Texas: 19yo gets life for helping gf end pregnancy..

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » June 7, 2005, 4:59 pm

http://www.channel3000.com/news/4577721/detail.html

Teen Gets Life Sentence For Helping Girlfriend End Pregnancy
19-Year-Old Stepped On Stomach While Girl Punched Self

POSTED: 6:44 am CDT June 7, 2005

LUFKIN, Texas -- A 19-year-old East Texas man faces a life prison sentence for causing his teenage girlfriend to miscarry twins, even though she wanted to end the pregnancy.

Gerardo Flores was accused of causing the miscarriage by stepping on his girlfriend's stomach. He was prosecuted under the state's new fetal protection law.

Erica Basoria acknowledged asking Flores to help end her pregnancy. But the 17-year-old can't be prosecuted because of her legal right to abortion.

The defense contended that Basoria punched herself while Flores was stepping on her, making it impossible to tell who killed the twins.

The jury reached a verdict after deliberating four hours. Because prosecutors declined to seek the death penalty in the case, Flores received the automatic life sentence.

And LBAC (life begins at conception) freaks jizz themselves into a frenzy. Discuss.

Drasta · Post by **Drasta** » June 7, 2005, 5:07 pm

what a crock of shit

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » June 7, 2005, 5:09 pm

That is sick.

#1 Why couldn't she have a normal abortion and have to resort to that?

#2 At most this boy should have been charged with assault.

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » June 7, 2005, 5:09 pm

You either prosecute both or neither. This isnt justice at all.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » June 7, 2005, 5:12 pm

I'm not for sure he needs life but come on... he kicked his GFs stomache to cause her to miscarry that is seriously fucked up. He could have easily driven her to the abortion clinic or found someone to help. How far along was the pregnancy? I don't see that listed but obivously far enough along for her to show... from a psych perspective it's like children who torture animals... It didn't say life without parole either so he can probably get out in 10 years...

Marb

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » June 7, 2005, 5:13 pm

Lohrno wrote:

That is sick.

#1 Why couldn't she have a normal abortion and have to resort to that?

#2 At most this boy should have been charged with assault.

You forgot to take these into account:

"19-Year-Old Stepped On Stomach While Girl Punched Self "
"Erica Basoria acknowledged asking Flores to help end her pregnancy"

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » June 7, 2005, 5:16 pm

Right so even that would be stretching it a lot.

Seebs · Post by **Seebs** » June 7, 2005, 5:19 pm

Hearing about more and more of these.

Not listed in the story is what tri-mester she was in. I cannot imagine this but getting a feel for how far along she was would help me paint a more definitive picture in my mind's eye.

This is a no win obviously, but by baiting the life at conception crowd you are basically condoning this as just another assault, which is such a flawed way of thinking in my opinion.

Does this not upset you or just the fact that the kid got life in prison upset you?

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » June 7, 2005, 5:19 pm

Right so even that would be stretching it a lot.

Homercles · Post by **Homercles** » June 7, 2005, 5:32 pm

They should both be prosecuted.

Once again, if a woman is set on having an abortion, she needs to go to a medical facility to have the procedure done by qualified, trained, and responsible individuals. You dont go punching yourself or ask your boyfriend to kick the living shit out of you (no pun intended). You dont grab a bat and beat yourself. You dont grab a hanger and scrape yourself. You dont ram yourself into a wall. YOU GO TO A CLINIC.

If a woman takes any other method to terminate a pregnancy she should be held to the same laws and face the same punishment as someone that "illegally" helps terminate a pregnancy.

This double standard is absurd.

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » June 7, 2005, 5:37 pm

Seebs wrote:Hearing about more and more of these.

Not listed in the story is what tri-mester she was in. I cannot imagine this but getting a feel for how far along she was would help me paint a more definitive picture in my mind's eye.

This is a no win obviously, but by baiting the life at conception crowd you are basically condoning this as just another assault, which is such a flawed way of thinking in my opinion.

Does this not upset you or just the fact that the kid got life in prison upset you?

