Missing link found:Creationists choke on more evolution cack

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » May 6, 2005, 2:18 am

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7736120/

Caught in the act of evolution, the odd-looking, feathered dinosaur was becoming more vegetarian, moving away from its meat-eating ancestors.

It had the built-for-speed legs of meat-eaters, but was developing the bigger belly of plant-eaters. It had already lost the serrated teeth needed for tearing flesh. Those were replaced with the smaller, duller vegetarian variety.

“I doubt seriously this animal could cut a steak with that mouth,” said Utah state paleontologist James Kirkland, one of those who discovered the bones of the beast in east-central Utah.

The scientists dubbed it Falcarius utahensis. Bones from hundreds or maybe thousands of these dinosaurs were discovered at a two-acre dig site south of the town of Green River. Nobody knows why they gathered there or what killed them, Kirkland said.

It ate plants, but its bones show the transition from its carnivorous ancestors while still in progress.

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kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » May 6, 2005, 3:25 am

Like anyone takes creationists seriously anyway.

nobody · Post by **nobody** » May 6, 2005, 3:36 am

look, i am mormon, i believe in God and that He created everything. i also believe in evolution, especially given the evidence provided. i find it hard to believe that any sane person can accept that people, animals, or anything for that matter magically appeared out of thin air. i'm really curious, does anyone here think that or is it all a big joke?

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » May 6, 2005, 4:03 am

kyoukan wrote:Like anyone takes creationists seriously anyway.

Creationists are pretty flipped. I would normally avoid conversation with their type, but it is impossible to abstain from a conversation with stupidity, for curiosity's sake. I mean, come on, how often do we really get a chance to converse with the truly ridiculous?

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » May 6, 2005, 7:55 am

On this board? Everyday...

Nick · Post by **Nick** » May 6, 2005, 8:23 am

Man I was just involved in a conversation with a girl on http://www.faceparty.com that made Cartalas seem like fucking Einstein.

*shudder*

I feel weird now.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » May 6, 2005, 9:10 am

I thought "The" missing link was supposed to be between Ape and Human. I think all those dinosaurs were rounded up and slaughtered by the Meat Eaters for being different.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » May 6, 2005, 9:27 am

Nick wrote:Man I was just involved in a conversation with a girl on http://www.faceparty.com that made Cartalas seem like fucking Einstein.

*shudder*

I feel weird now.

Holy Shit!!!!! Net Nanny let you through?

Atokal · Post by **Atokal** » May 6, 2005, 9:47 am

Canelek wrote:
kyoukan wrote:Like anyone takes creationists seriously anyway.
Creationists are pretty flipped. I would normally avoid conversation with their type, but it is impossible to abstain from a conversation with stupidity, for curiosity's sake. I mean, come on, how often do we really get a chance to converse with the truly ridiculous?

Oh and your not so imaginary theory is what?

That you and Kyoukan evolved from apes?
That the incredible variety of life on this planet was a cosmic accident?

HA and that is a more palatable fairy tale than that which creationists believe?

This dino doc says that the bones show a dinosaur that is clearly in transition from carnivour to herbivour, I submit this was an omnivour, you know like the common fucking bear.

Further the claim that it was built for speed like a meat eater is absolutely fucking retarded, have a look at the osterich a pretty fast herbivour. The speed factor was no doubt a survival feature so it didn't become a meal.

How the hell did they know the thing had feathers?

Even with bones and fossils, all of this scientific fact is really just theory.

Burke · Post by **Burke** » May 6, 2005, 10:57 am

It is called the Theory of Evolution, tardo. And it is open to new data and reexamination and reinterpretation, via the Scientific Method. Creationism is a story which is not open to the same process.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » May 6, 2005, 10:57 am

nobody wrote:look, i am mormon

Whoa! stop right there, you're done.

Animale · Post by **Animale** » May 6, 2005, 11:25 am

As I've said before...
The Theory of Evolution is just that, a thoery. Kind of like the Theory of Gravity, String Theory, and the Atomic Theory... i.e. supposition that have been supported by all evidence up to now. Evolution does occur, we can see it occur, we can measure its occurance. The confusing thing to "creationists" is that scientists DO disagree on the exact mechanism by which is occurs (particularly on the cellular/genetic level) and that is what is currently under debate in the scientific community. Not the existence of evolution, but instead on the mechanism of it. Big difference.

Animale

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » May 6, 2005, 11:47 am

Evolution is not a theory

Natural Selection is a theory that explains the series of observed facts which are defined by the term evolution.

just like quantum gravity is a theory which describes the mechanism that explains the FACT that planets orbit stars, etc.

as has been stated and restated and restated, in common language, "theory" sounds like it is a pretty inconclusive statement.

