Question about the emergency answer concerning kat hurricane

[Xorian]

Ok, here is a quick question: I saw on a french tv channel than the director of the agency which is in charge of answering in emergency case, had, before he was appointed to this post, no experience at all with emergency situation (was appointed in 2003).

His name is Brown and the reporter said that before he was in charge of an associationwhich was dealing with horses and stallions... is that true?

[Taison Earbiter]

Yah, you're talking about Michael Brown, the director of FEMA. I'm not exactly sure on all the details, but when Bush was elected, he replaced James Lee Witt, who most people considered to be the most effective FEMA director ever, with Joe Allabaugh. Joe Allabaugh brought on his old college roommate Michael Brown (who had recently been fired from to be his job as commisioner of the International Arabian Horse Association) to be his General Counsel at FEMA. About a year after Allabaugh brought Brown on as his counsel, Allabaugh left to set up his own consultancy group, and Brown was promoted to Director of FEMA.

There's a lot more details to the story I'm sure, but thats basically how Brown got to be director of FEMA, with as far as I know, no qualifactions.

[Moonwynd]

Politics aside...Witt was a very competent FEMA director. Brown was a horse trainer that appears to have gotten his job without much in the way of qualifications. I have to do more research though...

[Aabidano]

There's a lot more details to the story I'm sure, but thats basically how Brown got to be director of FEMA, with as far as I know, no qualifactions.

Keep in mind political appointees like this guy don't really need to know anything. It's nice but not essential. As long as he's not a serious obstructionist idiot things will run smoothly. Somewhat like the "bungee bosses" you get in the business world, they bounce in, make some noise and are gone before they can do too much damage.

The govt employees who actually run the show are there long term, they'll still be there when this administration goes.

[Cracc]

A french tv channel?

[Dalmoth_IO]

I do believe that FEMA got gutted for both budget and personell when the dept of homeland security came into being.

Not sure where to verify that however.

[Adex_Xeda]

I'm sure all of this is Bush's fault in some way, you just need to keep digging.

[Lisandre]

You don't really have to dig very far.

Link

A year ago the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers proposed to study how New Orleans could be protected from a catastrophic hurricane, but the Bush administration ordered that the research not be undertaken. After a flood killed six people in 1995, Congress created the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, in which the Corps of Engineers strengthened and renovated levees and pumping stations. In early 2001, the Federal Emergency Management Agency issued a report stating that a hurricane striking New Orleans was one of the three most likely disasters in the U.S., including a terrorist attack on New York City. But by 2003 the federal funding for the flood control project essentially dried up as it was drained into the Iraq war. In 2004, the Bush administration cut funding requested by the New Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers for holding back the waters of Lake Pontchartrain by more than 80 percent. Additional cuts at the beginning of this year (for a total reduction in funding of 44.2 percent since 2001) forced the New Orleans district of the Corps to impose a hiring freeze. The Senate had debated adding funds for fixing New Orleans' levees, but it was too late.

The Bush administration's policy of turning over wetlands to developers almost certainly also contributed to the heightened level of the storm surge. In 1990, a federal task force began restoring lost wetlands surrounding New Orleans. Every two miles of wetland between the Crescent City and the Gulf reduces a surge by half a foot. Bush had promised "no net loss" of wetlands, a policy launched by his father's administration and bolstered by President Clinton. But he reversed his approach in 2003, unleashing the developers. The Army Corps of Engineers and the Environmental Protection Agency then announced they could no longer protect wetlands unless they were somehow related to interstate commerce.

No one is blaming Bush personally for the storm. After all, he isn't a god despite how some people may view him. But isn't it valid to question the policies that may have led to NOLA being unprepared?

[kyoukan]

absolutely not. george w. bush is blameless and your article proves nothing more than your leftist bias.

[miir]

It got me to thinking... has ANYTHING good happened to America since Bush was 'elected'?

[Cartalas]

It got me to thinking... has ANYTHING good happened to America since Bush was 'elected'?

