House Approves Flag-Burning Amendment By LAURIE KELLMAN, Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON - The House on Wednesday approved a constitutional amendment that would give Congress the power to ban desecration of the American flag, a measure that for the first time stands a chance of passing the Senate as well.
By a 286-130 vote — eight more than needed — House members approved the amendment after a debate over whether such a ban would uphold or run afoul of the Constitution's free-speech protections.
Approval of two-thirds of the lawmakers present was required to send the bill on to the Senate, where activists on both sides say it stands the best chance of passage in years. If the amendment is approved in that chamber by a two-thirds vote, it would then move to the states for ratification.
Supporters said the measure reflected patriotism that deepened after the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, and they accused detractors of being out of touch with public sentiment.
"Ask the men and women who stood on top of the (World) Trade Center," said Rep. Randy (Duke) Cunningham, R-Calif. "Ask them and they will tell you: pass this amendment."
But Rep. Jerrold Nadler (news, bio, voting record), D-N.Y., said, "If the flag needs protection at all, it needs protection from members of Congress who value the symbol more than the freedoms that the flag represents."
The measure was designed to overturn a 1989 decision by the Supreme Court, which ruled 5-4 that flag burning was a protected free-speech right. That ruling threw out a 1968 federal statute and flag-protection laws in 48 states. The law was a response to anti-Vietnam war protesters setting fire to the American flag at their demonstrations.
The proposed one-line amendment to the Constitution reads, "The Congress shall have power to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States." For the language to be added to the Constitution, it must be approved not only by two-thirds of each chamber but also by 38 states within seven years.
Each time the proposed amendment has come to the House floor, it has reached the required two-thirds majority. But the measure has always died in the Senate, falling short of the 67 votes needed. The last time the Senate took up the amendment was in 2000, when it failed 63-37.
But last year's elections gave Republicans a four-seat pickup in the Senate, and now proponents and critics alike say the amendment stands within a vote or two of reaching the two-thirds requirement in that chamber.
By most counts, 65 current senators have voted for or said they intend to support the amendment, two shy of the crucial tally. More than a quarter of current senators were not members of that chamber during the last vote.
The Senate is expected to consider the measure after the July 4th holiday.
Now.. I've never felt the need to burn a flag.. But this is a dumb ammendment.
"Ask the men and women who stood on top of the (World) Trade Center," said Rep. Randy (Duke) Cunningham, R-Calif. "Ask them and they will tell you: pass this amendment."
This has to be the most ridiculous statement I've heard in a very long time.
Because firemen and paramedics are the ones we should have running the country.
"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt
I believe I speak for the entire rest of the world when I say "LOL, u guys r so gay".
Last edited by Niffoni on June 22, 2005, 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all. - Douglas Adams
"Ask the men and women who stood on top of the (World) Trade Center," said Rep. Randy (Duke) Cunningham, R-Calif. "Ask them and they will tell you: pass this amendment."
That seriously made me laugh out loud.
I suppose they could start using that phrase when they want to pass any amendment...
Want to pass an amendment making it legal to huntand kill liberals? Claim that the men and women who stood on top of the World Trade Center would tell you : Pass this amendment.
How about making homosexuality illegal?
Saddam Hussein would tell you : don't pass this amendment!
The possibilities are endless!
I've got 99 problems and I'm not dealing with any of them - Lay-Z
I wonder what is going to happen when you start realise that people don't always fit into the stereotypes that have been spoonfed to you by your 'non biased' conservative think tanks?
I've got 99 problems and I'm not dealing with any of them - Lay-Z
Stupid amendment, hopefully it dies somewhere along the process (although at least on the up side its probably less harmful than quite a few things that they could be doing during that time).
An advocacy group that supports the amendment says reported "flag desecration incidents" in the U.S. declined last year. To one. Regardless of how far the measure goes, which I doubt will be very far at all, burning a flag just isn't a very popular or interesting form of dissent.
I only hope the Democrats have enough support to filibuster this shit forever. This is right up there with the gay marriage amendment.
"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt
I wonder what is going to happen when you start realise that people don't always fit into the stereotypes that have been spoonfed to you by your 'non biased' conservative think tanks?
