Cacao vs Caffeine

[Winnow]

I've been doing some research on the effects of cacao (raw form of chocolate) and caffeine on the body. My interest was initiated after listening to a radio talk show that discussed the effects of cacao. The main thing that kept me listening were that cacao was a stimulant like caffeine but had some major positive differences.

Here's a breakdown of the differences between the active chemical in cacao (Theobromine) and Caffeine:



I'll break down the most important differences to me:

-Cacao acts as a mild antidepressant as compared to caffeine's emotional stress and strong effect on the central nervous system. I don't particularly want an antidepressant but I'll take that over caffeine's nervous jitters.

-the mild effect on the nervous system is also preferred over caffeine which is related to the stress effect above.

-not many are allergic to cacao. Most people that are allergic to chocolate are allergic to the dairy products in milk chocolate and not the actual raw chocolate it's made from (cacao).

-not addictive. This is huge. cacao offers a stimulant without the body developing an addiction or tolerance to it...which leads to:

-no withdrawal symptoms. gotta love that. caffeine causes all sorts of negative effects if you don't get your daily dose while cacao combines no addiction with no withdrawal systems...that's amazing.

----------------------

This was enough to get me to try the stuff. Cacao is not easy to find. I finally found some Cacao Nibs at a Whole Food store to try out. Cacao Nibs are Cacao beans/seeds that have been peeled and broken up into small pieces (sort of look like dark crunched nuts).

I bought 8oz of these things about a week+ ago for 5.99 and popped a handfull of them. First off, they aren't the greatest tasting things in the world. They're bitter. I have no problem chomping on them as they taste like bitter sunflower seeds or something which isn't that bad...don't expect them to taste like chocolate.

That first day went pretty well. They made me feel alert and I felt good with a sort of mini buzz going. I didn't eat any after around 5pm because the effects stay in your system for longer than caffeine. I slept well and the next morning I woke up and chomped down a small handfull before heading to the shower. I am not a morning person and have a bitch of a time getting up but the effects of eating some of the cacao nib thingies made me quite alert almost immediately.

I have been eating a few small handfulls of these things throughout the mornings at work and have been feeling great. I've noticed no ill effects as in headaches etc and no problems sleeping. They do have a certain "buzz" good feeling effect for sure.

Anyways, I've convinced myself that this is the way to go over caffeine. I've only discussed the stimulant part of this but Cacao has some serious health benefits which you can read about in the linked article or research for yourself.

Here's some interesting notes about Cacao/Chocolate. It's written by some superfood guy so it's a little over the top but not too bad.

http://www.sunfood.com/b2c/ecom/ecomEnd ... cacao.aspx

There's a lot more too the antitoxin effects and nutrients that this stuff provides but I suppose if nothing else, it's worth a try as a replacement for caffeine without a few of the negatives that caffeine has. I'm not selling this stuff so could care less if you do or not : )

*this post was written while high on cacao beans*

[kyoukan]

fuck off, winnow

[Winnow]

fuck off, winnow

no beans 4 U!

[Lohrno]

<TABLE BORDER><TR><TD>Theobromine</TD><TD>Caffeine</TD></TR><TR><TD>gentle</TD><TD>intense</TD></TR><TR>
<TD>mild effect</TD> <TD>strong effect</TD></TR><TR><TD>very slow onset</TD> <TD>fast acting</TD></TR><TR><TD>long lasting</TD> <TD>rapid dissipation</TD></TR><TR><TD>50% in bloodstream after 6 to 10 hours</TD> <TD>50% in bloodstream after 2 to 5 hours</TD></TR><TR><TD>increases feeling of well being</TD> <TD>increases alertness</TD></TR><TR><TD>mild antidepressant</TD><TD>increases emotional stress</TD></TR><TR>
<TD>gentle, smooth, sensual stimulation</TD> <TD>jagged, nervous stimulation</TD></TR><TR><TD>stimulates cardiovascular system</TD> <TD>stimulates cardiovascular system</TD></TR><TR><TD>stimulates muscular system</TD> <TD>stimulates respiratory system</TD></TR><TR><TD>mild effect on central nervous system</TD> <TD>strong effect on central nervous system</TD></TR><TR><TD>almost no one is allergic</TD> <TD>many people allergic</TD></TR><TR><TD>not addictive</TD> <TD>physically addictive</TD></TR><TR><TD>no withdrawal symptoms</TD> <TD>many proven withdrawal symptoms</TD></TR><TR><TD>mild diuretic</TD> <TD>extreme diuretic</TD></TR><TR><TD>stimulates the kidneys</TD> <TD>requires large intake of fluids to balance the diuretic effect</TD></TR></TABLE>

....

