Democrats thrown out of their church

[Sionistic]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,155815,00.html

WAYNESVILLE, N.C. — A pastor who led a charge to kick out nine church members who refused to support President Bush (search) was the talk of the town Saturday in this mountain hamlet, with ousted congregants considering hiring a lawyer.

Pastor Chan Chandler (search) greeted people at the door of tiny East Waynesville Baptist Church on Saturday evening as the church choir practiced and even welcomed them to attend services Sunday morning — if there's room inside. But he was not prepared to talk about his mixing of religion and politics.

What im worried about is how many churches actually do follow this kind of black and white thinking.

[Nick]

Not so free country.

[Canelek]

Free in many things, but 'free' isn't so literal a term when regarding many forms of christianity....it is the irony that holds since the country was founded. Henry Ford knew what was up when he made his car company motto.


If that went over anyone's head.....it is a damn shame.

[Niffoni]

Hey, I've got an idea, since churches are so into being a big-time players in American politics, how about they start paying taxes, like real organizations!

/em watches every group of "christian" right shitstains simultaniously shut the fuck up.

[Pherr the Dorf]

Free in many things, but 'free' isn't so literal a term when regarding many forms of christianity....it is the irony that holds since the country was founded. Henry Ford knew what was up when he made his car company motto.


If that went over anyone's head.....it is a damn shame.

Hitler was a huge fan of Ford... and that was not a one way feeling. Ford was one of Hitler's biggest backers abroad

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

What im worried about is how many churches actually do follow this kind of black and white thinking.

Ummm.....one. And this is not representative of churches. This guy is going to end up getting booted by the church for this. The people in the church can and will have idiots like this removed.

Do you idiots sit around all day looking for things about the US to criticize? I mean besides that clown Teeny? Why don't you work on your own country first asshat? Oh yeah...because your country is so insignificant in the overall scheme of things on this planet that you would rather spend your valuable time worrying about a country that you not only don't live in, but is 2000 miles away, and is on friendly terms with your "country".

[Nick]

Haha, I do, and you're an ignorant retarded gun toting hick cumstain "in the overall scheme of things."

[Sionistic]

I never said this was representative of all churches. I said many other churches might follow this line of thinking. While maybe they dont do things like kick people out, the other members might make certain people feel uncomfortable while attending.

As for the people of that church kicking him out. I saw this story first on cnn, but it was a video only. The members that were kicked out talked about how other members of the church clapped and cheered when this happened.

[Canelek]

I think Nick was referring to the irony of our country being partially founded on freedom of religion and that the particular 'freedom' is kind of a joke when it comes to people's religious affiliation and their anciliary beliefs.

Guy1: "Oh hey cool, welcome aboard fellow christian!"
Guy2: "Thanks, eh!"
Guy1: "How's aboat them Republicans, eh?"
Guy2: "Uh, er I voted for that other hoser."
Guy1: "Oh well, uh, we like uh, don't want you here, eh?"
Guy2: "But I am a christian, wtf?"
Guy1: "sorry, guy2."

Ok, so that doesn't really play directly into religion per se, but I think I at least loosely got it.

[Nick]

It's very straightforward.

Any church in a free democracy (especially the supposed most free country - a joke) that turns people away based on party political affiliation is in fact not a free country in the sense of the word that has previously existed since the USA's inception.

Kilmoll can point out my 'anti US hatred' all he wants, I'm not the one rampaging around the world murdering innocent people.

Wow, what a surprise, someone outside the US taking a little bit of interest pondering what makes the most heavily armed country on the planet so incapable of respecting other peoples choices!

The answer? People like "kilmoll the sexy".

[Canelek]

On the other hand Nick... Our country does not run the churches, even though the churches do indeed rule some of our prominent politicians from time to time.

That, and some of our political folks can use the church as a trump card to gain that extra % of votes.

[Nick]

Moral and social decay are the responsibility of the people, not the government, or the churches.

