The new Hunter skill tree

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » August 2, 2005, 1:22 pm

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/cla ... lents.html

It looks pretty good. Wyvern Sting is a decent 7th tier addition to survival. Although, I still think Spirit Bond should scale with lvl or HPs. Perhaps a % per strike. Sure, it's great at lvls 40-50ish, but in the higher end dungons 20HP per strike just dosen't cut it.

Anyone know what class is next for revamp?

miir · Post by **miir** » August 2, 2005, 1:30 pm

Druid.

Feral and Balance need some serious work.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » August 2, 2005, 2:10 pm

I don't think anything that Blizzard will do to the Feral Tree and Balance tree will outweight the contributions that a Restoration specced Druid can bring to a group/Raid.

Now if they moved Innervate to a druid spell instead of a talent and added a quick Heal (a la Flash Heal) or a non-component, use whenever you like Rez at the bottom of the Restoration tree, then Druids would be set and could realistically choose balance or Feral as a spec.

miir · Post by **miir** » August 2, 2005, 2:27 pm

Innervate is really only useful to cast on shadow priests who are too fucking stupid to understand the concept of mana-management.

They should just change it to self-only and make the balance/feral trees not suck.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » August 2, 2005, 2:33 pm

God forbids druids should have non-suck DPS!

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » August 2, 2005, 2:58 pm

miir wrote:Innervate is really only useful to cast on shadow priests who are too fucking stupid to understand the concept of mana-management.

They should just change it to self-only and make the balance/feral trees not suck.

We use Innervate on priests extensively in MC during boss fights. A priest with 2 bars of mana is a lot more useful than a priest with just 1. We have 4-5 Restoration druids on average per raid.

Anyone who plays a Shadow Priest past 60 in PvE Raids is, by definition, fucking stupid.

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » August 2, 2005, 3:11 pm

I think the druid skills are just fine. I do like the suggestion of a quick heal to replace Innervate though.

Remember, druids are a utility class (backup in any type of situation).
When was the last time a mage/warlock could keep your group alive with healing, or a priest offtank an elite mob?

Gamei · Post by **Gamei** » August 2, 2005, 3:15 pm

Wyvern Sting is a fucking joke.

Out of combat only, requires 8-35 yds? Yeah the tooltip reads nice but how the hell do you think it would work in game.

How many times do you get the jump on two people so that the cc of wyv is useful?

How many times do you get jumped without a trap down and say to yourself 'boy I wouldn't fucking suck a huge cock if I had an instant cast strike that's melee range that put someone to sleep for 12 seconds then dotted them, also it better not get fucking broken by wotf or I'm going to murder the blizzard devs'

I thought it every day on my hunter, I swear.

Deneve · Post by **Deneve** » August 2, 2005, 3:43 pm

Hijack-
I might be beating a dead horse here, but as a warlock i am still exasperated that i effectively have 1/5th less inventory space than everyone else because i need to be perpetually farming shards that will not stack in order to play the game. At least give us an additional "shard only" bag, or set a limit of 20 shards and let them stack in multiples of 5 or something. Or how about just making a DoT style debuff that gives us a shard when they die...for fuck's sake...

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » August 2, 2005, 4:32 pm

They're working on the shard bag. Chillax man!

Quarkk · Post by **Quarkk** » August 2, 2005, 4:57 pm

1/5th less the space than anyone else!? What about hunters and their gimp quivers? And heaven forbid if the hunter has a fast bow/gun... then you need even more shot! GRahsdfash

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » August 2, 2005, 5:41 pm

I think any class can apply that thought. Druids need mulitple sets of gear with them if they happen to be Feral. Also any trade skill people who have stuff like Herbalism or Enchanting have no room due to all the componants. Good thing Vanguard is going to be all about your mobile Bank called a Horse.

Ajran · Post by **Ajran** » August 2, 2005, 6:19 pm

Fairweather Pure wrote:http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/cla ... lents.html

It looks pretty good. Wyvern Sting is a decent 7th tier addition to survival. Although, I still think Spirit Bond should scale with lvl or HPs. Perhaps a % per strike. Sure, it's great at lvls 40-50ish, but in the higher end dungons 20HP per strike just dosen't cut it.

Anyone know what class is next for revamp?

It does scale if you buy the additional ranks at the trainer.. mine does 40hp per strike at the moment.. to small still but it does scale.

Diae Soulmender · Post by **Diae Soulmender** » August 2, 2005, 6:21 pm

5/31/15 will be my build with new talents.

Currently Im 0/31/20 and ...content I suppose.

Perhaps, after I play around with the new talents I may go BM or Survival more, but for now I really only care about Marksmanship.