2 people (one is under age) agreed to terminate the pregnancy albeit through questionable means. It should be treated no differently than if they were to circumvent their state's laws on abortion. There's a huge world of difference between forcibly terminating a wanted pregnancy against a woman's wishes vs this case. Texas is a joke.

miir · Post by **miir** » June 7, 2005, 5:43 pm

The ultra religious right tries to force it's values on the rest of the population trying to make them fear getting an abortion.. then dimwitted teenagers do stupid shit like this rather than go to a clinic/hospital.

What a fucked up society.

cid · Post by **cid** » June 7, 2005, 6:13 pm

miir wrote:The ultra religious right tries to force it's values on the rest of the population trying to make them fear getting an abortion.. then dimwitted teenagers do stupid shit like this rather than go to a clinic/hospital.

What a fucked up society.

Hell just froze over. I agree with Miir.

Seebs · Post by **Seebs** » June 7, 2005, 6:14 pm

So in the last two post I get:

*Its the fault of Texas
*Its the fault of Society
*The means were 'questionable'
*If my opinion varies from this I'm part of the Ultra Religious right

I have an idea. Lets hold these and all people accountable for their actions and quit blaming God and Counrty. The fact you guys are trying to give these defective people 'outs' and rationale is pathetic.

And thanks for pointing out that one participant was underage, so the charge of statatory rape should be introduced also.

A year in prison will be a life sentence for this kid, I can almost assure you. The sentence is moot. Rufus the cell block president will be snapping this kids neck the first week.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » June 7, 2005, 6:15 pm

Kelgar wrote:http://www.channel3000.com/news/4577721/detail.html

Teen Gets Life Sentence For Helping Girlfriend End Pregnancy
19-Year-Old Stepped On Stomach While Girl Punched Self

POSTED: 6:44 am CDT June 7, 2005

LUFKIN, Texas -- A 19-year-old East Texas man faces a life prison sentence for causing his teenage girlfriend to miscarry twins, even though she wanted to end the pregnancy.

Gerardo Flores was accused of causing the miscarriage by stepping on his girlfriend's stomach. He was prosecuted under the state's new fetal protection law.

Erica Basoria acknowledged asking Flores to help end her pregnancy. But the 17-year-old can't be prosecuted because of her legal right to abortion.

The defense contended that Basoria punched herself while Flores was stepping on her, making it impossible to tell who killed the twins.

The jury reached a verdict after deliberating four hours. Because prosecutors declined to seek the death penalty in the case, Flores received the automatic life sentence.
And LBAC (life begins at conception) freaks jizz themselves into a frenzy. Discuss.

But, but I thought this wouldn't happen once abortion was legalized.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » June 7, 2005, 6:19 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote: But, but I thought this wouldn't happen once abortion was legalized.

It would happen a lot more if it were not. I'm not sure who said it wouldn't happen...but lets look at the situation.

I bet Texas has some law about kids under 18 not being able to have an abortion without parent's consent, and she was forced into this method to do it because her parents probably would not let her. She is 17 after all.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » June 7, 2005, 6:33 pm

The laws requiring parental consent were just passed through the house I believe. I think they tacked it onto another bill to get it through. I think the reason these two used the method they did was either pure stupidity, she was baiting him into it, or she admitted wanting it done this way out of fear of him.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » June 7, 2005, 6:36 pm

just because it is legal to get an abortion doesn't mean that it is practical for people in all places to find a place to get one.

sure those of us who live in cities could find hundreds of places.

but lets say you live in a small town. let's say your dad was the only obstetrician, or your mom was. or you live in a town that the local church has people always monitoring who goes in and out of the abortion clinic.

let's say there is no obstetrician for 50-100 miles?

i'm not suggesting Abortion is something the government should subsidize and put on every street corner.

i'm just saying there may be a lot of variables.

bottom line is these kids are still idiots though.

---

let's take a different tack though. what if the judge intentionally gave him an overreaching sentence, hoping it would appeal. Hoping the appeal would be upheld, and then appealed to federal court.