Eg - letting someone lunatic like Ann Coulter on tv? WTF?

[Aslanna]

Any church in a free democracy (especially the supposed most free country - a joke) that turns people away based on party political affiliation is in fact not a free country in the sense of the word that has previously existed since the USA's inception.

As Fash said.. wtf.. The country is not the one running that particular church. Your logic is totally faulty due to your blind hatred of America. Which is once again obvious.

[Nick]

Blind hatred implies there is no reason to "hate" America (your words).

This is clearly a stupid assumption.

[Winnow]

Blind hatred implies there is no reason to "hate" America (your words).

This is clearly a stupid assumption.

We could ridicule Northern Ireland all day long. Someone from N Ireland saying ANYTHING about religious intolerance is a joke. Look around you. Are the catholics and protestants having gang bangs together these days? Must be time for some race hate!

Intolerance in Northern Ireland: Religion, and Now Race

New York Times/January 22, 2004
By Lizette Alvarez

Belfast, Northern Ireland -- The young couple from China were sitting in front of the television set in their newly rented row house in South Belfast, just before Christmas, when they heard glass shatter.

They looked up to see two men standing in their living room with bricks in their hands. One of them battered the Chinese man's face repeatedly. When his wife, nine months pregnant, ran to help, they punched her in the face and tossed her to the ground. Then the men demanded money.

The attack drew a crowd of curious neighbors, who watched the men walk out of the couple's home.

"The men got nervous and left," said the 31-year-old wife, who with her husband and new baby is now homeless and living rent-free at the Balfour Hotel here. The woman, fearful of more violence, requested anonymity. "Everyone just watched them walk out. Nobody did anything."

Although the police arrested one man, he has not been charged and is now free, pending forensics, said a police spokesman.

Belfast, once the engine of violence between Catholics and Protestants, is being seized by a new kind of hostility - racism, fueled in large part by the recent arrival of Asians, blacks, Indians and Pakistanis in Northern Ireland, which in 2001 was still 99 percent white.

During the so-called Troubles, the violent 30-year conflict between Catholics and Protestants here, few immigrants, no matter how desperate, chose to settle in Northern Ireland. That slowly began to change with the 1998 Good Friday Agreement, which ushered in a period of relative peace and prosperity.

Foreigners looking for jobs, primarily in the health care, restaurant and university sectors, started to trickle in, most of them unaware of the Byzantine rules, credos and allegiances that govern Northern Ireland. Few speak English well, and most stand out because of their skin color.

As a result, the number of attacks on foreigners has jumped sharply, particularly in the hardscrabble neighborhood called the Village in South Belfast, which is populated by people called loyalists for their fierce allegiance to the British crown. From April through December, 212 racist incidents were recorded in Northern Ireland, ranging from assault to arson, police statistics show. Five years ago, only a handful of such incidents were reported.

The violence has worsened lately. In the last two months, a six-foot plank was thrown through the window of a Pakistani home, two houses have been pipe bombed, one occupied by a Ugandan family the other by Romanians, and another Chinese family was forced to flee its home after being threatened by a gang.

Filipino nurses walking home are routinely harassed and physically threatened, said a local official of the hospital workers' union. Children are being bullied. In an interview, a local real estate agent, William Faulkner, said he was warned not to rent to foreigners before his office was firebombed. Swastikas and racist words now compete for wall space with anti-Catholic vitriol and Protestant murals of paramilitaries carrying assault weapons.

Political officials and advocates of immigrants' rights say they can pinpoint the flash points. With few exceptions, racially motivated attacks have taken place in Protestant working-class neighborhoods like the Village and on streets controlled by loyalist paramilitary groups. It is common knowledge that loyalist leaders can just as easily start trouble as end trouble in these neighborhoods, and people who fall out of line know the consequences, city and immigrant group leaders say.

"Very little goes on in those areas that people don't learn about very quickly," said Ken Fraser, who works for the Race Equality Unit in the office of the first minister. "Typically, you steal cars in the wrong area and your kneecaps hear about it."