*this post was written while high on cacao beans*

I'm not convinced.

[Winnow]

Eat a few cacao beans and that mess will make sense even without the formatted tables!

You may need to take it a step further and give yourself a cacao enema.

Here's the link to the table I used in case firefox is lame and doesn't work or something. IE works fine!

http://www.mrkland.com/fun/xocoatl/caffeine.htm

[Kelshara]

Works perfectly fine in Firefox. You're still on crack though.

[Niffoni]

I'd post about the good side of oxycontin but i'mtooeor4394f.;ughta4

[Sirensa]

You should put the cacao beans in your coffee. That's why I'd do.

[Lohrno]

Eat a few cacao beans and that mess will make sense even without the formatted tables!

You may need to take it a step further and give yourself a cacao enema.

Sorry, I generally make it a rule for my ass that things go out only. Don't want to go against the grain.

[Xzion]

nothing like a raw double expresso or cuban coffee, no milk, no cream, no sugar

[Nick]

So do you reckon you will be taking those instead of cofee from now on then Winnow or what?

I personally am getting a bit sick of coffee as it seems to wreck my head a little if I take too much.

[Trias]

i can't even touch coffee now...

5 and a half years ago i was working for Novartis Pharmaceutical doing medical inspection on a drug called Miacalcin...there was a bad batch where a suspected 50% of 3 million or so vials was contaminated...i was working 11 and half hour days 7 days a week for about 4 months and lived off of coffee pretty much to survive

the money was hand over fist from overtime and double time but coffee gave me an ulcer and turns my stomach just thinking about it

bleh...i'll have to try cacao perhaps

[Winnow]

So do you reckon you will be taking those instead of cofee from now on then Winnow or what?

I personally am getting a bit sick of coffee as it seems to wreck my head a little if I take too much.

Yes. I'm munching on cacao nibs instead of coffee. The effect comparison with caffeine listed above has played out accurately over the past 10 days or so.

The issues I would anticipate others having is the taste of them. I eat them as is but others mix them into smoothies, etc due to the bitter taste. IMO that's what water is for afterwards!

The benefits of removing an addictive chemical with withdrawal symptoms with one that has neither of those negative attributes along with several other positive effects (and huge benefits in magnesium, and being the #1 antitoxin available by far) over caffiene makes cacao the clear choice for me.

The ORAC test examines the antioxidant levels of various foods. The higher the ORAC score, the higher the level of antioxidants present in the food. Source: US Department of Agriculture / Journal of the American Chemical Society

If you end up trying them, I'd still slowly work yourself off caffeine because if you stop cold turkey and take cacao, you'll still get the withdrawal symptoms of caffeine for a few days. What I did was reduce my coffee in the morning from a full cup, to 3/4, to 1/2, 1/4 to nada.

Here's some other notes on the subject:

Phenylethylamine (PEA)
PEA is a chemical in cacao that increases the activity of neurotransmitters (brain chemicals) in parts of the brain that control our ability to pay attention and stay alert. Elevated PEA levels occur when we are captivated by a good book, movie, or project; this happens specifically during those moments when we are so focused that we lose all track of time, food, and the outside world.

PEA is noticeably abundant in the brains of happy people.

Chocolate has been found to contain up to 2.2% phenylethylamine (PEA).

Anandamide (The Bliss Chemical)
A neurotransmitter called anandamide (n-arachidonoylethanolamine), has been isolated in cacao in quantities significant enough to affect the brain. Anandamide is a cannabinoid naturally found in the human brain. Anandamide is a lipid (fat) known as "the bliss chemical" because it is released while we are feeling great.

Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitors (MAO Inhibitors)
These rare MAO inhibitors actually produce favorable results when consumed by allowing more serotonin and other neurotransmitters such as anandamide, dopamine, etc. to circulate in the brain. According to Dr. Gabriel Cousens, MAO inhibitors facilitate youthening and rejuvenation.

MAO inhibitors make one younger as they allow more neurotransmitters to remain in the bloodstream. A primary phenomenon that separates children from adults is the level of neurotransmitters in the blood and bodies of children. Generally, as one remains on the planet longer and longer, the level of neurotransmitters decreases. This creates physical rigidity, less creativity, less joy, and more aging! Cacao, being an MAO inhibitor, keeps plenty of neurotransmitters in circulation and thus stops this phenomenon from ever occurring.


Nature's Prozac (Anti-Depressant Properties of Cacao)
As we have noted, cacao is one of nature's richest sources of magnesium, which is a heart as well as brain mineral. Cacao is also a great source of serotonin, dopamine, and phenylethylamine, three well-studied neurotransmitters, which help alleviate depression and are associated with feelings of well being. Cacao contains monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAO Inhibitors) that improve our mood because they allow serotonin and dopamine to remain in the bloodstream longer without being broken down. Cacao contains anandamide which delivers blissful feelings. Cacao also contains B vitamins, which are associated with brain health. All this makes cacao a natural prozac!

Raw Chocolate
The truth about the health-benefits of chocolate is finally reaching our ears. However, the whole truth should be told. Chocolate is healthy if it is dark with no added dairy products/milk or refined sugar. Even better are raw cacao beans, the "food of the gods" which possess all the magical properties of chocolate without any adulteration or processing!

Cacao beans contain over 300 chemically identifiable compounds making it one of the most complex food substances on Earth!

Substances in chocolate that have been discussed in the scientific literature as pharmacologically significant, include: anandamide (bliss chemical), arginine (nature's Viagra), dopamine (neurotransmitter), epicatechins (antioxidants), histamine, magnesium, serotonin (anti-stress neurotransmitter), tryptophan (anti-depressant amino acid), phenylethylamine (PEA), polyphenols (antioxidants), tyramine, and salsolinol.

Magnesium
Dr. Bernard Jensen's research on the heart indicates that this organ requires two minerals more than any other, magnesium and potassium. Magnesium is concentrated eighteen times greater in the heart muscle than in the bloodstream. Magnesium is the primarily mineral missing when heart problems occur. Magnesium increases the overall vigor of the heart muscle. This mineral also decreases blood coagulation thus lowering blood pressure and helping the heart pump more effectively. Cacao, of course, is a fantastic food source of heart-supporting magnesium.

Antioxidants
According to research cited in The New York Times, fresh cacao beans are super-rich in antioxidant flavonols. Cacao beans contain 10,000 milligrams (10 grams) per 100 grams of flavonol antioxidants. This is a whopping 10% antioxidant concentration level! This makes cacao one of the richest sources of antioxidants of any food. Compare the cacao bean to processed cocoa powder (defatted, roasted cacao treated with potassium carbonate) and chocolates which range in flavonol content from the more common concentration of 500 milligrams per 100 grams in normal chocolate bars to 5,000 milligrams in Mars Corporation's special Cocoapro cocoa powder.

Research has demonstrated that the antioxidants in cacao are highly stable and easily available to human metabolism.

Cornell University food scientists found that cocoa powder has nearly twice the antioxidants of red wine and up to three times what is found in green tea. Their findings were published in an article entitled "Cocoa Has More Phenolic Phytochemicals and a Higher Antioxidant Capacity than Teas and Red Wine," found in the American Chemical Society's Journal of Agriculture and Food Chemistry, a peer-reviewed publication.

There is no scientific substantiation that Chocolate contains caffeine, and a great deal of evidence that it does not. The Biochemist, (Apr/May 1993, p 15) did chemical composition tests where they specifically distinguished between Caffeine and Theobromine. They found regularly up to 1.3% by weight Theobromine in Chocolate. They also found other pharmacologically active compounds including up to 2.20% Phenylethylamine up to 1.54% Tele- methylhistamine and occasionally up to 5.82% Serotonin. They could not detect any Caffeine at all. (Full results are on the Science Page.) I have yet to see a dependable chemical reference that includes Caffeine in Chocolate. (The Merck Index, 12th Edition says that a very small amount of Caffeine is found in the hulls of of the Cacao seeds, the hulls are discarded before processing.)