In the language of science, a "theory" is an EXTREMELY well documented and thoroughly researched statement, supported by thousands - if not millions - of facts.

To elaborate this non-argument further.

Does anybody here doubt they will live to finish reading this post? It is probably several orders of magnitude more likely (if not a billion or trillion times) more likely that you (the reader) will drop dead by the end of the sentence, than evolution not having occurred on earth.

still there?

no i'm not trying to present a proof that your existence denies creationism. i am simply trying to illustrate that even though scientific theories can be accurately described as 'statements of probability' as opposed to 'irrufatable facts'; that even in spite of this, there are varying degrees of 'statements of probability' - many of which are for all practical purposes completely indistinguishible from facts.

as opposed to scenarios describing the earth as 6,000 years old, which is about as likely as the atoms in the air above my desk spontaneously reassembling themselves into a stack of million dollar bills.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 6, 2005, 12:33 pm

Truant wrote:
nobody wrote:look, i am mormon
Whoa! stop right there, you're done.

lol

Rivera Bladestrike · Post by **Rivera Bladestrike** » May 6, 2005, 12:36 pm

Haha, I was going to post something like that but I saw it had been done already.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » May 6, 2005, 1:15 pm

Looks like Atokal is off his meds.

Voronwë seems to have gotten smarter since he stopped playing EQ. Evolution in action!

Sylvos · Post by **Sylvos** » May 6, 2005, 1:21 pm

Truant wrote:
nobody wrote:look, i am mormon
Whoa! stop right there, you're done.

That right there is the funniest thing I've read all week.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » May 6, 2005, 1:26 pm

Aslanna wrote:Looks like Atokal is off his meds.

Voronwë seems to have gotten smarter since he stopped playing EQ. Evolution in action!

Meds are for queers, or subduing your "dates". Either way, real men like Toker don't partake.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » May 6, 2005, 3:05 pm

nobody wrote:look, i am mormon, i believe in God and that He created everything. i also believe in evolution, especially given the evidence provided. i find it hard to believe that any sane person can accept that people, animals, or anything for that matter magically appeared out of thin air. i'm really curious, does anyone here think that or is it all a big joke?

Not magically. Scientists have "created life" by putting all the right DNA building blocks in water and zapping it with electricity. This is what they believed was the foundation of the creation of DNA and replicating molecules. From there evolution began. They think that millions of years after the first DNA likely appeared in this way, the first cells appeared. Definitely not a Bam! Instant life thing.

As far as the creation of the universe, that's questionable. If everything has a cause, then the beginning of all things must as well. No one can scientifically answer the question of what that was yet. They have some pretty interesting theories.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » May 6, 2005, 4:10 pm

Atokal wrote: This dino doc says that the bones show a dinosaur that is clearly in transition from carnivour to herbivour, I submit this was an omnivour, you know like the common fucking bear.

And your expert knowledge of dental structures in dinosaurs comes from?...It's pretty bloody easy to make reasonable assumptions about an animal's niche from skeletal evidence. There are also a number of other clues you missed. Ever see a huge herd of terrestrial omnivores or carnivores?...No, because the biomass necessary to support a herd of the size of this only occurrs on land in plants. Omnivores and carnivores are solitary to small pack.

Atokal wrote: Further the claim that it was built for speed like a meat eater is absolutely fucking retarded, have a look at the osterich a pretty fast herbivour. The speed factor was no doubt a survival feature so it didn't become a meal.

I don't think he is basing his entire premise on the fact that they were built for speed as a sole trait for their carnivorous past...

...Predators have a number of very distinctive features...I'm sure if you'd bother to read the monograph on this fossil as opposed to a news blurb for pedestrians you would find a number of pieces of evidence supporting the hypothesis...Then again you are prolly far more clever at interpreting fossil evidence than someone who has spent his entire life interpreting it...

Atokal wrote: How the hell did they know the thing had feathers?

Feathers often leave a trace in sedimentary strata...as do leaves and even much more fragile structures.

Atokal wrote: Even with bones and fossils, all of this scientific fact is really just theory.

Right as opposed to "creation science" which has nothing more than anecdotal evidence...

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » May 6, 2005, 4:15 pm

more like "children's story" than "anecdotal evidence"

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » May 6, 2005, 4:20 pm

Voronwë wrote:more like "children's story" than "anecdotal evidence"

I was being generous...

Niffoni · Post by **Niffoni** » May 6, 2005, 4:24 pm

Settle down, guys. Toke is just asking questions. Angry, angry questions.

nobody · Post by **nobody** » May 6, 2005, 4:27 pm

Toker and Cart are the missing links between apes and humans.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » May 6, 2005, 4:45 pm

millions of galaxies each with millions of solar systems that each have dozens to hundreds of planets and the best explanation as to why we are here is because God created us?

It is statisically impossible for us not to be here.

