Child Population Dwindles in San Francisco

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Child Population Dwindles in San Francisco

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050524/ap_ ... &printer=1

Child Population Dwindles in San Francisco By LISA LEFF, Associated Press Writer
Tue May 24, 2:16 PM ET



Anne Bakstad and Ed Cohen are starting to feel as if their family of four is an endangered species in San Francisco.

Since the couple bought a house five years ago, more than a dozen families in their social circle have left the city for cheaper housing, better schools or both.

The goodbyes are so frequent that Carina, age 4 1/2, wants to know when she is going to move, too. Eric, 2 1/2, misses Gus, his playmate from across the street.

"When we get to know people through our kids, we think to ourselves, `Are they renters or owners? Where do they work?' You have to figure out how much time to invest in people," Bakstad said. "It makes you feel like, `Where is everyone going? Stay with us!'"

A similar lament is being heard in San Francisco's half-empty classrooms, in parks where parents are losing ground to dog owners, and in the corridors of City Hall.

San Francisco has the smallest share of small-fry of any major U.S. city. Just 14.5 percent of the city's population is 18 and under.

It is no mystery why U.S. cities are losing children. The promise of safer streets, better schools and more space has drawn young families away from cities for as long as America has had suburbs.

But kids are even more scarce in San Francisco than in expensive New York (24 percent) or in retirement havens such as Palm Beach, Fla., (19 percent), according to Census estimates.

San Francisco's large gay population — estimated at 20 percent by the city Public Health Department — is thought to be one factor, though gays and lesbians in the city are increasingly raising families.

Another reason San Francisco's children are disappearing: Family housing in the city is especially scarce and expensive. A two-bedroom, 1,000-square-foot starter home is considered a bargain at $760,000.

A recent survey by the city controller found 40 percent of parents said they were considering pulling up stakes within the next year.

Determined to change things, Mayor Gavin Newsom has put the kid crisis near the top of his agenda, appointing a 27-member policy council to develop plans for keeping families in the city.

"It goes to the heart and soul of what I think a city is about — it's about generations, it's about renewal and it's about aspirations," said Newsom, 37. "To me, that's what children represent and that's what families represent and we just can't sit back idly and let it go away."

Newsom has expanded health insurance for the poor to cover more people under 25, and created a tax credit for working families. And voters have approved measures to patch up San Francisco's public schools, which have seen enrollment drop from about 62,000 to 59,000 since 2000.

One voter initiative approved up to $60 million annually to restore public school arts, physical education and other extras that state spending no longer covers. Another expanded the city's Children's Fund, guaranteeing about $30 million a year for after-school activities, child care subsidies and other programs.

"We are at a crossroads here," said N'Tanya Lee, executive director of the nonprofit Coleman Advocates for Children and Youth. "We are moving toward a place where we could have an infrastructure of children's services and no children."

Other cities are trying similar strategies. Seattle has created a children's fund, like the one in San Francisco. Leaders in Portland, Ore., are pushing developers to build affordable housing for families, a move Newsom has also tried.

For families choosing to stay in San Francisco, life remains a series of trade-offs. They can enjoy world-class museums, natural beauty and an energy they say they cannot find in the suburbs.

But most families need two or more incomes to keep their homes, and their children spend most of their days being cared for by others.

"We have so many friends who are moving out and say how much easier life has been for them," Bakstad said. "If we can make it work in the city, we would love to stay. In a way, the jury is out."

___

On the Net:

Children's Fund: http://www.dcyf.org/204_8_childrenfund.htm

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Re: Child Population Dwindles in San Francisco

Post by Sylvus »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Gave me a morning laugh.
Er, why exactly?
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Post by Niffoni »

Wait... Californians can have children?

I thought people were born somewhere between the coasts, and then they moved to California to work, and then on to Florida to die, far from the eyes of civilization.
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Post by Aabidano »

The cost of living is completely ridiculous, taxes are high, stupid laws, public schools are crap and run by idiots, it's very crowded and the people are assholes. What I don't understand is why anyone would live in or around SF for any length of time if they've any choice. I'd rather live in NYC, it's a mess but at least the people are nice.

*Edit - Yes, I've lived there in case you're wondering

The bay area is beautiful with lots of really neat stuff to do, unfortunately there's ~10 million other people right there with you.
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Post by Fash »

in other san francisco news.. gay gyms are now more common than mcdonalds, which only has a slight lead on art galleries..

the decline in child population is caused more by the gay population than the article lets on...

not that there's anything wrong with that..
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Post by Animalor »

I'm moving out of the city where I live to one of the outlying towns where there is little traffic, house costs are way WAY cheaper. IMO, Big cities are not a place to raise kids.