People seem to assume that caffeine is the only stimulant. Theobromine clearly has stimulant properties, so people reflexively attribute those effects to caffeine -- even though many of the effects are fundamentally different from caffeine. I guess they think it is easier to just say it is caffeine. I believe that many people casually refer to caffeine, when they really mean a whole class of chemicals called xanthines, of which caffeine is but one example. This is roughly equivalent to calling apes, human, because both are primates and humans are the more familiar type primate. Both are primates, but the differences are pretty obvious.

There is a similar confusion with the Andean tea Maté. Like Chocolate, Maté clearly has stimulant properties, which are obviously very different from caffeine's effects; however many people say it contains caffeine simply because because it is a stimulant. Yerba Maté contains Mateine, a xanthine even more closely related to Caffeine than Theobromine. It is a simple stereo-isomer of caffeine. Mateine, like Theobromine, is not addictive.

[Fairweather Pure]

I drank 2-3 20oz of Mnt Dew everyday for the past 10-12 years, drinking even more on weekends.

I switched to just water, doubling my liquid intake, and never had a single "withdrawl".

If you actually have to ween yourself off caffine, you are without a doubt, at the shallow end of the gene pool. Then again, if that is the biggest concern in your life, you are a lucky person.

[Fash]

years ago i dropped caffeine entirely and had a 7 day headache... the most recent time i had no withdrawal symptoms...

I would rather eat a dark chocolate bar high in Cacao than munch on the cacao, which I have tried.

[Aslanna]

I drank 2-3 20oz of Mnt Dew everyday for the past 10-12 years, drinking even more on weekends.

I switched to just water, doubling my liquid intake, and never had a single "withdrawl".

If you actually have to ween yourself off caffine, you are without a doubt, at the shallow end of the gene pool. Then again, if that is the biggest concern in your life, you are a lucky person.

A lot of people get headaches, among other 'symptoms', when they stop regular caffeine intake.

The fact that you didn't means nothing.

[Fairweather Pure]

The fact that you didn't means nothing.

I've never seen caffine withdrawls as a reason to dispense medication, be seen as an outpatient for any sort of labwork or diagnostic workup, or emergency room visit. Ive never heard or read a single Doctor's dictation that mentioned caffine as having a negative impact or being a contributing factor on any existing condition like, say hypertension, diabetes, or hypothyroidism does. Two of those common conditions are easily preventable, but rampant in Americans due to shitty eating habits, but I digress...

It's just stupid to try and make an issue over something so benign as caffine. If you want to stop ingesting caffine, good for you. Just don't blow your "withdrawls" out of porportion like an attention whore.

[Aslanna]

The fact that you didn't means nothing.

I've never seen caffine withdrawls as a reason to dispense medication, be seen as an outpatient for any sort of labwork or diagnostic workup, or emergency room visit. Ive never heard or read a single Doctor's dictation that mentioned caffine as having a negative impact or being a contributing factor on any existing condition like, say hypertension, diabetes, or hypothyroidism does. Two of those common conditions are easily preventable, but rampant in Americans due to shitty eating habits, but I digress...

Who the hell said anything about all that shit?

It's just stupid to try and make an issue over something so benign as caffine. If you want to stop ingesting caffine, good for you. Just don't blow your "withdrawls" out of porportion like an attention whore.

I dont believe I ever said I had "withdrawls". I don't consume caffeine. Nice try though.

[Asheran Mojomaster]

The fact that you didn't means nothing.

I've never seen caffine withdrawls as a reason to dispense medication, be seen as an outpatient for any sort of labwork or diagnostic workup, or emergency room visit. Ive never heard or read a single Doctor's dictation that mentioned caffine as having a negative impact or being a contributing factor on any existing condition like, say hypertension, diabetes, or hypothyroidism does. Two of those common conditions are easily preventable, but rampant in Americans due to shitty eating habits, but I digress...