Statements like this can be reversed by changing one word... and still be accurate.
I wonder what that word might be?
"Or else... what?"
"Or else, We will be very, very angry with you, and we will write you a letter telling you how angry we are..."
This is fucking retarded. I hope this gets shot down before the Supreme Court has to get involved and let the legislative branch (the same legislative branch who has BETTER THINGS TO DO) know that an amendment like this violates the bill of rights.
I'm by no means in favor of flag burning, but I am 100% for being able to do so if you choose to.
Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.
That's a valid point Noel, isn't it an infringement of freedom of expression? It's not like burning a flag actually hurts anyone physically (apart from possibly the person burning it)
Odd that burning is the preferred method for disposing of American flags that are no longer "fit for public display".
So, what if you get an old, tattered, faded, beat up flag and burn it in public and say that you were just disposing of it in the traditionally recognized manner?
noel wrote:This is fucking retarded. I hope this gets shot down before the Supreme Court has to get involved and let the legislative branch (the same legislative branch who has BETTER THINGS TO DO) know that an amendment like this violates the bill of rights.
An amendment is a change to the constitution, and that can include the Bill of Rights.
noel wrote:This is fucking retarded. I hope this gets shot down before the Supreme Court has to get involved and let the legislative branch (the same legislative branch who has BETTER THINGS TO DO) know that an amendment like this violates the bill of rights.
An amendment is a change to the constitution, and that can include the Bill of Rights.
You're correct, but changing any of the first 10 amendments of the constitution seems to be folly to me.
Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.
Hoarmurath wrote:Odd that burning is the preferred method for disposing of American flags that are no longer "fit for public display".
So, what if you get an old, tattered, faded, beat up flag and burn it in public and say that you were just disposing of it in the traditionally recognized manner?
Because you obviously do not know the correct method.
It isn't just burning it whole, and anyone who knows the proper method would easily be able to tell the difference.
"Or else... what?"
"Or else, We will be very, very angry with you, and we will write you a letter telling you how angry we are..."
noel wrote:This is fucking retarded. I hope this gets shot down before the Supreme Court has to get involved and let the legislative branch (the same legislative branch who has BETTER THINGS TO DO) know that an amendment like this violates the bill of rights.
An amendment is a change to the constitution, and that can include the Bill of Rights.
You're correct, but changing any of the first 10 amendments of the constitution seems to be folly to me.
At 3 bucks a pop they're a lot cheaper than running the damn heater all the time. I'd use the canadian one, but I already use that to wash my windows.
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all. - Douglas Adams
Nick wrote:I think the US forgets sometimes that it wasn't just Americans who died on 9/11.
I think sometimes the rest of the world forgets that it wasn't just Americans who died on 9/11.
We know, we just have a sense of proportion.
May 2003 - "Mission Accomplished"
June 2005 - "The mission isn't easy, and it will not be accomplished overnight"
-- G W Bush, freelance writer for The Daily Show.
well the longer your bloodthirsty government wastes their time on voting on insignificant crap like this the less time they have to focus on invading sovereign nations and killing civilians, so I'm all for it.
it's not like they don't routinely wipe their ass with the constitution already, while the rest of you keep voting them in as long as they blurt out more empty promises to outlaw fags and muslims.
"Ask the men and women who stood on top of the (World) Trade Center," said Rep. Randy (Duke) Cunningham, R-Calif. "Ask them and they will tell you: pass this amendment."
Gotta love the schmucks who wrap themselves in the flag and lambast all those who fail to do the same as being unpatriotic or un-American. Especially hate the sniveling bitches who caved in under pressure to preserve their political careers.
You are right Seebs, the current administration aren't Republicans... that is one of the reasons I tryed so hard to get people to listen but "value voters" won out... as I have said before, the next 3.5 years aren't going to be pretty.
noel wrote:This is fucking retarded. I hope this gets shot down before the Supreme Court has to get involved and let the legislative branch (the same legislative branch who has BETTER THINGS TO DO) know that an amendment like this violates the bill of rights.