The funny thing is that my commute will be about the same amount of time as my bus ride to the office was.
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Post by Homercles »

Sacremento is undergoing a population boom due to the flight from San Fran. People are living in Sac and commuting to San Fran. The commute (train) is just as quick if not quicker, than the driving commute from San Fran suburbs into the downtown area.
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Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

Straight couples with children moving out of the gayest city in the US.....shocking really.
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Post by Niffoni »

Better seats at the parades for us Qu'arrs!
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Post by Canelek »

However, if the Gay Agenda can absorb Oakland as well, there may actually be some improvement there.
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Post by Ebumar »

No hope for that, Cane.
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Post by cid »

Homercles wrote:Sacremento is undergoing a population boom due to the flight from San Fran. People are living in Sac and commuting to San Fran. The commute (train) is just as quick if not quicker, than the driving commute from San Fran suburbs into the downtown area.
That is why I got the fuck out of Sacramento.
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Post by Jice Virago »

Another issue is what the governator is doing to the education system here. California's education system, once among the best in the nation, is now underfunded and run by the same system of cronyism that did in Wisconsin's education system when Tommy Thompson was governer there. Schools in poorer/less politically important areas get a lower share of the funding than their counterparts with the same student enrollment. End result is parents find ways to get their kids into the schools that are worth a shit and the whole situation snowballs into more of the same. I don't exactly see gays driving people out of the fucking neighborhoods on the scale that is being seen here.
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Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

I found it intriguing that you used the word snowball. Freudian slip?
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Post by Pherr the Dorf »

It ummm has nothing to do with gays it has to do with cost of living + cost of children, gay couples with kids are moving out just as fast.

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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Pherr the Dorf wrote:It ummm has nothing to do with gays it has to do with cost of living + cost of children, gay couples with kids are moving out just as fast.

Careful your bigotry is showing

Careful your stupidity is showing.

The article itself said that the 20% gay population has something to do with it.

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Post by Lohrno »

San Francisco's large gay population — estimated at 20 percent by the city Public Health Department — is thought to be one factor, though gays and lesbians in the city are increasingly raising families.
That's hardly a compelling argument backed up by statistics. (other than "20 percent of our city is gay.")

There were no people quoted as saying "I'm moving out of here away from these homos..."

Drawing the conclusion that the article suggests that the gay population is almost totally resonsible for that is a bit of a reach I think.

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Post by Pherr the Dorf »

SF has always had a 20% gay rate, why is it effecting it all of a sudden

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Post by Nick »

OMGAD THATS TREASOUNOS PHERR.


On a side note, is there a point to this post other than to make a not so hidden dig at gay people?
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Re: Child Population Dwindles in San Francisco

Post by kyoukan »

Sylvus wrote:Er, why exactly?
because he's a homophobic fucking nazi?

duh? you mean you gay people have less children than straight people? has anyone reported this to the police?
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Re: Child Population Dwindles in San Francisco

Post by Dregor Thule »

kyoukan wrote:
Sylvus wrote:Er, why exactly?
because he's a homophobic fucking nazi?

duh? you mean you gay people have less children than straight people? has anyone reported this to the police?
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Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

Ahhhhh....so he is homophobic because people are moving away from San Fran. I get it now. So you must be snowophobic because people are leaving Vancouver to get away from the winters.
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Post by Sylvus »

Actually I think that people are saying he's homophobic because he was laughing about San Fran losing families because of gay people.
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Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

Well......if I am not sure you are reading the same thread I am, but it looks to me like you jumped directly to a conclusion. Midnyte was definitely not the person to introduce the gay element to this thread.....outside of what was actually quoted in the article.
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Post by Sylvus »

Midnyte wrote:Gave me a morning laugh.
sylvus wrote:Er, why exactly?
you wrote:Straight couples with children moving out of the gayest city in the US.....shocking really.
Pherr wrote:It ummm has nothing to do with gays it has to do with cost of living + cost of children, gay couples with kids are moving out just as fast.

Careful your bigotry is showing
Midnyte wrote:Careful your stupidity is showing.

The article itself said that the 20% gay population has something to do with it.
Check the third quote I put up there, I don't think I'm the one who jumped to conclusions. :razz:

Pretty clear to me that he was thinking about gay people when he wrote that first line, which is what I was wondering about at the beginning. Just because you guys happen to look at certain issues the same way doesn't mean that he can't still be a bigot (because he is and has proven it time and again) without you being one.