It's just stupid to try and make an issue over something so benign as caffine. If you want to stop ingesting caffine, good for you. Just don't blow your "withdrawls" out of porportion like an attention whore.

Ok, Caffeine DOES have withdrawls, when I quit drinking it about a year and a half ago I had some fucking TERRIBLE headaches and some body aches for about 4 days. I completely quit cold turkey though after drinking 3-6 20 OZ cups of coke a day. Now I rarely drink coke, only when I am out of sprite and dont feel like drinking water, and that is the only source of caffeine I ever get, at the most 3 or 4 cups in a week.

I have to say, quitting caffeine has made me feel better overall and I don't need it to wake up anymore, I can do it on my own.

BTW, caffeine may not cause any of those problems you mentioned, but it can cause some severe insomnia in some people, especially if you drink a lot of it, and insomnia can cause shitloads of problems. Insomnia also makes you a very fucking grumpy person .

[Xyun]

this info is awesome. Winnow you need some cocaine.

[Winnow]

The fact that you didn't means nothing.

I've never seen caffine withdrawls as a reason to dispense medication, be seen as an outpatient for any sort of labwork or diagnostic workup, or emergency room visit. Ive never heard or read a single Doctor's dictation that mentioned caffine as having a negative impact or being a contributing factor on any existing condition like, say hypertension, diabetes, or hypothyroidism does. Two of those common conditions are easily preventable, but rampant in Americans due to shitty eating habits, but I digress...

It's just stupid to try and make an issue over something so benign as caffine. If you want to stop ingesting caffine, good for you. Just don't blow your "withdrawls" out of porportion like an attention whore.

What crawled up your ass? You may be used to seeing people withdrawing from heroin or some other hard drug where they shit the bed and thrash about, but all withdrawal symptoms don't have to be severe. A simple headache is still annoying enough to try and avoid if possible.

[Aabidano]

So I'm reading this and wondering, if caffeine bothers you, why not just stop using it and replace it with... nothing?

Addictive or not, when you use any drug for any period of time there are going to be issues when you stop taking it, to a greater or lesser degree. Ever watch a serious pothead try to stop smoking non-addictive weed?

[Winnow]

So I'm reading this and wondering, if caffeine bothers you, why not just stop using it and replace it with... nothing?

Addictive or not, when you use any drug for any period of time there are going to be issues when you stop taking it, to a greater or lesser degree. Ever watch a serious pothead try to stop smoking non-addictive weed?

Caffeine doesn't bother me but cacao has a similar affect with some positive differences in it being actually healthy for you as opposed to caffeine just providing a stimulation.

The benefits of cacao are pretty clearly defined above. You could take it simply for health reasons unlike caffeine. Do whatever you want. I don't view switching from caffeine to cacao as going from one vice to another. I'm not anti caffeine.

[Lohrno]

So I'm reading this and wondering, if caffeine bothers you, why not just stop using it and replace it with... nothing?

I think I speak for most of us saying that we are too busy and have to have something to replace the growing sleep defecit we are experiencing.

If I stopped caffeine I'd probably fall asleep at work.

[Nick]

Ever watch a serious pothead try to stop smoking non-addictive weed?

Are you for real?

Personal experience tells me you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

[Burke]

Marionberry = 45

Who knew crackheads were that good for you?

[Ransure]

Winnow, Ive been looking for this stuff, you said you got it at Wholefoods?... what section, I walked around there for like half an hour today...

I really want to try this stuff...

[Winnow]

Winnow, Ive been looking for this stuff, you said you got it at Wholefoods?... what section, I walked around there for like half an hour today...

I really want to try this stuff...

You're only going to find the roasted cacao nibs at Whole Foods. The box looks like this:



Nibs look like this:



It's in the area where you find other chocolate stuff for cooking purposes. In the Tempe, AZ store, they've been sold out since I purchased them almost two weeks ago.

These work, but supposedly the unroasted ones are slightly better. Health nuts seem to be all hyped up on raw stuff and think cooking is evil. The raw ones you can only get from the web I think with Nature's First Law being the primary location.

http://www.rawfood.com/cgi-bin/order/in ... colate&tc=



I ordered the 2.5 lb bag because I don't feel like reording often but I wouldn't do that until you've tried them out. They have a nice ordering system and the package shipped out the same day.