David Ervine, leader of the Progressive Unionist Party, which represents the Ulster Voluntary Force, a loyalist paramilitary group, said that a small group of troublemakers were responsible, "and I have no doubt that some of these are paramilitaries."

"We certainly have a problem, but it's not so different from other communities who have been exposed to immigrants for the first time," he said. "You hear, `They are taking our jobs and our houses.' " But to blame paramilitary leaders is to oversimplify and exaggerate their power nowadays, he said.

The city indeed finds itself struggling to stop the violence. For decades, Northern Ireland has shaped itself - its institutions, its property maps, its laws - through the prism of Catholic and Protestant divisions. The police department, for example, must be 50 percent Catholic, 50 percent Protestant. But there is no requirement for ethnic minorities.

Politicians are planning to toughen hate crime laws, and the city is busy forming new groups to deal with racism. But the larger problem is getting the laws enforced and people to cooperate.

"For these racial attacks, there is never any information put forward by local people," said Patrick Yu, head of the Northern Ireland Council for Ethnic Minorities. "No information, no arrests, no prosecutions."

After the decades of violence, Belfast is trying to brighten its cultural and financial image in the European community, and for its mayor, Martin Morgan, quelling the attacks is crucial to dispelling the city's reputation as a violent backwater.

"We must not be dragged down by bigotry, hatred and intolerance," Mr. Morgan said. "How we are perceived has a direct effect on our ability to develop and thrive as a city. We cannot ignore these issues."

[Nick]

Go for it, I am perfectly up for it.

There is a subtle difference, you won't see me defending it.

Personally those people are a bunch of fucking morons. Acting as a mediator (which I volunteered to do) this summer involves sitting in the middle of these tribal fucks and noting down what happens during the marches and flashpoints.

I will be bricked and stoned, along with other volunteers, by these ignorant fucking rednecks, simply for trying to bring a bit of positive change to the place.

A bit like somewhere else I visit....

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Go for it, I am perfectly up for it.

There is a subtle difference, you won't see me defending it.

Personally those people are a bunch of fucking morons. Acting as a mediator (which I volunteered to do) this summer involves sitting in the middle of these tribal fucks and noting down what happens during the marches and flashpoints.

I will be bricked and stoned, along with other volunteers, by these ignorant fucking rednecks, simply for trying to bring a bit of positive change to the place.

A bit like somewhere else I visit....

What do you like then? What do you respect? Anything?

[Xzion]

Go for it, I am perfectly up for it.

There is a subtle difference, you won't see me defending it.

Personally those people are a bunch of fucking morons. Acting as a mediator (which I volunteered to do) this summer involves sitting in the middle of these tribal fucks and noting down what happens during the marches and flashpoints.

I will be bricked and stoned, along with other volunteers, by these ignorant fucking rednecks, simply for trying to bring a bit of positive change to the place.

A bit like somewhere else I visit....

theres actually "rednecks" in n ireland!?

[Nick]

Are you suggesting I should respect bigots and racists Mid?

I think it's fairly obvious and self explanatory what I respect. As such I won't dignify your retarded assumptions.

[Kelshara]

Hey, I've got an idea, since churches are so into being a big-time players in American politics, how about they start paying taxes, like real organizations!

/em watches every group of "christian" right shitstains simultaniously shut the fuck up.

[nobody]

have i mentioned that i'm mormon?

[Chmee]

Any church in a free democracy (especially the supposed most free country - a joke) that turns people away based on party political affiliation is in fact not a free country in the sense of the word that has previously existed since the USA's inception.

What the church did is wrong in my opinion. However, trying to say that it is an example of the U.S. not being free is also incorrect. Freedom includes freedom of association. If the leadership of a church wants to restrict their membership based on politcal persuasion then that is their perogative. People however are also free to criticize that decision, to join other churches with less restrictive policies, form new churches, or try to get the leadership changed. But allowing private organizations the right to determine their own membership requirements is an expression of freedom. That being said I wouldn't be suprised if the politicians in Washington try to interfere with that freedom.