I don't really see any reason for you to defend him, Kilmoll.
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Post by Fash »

when the gay population has risen to 20%, and most gay families have no children.. can you tell me that the gay population has nothing to do with less children living in san fran?

i would never remark that people would move away from gay people, only that the gayest city on earth having less child population does not suprise me in the slightest.

i support gay people... and their right to die without offspring.
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Post by VariaVespasa »

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:Ahhhhh....so he is homophobic because people are moving away from San Fran. I get it now. So you must be snowophobic because people are leaving Vancouver to get away from the winters.
I wish we had more snow in Vancouver to get away from, personally. Havent had any good snow here for 13 years or more. Sniff.

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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Fash wrote:
i support gay people... and their right to die without offspring.

ROFL
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Sylvus wrote:Actually I think that people are saying he's homophobic because he was laughing about San Fran losing families because of gay people.
ROFL

That's even funnier. I'm afraid of gay people because I find the fact the media has written an article about the obvious, funny? LOL

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Post by Lynks »

Actually, it makes you the litte kid that laughs when someone says titmouse. try growing up just a bit and be less afraid of "the gay agenda" for what you think it will do to your precious United States.
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Post by Aabidano »

The large gay population is likely a factor for folks that moved there from other areas prior to starting families. It's easier to be an open minded liberal when you don't have the responsibility of children and a mortage. In case you haven't noticed people's attitudes\priorities towards life usually change a lot once they've got kids.

I don't have anything against gays per se, but on the same note I wouldn't want to live in an area that holds the (counter productive) "flaming queen" parades either. I don't care what you do at home, don't tell me about it, it's none of my business. I've had no problem in the past working around openly gay people, it shouldn't be a public\workplace issue.

The cost of living, cost of kids, lack of close at hand, "neutral" play areas and terrible schools are probably the biggest factors.
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Post by Niffoni »

I laugh at titmouse :(

I support the right of all people to die without children. In fact, I encourage it. Especially if you're a titmouse.
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Post by miir »

when the gay population has risen to 20%, and most gay families have no children.. can you tell me that the gay population has nothing to do with less children living in san fran?
The gay population has not 'risen'.
It's been pretty static for the past 25 years.
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Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

Well I guess it is tough to get those numbers up when you don't reproduce to pass along your defective gene.
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Post by miir »

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:Well I guess it is tough to get those numbers up when you don't reproduce to pass along your defective gene.
Straight couples are responsible for producing over 99% of the homosexuals in America!
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Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

Sylvus wrote: Check the third quote I put up there, I don't think I'm the one who jumped to conclusions. :razz:

Pretty clear to me that he was thinking about gay people when he wrote that first line, which is what I was wondering about at the beginning. Just because you guys happen to look at certain issues the same way doesn't mean that he can't still be a bigot (because he is and has proven it time and again) without you being one.

I don't really see any reason for you to defend him, Kilmoll.

Fash was the one who played the gay card first! I have found one thing though.....one never knows what Midnyte is thinking. It is like trying to decipher what a woman is thinking.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:
Sylvus wrote: Check the third quote I put up there, I don't think I'm the one who jumped to conclusions. :razz:

Pretty clear to me that he was thinking about gay people when he wrote that first line, which is what I was wondering about at the beginning. Just because you guys happen to look at certain issues the same way doesn't mean that he can't still be a bigot (because he is and has proven it time and again) without you being one.

I don't really see any reason for you to defend him, Kilmoll.



Fash was the one who played the gay card first! I have found one thing though.....one never knows what Midnyte is thinking. It is like trying to decipher what a woman is thinking.

*blush* ahhh shucks
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Post by Boogahz »

The church I attend has a population which is about 90% homosexual, and I believe the majority of them have children. Now, this is an older population rather than the early-20's crowd people tend to think of. These children are mostly from previous marriages, and I myself am one of those as both of my parents are gay. There are a total of 5 children counting myself and the children from my father's second marriage. I don't think that it is automatic that because a person is gay there are no/less children.
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Post by Sylvus »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:ROFL

That's even funnier. I'm afraid of gay people because I find the fact the media has written an article about the obvious, funny? LOL
I never said you were scared of gay people. Perhaps you should bone up on the various meanings of the word "homophobe", that could be where the disconnect is coming from.

Funny how you mention nothing of finding the humor in the "obvious" until you're called a homophobe. It's quite obvious you hold contempt for gay people, if only from revisiting your previous postings on gay issues.
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Post by miir »

Perhaps you should bone up on the various meanings of the word "homophobe
teehee :lol:
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

miir wrote:
Perhaps you should bone up on the various meanings of the word "homophobe
teehee :lol:

rofl
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Sylvus wrote: It's quite obvious you hold contempt for gay people, if only from revisiting your previous postings on gay issues.

It's quite obvious you don't know how to read. I have stated dozens of times I find gays freakish. I enjoy freaks. Because I find this birth defect abnormal, doesn't mean I hold them in contempt. I like all people who are good people. Who don't hurt or harm others. I could give a shit less whether you like a nice warm wet pussy or a warm wet mans load on your face. But, I reserve the right to find them freakish. I also find retards abnormal. Being born retarded is outside the norm, something went wrong. When a person is born gay, something went wrong.