The roasted Whole Foods ones for 5.99 should be enough to see if they do anything for you.

[Ransure]

Awesome! I was looking for Natures First Law products earlier today... but now I know what they look like. Thanks!

[Marbus]

So here is my question... Winnow, have you had any changes in bowel movement since eating these daily?

Marb

[Winnow]

So here is my question... Winnow, have you had any changes in bowel movement since eating these daily?

Marb

wft

And to answer that, no. Check the first post comparison table, caffeine is more of a diuretic than cacao. I didn't have a problem before with caffeine so don't know if it would help someone who might.

[Winnow]

I just ordered another 3 pounds of Cacao from rawfood.com and then went to Whole Foods Market. Nature's First Law raw Cacao Nibs are stocked by them now.

If anyone wants to try out the good stuff (raw cacao, not roasted), you can now get it at a Whole Foods Market. The bag looks like this:

$9.99 for eight ounces




Notice I've been grumpy lately? It's because my supply of Cacao ran out! GOT TO HAVE MY CACAO!!11!

It's not addicting but I had to go back to caffeine which sucks (see first post in thread) compared to cacao.

[Animalor]

I'm going to assume you had a boring last few days at work to produce this opus to Cacao

[cadalano]

who the fuck fanboys beans

[Winnow]

who the fuck fanboys beans

That would be me!

[Marbus]

Still need to get some of these...

[Kelgar]

What the fuck. I may as well chime in on some weird shit I've been trying out lately.

http://www.indianchild.com/health/benef ... inegar.htm

In India, Ayurvedic physicians prescribe apple cider vinegar in combination with the herb Gotu Kola to help in the revitalizing of the skin. Indians have been known to consume apple cider vinegar in combination with honey to improve digestion. It contributes greatly to the breaking down of food in the body and also prevents harmful bacteria from multiplying. Even respiratory infections can be kept at bay, sore throats improve, and nasal discharges decrease.

The benefits of apple cider vinegar have been proclaimed by the ancient Egyptians and have been traditionally used by them to treat ailments of all kinds. In fact they believed apple cider acted as a tonic improving the circulation and flow of blood. Apples are allowed to ferment and this fermented fruit acid, which is loaded with pectin and minerals like potassium, chlorine, magnesium, sodium and calcium, seems to be a panacea. In addition it contains vitamins and beta-carotene. In fact experiments have proved that it contains carbolic acids, aldehydes, ketones, alcohols and acetates also. It is no wonder than that the health benefits of apple cider vinegar are infinite. Pectin in the apples is a fiber, which attaches itself to cholesterol globules, and when combined with the herb centella aids in getting rid of bad cholesterol and helps in regulating blood pressure. This fruit acid is often used by some as a final hair-rinse.

A look at how the minerals contribute to the overall health of a person is very fascinating. The potassium present in apple cider vinegar is vital because it helps to remove the excess water and also the toxic waste. The excess of sodium is also drawn out and it helps to regulate blood pressure. Calcium, which is important for the bones and for combating osteoporosis, is an important constituent of apple cider vinegar. The beta carotene actually is supposed to help people to retain their youth longer as it counters effectively the damage made by free radicals..

The virtues of apple cider vinegar seem to extend itself beyond normal peripheries. Every constituent seems to play an important role. The malic acid and acetic acid present help to combat fungal and bacterial infections and relieves painful joints. The malic acid dissolves the deposits of uric acid, which form around the joints, and slowly pushes the acid deposits out of the body. It seems to even have some effect on viruses. The amino acids present in apple cider vinegar act as an antibiotic and an antiseptic. It has been known to drastically reduce the toxicity in the body. This is because the acetic acid is able to form acetate compounds, which are not so toxic. This property makes it very useful while treating insect bites and skin allergies.

Arthritis has plagued people for centuries and apple cider combined with centella actually relieves pain due to arthritis. By Strengthening arteries and assisting in healing of wounds, improving skin lesions and reducing the effects of varicose veins, apple cider vinegar has been elevated to the status of a total health benefit product. It reduces stress and tension and revitalizes the body. The health benefits of apple cider vinegar just cannot be ignored.