[Metanis]

Any church in a free democracy (especially the supposed most free country - a joke) that turns people away based on party political affiliation is in fact not a free country in the sense of the word that has previously existed since the USA's inception.

What the church did is wrong in my opinion. However, trying to say that it is an example of the U.S. not being free is also incorrect. Freedom includes freedom of association. If the leadership of a church wants to restrict their membership based on politcal persuasion then that is their perogative. People however are also free to criticize that decision, to join other churches with less restrictive policies, form new churches, or try to get the leadership changed. But allowing private organizations the right to determine their own membership requirements is an expression of freedom. That being said I wouldn't be suprised if the politicians in Washington try to interfere with that freedom.

Well said.

As the President of a small Lutheran congregation here I can state very emphatically that we try to leave politics outsde the door. We don't have any overt rules about politics but we try to shy away from anything that would generate conflict or animosity amongst our group.

One misconception among the unwashed heathens is that Christians are a monolithic block consumed with moral indignity. But it turns out there are a billion different personal interpretations of WWJD.

[kyoukan]

actually one of the main stipulations that keeps a religious organization's tax exempt status is not being able to discrimminate by political affiliation. however it's once again nice to see the lip service fundies crawl out of the woodwork to defend this kind of bullshit.

[Xzion]

today for my nephew's baptism i had to sit threw a presbyterian (sp) church service, and i heard one of the most militant close minded preachers i have ever heard, the entire time he spoke about restricting kids from spending too much time around "the anti christian media" and how people like hugh heffner became evil from influence of the media and not there parents, christians love to make it sound like there "oppressed" in this modern society, when they fucking control everything...last week he also apparently spoke about the evils of homosexuality which i still cannot understand

why the hell cant Christians talk about acceptance and the alleged teachings of Christ that involved open mindedness peace and acceptance of all...keep in mind jesus ate and hung around the prostitutes, the lepers, and the outcasts of society, not rich wasp assholes on a mission to force everyone to conform to there beliefs


about this specific incident...i agree that the church has the right to accept or not accept whoever they want, no matter how hypocritical they come out to be…of course regarding the fact that it is a private organization and not funded by a higher source, unless that higher source (other then the government) would grant them the freedom to do so

freedom needs to be defended, even if comes in the form of assholes not accepting people into there church because of there affiliation, we cant “pick and choose” which freedoms to accept

[Jice Virago]

To be fair Met, and you know this as well as I, the nature of churches is a lot different in Wisconsin (and the midwest in general) than, say the south. Even in Cali I have seen churches pimping for the GOP, to say nothing of the kind of crap that goes on in Southern Baptist areas. The midwest is a lot more laid back than other parts of the country about both religion and politics.

That said, churches are protected under the constitution and are within their rights to exclude anyone they want for whatever hairbrained reason. Its up to the leadership of that church and (ostensibly) its congregation to decide what is acceptable for its members. It could be argued that churches that actively campaign for one political canidate over another should be classified as PACs, but good luck getting that one through a GOP (read God's Own Party) through congress.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Are you suggesting I should respect bigots and racists Mid?

I think it's fairly obvious and self explanatory what I respect. As such I won't dignify your retarded assumptions.

uh-huh

Way to avoid the question. Stop filling your responses with your distractions and just answer. I think it is fairly reasonable to ask a person filled with so much hatred and disgust, if they have any genuine respect and like for anything at all.

Care to answer or just trash me some more so you can think you look cool?

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

actually one of the main stipulations that keeps a religious organization's tax exempt status is not being able to discrimminate by political affiliation. however it's once again nice to see the lip service fundies crawl out of the woodwork to defend this kind of bullshit.