IE Judicial Activism to get case law challenging Roe v. Wade into the court system.

---

now the flip side is also that I agree with the fundamental principle that assaulting a pregnant woman is different than assaulting a non-pregnant woman. And if you assault a pregnant woman and that leads to her terminating the pregnancy that should be treated as a very serious crime. I 100% agree with that.

But it is like many of these issues, legally treading in difficult spaces.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » June 7, 2005, 6:36 pm

Just lookedup the info on the bill, and found that it actually made it to the Governor this week. The ceremony around it is what makes me sick. It's not that I have anything against religion, but the fact that we try to preach (pun intended) the separation of church and state and then this takes place...well, decide for yourself.

Perry signs abortion bill at church school amid protests
6/6/2005 11:16 AM
By: Associated Press

FORT WORTH, Texas -- In a ceremony filled with religious references, Gov. Rick Perry signed a bill that imposes more limits on late-term abortions. It also requires minors to get written parental consent for abortions.

The bill-signing took place in a church school gymnasium. Several hundred demonstrators -- some opposed to the signing of a bill on church property -- protested outside.

During the 90-minute program, Perry also signed a resolution to amend the Texas Constitution by banning same-sex marriages.

However, that signature was only ceremonial since voters must decide whether to approve the proposed ban in November.

Before Perry spoke, several pastors received standing ovations and shouts of “Amen!'' from the crowd as they touted the two measures being signed by Perry.

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » June 7, 2005, 6:40 pm

Seebs wrote:So in the last two post I get:

*Its the fault of Texas
*Its the fault of Society
*The means were 'questionable'
*If my opinion varies from this I'm part of the Ultra Religious right

I have an idea. Lets hold these and all people accountable for their actions and quit blaming God and Counrty. The fact you guys are trying to give these defective people 'outs' and rationale is pathetic.

And thanks for pointing out that one participant was underage, so the charge of statatory rape should be introduced also.

A year in prison will be a life sentence for this kid, I can almost assure you. The sentence is moot. Rufus the cell block president will be snapping this kids neck the first week.

The beating part is irrelevant. It was 100% consentual, so it (oddly enough) doesn't truly amount to assault.

As for blaming "God and country", you sure as hell bet your ass it has a lot to do with this bullshit. Abortion is legal in this country. For all practical purposes, this was exactly what they were both trying to accomplish (via wacked means). The twins can be legally treated as human lives which were wrongfully killed only if it was the childbearer's clear desire to go fully to term. It was 100% obvious that this wasn't the case, yet the Texas court chose to throw the book at this kid based on their religious views.

miir · Post by **miir** » June 7, 2005, 6:48 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote: But, but I thought this wouldn't happen once abortion was legalized.

Another "I'm going to make believe that people said some really stupid shit so the really stupid shit I'm about to say seems less stupid" Midnyte post.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » June 7, 2005, 8:49 pm

miir wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote: But, but I thought this wouldn't happen once abortion was legalized.

Another "I'm going to make believe that people said some really stupid shit so the really stupid shit I'm about to say seems less stupid" Midnyte post.

Oh really? What do you think they arguements from the libs were back when Roe v. Wade was being decided? What do you think the arguements were back when Planned Parenthoods begain shooting up every 50 miles across the country back in the 80's?

What is the arguement from every lib, when someone mentions banning abortion?

uh-huh. That's what I thought. We have all this god damned education in the schools now, planned parent hoods everywhere, and you still have assholes self aborting like fucking animals? WHY? Because they are fucking animals! What kind of person does something like that? The same kind of sick fuck who would do it whether abortion is legal or not. You bleeding heart assholes side with the scum of earth all the time, you make me fuckign sick.

I hope you all step in a puddle of AIDS.

Drasta · Post by **Drasta** » June 7, 2005, 8:55 pm

aids dies when it comes in contact with air i think ...... i might be wrong about this though

what is texas's law on abortion? maybe they didn't have the money for an abortion ...