We have had this conversation many fucking times. But you will only take from my comments what you want me to be. As you will.
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Post by masteen »

Boogahz wrote:The church I attend has a population which is about 90% homosexual, and I believe the majority of them have children. Now, this is an older population rather than the early-20's crowd people tend to think of. These children are mostly from previous marriages, and I myself am one of those as both of my parents are gay. There are a total of 5 children counting myself and the children from my father's second marriage. I don't think that it is automatic that because a person is gay there are no/less children.
It is becoming less common as acceptance of homosexuality has grown. There isn't the social pressure like there was in the 50's to marry and reproduce, lest you be labled as Abby Normal.
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Post by Niffoni »

miir wrote:Straight couples are responsible for producing over 99% of the homosexuals in America!
This is actually true. The other 1% is the fault of Richard Simmons.
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Deward
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Post by Deward »

I don't believe the gay population has anything to do with families leaving the SF area. Families are leaving simply because of the high housing costs. During the dot net boom, housing prices were driven up very fast. The government made sure to keep these prices high to ensure they could bilk consumers of their tax dollars. The government has continued to artificially inflate the values of these homes by claiming they are worth more than they actually are. The politicians promise not to raise taxes but then they get the local accessor to raise the property values and hence taxes. I have an Aunt-in-law who lives right across the street from Golden Gate Park in an upper lower duplex with 2 bedrooms and maybe 1000 square feet. Her place is worth over $800,000 last I heard three years ago. It was a nice place but I wouldn't pay that to live there.
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Post by miir »

Niffoni wrote:
miir wrote:Straight couples are responsible for producing over 99% of the homosexuals in America!
This is actually true. The other 1% is the fault of Richard Simmons.
I think Richard Simmons is more apt to scare men straight than turning htem gay.
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Post by Niffoni »

Deward wrote:I don't believe the gay population has anything to do with families leaving the SF area. Families are leaving simply because of the high housing costs. During the dot net boom, housing prices were driven up very fast. The government made sure to keep these prices high to ensure they could bilk consumers of their tax dollars. The government has continued to artificially inflate the values of these homes by claiming they are worth more than they actually are. The politicians promise not to raise taxes but then they get the local accessor to raise the property values and hence taxes. I have an Aunt-in-law who lives right across the street from Golden Gate Park in an upper lower duplex with 2 bedrooms and maybe 1000 square feet. Her place is worth over $800,000 last I heard three years ago. It was a nice place but I wouldn't pay that to live there.
Quiet, we're trying to blame minorities for everything, and your facts are screwing it up.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Niffoni wrote:
Deward wrote:I don't believe the gay population has anything to do with families leaving the SF area. Families are leaving simply because of the high housing costs. During the dot net boom, housing prices were driven up very fast. The government made sure to keep these prices high to ensure they could bilk consumers of their tax dollars. The government has continued to artificially inflate the values of these homes by claiming they are worth more than they actually are. The politicians promise not to raise taxes but then they get the local accessor to raise the property values and hence taxes. I have an Aunt-in-law who lives right across the street from Golden Gate Park in an upper lower duplex with 2 bedrooms and maybe 1000 square feet. Her place is worth over $800,000 last I heard three years ago. It was a nice place but I wouldn't pay that to live there.
Quiet, we're trying to blame minorities for everything, and your facts are screwing it up.
Problem with this point of view is this is also the case all over the country. The cost of housing/living has gone through the roof over the past few years. Housing prices are absoluely insane right now. So using that as the excuse doesn't work. You must look at reasons exclusive to the bay area.
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Post by Lohrno »

Deward wrote:I don't believe the gay population has anything to do with families leaving the SF area.
Well that's a pretty broad sweeping statement. I'd be inclined to correct that by saying that most of the families leaving is probably not caused by the gay population. There have to be at least 1 or 2.

I'd wager that this could also be an effect of the .com bubble bursting. Silicon Valley is not that far...
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Post by miir »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote: Problem with this point of view is this is also the case all over the country. The cost of housing/living has gone through the roof over the past few years. Housing prices are absoluely insane right now. So using that as the excuse doesn't work. You must look at reasons exclusive to the bay area.
That statement is based on the false assumption that the cost of living increases are equal across the country.
It also doesnt take into account that a 2% cost of living increase in San Fran is considerably greater than in...oh, lets say, Wisconsin.


You want a reason exclsive to the Bay area? How about the fact that it is one of the most expensive cities to live in the States.
I've got 99 problems and I'm not dealing with any of them - Lay-Z
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