Should the students be blamed for shit security?

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » August 10, 2005, 10:29 am

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0, ... 80,00.html

These kids are being threatened and punished because they used school supplied computers in ways other than what the school say were improper.

The security on the computer was implemented in a piss-poor, half assed way, even by Mac standards, yet they blame the kids instead of themselves for this shitty security being exploited.

From the story, it seems like they've installed desktop based internet filtering software as opposed to a proxy server in the school which anyone with half a brain will know how to turn off or get around.

I'm not saying that what the kids did was ethical or right but they aren't the only ones to blame in this situation.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » August 10, 2005, 11:01 am

Fuck 'em. While I agree the security was shite, it wasn't protecting your bank account, there's no need for it to be tight. There's a lovely white paper from Cisco that explains risk analysis here http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/126/secpol.html#t2

There was no real risk here, just an AUP to attempt to enforce programatically (which was a bad idea in the first place).

I note everyone is keen to blame the IT staff when this kind of bullshit comes down from management, (do you think the IT staff needed to tape the password to the back of the computers, really?)

Felony charges are an over-reaction, but that would be the education system's fault to a degree in that they probably have no other recourse other than asking them to stop, again.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » August 10, 2005, 11:08 am

Why do people always want to blame everyone bu the perpetrator of acts? Fucking idiots need to start taking responsibility for their own goddamn actions.

Aruman · Post by **Aruman** » August 10, 2005, 11:32 am

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:Why do people always want to blame everyone bu the perpetrator of acts? Fucking idiots need to start taking responsibility for their own goddamn actions.

Felony charges might be extreme, but this is the key to this whole issue:

It points out that students and parents were required to sign a code of conduct and acceptable use policy, which contained warnings of legal action.

Even if what the students did wasn't malicious, if what they did violated this policy that they signed, then there is no excuse.

They got caught 'not stopping completely at a stop sign, or exceeding the speed limit', so they will have to be responsible for their actions.

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » August 10, 2005, 11:44 am

Why felonies are a bit extreme, they fully deserved police action.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » August 10, 2005, 11:55 am

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:Why do people always want to blame everyone bu the perpetrator of acts? Fucking idiots need to start taking responsibility for their own goddamn actions.

So if your bank put up all it's customer's information in a password protected access database on their web servers you'd be ok with that and the only ones at fault would be the ones that downloaded the file and cracked the password to the file?

The students are at fault here for breaking the rules, that's a fact. However school administrators and IT staff have their share of blame in this for making it so goddamned easy to do.

EULA's only stop the honest people from doing something illegal...

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » August 10, 2005, 12:01 pm

I wont feel bad if they get a felony, what they did was wrong and they knew it. I wouldn't blame IT either unless of course they don't do anything to counter what these kids have done now.

Blaming IT would be like blaming the guy that made the Stop sign if you dont come to a complete stop.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » August 10, 2005, 12:28 pm

Animalor wrote:
Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:Why do people always want to blame everyone bu the perpetrator of acts? Fucking idiots need to start taking responsibility for their own goddamn actions.
So if your bank put up all it's customer's information in a password protected access database on their web servers you'd be ok with that and the only ones at fault would be the ones that downloaded the file and cracked the password to the file?

The students are at fault here for breaking the rules, that's a fact. However school administrators and IT staff have their share of blame in this for making it so goddamned easy to do.

EULA's only stop the honest people from doing something illegal...

Well yes. There is absolutely nothing that will stop everyone from being able to access it. When someone wants in, they will find a way somehow. If we would start handing out stiff punishments that people feared, then shit would stop happening so frequently.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » August 10, 2005, 4:54 pm

The students are at fault here for breaking the rules, that's a fact. However school administrators and IT staff have their share of blame in this for making it so goddamned easy to do.

Do you blame the government or the gun producers when somebody shoots and kills somebody else?

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » August 10, 2005, 4:57 pm

Felony is ridiculas... they really didn't do anything wrong but make the staff look like morons. Hell could have done the same back in the early 80s but instead the district as my friend and I to help them teach the class...

Did the kids do something wrong? Yes and should be punished. It is as bad as manslaughter? uh... no.

Bottom line is the staff now feels like those students have bigger dicks than they do so they have to react to prove their manhood.

Marb

Niffoni · Post by **Niffoni** » August 10, 2005, 5:03 pm

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » August 10, 2005, 5:48 pm

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » August 10, 2005, 6:06 pm

I do not have to RTFA in this case, the IS people put what was probably their only optyion as directed by some dumbass MBA on the systems, and the kids abused it. Screw the kids, give the IS department better training and support.

Oh look he made it easy to rob his house by having glass windows, it is his fault we robbed it.

Sylvos · Post by **Sylvos** » August 10, 2005, 6:11 pm

I disagree, just because a bank leaves its vault open doesn't mean I can steal it and not be punished for robbing it and only have the bank teller be held accountable.
These kids knew exactly what the fuck they were doing, they deserve everything they get.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » August 10, 2005, 6:36 pm

Maybe I misread it but they didn't steal or take anything...

The mad the IT dept looks stupid by locking them out of some of their computers and surfed porn, big freakin' whoop.

Marb

Janx · Post by **Janx** » August 10, 2005, 6:45 pm

The problem stems from using Apple products...

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » August 10, 2005, 7:41 pm

I don't think anyone is disagreeing that they shouldn't "do the time". I think the disagreement comes from the fact that some don't think the 'time' fits the 'crime'.

Of course all our information is coming from that article. So... Will break it down based on that:

a group of high schoolers charged with felonies for bypassing security with school-issued laptops, downloading forbidden internet goodies and using monitoring software to spy on district administrators.

Bypassing security: Not a felony (I would assume). However, it's school property so "computer trespass, an offense state law defines as altering computer data, programs or software without permission" fits. State law probably classifies it as a felony.

Downloading forbidden internet goodies: That's fairly broad. If it was copyrighted information that could be a felony. If it was just iChat software then no... Not a felony.

Using monitoring software to spy on admins: That could potentially be a felony in this day and age.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » August 10, 2005, 7:58 pm

I am all for punishing them. I am sick and tired of "rewarding creativity" to assholes who are no better than others who simply follow this thing called the law. Tired of reading about "hackers" (and that term is used WAY too broadly) getting high-paying security jobs after breaking into systems. And I am tired of the lack of responsibility people take for their own damn actions.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » August 10, 2005, 8:15 pm

Kelshara wrote:Do you blame the government or the gun producers when somebody shoots and kills somebody else?

the guy that pulled the trigger.

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » August 11, 2005, 11:18 am

THEY DOWNLOADED ICQ AND ONE KID MIGHT HAVE SAW A BOOBIE OH NO