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » June 7, 2005, 8:56 pm

Midnyte wrote:I hope you all step in a puddle of AIDS.

I just wanted to quote this for posterity, given how you get all in a snit when any of your ideological enemies say something similar.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » June 7, 2005, 9:05 pm

Holy crap! After I read that I was going to the bathroom, and I slipped and fell! It was AIDS spilled all over the floor! They oughta be more careful with that kinda thing!

Niffoni · Post by **Niffoni** » June 7, 2005, 9:14 pm

Obviously, the home abortion was done either out of fear or shame. Possibly to do with the laws in Texas, but I'd have to SEE them before I could draw a conclusion about that.

Shame can make kids do some fucked up things. But what's the alternative? Making abortion an accepted form of birth control? It's an awfully grey area. No wonder so many people want to make it a black and white issue. "Pro-life". "Women's rights". Political discourse for simpletons.

As rotten and fucked up as this is, I can (sadly) see how it could happen. At 17, a lot of kids are still REALLY terrified of what people (clinic people? friends? their parents?) will think of them. It probably seemed like the only "solution" at the time.

cid · Post by **cid** » June 7, 2005, 9:27 pm

Niffoni wrote: As rotten and fucked up as this is, I can (sadly) see how it could happen. At 17, a lot of kids are still REALLY terrified of what people (clinic people? friends? their parents?) will think of them. It probably seemed like the only "solution" at the time.

Just look at the teenage suicide rate.

What is sad is that they felt they could not go to their parents about it. That is why even at my children’s young age, I try to instill into them that they can come to me or mom for anything. We all make mistakes, but we can work out any problem as a family.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » June 7, 2005, 10:01 pm

This illuminates two things:

- It is sad and frightening that they could not talk to their parents. Maybe I was lucky to have a mother I could talk to about anything but I would definitely have brought this up and gotten her help.

- This is what will happen when you slowly push towards vilifying (sp) abortion. The more the religious right (sorry to bring it up but they are the people pushing for it) push this issue the more we will see this.

I am honestly torn on the punishment issue. They went way overboard, that is beyond doubt. I honestly don't see what they should charge him with if anything, maybe some community service for both and some classes for both as well to help them deal with things better. That they prosecuted him this way shows how truly fucked up Texas is.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » June 7, 2005, 10:06 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
miir wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote: But, but I thought this wouldn't happen once abortion was legalized.

Another "I'm going to make believe that people said some really stupid shit so the really stupid shit I'm about to say seems less stupid" Midnyte post.
Oh really? What do you think they arguements from the libs were back when Roe v. Wade was being decided? What do you think the arguements were back when Planned Parenthoods begain shooting up every 50 miles across the country back in the 80's?

What is the arguement from every lib, when someone mentions banning abortion?

uh-huh. That's what I thought. We have all this god damned education in the schools now, planned parent hoods everywhere, and you still have assholes self aborting like fucking animals? WHY? Because they are fucking animals! What kind of person does something like that? The same kind of sick fuck who would do it whether abortion is legal or not. You bleeding heart assholes side with the scum of earth all the time, you make me fuckign sick.

I hope you all step in a puddle of AIDS.

Uh huh, so in the same post you say you can't stop abortion, and suggest that it should be banned. And of course, it's the *other* people who are insane, as always.

*Hereby voting Midnyte most likely to own a foil hat*

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » June 7, 2005, 10:14 pm

Kelgar wrote:As for blaming "God and country", you sure as hell bet your ass it has a lot to do with this bullshit. Abortion is legal in this country. For all practical purposes, this was exactly what they were both trying to accomplish (via wacked means). The twins can be legally treated as human lives which were wrongfully killed only if it was the childbearer's clear desire to go fully to term. It was 100% obvious that this wasn't the case, yet the Texas court chose to throw the book at this kid based on their religious views.

but you have to look at the fact that just because abortion is legal it doesn't give you the right to perform one. just like if you tried to perform open heart surgery on your dad in the living room and he died you would probably go to jail for at least man 1. you can't enforce the law by yourself in most circumstances either. nor can you take mail out of a mailbox and start delivering it.

he definitely shouldn't have gotten a murder charge though. I'll bet the DA is creaming his jeans right now as he will probably be the next governor of texas for getting a jury to buy that line of shit in a state full of whacko religious nut-jobs. at most he should be guilty of practicing medicine without a liscense.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » June 7, 2005, 10:39 pm

He hates the AIDS!