No one is defending it. Everyone thinks this pastor is a dumbass and should be booted from the church. If it was not for Teeny being a dumbfuck, not one of us would ever have posted anything that remotely looked supportive of it.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

I will be bricked and stoned, along with other volunteers, by these ignorant fucking rednecks, simply for trying to bring a bit of positive change to the place.

I know several people who would like to know where we send the donations to the people who will be throwing the bricks. Me and Sylvos alone should be able to raise enough to throw a driveway at your punk ass.

[Xzion]

heh N ireland

I believe mary slept with joseph!!!!

i believe mary did not sleep with jospeh!!!!! and il fucking kill you

you godamned hethon, mary slept with joseph 4 times!, heres a fucking bomb!


at least christians and muslims are somewhat different, catholics and protestants are the same exact fucking thing with different names

[Nick]

Avoiding the question Mid? That's rich coming from you, the king of unanswered questions. Really, I'll answer this question, as long as you stop being such a fucking hypocrite in this regard.

I appreciate people with an open, peace-minded intellect who bother to educate themselves of the time they happen to exist in.

I also respect people's freedom of religion, just don't try and force it on me thanks!

I also love Music, that's good music, such as Tool - Godspeed - Sigur Ros - Radiohead etc. I also have an interest in outer Space, playing a few different instruments and reading.

Not to mention video games.

Fuckloads of other things take up my time/respect/enjoyment but frankly I am not about to sit here justifying myself to the ends of the Earth to a Pro bush (edit: add muslim hating) Retard.
The not getting Tool alone is enough to make me despise you!

I do not respect the oppression of innocent people, murder or bloodlust.
Or people who go to war on the flimsiest of excuses.
Or ignorant morons who throw opinions around with no base of facts or relevance to support them.
That is not unjustifiable or unusual, as only the worst type of human being could begin to assume.

It's fucking hilarious watching Kilmoll get all pissed up from a 4 word sentence I first posted. Retard much? thx. It's GREAT being a 'liberal pussy' who pisses off dickheads like that!
Your days are numbered, evolution exists, as such, we won't need to worry about your kind forever.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Your days are numbered, evolution exists, as such, we won't need to worry about your kind forever.

When our kind goes, you won't have anyone to protect you. Your demise will soon follow.

[Nick]

Oh I'm quaking in my little space boots!

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

It's fucking hilarious watching Kilmoll get all pissed up from a 4 word sentence I first posted. Retard much? thx. It's GREAT being a 'liberal pussy' who pisses off dickheads like that!
Your days are numbered, evolution exists, as such, we won't need to worry about your kind forever.

While the Republicans are in office, you should start worrying. Just a matter of time before your little shithole is deemed part of the axis of evil with its little terrorist fags.

[Bubba Grizz]

China and Russia both have a large arsenal of nukes and weaponry and they have a number of questionable things going on with them as well. I wonder why they don't get any press time here on these boards. (I guess mainly it is because there aren't a lot of Chinese and Russians on the boards.)

Basically all the ranting going on about the US is being performed for an audiance that really isn't in position to do much of anything about it besides voting. Even without the mighty 2-300 votes for Bush (exageration) from this board, Bush would still have won. So unless Nick and Kyo (and people who think the same) are campaigning across a few hundred different boards what they are saying is only reaching a few people.

I guess the reason people get so pissed about what is said is because they love their country. It is like the same love a parent has for a child that gets into trouble. You don't agree with everything it does but you still love it just the same. That is why most of us get defensive when our country gets bashed. All in all it is very good drama for the boards.

Oh and to stay on topic...I believe this guy over stepped his bounds.

[Atokal]

actually one of the main stipulations that keeps a religious organization's tax exempt status is not being able to discrimminate by political affiliation. however it's once again nice to see the lip service fundies crawl out of the woodwork to defend this kind of bullshit.

Who is defending it?

Nice to see the mental midgets crawling out of the woodwork, taking a small church, in a small town, with a small congregation and saying this is representative of all churches in America.