Now, all of this may change if/when we see Pet Skills and perhaps other Hunter Skills. Who knows... /shrug. right now pet survivability in raids are almost non-existant thus making 1/4-1/3 of our over all DPS simply vanish due to the lack of our pets ability to actually 'survive'. If they fix pets to make them live longer perhaps Ill go BM/Marks, but for now at least I know I can rely on my Marksmanship.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » August 2, 2005, 8:10 pm

I am presently 31 Marks, 20 Survival and geared for crits, but I think the new changes will see me respecced to the reverse of that, in order to maximize crit chance and grab the AG boost. The loss of Hawkeye and ranged combat specialization hurt, but the added crit %, HP, and FD tweaks in survival more than make up for that. I don't care about PvP, so Wyv is loads better than Scattershot. With that and ice trap enhancements, a descent hunter can keep two adds out of the fight for a good 30 seconds or more.

Edit: Here is my planned build for 1.7 patch. I really wish the parry chance and 2 point trap enhancers were switched around, but there is no contest between trap enhancement and Sure Footed, so there I am. If the FD resist talent turns out to be crap, then Ill divert those points into the extended trap duration.

Gamei · Post by **Gamei** » August 3, 2005, 1:32 am

I don't care about PvP, so Wyv is loads better than Scattershot. With that and ice trap enhancements, a descent hunter can keep two adds out of the fight for a good 30 seconds or more

Bzzzt.

If something adds while you're fighting you can't use Wyv Sting. It's out of combat only.

You'd have to pull with it, which is still kind of useful(maybe) but once the 12 seconds are up it's dotted and can't be re-cc'd.

It's a load of horse shit. Giving hunters an emergency CC is a great idea, but out of combat only is utterly retarded. It also has a cast time equal to your attack speed, so there you go.

Stupid fucking talent designers. It's also a bunch of crap that you can't max frenzy and get the double pet damage talent with only 31 points in BM. How can shit like that be overlooked in internal testing?

Edit: Ok the last comment appears to be incorrect, but you have to go without regen focus and pet armor(or +dodge) in order to do it. Meh.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » August 3, 2005, 1:53 am

Thats true if you don't use FD to get yourself out of combat, but Im sure you haven't played a hunter for 60 levels without realizing that. Also, 12 seconds (which is the rank one of the skill) is still vastly superior to Scatter Shot. The DoT is in there to prevent Chain CC, but you can still lock out a mob almost a full two minutes with my build (Freeze trap, FD retrap, Pop refresh, FD again, Freeze Trap again or Wyvern depending on what the situation calls for) which is vastly superior to what is possible with Scatter Shot under current trees.

Also, pets are useless for endzone work and if you are CC/Pulling, so I could care dick about the Bowel Movement Tree.

Gamei · Post by **Gamei** » August 3, 2005, 2:01 am

If you're pure PvE I can see where you're coming from, but I likes my PvP and can't help but look at it that way.

I still have issues with hunters being forced to cheese FD to get combat flag dropped in order to use a 31 point talent.

Didn't blizzard once bitch about people using FD in order to drop chain traps?

Either way, having to stop being dps for a second or few in order to use a 31 point talent sucks ass, pve included!

Has there been any mention of the scaling for the skill? If it does scale nicely with the dot and and the cc that'd help a lot, but the out of combat shit still irks the christ out of me.

And just when I thought the christ had left me completely I get more pulled out of me. =(

Crav · Post by **Crav** » August 3, 2005, 4:50 am

Honestly I don't see how people can be complaining about the new talents. I mean sure the 31 talent isn't godly, but come on with the new survival build you can end up with something like 6% crit and 6% damage on almost everything (dragons, beast, giants, humanoids), 3% hit ( just for reference the MC scope is for the same amount ), 10% extra hps ( yay add that to my 5% for Tauren), and 15% to agility. Oh and you can cc something for 12 seconds.

The new BM talents are also pretty damn good, although I am not going to build that way, I know at least two people who are though.

More than likely depending on more details on the upgrades for some of the talents I'll probably go with this build. Btw the best skill in the current survival talents is entrapment, both for pvp and pve.

If TS goes up to 150 atk then I'll probably go 0/31/20 instead.

Gemily · Post by **Gemily** » August 3, 2005, 7:13 am

miir wrote:Innervate is really only useful to cast on shadow priests who are too fucking stupid to understand the concept of mana-management.

They should just change it to self-only and make the balance/feral trees not suck.

Wrong, we use Innervate frequeltly in boss fights too.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » August 3, 2005, 9:51 am

Bah. Druid Talent Revamp won't be in 1.7.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 1#blizzard

Nilaman · Post by **Nilaman** » August 3, 2005, 10:29 am

To be honest, I am really impressed with how they switched up Beast Mastery. I like the new look of it, any soloing hunter or someone still leveling up will kick a lot of ass with it.

The Survival tree is nice too. Lots of eye candy there. I like crits. I like AGI. More HP is awesome too. It looks like a nice PVP build for people who still consider pets worthless.

The Marksmanship tree really disappoints me. Not a whole lot was changed. I don't think any raiding hunter will argue the value of Hawk Eye. I wish they would lower the requirements for Hawk Eye. Maybe 5 points in Marks before you can buy it.