Everybody run away from the AIDS!

This can is leaking AIDS too!

I am AIDS, hear me roar you bitchass!

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » June 7, 2005, 10:41 pm

Prosecute him? Fine.

Life in jail seems a little excessive.

Drasta · Post by **Drasta** » June 7, 2005, 10:58 pm

what about the right to not have excessive punishment or something?

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » June 8, 2005, 12:03 am

Drasta wrote:what about the right to not have excessive punishment or something?

uhh, it's texas. the righties execute the mentally retarded.

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » June 8, 2005, 1:09 am

kyoukan wrote:
Drasta wrote:what about the right to not have excessive punishment or something?
uhh, it's texas. the righties execute the mentally retarded.

and the left calls it abortion when they do the same thing...

Nick · Post by **Nick** » June 8, 2005, 1:29 am

Yes because only the mythical "left" (do you even understand the term?) have abortions.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » June 8, 2005, 1:41 am

[quote="Drasta"]aids dies when it comes in contact with air i think ...... i might be wrong about this though
[quote]

It's a fucking joke. ROFL

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » June 8, 2005, 1:43 am

Zaelath wrote: Uh huh, so in the same post you say you can't stop abortion, and suggest that it should be banned. And of course, it's the *other* people who are insane, as always.

Find in my post where I said I am against abortion. plskthxdrivethru

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » June 8, 2005, 2:11 am

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote: What is the arguement from every lib, when someone mentions banning abortion?

uh-huh. That's what I thought. We have all this god damned education in the schools now, planned parent hoods everywhere, and you still have assholes self aborting like fucking animals? WHY? Because they are fucking animals! What kind of person does something like that? The same kind of sick fuck who would do it whether abortion is legal or not. You bleeding heart assholes side with the scum of earth all the time, you make me fuckign sick.

Oh yes, I see now how that rant clearly puts you in the pro-choice camp.

Jesus Titty-Fucking Christ, could you be less self-aware?

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » June 8, 2005, 2:24 am

Zaelath wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote: What is the arguement from every lib, when someone mentions banning abortion?

uh-huh. That's what I thought. We have all this god damned education in the schools now, planned parent hoods everywhere, and you still have assholes self aborting like fucking animals? WHY? Because they are fucking animals! What kind of person does something like that? The same kind of sick fuck who would do it whether abortion is legal or not. You bleeding heart assholes side with the scum of earth all the time, you make me fuckign sick.
Oh yes, I see now how that rant clearly puts you in the pro-choice camp.

Jesus Titty-Fucking Christ, could you be less self-aware?

A perfect example of someone hearing what they want to hear. You aren't even worthy of my conversation. You are the weakest link, goodbye!

Nick · Post by **Nick** » June 8, 2005, 2:46 am

Tbh from the looks of your posts on this thread it seems you truly hate people who support the pro-choice stance. (going so far as to call them bleeding heart assholes who make you sick)

Which leads to the rather obvious conclusion that you are not pro-choice. Unless you hate yourself?

I don't see how you can justifiably claim Zealath is so massively innacurate in his interpretation.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » June 8, 2005, 6:35 am

Hmmm I guess noone cares about the two lives lost here?

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » June 8, 2005, 7:50 am

Nick wrote:Tbh from the looks of your posts on this thread it seems you truly hate people who support the pro-choice stance. (going so far as to call them bleeding heart assholes who make you sick)

.

A woman who would allow someone to beat her stomach area to force a miscarriage, make me sick. A person that agrees to do the beating to kill a baby makes me sick.