Post by **Sylvus** » May 6, 2005, 4:55 pm

Oh, Arbor, you silly goof with your reason and facts.

The Devil put those fossils in the ground to test man's devotion to God, don't you know anything? Repent and be saved!

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » May 6, 2005, 4:59 pm

it is an amazing testament to scientific advancement, that a person can sit in front of a plastic box, that is filled with microprocessors, that is connected to a fiberoptic/coaxial line transmitting data across the internet, and hold the opinion that on balance scientific reasoning is prone to serious error and massive misinterpretation of objective reality.

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » May 6, 2005, 5:09 pm

kyoukan wrote:millions of galaxies each with millions of solar systems that each have dozens to hundreds of planets and the best explanation as to why we are here is because God created us?

It is statisically impossible for us not to be here.

Yet why is there existence and not simply just non existence? Logic would state that the universe would consist of nothingness….imo you have to be just as ignorant to have faith that there is no god as you do to have faith in one

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » May 6, 2005, 5:24 pm

Woah, this thread got funny!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 6, 2005, 5:44 pm

kyoukan wrote:millions of galaxies each with millions of solar systems that each have dozens to hundreds of planets and the best explanation as to why we are here is because God created us?

It is statisically impossible for us not to be here.

It's even more than that.

average # of stars in a galaxy = 100 billion
estimated # of galaxies in the known universe = 100 billion

There's 100 billion billion stars just in the known universe (give or take a bazillion) that we can see. We have no idea if we are just one of 100 billion universes because our technology doesn't allow us to see any deeper into space. There's other life out there. We aren't special and some bearded holy roller creationist dude had nothing to do with us being here. I'd bet all my VVs on it.

There's no point to this. I just like typing "billion billion" whenever I get a chance to.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » May 7, 2005, 12:07 am

I find it disturbing that some people actually think anything other than the whole cosmic accident theory, how self important are you?

Raistin · Post by **Raistin** » May 7, 2005, 1:02 am

I want to be look mormon also and have magical underware that protects me!

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » May 7, 2005, 4:55 am

Raistin wrote:I want to be look mormon also and have magical underware that protects me!

have another drink first, thirsty.

Hesten · Post by **Hesten** » May 7, 2005, 7:57 am

nobody wrote:Toker and Cart are the missing links between apes and humans.

Sorry Nobody, but youre dead wrong there. Toker might be the missing link, but Cartalas are what rocks evolved from.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » May 7, 2005, 1:02 pm

Nick wrote:I find it disturbing that some people actually think anything other than the whole cosmic accident theory, how self important are you?

Let's just take evolution as a given for now...

So, as far as the creation of the whole universe is concerned, I'd like to hear your theory. One of the laws of thermodynamics as I recall is energy/matter can not be created or destroyed.

So where did it come from?

Fash · Post by **Fash** » May 7, 2005, 4:20 pm

voronwe is dead on..

and it's the scale of things that creationists close their mind to.

we are but
1 of 1.2 billion species on earth, which is
1 of 9 planets orbiting the 'sun', which is
1 of 100,000,000,000 stars in our galaxy, which is
1 of 100,000,000,000 galaxies in the universe, which is
expanding in an expanse of space, that we cannot see the boundaries to

the closest star after the sun, would take 1 year travelling at the unlikely speed of 670,616,629 miles per hour... making it 5,874,601,670,000 miles away.

there was a time on earth when nothing organic was living, when certain compounds came together and dna started to form. it could have taken hundreds or thousands of years before the next step happened and cells started. but that's how it happened, all over this planet. millions of years of evolution and adaptation brought humans to be. capable as we are, some of us are far too gullible.

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » May 7, 2005, 5:15 pm

Fash wrote:voronwe is dead on..

and it's the scale of things that creationists close their mind to.

we are but
1 of 1.2 billion species on earth, which is
1 of 9 planets orbiting the 'sun', which is
1 of 100,000,000,000 stars in our galaxy, which is
1 of 100,000,000,000 galaxies in the universe, which is
expanding in an expanse of space, that we cannot see the boundaries to

the closest star after the sun, would take 1 year travelling at the unlikely speed of 670,616,629 miles per hour... making it 5,874,601,670,000 miles away.

there was a time on earth when nothing organic was living, when certain compounds came together and dna started to form. it could have taken hundreds or thousands of years before the next step happened and cells started. but that's how it happened, all over this planet. millions of years of evolution and adaptation brought humans to be. capable as we are, some of us are far too gullible.

Wrong. You're making our case for us. What caused that incomprehensibly rich and complex universe to occur?

Go back 1 second before the "Big Bang". I see God snapping his fingers and willing the creation of the universe.