Now if the new pope stated that all Dems should be booted from the Holy Church, then you can start your bitching and moaning.

What this little church did was wrong. Period.

Nick, when you volunteer for this mediation are you strictly an observer or are you involved in discussions of some sort and what groups are you working with, Religious only?

[Niffoni]

I actually think it's good to blow things out of proportion now and again. The public outcry about this minor incident sends a message to any other jackoffs who want to give Jeebus a party affiliation. They know now that they aren't gonna get a lot of support.

I honestly find it fascinating how politicized the American church is compared with the rest of the world (theocracies aside), and i say that with absolutely no smuggness whatsoever, it's just genuinely bizzare. Not with regards to this incident, but on a lesser level in general, as someone who spends a good bit of time down there, and attends mass. It really is a different world entirely.

[Voronwë]

Karl Rove has been using churches to do his grass roots campaigning since he was doing George Bush's gubernatorial campaigns (if not before).

the organization is already there, outsource the work to people (preachers) who already are respected leaders of potentially sympathetic voters.

[Aabidano]

Churches as a private organization can include\exclude whoever they want for whatever reason(s) they want. That doesn't impact their tax exempt status at all. If they were recipients of public funding for programs they run, then they could have problems but that isn't the case here.

Similar to the trouble the NAACP let themselves get into recently, non-profit groups that actively campaign for one political canidate over another have the potential of losing their exempt status. Or at least having to go through the hassle of defending it.

*Edit - I don't agree with it, but they're poerfectly within their rights....

[*~*stragi*~*]

nazi pope declares democracy the debils work.

[cid]

Hitler was a huge fan of Ford... and that was not a one way feeling. Ford was one of Hitler's biggest backers abroad

So was the Vatican

[Marbus]

Xzion, I pray that you weren't in a Presbyterian church that is affiliated with Presbyterian USA because we don't preach that. We preach what you said you wanted to hear in the second paragraph.

Thanks Kyou, exactly what I was going to say. If you want to be a Church and be tax exempt then STFU about politics.

Marb

[Xzion]

Xzion, I pray that you weren't in a Presbyterian church that is affiliated with Presbyterian USA because we don't preach that. We preach what you said you wanted to hear in the second paragraph.

Thanks Kyou, exactly what I was going to say. If you want to be a Church and be tax exempt then STFU about politics.

Marb

i think they had a new preacher...i went to 2 other services in that church for neices and cousins baptisms...and i actually remember them having a more open minded and positive preacher...but this guy really got to me, was a very painful hour to sit threw heh

[cid]

WoW

Was doing some surfing and came across this

http://resumes.researchpronto.com/direc ... ctive.html

150,000 People
Will Die Today
The counter to the side is ticking off the number of people who have died since you opened this webpage. The vast majority of those people are entering Hell. Christ commanded his followers to share the Gospel with those who are perishing... who have you shared with today?

This is what gives religon a bad name.

[Homercles]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/10/church ... index.html

A Baptist preacher accused of running out nine congregants who disagreed with his Republican politics resigned Tuesday,

Thought Id post the resolution of this matter. Didnt want Teeny and Kooky thinking it was nationally accepted and encouraged to banish members of a congregation based on politics.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/10/church ... index.html

A Baptist preacher accused of running out nine congregants who disagreed with his Republican politics resigned Tuesday,

Thought Id post the resolution of this matter. Didnt want Teeny and Kooky thinking it was nationally accepted and encouraged to banish members of a congregation based on politics.

NO!!! THIS CANT BE!!! THOSE EVIL AMERICANS SUPPORT HIM!!! I JUST KNOW IT!!!!

[Sionistic]

Good riddance

[Nick]

Good to see, good to see.

Also good to see Midnyte is still a dribbling spastic.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

Good to see you are a sensationalist prick. You should join the media.

[Voronwë]

Good to see you are a sensationalist prick. You should join the media.

Rev. Kilmoll is out of a job is what he is really saying!