I am 20 Beast/31 Marks. I don't think that will change with this patch. I try to do as much DPS as I can. My build is for damage. Anything the *new* Trueshot Aura gives me is only replacing what I lost in ATK from IAoHawk. I love the new haste spell though. I wish they would have looked over the Marks tree a little better. Some things could be seriously tweaked.

I really like some of these new talents we get, but I can not sacrifice my Hawk Eye for them. I hope they give a look at Marksmanship a bit better. TS giving +100 ATK is good, but anyone with IAoHawk only gains like 18 ATK bonus from it all if you take into consideration that IAoHawk no longer grants ATK. I could care less about the lower mana cost because the spell lasts 30 minutes. Improved range is nice on it but I didn't buy the spell to buff melee - fuck em.

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » August 3, 2005, 10:48 am

Are you kidding? Are you? Do you remember what was fucking in that slot before?

Wynvern Sting is infinately more badass.

Gamei wrote:Wyvern Sting is a fucking joke.

Out of combat only, requires 8-35 yds? Yeah the tooltip reads nice but how the hell do you think it would work in game.

How many times do you get the jump on two people so that the cc of wyv is useful?

How many times do you get jumped without a trap down and say to yourself 'boy I wouldn't fucking suck a huge cock if I had an instant cast strike that's melee range that put someone to sleep for 12 seconds then dotted them, also it better not get fucking broken by wotf or I'm going to murder the blizzard devs'

I thought it every day on my hunter, I swear.

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » August 3, 2005, 1:58 pm

Are you kidding? Are you? Do you remember what was fucking in that slot before?

Wynvern Sting is infinately more badass.

It sure is, but still falls short. I can see it being very useful in hitting instance dungeons for crown control on the initial pull....but and adds after that, fahgetaboutit!
I'm fairly certain that blizz will "fix" the trap cooldown timer reset when feigning, which would more than offset any advantage that Wynern sting gave. Plus, we still have that minimal range to deal with. Wynvern sting is in survival, and does nothing much in changing the fact that we are little weaklings when a warrior or rogue gets right up in our grill.
I personally would like to see scatter shot act for a little longer than 4 seconds...that would rock. and maybe a talent that reduces the cooldown...but even that is just a band aid for the fact that we suck in melee.
oh, and let us not forget that they "fixed" the trap resist bug, that we now have to spent talent points on if we want to reduce it!

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » August 3, 2005, 2:46 pm

They are not going to "fix" the FD trap thing, by their own admission. I think the fact that the reset talent in survival affects trap and FD cooldowns is pretty indicative of that. Also, Hawkeye is nice, but there is really only one AE in the game atm that the extra 6 yards gets you aways from, which makes the loss of the AGI bonus and such in survival just not worth it to me, personally. I think the reason Marksman got left alone is because it was just plain too fucking good compared to the other two trees, no matter what you were doing. At least now there is some options for the solo hunter (BM/survival), the PvE DPS Bot Hunter (MM/Surv), the PvP hunter (Marks/BM), the puller (Surv/MM), or the instance CC master hunter (Survival/BM). Before it was MM/BM or MM/Survival and that was all there was.

Nilaman · Post by **Nilaman** » August 3, 2005, 7:02 pm

Hawk eye helps me avoid more then one AE. Not sure which AE you are talking about, but I can avoid all kinds!

masteen · Post by **masteen** » August 3, 2005, 7:03 pm

How is Beast Mastery a PvP talent tree? Pets suck against PCs.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » August 3, 2005, 7:39 pm

You've obviously never seen a souped up swamp jaguar chew a caster a new one.

Trias · Post by **Trias** » August 3, 2005, 8:21 pm

needle cougar ftw!

Gamei · Post by **Gamei** » August 3, 2005, 9:59 pm

Yes, wyvern sting is infinitely better than lacerate could have dreamed of being.

That's totally beside the point, though, and exactly how you shouldn't compare it. The skill has a very limited usage compared to most 31 point talents and while it will be great in certain situations it still lags behind shit like innervate or shadow form or MS or adrenal rush or basically any other 31 pt talent. =p

Also I do agree the wholesale change of the survival tree rules. It's a far better tree in general now, but I still think wyvern sting should be usable in combat. 12 seconds is obviously 'emergency' cc but they slapped an out of combat tag on it which just strikes me as really stupid. =p

And I still dislike the idea of hunters having to FD in order to use a 31 pt talent. I dislike it very much.

BM's 31 point talent will most likely rule in pvp. =p If it works right, at least!

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » August 4, 2005, 7:55 pm

Nilaman wrote:Hawk eye helps me avoid more then one AE. Not sure which AE you are talking about, but I can avoid all kinds!

Knock down effects for sure!!

VariaVespasa · Post by **VariaVespasa** » August 6, 2005, 6:09 pm

Shrug, my pet survives in MC pretty well. Only the bosses really give it any issues, and those are where a hunters petless dps adds up the most which counterbalances it, so it doesnt bother me. Anything lesser raids than MC and my pet doesnt have any problems at all really.

*Hugs*
Varia

VeeshanVault

The new Hunter skill tree

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