Yeah liberals are pissed off.

[Niffoni]

Holy shit. Cart said something funny

[Nick]

It's been a strange week on VV

[Pherr the Dorf]

"Bureaucracy has murdered people in the greater New Orleans area," he said on CBS'"Early Show.""Take whatever idiot they have at the top of whatever agency and give me a better idiot. Give me a caring idiot. Give me a sensitive idiot. Just don't give me the same idiot."

[Adex_Xeda]

It's just fun to watch people look for anything they can to demonize bush.

Every week it's something new.

Nothing sticks

[Nick]

You miss the entire point.

So much for protecting his own citizens.

Could he have done more? Yes

Should he? Yes

This has already stuck.

It's not like the hurricane is his fault, but there is a degree of responsibility for possibly hundreds if not thousands of extra deaths, and all it would have taken to prevent at least some of those was one order from the LEADER OF THE COUNTRY to get the fucking ball rolling. That, like it or not, is EXACTLY why you have a President after all.

Is that the type of President who deserves support? Maybe I missed something.

[Adex_Xeda]

Hind sight is 20/20, Even the liberal paper the New York Times strongly suggested that Bush not sign that public works bill.

September 04, 2005
The New York Times' short memory

The New York Times is leading the shameless Bush and Republican bashing with respect to the response to Hurricane Katrina. One of its themes is that Congress didn't pay enough attention to flood control in the Gulf. But Donald Luskin reminds us of this bit of wisdom (among others collected by EU Rota) from the Times' editorial page earlier this year:

Anyone who cares about responsible budgeting and the health of America's rivers and wetlands should pay attention to a bill now before the Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works. The bill would shovel $17 billion at the Army Corps of Engineers for flood control and other water-related projects -- this at a time when President Bush is asking for major cuts in Medicaid and other important domestic programs. Among these projects is a $2.7 billion boondoggle on the Mississippi River that has twice flunked inspection by the National Academy of Sciences.

The Government Accountability Office and other watchdogs accuse the corps of routinely inflating the economic benefits of its projects. And environmentalists blame it for turning free-flowing rivers into lifeless canals and destroying millions of acres of wetlands -- usually in the name of flood control and navigation but mostly to satisfy Congress's appetite for pork.

This is a bad piece of legislation.

http://powerlineblog.com/archives/011564.php

[Pherr the Dorf]

"Bureaucracy has murdered people in the greater New Orleans area," he said on CBS'"Early Show.""Take whatever idiot they have at the top of whatever agency and give me a better idiot. Give me a caring idiot. Give me a sensitive idiot. Just don't give me the same idiot."

Key word...agency

[Aabidano]

...but there is a degree of responsibility for possibly hundreds if not thousands of extra deaths, and all it would have taken to prevent at least some of those was one order from the LEADER OF THE COUNTRY to get the fucking ball rolling. That, like it or not, is EXACTLY why you have a President after all.

No it isn't really, that's the governor's responsibility. The National Guard troops belong to her, and she has to pay them in this sort of situation (IIRC). For the most part, federal troops are not alllowed to act within the borders of the country unless specifically requested by the state. Even then they don't generally act in place if law enforcement but as relief workers.

You have to keep distances in perspective. Not slamming Ireland at all, but the governer of LA is in charge of a state roughly the size of your country. The area the feds have to cover runs from the Mexican border into NC, roughly 1400 miles as the crow flies, that's not hugging the coast or taking the 600-800 mile dip into south FL.

Regardless of anything else, they don't know where it's going to hit beforehand. Meaning FEMA and all the other agencies aren't going to be able to do much for 5-7 days. Happens every time. Could the feds lower their response time? Yes, but that not really what they're there for. Immediate response is a local government responsibility.

Given the magnitude of the effort, they didn't do too bad at the federal level. Could it be better?, certainly. Will it be next time? I'd hope so but won't hold my breath either. That's not a good or bad reflection on Bush as he doesn't really have much impact.