I'm willing to accept this occurred many billions of years ago. I don't believe the book of Genesis was intended to be read like a literal calendar of events.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » May 7, 2005, 5:30 pm

Metanis wrote: Go back 1 second before the "Big Bang". I see God snapping his fingers and willing the creation of the universe.

So what made God exist? You don't ever get something for nothing...

Nick · Post by **Nick** » May 8, 2005, 12:03 am

You want to hear my answer?

Here it is, ready?

I have no fucking clue!

Do you?

In conclusion, no one knows, but frankly given the evidence found so far, I think i'm gonna err on the side of evolution (in reference to how life evolved from a chemical base) and "I have no idea" for what made the universe begin, maybe we are a part of something bigger than our own universe? Maybe there are a billion billion universes? I could do that all day, but it seems futile (and I don't have much time right now) given that I will never be capable of figuring out for myself what happened before time (as we know it) began.

Personally I see more possibilities in the concept of chance than some strict doctrine constructed by men.

Pretty straighforward to be honest........happy?

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » May 8, 2005, 12:15 am

Metanis wrote:Go back 1 second before the "Big Bang". I see God snapping his fingers and willing the creation of the universe.

Oh SNAP!

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » May 8, 2005, 12:18 am

I dont see why so many religious folks get upset at the big bang concept.
"Let there be light" big explosion, makes sense.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » May 8, 2005, 1:29 am

Nick wrote:You want to hear my answer?

Here it is, ready?

I have no fucking clue!

Do you?

In conclusion, no one knows, but frankly given the evidence found so far, I think i'm gonna err on the side of evolution (in reference to how life evolved from a chemical base) and "I have no idea" for what made the universe begin, maybe we are a part of something bigger than our own universe? Maybe there are a billion billion universes? I could do that all day, but it seems futile (and I don't have much time right now) given that I will never be capable of figuring out for myself what happened before time (as we know it) began.

Personally I see more possibilities in the concept of chance than some strict doctrine constructed by men.

Pretty straighforward to be honest........happy?

Very. That's about the same conclusion I've come to.

Dexail · Post by **Dexail** » May 8, 2005, 2:18 am

kyoukan wrote:millions of galaxies each with millions of solar systems that each have dozens to hundreds of planets and the best explanation as to why we are here is because God created us?

It is statisically impossible for us not to be here.

and according to that logic, it's statistically impossible that I'll be having tea tomorrow afternoon with little green men from a small planet near Belteguese.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » May 8, 2005, 2:23 am

Careful what you wish for Dex, you do live in GA.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » May 8, 2005, 4:19 am

Dexail wrote:and according to that logic, it's statistically impossible that I'll be having tea tomorrow afternoon with little green men from a small planet near Belteguese.

I didnt mean us specifically professor.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » May 8, 2005, 11:59 am

A being did not create and give us a perfect world. We were shaped by our environment to make it seem that way.

If you examine all the fantastic creatures on our planet, you will see that each and every one of the has evolved to fit thier specific environment. It's the same thing with plants and insects.

Creationists don't have a leg to stand on when facing a real debate on this subject. It's a non-discussion, plain and simple.

I see God snapping his fingers and willing the creation of the universe.

This is my favorite Christian comeback. SOMETHING had to start it all! There is no way it could have "always been". So, it must've been created by God. Well who created God? No one, he has always been...

It's perpetual stupidity. It simply never ends.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » May 9, 2005, 3:04 am

Metanis wrote:I don't believe the book of Genesis was intended to be read like a literal calendar of events.

Why is it that religious idiots are able to pick and choose which parts of the bible are correct, incorrect, factual, suggestive, etc..

I believe in God. And I believe he thinks you're a fucking idiot.

Kelfain · Post by **Kelfain** » May 9, 2005, 6:49 am

In the immortal words of Devo,

God made man
but he used a monkey to do it
Ape is the plan
We're all here to prove it
I can walk like an ape
Talk like an ape
Do what monkeys do
God made men
But monkeys applied the glue

Sylvos · Post by **Sylvos** » May 9, 2005, 9:54 am

I seriously can not believe some of you back the teaching of Creationism. That is beyond my realm of comprehension. It is not only illogical but it's absolute nonsense. Read a damn texbook for a change.

cid · Post by **cid** » May 9, 2005, 3:01 pm

This topic has me surfing and researching. I thought this was a good read.

http://emporium.turnpike.net/C/cs/quest.htm

Life from dead chemicals?
Evolutionists claim that life formed from non-life (dead chemicals), so-called "abiogenesis", even though it is a biological law ("biogenesis") that life only comes from life. The probability of the simplest imaginable replicating system forming by itself from non-living chemicals has been calculated to be so very small as to be essentially zero - much less than one chance in the number of electron-sized particles that could fit in the entire visible universe! Given these odds, is it reasonable to believe that life formed itself?