in CT without ever really having played a wizard before. Gee, I suppose he'd also be a good choice to test if corked bats really give that much power advantage in baseball too.
Like this; Moorgard: Crusaders do have lower physical avoidance, but they have the highest resists to arcane damage types. Against caster mobs, crusaders have an inherent advantage that most people tend to leave out of their parsing. Again, comparing just physical avoidance and mitigation is far from the only way to judge a tank.
Yeah, because caster mobs don't pound you into a fine paste at 90% of the rate of warrior mobs, and like warrior mobs don't effectively cast shit in this messed up world. The only way the percentage of damage a mob does from casting is significant is if the bloody thing casts Ice Comet for 16-20K damage and you're dead then anyway.
May 2003 - "Mission Accomplished"
June 2005 - "The mission isn't easy, and it will not be accomplished overnight"
-- G W Bush, freelance writer for The Daily Show.
June 2005 - "The mission isn't easy, and it will not be accomplished overnight"
-- G W Bush, freelance writer for The Daily Show.
Trouble here is you have two groups of people:Fyredragn wrote:Majority of warlock dps is from our ae's, and face it most enc aren't too thrilled about it.
Warlocks that are too stupid to realise that they shouldn't AE dot in the first round and not allow the Enchanter to lock down the heavy hitter in the encounter until the trash is cleared up.
And Enchanters that insist on mezzing green shit that the warlock would kill in two casts and won't significantly damage the tank.
I group all the time w/ Enc/Warlock, and no trouble at all, other than the Warlock can still pull agro in group encounters regardless of any agro siphon, AE agro spells, etc that I can put out. Rarely gets them killed though, unless they pick on some high blues that have a few more HP than they expect..
May 2003 - "Mission Accomplished"
June 2005 - "The mission isn't easy, and it will not be accomplished overnight"
-- G W Bush, freelance writer for The Daily Show.
June 2005 - "The mission isn't easy, and it will not be accomplished overnight"
-- G W Bush, freelance writer for The Daily Show.
The best use for mezzing is for locking down a named spawn while dealing with adds. At level 50, coercers get a pointblank AE that's roughly 5 times as good as our best nuke, so I have no real problem with AE groups by this point anyway.
Anyway, as far as some triple-up-arrows go, their damage is just ridiculously high. At this point, I always make a point of having two healers, or just use unbreakable roots and make tankless groups entirely.
Anyway, as far as some triple-up-arrows go, their damage is just ridiculously high. At this point, I always make a point of having two healers, or just use unbreakable roots and make tankless groups entirely.
Marbus wrote:Hrm... I've still got 8 or 9 levels to go on the Sorc... are you saying I should choose Wizard instead of Warlock?
It honestly depends on what you want to do with the class you have the most fun playing. As a Warlock, after the Combat Revamp, Sony made the direct damage portion on our ae's more powerful than our Nil Distortion line.. Nil was our nice and juicy DD that made wizards cry. Evidently they cried so much it got nerfed...has a longer casting time now and doesn't do nearly as much damage. My Warlock is only 50 still, like I said earlier in the thread, I have started playing my Warden, because I was so sick of the Combat Changes that happened to the Warlock spell lines.
Before DoF and the CC's, my warlock had almost all master 1's and what wasn't a master 1 was adept 3. I dealt out so much damage on her that no one in the raid could touch me...but how that sadly changes now. Most groups, unless they are messing around in a place like Silent City, that has a lot of down arrow mobs that come in groups, don't want a Warlock ( this is my opinion from my own personal experience
) Our spells all pull too much aggro, and I've played my warlock forever, I know the class and how to manage aggro quite well. It was said that SOE was going to fix the aggro problems and give the tanks stronger taunts and fix the de-aggro spells casters get. The only thing I saw them do was, not fix the range on our ae's and dd's, they didn't fix our de- aggro spells, and they made mobs hit harder and stun which makes it virtually impossible to solo if the mob resists a root spell. They also took out the intelligence stats on our buffs and took our +400 power 10 min buff away (Wicked Gift) . Wizards on the other hand got an extreme boost on their Ice Comet and Ball of Flames (or Fire, cant remember, I hate wizards) and they also got an AE that is comparable in damage and has less of a recast timer to it than the Warlock's lvl 50 Devastation spell. They also got to keep some of the intelligence on their buffs, where as we did not. In this expansion Int = Damage now for casters...SOE screwed us. They wanted to make things "balanced" and all they did was throw us behind the wagon. But then again I've been playing EQ1 and 2 for 5 and a half years now, I expect nothing better than this from them.In the end if I were you, I'd make 2 sorc's...turn one into a warlock and turn one into a wizard...see which one you have the most fun with, and go with that one. The big down side is lvling 2 different characters to 20 + just to see which one you like more. I honestly probably would have went wizard, or maybe a scout dps class..but my warden was close to 50 when I decided it was time to make a change, so I just went with her. Whatever you do, hopefully you'll just play whichever makes you happy...If you do go caster, make an Erudite.. they have lots more Int, over the other classes..also something else Sony lied about
Ciao~