Evacuation and immediate support are the responsibility of the residents and the state and local govt. They failed miserably.

[Animale]

But part of the reason that the state agencies failed here was a lack of federal funding for training in large scale natural disaster contingencies. In the past 4 years FEMA has been gutted and most of its emergency leadership and coordination abilities were coopted into the Department of Homeland security. This change in focus is also shown in the funding level, pre 9/11 75% of FEMA's operating budget went to training for natural disasters. Before Katrina that level was ~20%, with the remaining going to train for "terrorist attack" response.

Basically if we had the FEMA of 6+ years ago it wouldn't have been near as bad because it would have had the sole authority for response. Because of the creation of another level of bureaucracy above it, precious time went by before FEMA was able to get permission to take the lead. This was the first major test of the Department of Homeland Security's response to major disasters... it failed miserably. Hopefully we learn from this and make something better suited to respond to ALL emergencies, not just the emergency du jour.

Now, as to the question of "is Bush to blame?" No, like most of the adminstrations failings he is not directly responsible. The system - and the levels of red tape created during his administration - is to blame. Now one should note that the national guard units in Louisiana and Mississippi are currently lacking in manpower due to the Iraqi Occupation, and that is definitely Bush's fault. But, overall, even if those citizen soldiers were present the ultimate failing in administering the federal response would have occurred, although its effects may have been somewhat softened by more authority figures on the ground.

Lets begin the process of rebuilding, and fix what's broken in the federal emergency response practices. While I'm all for blaming Bush when he actually does fail or make poor choices (corporate tax cuts, economic gutting, "Yee-Haw" foreign policy) this is something for which only indirect blame should be placed on him - and that blame should serve as an impetus to fix what's wrong administratively. If, in 6 months nothing has changed, then it will become his fault when it happens again - but not now.

Animale

[Siji]

It's just fun to watch people look for anything they can to demonize bush.

Every week it's something new.

Perhaps because one doesn't have to look very far, at all. Ever.

[Lisandre]

I saw a link to this article today. It's was in National Geographic on October 2004. I think someone over there may be psychic.

It was a broiling August afternoon in New Orleans, Louisiana, the Big Easy, the City That Care Forgot. Those who ventured outside moved as if they were swimming in tupelo honey. Those inside paid silent homage to the man who invented air-conditioning as they watched TV "storm teams" warn of a hurricane in the Gulf of Mexico. Nothing surprising there: Hurricanes in August are as much a part of life in this town as hangovers on Ash Wednesday.

But the next day the storm gathered steam and drew a bead on the city. As the whirling maelstrom approached the coast, more than a million people evacuated to higher ground. Some 200,000 remained, however—the car-less, the homeless, the aged and infirm, and those die-hard New Orleanians who look for any excuse to throw a party.

The storm hit Breton Sound with the fury of a nuclear warhead, pushing a deadly storm surge into Lake Pontchartrain. The water crept to the top of the massive berm that holds back the lake and then spilled over. Nearly 80 percent of New Orleans lies below sea level—more than eight feet below in places—so the water poured in. A liquid brown wall washed over the brick ranch homes of Gentilly, over the clapboard houses of the Ninth Ward, over the white-columned porches of the Garden District, until it raced through the bars and strip joints on Bourbon Street like the pale rider of the Apocalypse. As it reached 25 feet (eight meters) over parts of the city, people climbed onto roofs to escape it.

Thousands drowned in the murky brew that was soon contaminated by sewage and industrial waste. Thousands more who survived the flood later perished from dehydration and disease as they waited to be rescued. It took two months to pump the city dry, and by then the Big Easy was buried under a blanket of putrid sediment, a million people were homeless, and 50,000 were dead. It was the worst natural disaster in the history of the United States.