A woman who goes to the abortion clinic with her mom and dad and gets it safely taken care of, does not make me sick.

I do not support kids being able to get a medical procedure like that without a parents consent. The kid made a mistake and now they have to live with the consequences. It's called real life. The rest of us have, so should they.

Homercles · Post by **Homercles** » June 8, 2005, 10:42 am

What exactly does "Parental Consent" mean in the case of abortion?

Does it mean A) a Hospital/Clinic/Doctor has to have Parental Consent in order to perform an abortion.

or does it mean B) the Child has to have Parental Consent in order to get an abortion?

If its (A) then its a terrible law, as it will only create more situations not unlike this one. A girl is desperate to end a pregnancy, but her parents wont allow it. The clinics cant help so she goes off and does it on her own.

If its (B) ...well, its still a bad law. A girl cant end her pregnancy at all if she doesnt have Parental Consent. If she does, then shes broken the law and should be prosecuted.

I think the law should go the route of "Parental Notification". If a woman is underage, she at least has to notify her parent(s) that shes getting an abortion. The parent(s) will have no legal grounds to prevent it, but they must be notified. Id put the responsibilty in the Clinics/Hospitals to make sure the parents are notified. The girl has already proved irresponsible.
Once the clinic confirms notification it can schedule the procedure.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » June 8, 2005, 11:11 am

Metanis wrote:
kyoukan wrote:
Drasta wrote:what about the right to not have excessive punishment or something?
uhh, it's texas. the righties execute the mentally retarded.
and the left calls it abortion when they do the same thing...

if that were the case you wouldn't be here.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » June 8, 2005, 11:34 am

Two kids doing something monumentally stupid out of fear isn't what I would call the scum of the earth.

I feel bad for these kids. Overzealous prosecutors and the rise to power of moral politics and religious law in America-Land have really worked together to fuck this guy over.

10 years ago, he probably would've gotten 2-5 in a Min. Security Work Camp.

Niffoni · Post by **Niffoni** » June 8, 2005, 11:42 am

They're going to make an example out of the kid.

This will, of course, teach all those damn kids to stop having sex, and will in no way simply contribute to the ever-widening emotional and political rift twixt the generations, leading youths to take such matters into their own hands more often for fear of reprisal from stern, antagonistic authority figures more interested in doling out shame and punishments than in showing any concern for their interests.

No. Nothing like that will happen. They'll just stop fucking.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » June 8, 2005, 12:06 pm

abstinance only education is the answer!

with taxpayer funding going exclusively to Christian Faith Based organizations to teach kids about Natural Family Planning, and that sex is not something to do until they are married. No mention of contraception is neccessary from a practical or public health standpoint.

Amen brothers and sisters!!!

Sirensa · Post by **Sirensa** » June 8, 2005, 12:22 pm

AFAIK Texas has a fetal protection law which defines an embryo or fetus as an "individual" - hence the criminal murder charge was legal. (Medical practictioners performing legal abortions are exempt from these kinds of laws)

Though I believe the female should have been punished as well. If you are old enough to have sex, you're old enough to deal with the consequences - and if you deal with them stupidly, you deserve to be punished.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » June 8, 2005, 12:27 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote: A woman who goes to the abortion clinic with her mom and dad and gets it safely taken care of, does not make me sick.

I don't agree. She should make the decision herself about the future outcome of her WHOLE LIFE.

VeeshanVault

Texas: 19yo gets life for helping gf end pregnancy..

Texas: 19yo gets life for helping gf end pregnancy..

Re: Texas: 19yo gets life for helping gf end pregnancy..

Re: Texas: 19yo gets life for helping gf end pregnancy..

Re: Texas: 19yo gets life for helping gf end pregnancy..

Re: Texas: 19yo gets life for helping gf end pregnancy..

Re: Texas: 19yo gets life for helping gf end pregnancy..

Re: Texas: 19yo gets life for helping gf end pregnancy..

Re: Texas: 19yo gets life for helping gf end pregnancy..

Re: Texas: 19yo gets life for helping gf end pregnancy..