Apple cider vinegar speeds up metabolism especially when taken regularly before meals and if used in conjunction with a sensible diet and exercise program it can be a powerful aid in keeping your weight under control.. Apple cider vinegar has less salt, less sugar and less fat, helps in digestion and helps in the metabolism of food. If the metabolic activity increases, then more food is used to get energy and less of it is stored as fat. So if you want to lose weight, use apple cider vinegar.

Possibly what contributes to the all round potency of apple cider vinegar is the number of enzymes and organic acids produced during the 2 fermentations. apple cider vinegar is claimed to be a natural multi vitamin and mineral treasure house. Even Hippocrates—the father of medicine acknowledged the wonderful healing properties of apple cider vinegar.

[Kelgar]

Of course, this shit is far cheaper and easier to find.

[Wonko Wenusberg]

Oh coffee !

Long work days, massive paper work, 10 big cups of coffe and your stomach sounds like a top notch jacuzzi when walking home.

[Kylere]

I drink 20 cups of coffeee a day (Pot cups, which equates to 10 actual cups American) but I have given up all chocolate except for http://www.dagobachocolate.com/store/home.php?cat=3 the Eclipse 87% Cacao bars from a company that promotes single source, sustainable production.

[Deward]

If you have a choice between raw and roasted nuts then always take raw. During the process of roasting a nut, the beneficial oils inside are changed so that they are actually harmful.

[Siji]

jagged, nervous stimulation

Mmmm.. ephedra.

[Winnow]

If you have a choice between raw and roasted nuts then always take raw. During the process of roasting a nut, the beneficial oils inside are changed so that they are actually harmful.

Yeah, The stuff above is the raw, unroasted variety.

Man, I feel great today. Got some sleep (which alone is a huge help), took three handfuls of cacao this morning and am feeling great. I poured a little coffee and am taking small drinks to ease out of the caffeine addiction over the next few days just like I did last time.

For anyone trying this, just remember, you aren't doing this for the taste. Raw Cacao tastes bitter. It's not bad tasting but it certainly isn't something that will make your tastebuds happy like chocolate. The payoff is 10 hours of feeling good with zero addiction/withdrawal symptoms and a total lack of the nervous/tension part of caffeine...in fact replacing that, among the long list of benefits, is a mild anti depressant (see articles). I could shit my pants and squish around in the mess all day and still be smiling. (think Office Space) Cacao.

[Boogahz]

I could shit my pants and squish around in the mess all day and still be smiling.

That right there is reason enough to stay away from these!

[Winnow]

I could shit my pants and squish around in the mess all day and still be smiling.

That right there is reason enough to stay away from these!

I always leave an easy out in my posts for the people who aren't going to try it out anyway. : )

[Bubba Grizz]

So let me get this right. You actually eat the bean instead of grinding it up and filtering water through it? Are they good munchy food? You know, instead of eating an M&M you can munch on these. Though the taste is way off the mark I would imagine.

[Winnow]

So let me get this right. You actually eat the bean instead of grinding it up and filtering water through it? Are they good munchy food? You know, instead of eating an M&M you can munch on these. Though the taste is way off the mark I would imagine.

The bean itself is pretty big. "Nibs" are the bean broken up into what looks like crunched nuts (check the picture a few posts above). You could eat them like a snack but because they aren't the best tasting thing in the world, I prefer taking larger handfuls all at once. You could always mix them into a milkshake or put them on ice cream as a topping etc.

[Aabidano]

So here is my question... Winnow, have you had any changes in bowel movement since eating these daily?

They will make you shit like clockwork. Might just be the extra roughage though.

I bought a bag a couple days ago, after the initial shock they taste pretty good. And the kids\cats won't eat them, always a plus in my house.

[Winnow]

Don't forget about Cacao!

http://www.sunfood.com/b2c/ecom/ecomEnd ... cacao.aspx

That chart I made in the first post of this thread is all screwed up. Guess it doesn't for for Firefox! Wish phpBB had a decent table making function.

[Canelek]

fuck off, winnow

I miss kyoukan.


Beans still working out for you then?