When did this calamity happen? It hasn't—yet. But the doomsday scenario is not far-fetched. The Federal Emergency Management Agency lists a hurricane strike on New Orleans as one of the most dire threats to the nation, up there with a large earthquake in California or a terrorist attack on New York City. Even the Red Cross no longer opens hurricane shelters in the city, claiming the risk to its workers is too great.

The article is a little too long to post here completely.

[Nick]

Aye, I read that several months ago, and other things like it, it's not exactly been a huge secret this was going to happen at *some* point.

Nature 1 humans 0

[Lisandre]

It's just fun to watch people look for anything they can to demonize bush.

Yeah. Sometimes it is. http://movies.crooksandliars.com/The-Da ... saster.wmv

[Adex_Xeda]

Something I'm rapidly learning about LA is the horrible history of it's political structure. These Levee boards had plenty of money to prepare for a Cat 5 hurricane over the years, but they ended up wasting the money, surplusing the money, repairing non levee items like fountains etc.

Levee boards are pseudo city councils, every levee has a separate board. All of that bloated government just caught up with them.

BTW LA has been totally controled by the Democrats for 60 years. They had 60 years to make liberalism work. They developed a ton people into depending on the government to do things for them. And as you've seen when things get tough all the socialistic ideals fail and people die.

Moral of the story, don't depend on the goverment when it comes an emergency.

I will say that the failure of LA is not totally a socialistic liberal thing. There's a lot of local culture that contributed to this permissiveness of goverment corruption.

[Adex_Xeda]

Also remember that Bush didn't like the idea of a homeland security department.

He fought but later conceeded.

Ms. Clinton voted for it. Even though today she's pushing bills to separate fema from DPS.

She's betting on us having short term memory to appear personally blameless.

[Aabidano]

Something I'm rapidly learning about LA is the horrible history of it's political structure.

The most corrupt city in the most corrupt state in the country. That's saying a lot too compared to places like Chicago and NYC.

They've prided themselves on it for years. Of course it's not their fault though. Evil republicans!

[Adex_Xeda]

There's something else that notice.

History shows that societies aren't very proactive about public saftey.

Bridges only get stronger after one fails.
Fire codes are only rewritten after people die in a fire.
Building codes are strenghtened after a devestating earthquake.

Likewise here with Katrina. There was a 5% chance of this happening, and many folks figured that preparing for a Cat 5 hurricane wasn't a big deal.

Finger pointing at this guy or that guy, such an act ignores the human failure in all of us to react rather than proact.

[Sumdaor]

Adex,

I don't blame bush adminstration or any presidential adminstration for the levee system. I don't know if you have your facts straight about the levee boards being at fault for the levee system though. I don't know the exact cost of upgrading the levee's, but its in the billion's of dollars. That would have to be federal monies.

You can't blame the state for the evacuation after the hurricane. Its a federal disaster area already. The federal goverment should have been there in force. They go caught with thier pants down. Someone(s) is to blame, and Bush is going to be partially responsible either way. Its his cronies running these agencies.

[Nick]

Anyone who still thinks there is a difference between Democrat and Republican at the upper echelons of power in both parties is really not getting it at all.

[Aabidano]

Little bit from Reuters this morning:

New Orleans' own comprehensive emergency plan raises the specter of "having large numbers of people … stranded" and promises "the city … will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas."

"Special arrangements will be made to evacuate persons unable to transport themselves," the plan states.

When Hurricane Katrina hit, however, that plan was not followed completely.

Instead of sending city buses to evacuate those who could not make it out on their own, people in New Orleans were told to go to the Superdome and the Convention Center, where no one provided sufficient sustenance or security.

Apparently the Governor didn't ask for federal help beyond supplies until 2-3 days after the storm either.

[Lisandre]

Moral of the story, don't depend on the goverment when it comes an emergency.

Isn't that one of the primary responsibilities of government, though?

“We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

[cid]

Since Bush is buddies with God, he told himt to stir up a catagory 4 hurricane and to throw it at all the poor black folk in teh big easy. Yes this is all of Bush's fault.