I'm by no means in favor of flag burning, but I am 100% for being able to do so if you choose to.
If its a constitutional ammendment I dont think the Supreme Court *can* get involved, can they? They only deal with laws, their interpretation and constitutionality, not the constitution itself. Indeed, constitutional ammendments are the check on the Supreme Courts power if I understand correctly.
I believe the Supreme Courts make rulings based on the Constitution but do not have the power to overturn an amendment. Which means that if this amendment passes, they would end up being the final word on what desecration to the flag actually is.
I am still more in favor of just administering ass kickings to people that burn the flag rather than waste jail space. Now if they want to fine people heavily for laws already on the books , then that would be wonderful.
I come from a fairly long line of military service in my family. I was raised to respect the flag and it always kind of hits me when I see one burning. I realize it is just a piece of cloth but a lot of people just don't realize that it is a symbol for the great things in US history. If you have ever studied what the colors actually symbolize, you will know that red represents the blood of America. I am an agnostic but I always felt a sort of spiritual bond with the flag. That being said I don't believe flag burning should be banned but I really don't understand why people do it. Right after 9/11, my wife and I found a half burned flag tied to a fence at a local park. I cut it down and gave it the respect it represented in my views.
Now if you think my views are weird then imagine what some fucked-up southern redneck is thinking.
shread it
pee on it
use it to wash you car
dry the dishes
what about people that use newspaper to light fires ... pictures of the flag?
disposable table clothes with the flag on it?
i feel the dictatorship taking hold in america ....
While I dont agree with burning the flag, I dont agree with this bill either. If someone wants to burn the flag so be it, but if I want to grab a fire extinguisher and put it out so be it.
To myself, and a millions of other Americans out there, it is a giant slap in the face. The price of freedom is not free, yet so many people seem to think it is.
Morgrym wrote:To myself, and a millions of other Americans out there, it is a giant slap in the face. The price of freedom is not free, yet so many people seem to think it is.
I eagerly await a tortured attempt to tenuously link this statement in any way to the issue at hand. Please have it on my desk by 4:30.
If you burn the flag, you're probably a dumb attention-seeking prick. But last time I checked, that wasn't against the law. Shit, you'd have to lock up most of the first world if it were.
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all. - Douglas Adams
Morgrym wrote:To myself, and a millions of other Americans out there, it is a giant slap in the face. The price of freedom is not free, yet so many people seem to think it is.
And that plays right into the hands of the protestors and attention whores who partake in flag burning.
What is going to get more attention?
A group of people protesting with chants and placards... or a rodwdy group of protestors burning a flag while chanting and waving placards?
I'm willing to bet the type of person who gets thier knickers in a twist about flag burning is the same type of person who would dismiss the 'desecration' of the quran (that was in the news recently) as ridiculous or silly.
I've got 99 problems and I'm not dealing with any of them - Lay-Z
I don't think the defacing of anything symbolic or holy of any nation down to the smallest cult to be something I would overlook. I guess it's just me /shrug
I find it kind of ridiculous that anyone gives a shit about someone burning a flag. It's just a fucking flag! Do you support someone's right to say "Fuck the United States!"? If yes, how is that any different? It's pretty much just a semantics issue, both actions are saying the same thing. If no, then you need to step back and re-evaluate your motivation for being a "Patriot".
Besides, if people didn't hoot and holler when someone burned a flag, burning flags would get old pretty quick. Flag burners are only doing it to bother you.
"It's like these guys take pride in being ignorant."- Barack Obama
Hoarmurath wrote:Odd that burning is the preferred method for disposing of American flags that are no longer "fit for public display".
So, what if you get an old, tattered, faded, beat up flag and burn it in public and say that you were just disposing of it in the traditionally recognized manner?
Because you obviously do not know the correct method.
It isn't just burning it whole, and anyone who knows the proper method would easily be able to tell the difference.
According to US Code Title 4, Chapter 1, Paragraph 8, sub-paragraph (k):
"The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning."
But you're saying that there is a super secret squirrel club method that only certain people are privy to, and the rest of us are just idiots? Can you enlightem us, or is it so secret that you are barred from discussing it in public?