[Nick]

Bleh, I think the point is being lost.

There is responsibility at all levels of the government here, from the New Orleans/Missisipi etc local governments to FEMA to Bush himself.

I think the reason why it's important to be critical of the LEADER of the country is that, the man has thrown nothing but rhetoric to you guys for the last 5 years about how he is protecting you, and we have just seen what his idea of protection actually is after a huge unprecedented catastrophe.

He is being called for the bullshit artist he is, and FEMA are ....well...I can't even believe how fuckin inept and stupid those bastards have been.

Blaming black people for not leaving, blaming poor people for not watching the news or whatever other silly shit has been said on this board really is pathetic because the government as a whole must respond to a situation like New Orleans ASAP and definately shouldn't be sitting on a ranch in Buttfuck texas playing guitar while hundreds (thousands?) more people die.

It's not just Bush's fault, but he, as head of the government is just as fucking responsible, as they say, the buck stops with him.

[nobody]

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007219

Many in the media are turning their eyes toward the federal government, rather than considering the culpability of city and state officials. I am fully aware of the challenges of having a quick and responsive emergency response to a major disaster. And there is definitely a time for accountability; but what isn't fair is to dump on the federal officials and avoid those most responsible--local and state officials who failed to do their job as the first responders. The plain fact is, lives were needlessly lost in New Orleans due to the failure of Louisiana's governor, Kathleen Blanco, and the city's mayor, Ray Nagin.

The actions and inactions of Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin are a national disgrace due to their failure to implement the previously established evacuation plans of the state and city. Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin cannot claim that they were surprised by the extent of the damage and the need to evacuate so many people. Detailed written plans were already in place to evacuate more than a million people. The plans projected that 300,000 people would need transportation in the event of a hurricane like Katrina. If the plans had been implemented, thousands of lives would likely have been saved.

In addition to the plans, local, state and federal officials held a simulated hurricane drill 13 months ago, in which widespread flooding supposedly trapped 300,000 people inside New Orleans. The exercise simulated the evacuation of more than a million residents. The problems identified in the simulation apparently were not solved.

A year ago, as Hurricane Ivan approached, New Orleans ordered an evacuation but did not use city or school buses to help people evacuate. As a result many of the poorest citizens were unable to evacuate. Fortunately, the hurricane changed course and did not hit New Orleans, but both Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin acknowledged the need for a better evacuation plan. Again, they did not take corrective actions. In 1998, during a threat by Hurricane George, 14,000 people were sent to the Superdome and theft and vandalism were rampant due to inadequate security. Again, these problems were not corrected.
The New Orleans contingency plan is still, as of this writing, on the city's Web site, and states: "The safe evacuation of threatened populations is one of the principle [sic] reasons for developing a Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan." But the plan was apparently ignored.

Mayor Nagin was responsible for giving the order for mandatory evacuation and supervising the actual evacuation: His Office of Emergency Preparedness (not the federal government) must coordinate with the state on elements of evacuation and assist in directing the transportation of evacuees to staging areas. Mayor Nagin had to be encouraged by the governor to contact the National Hurricane Center before he finally, belatedly, issued the order for mandatory evacuation. And sadly, it apparently took a personal call from the president to urge the governor to order the mandatory evacuation.

The city's evacuation plan states: "The city of New Orleans will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas." But even though the city has enough school and transit buses to evacuate 12,000 citizens per fleet run, the mayor did not use them. To compound the problem, the buses were not moved to high ground and were flooded. The plan also states that "special arrangements will be made to evacuate persons unable to transport themselves or who require specific lifesaving assistance. Additional personnel will be recruited to assist in evacuation procedures as needed." This was not done.

The evacuation plan warned that "if an evacuation order is issued without the mechanisms needed to disseminate the information to the affected persons, then we face the possibility of having large numbers of people either stranded and left to the mercy of a storm, or left in an area impacted by toxic materials." That is precisely what happened because of the mayor's failure.

Instead of evacuating the people, the mayor ordered the refugees to the Superdome and Convention Center without adequate security and no provisions for food, water and sanitary conditions. As a result people died, and there was even rape committed, in these facilities. Mayor Nagin failed in his responsibility to provide public safety and to manage the orderly evacuation of the citizens of New Orleans. Now he wants to blame Gov. Blanco and the Federal Emergency Management Agency. In an emergency the first requirement is for the city's emergency center to be linked to the state emergency operations center. This was not done.

The federal government does not have the authority to intervene in a state emergency without the request of a governor. President Bush declared an emergency prior to Katrina hitting New Orleans, so the only action needed for federal assistance was for Gov. Blanco to request the specific type of assistance she needed. She failed to send a timely request for specific aid.
In addition, unlike the governors of New York, Oklahoma and California in past disasters, Gov. Blanco failed to take charge of the situation and ensure that the state emergency operation facility was in constant contact with Mayor Nagin and FEMA. It is likely that thousands of people died because of the failure of Gov. Blanco to implement the state plan, which mentions the possible need to evacuate up to one million people. The plan clearly gives the governor the authority for declaring an emergency, sending in state resources to the disaster area and requesting necessary federal assistance.

I am not attempting to excuse some of the delays in FEMA's response. Congress and the president need to take corrective action there, also. However, if citizens expect FEMA to be a first responder to terrorist attacks or other local emergencies (earthquakes, forest fires, volcanoes), they will be disappointed. The federal government's role is to offer aid upon request.

The Louisiana Legislature should conduct an immediate investigation into the failures of state and local officials to implement the written emergency plans. The tragedy is not over, and real leadership in the state and local government are essential in the months to come. More importantly, the hurricane season is still upon us, and local and state officials must stay focused on the jobs for which they were elected--and not on the deadly game of passing the emergency buck.

[Sumdaor]

I understand state and local officials are to blame. When your playing golf while people reports are coming on national tv of people dying what do you expect.

Trying to blame the lack of response on some kind of buracreatic red tape is bullshit.

[Aabidano]

Trying to blame the lack of response on some kind of buracreatic red tape is bullshit.

The red tape in question is one of the fundamental building blocks of our country... States rights have been eroded since the new deal, but are still largely intact.

[Noysyrump]

I understand state and local officials are to blame. When your playing golf while people reports are coming on national tv of people dying what do you expect.

Trying to blame the lack of response on some kind of buracreatic red tape is bullshit.

I was looking for that article about the governor and theres also one that talks about how the food n water got turned around by the LA homeland security office cause they didnt want MORE people goin to the stadium... but im too lazy and nOObish to actually find them... It is 100% buerocratic red tape to blame. And congress is responsible for the buerocracy, not the president. so is it neither Bush's fault or Clinton's. its CONGRESS's fault i say we blow them up... Might wanna blow up the House (of representatives) too, they dont help much!

Payed for by the Bush for Dictator 2008 campaign

[Wulfran]

I just love how so many people keep saying that blame shouldn't be sought while the rescues are still going on yet in their next sentences they invariably choose to slag someone, usually the state and local officials. From the outside it appears that there were mistakes and mismanagement at various levels of the government/process... and the clips of the head of FEMA stating that 3 days of news footage from the N.O. convention center don't count as credible evidence of survivors being there, puts a lie in the notion that there were no fuck ups there too.

I know when lives and homes are lost, there are a lot of answers demanded and anger generated. I just wish the spinning could wait until ater the rescue efforts are done, and that people would be honest and admit the mistakes were all round (and learning and improving the systems to respond) as opposed to looking to solely place blame and play damage control for their political agendas... but your American politicians are no different than our Canadian ones except for their placement on the left-right spectrum.

[Sumdaor]

Yeah, because calling the governor and telling to request medical aid, food/supplies, and transportation, more troops would be way to hard to cut through all that. He shows a complete lack of concern untill the media made it a big deal.

[Lisandre]

And, if this is correct, she did request federal help on Aug. 27th.

[Arborealus]

"I'm not going to play the blame game" is Rove's new campaign...expect to hear it in response to any question to anyone in the administration about culpability...

Blanco did request help prior to the hurricance's landfall...The city did send out buses to various central locations to collect those who could not evacuate...That is how 30k folks got in the superdome...

Have some photos I took Tuesday in Algiers and Harvey on the westbank...I'll get those up in a few...The damage is tremendous...I have never seen anything approaching that scale and severity and that's just trhe small area I saw...six inch steel reinforced concrete light poles snapped...I dunno what the break point on those would be but I'm thinking pretty damn high...

[Boogahz]

And, if this is correct, she did request federal help on Aug. 27th.

ENCLOSURE A TO EMERGENCY REQUEST


Estimated requirements for other Federal agency programs:
• Department of Social Services (DSS): Opening (3) Special Need Shelters (SNS) and establishing (3) on Standby. Costs estimated at $500,000 per week for each in operation.
• Department of Health and Hospitals (DHH): Opening (3) Shelters and establishing (3) on Standby. Costs estimated at $500,000 per week for each in operation.
• Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness (OHSEP): Providing generators and support staff for SNS and Public Shelters. Costs estimated to range from $250,000-$500,000 to support (6) Shelter generator operations.
• Louisiana State Police (LSP): Costs to support evacuations - $300,000 for a non-direct landfall.
• Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries (WLF): Costs to support evacuations - $200,000 for a non-direct landfall.
• Louisiana Department of Transportation and Development (DOTD): Costs to support evacuations - $2,000,000 for a non-direct landfall.


Totals: $ 9,000,000

Estimated Requirements for assistance under the Stafford Act:

Coordination: $0
Technical and advisory assistance: $0
Debris removal: $0
Emergency protective measures: $ 9,000,000
Individuals and Households Program (IHP): $0
Distribution of emergency supplies: $0
Other (specify): $0

Totals: $ 9,000,000
Grand Total: $ 9,000,000

hmm, even though I think they should be sent, I saw nothing requesting federal troops, etc.. I see that shelters/hospitals/generators were needed, and they were requested on the day before landfall. What was missing? I am guessing this is not everything that they sent. Anyone have a link to the Stafford Act? (work and can't google it).

[Dregor Thule]

And, if this is correct, she did request federal help on Aug. 27th.

*waves hand*

These are not the press releases you are looking for.

[Dregor Thule]

hmm, even though I think they should be sent, I saw nothing requesting federal troops, etc.. I see that shelters/hospitals/generators were needed, and they were requested on the day before landfall. What was missing? I am guessing this is not everything that they sent. Anyone have a link to the Stafford Act? (work and can't google it).

I think National Guard assistance is basically mandatory when a state of emergency is declared. Probably not an expense that would be listed there.

[Boogahz]

hmm, even though I think they should be sent, I saw nothing requesting federal troops, etc.. I see that shelters/hospitals/generators were needed, and they were requested on the day before landfall. What was missing? I am guessing this is not everything that they sent. Anyone have a link to the Stafford Act? (work and can't google it).

I think National Guard assistance is basically mandatory when a state of emergency is declared. Probably not an expense that would be listed there.

I think that too, but that's not my point. I want to see it! None of us will ever know what was going on throughout this time period, but I would like to actually know what should have happened (whether it did or didn't). I won't just jump to the same conclusions about stories from either side without actually seeing the documentation for myself.

Arb mentioned that the buses were running evac routes, but I have also heard from people there (currently housed in the Austin convention center and other places) that due to it being on a Sunday, there were only the limited buses available, and they were not running routes through/near any of their neighborhoods. Now, I understand that previously planned evac situations were put together and tested (which failed even then) with use of the bus and school bus system to perform evacs. The plan didn't work in tests, and was supposed to be re-worked. My guess is that they did not work even after the second set of plans were developed (if they were).

[Aslanna]

Here's 2 Timelines...

http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2 ... -timeline/

http://www.thinkprogress.org/katrina-timeline


Press Release on the 27th from the White House
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases ... 827-1.html

Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency

Stafford Act
http://www.ohioema.org/robertt.htm


And in interesting comparison to how the 4 Florida hurricanes were handled last year.
http://www.perrspectives.com/blog/archives/000246.htm

Hurricane Charley in August 2004 saw FEMA, National Guard troops, relief supplies and President Bush on stand by before the storm even made landfall. As the St. Petersburg Times reported on August 17th, 2004, "Governor Jeb Bush sought federal help Friday while Charley was still in the Gulf of Mexico. President Bush approved the aid about an hour after the hurricane made landfall." Cargo planes flew FEMA supplies supplies from a Georgia Air Force base to a staging area in Lakeland, and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers had stockpiled 11 truckloads of water and 14 truckloads of ice. Guy Daines, the former Pinellas County director of emergency services, was pleased and impressed with the rapid response of the National Guard and the delivery of pre-positioned supplies, stating "It amazed me how they got over 4,000 National Guard troops in there that quick. Rather than sit there and react, they are trying to get a jump-start on everything."

FEMA again prepositioned personnel, supplies, and equipment for the Frances, which struck in the first week of September. A FEMA press release offered a laundry list descriptio of preparations for Frances. 30,000 tarps, 100 truckloads of water and 100 truckloads of ice were already in place. Emergency medical teams and four urban search and rescue teams were already in place. By September 6, 900,000 Meals Ready to Eat (MRE's) were stockpiled in Jacksonville. President Bush himself got into the act, distributing ice to Florida hurricane victims with brother Jeb.


This performance was repeated for Ivan and Jeanne, which hit two and three weeks later, respectively. Again, FEMA was in place with food, ice, water, and financial aid in advance of the arrival of the storms. By September 29, FEMA was providing detailed daily updates on its relief eforts, including over $360 million in aid to individuals. This assistance was augmented by the IRS, which granted tax relief for Florida hurricane victims.

[Kylere]

Okay,

Work today actually gave me an insight, I was involved in a sand table exercise with all the county Fire and EMS people and the purpose of the execise was to translate a New Orleans to Biloxi level disaster using the county as the bounds of the exercise, and assuming a 45% loss of roads, a total power loss, no electrical grid being able to be reconnected for weeks, and assuming an inability to mass move anything for weeks. For the purpose of the exercise we assumed that there would be a major blizzard lasting 4 days, followed by an ice storm. Then temps being stuck sub zero for weeks to follow, lwater, sewer and power lines destroyed, roads inpassable, etc.

It is almost impossible to approach, almost every SOP allows for SOMETHING to be available, buildings near the problem area to work from, access to our own equipment, abiliity to travel to the site etc. The best case scenario allowed us to prevent major amounts of cannibalism and only lose 30% of the population.


Until you really think about it, and really work on the details, I am not really surprised they have been overwhelmed, especially since the media played as if NO was going to be okay for the first 24 hours.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

Once something like that hits, there is no good way to make it better quick. You can only minimize the losses. The only way you were going to prevent an enormous amount of deaths in NO was to evacuate. The question then is how do you evacuate that many people, especially when a large majority refuse to leave?

The only thing I could even come up with as an answer is to have National Guard units be ready for immediate deployment under hurricane warnings and when an evacuation call comes that they roll in with as many troop transports as possible to evacuate. The people who refuse to leave can stay and die....and thus wash the government's hands of blame for incidents.

[Kylere]

Funny thing is that it seems no one planned for this level of problem, there were no stockpiles, no backup commo, nothing.

The failure here rests on the LA citizens, local, state, federal government and the LA fire people, police, state police, FEMA, etc. This was such a complete and total fuckup that anyone trying to finger someone else is just trying to absolve their own guilt.