Chiefs to Heisman winner White: No thanks for now

nobody · Post by **nobody** » May 2, 2005, 9:12 pm

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/8437461

Former Heisman Trophy winner Jason White wasn't offered a contract by the Kansas City Chiefs following a three-day rookie camp.

that's gotta suck for him, especially after having reconstructive surgery on both knees.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 2, 2005, 9:15 pm

QB is not the position to play in college to give yourself the best chance in the NFL for quick big money contracts even if you're pretty good. It's the position least likely to make an instant impact for a football team so you get one or two uber QBs and the rest are lucky to be picked up on the second day of the draft.

Ty Detmer, Charlie Ward, Andre Ware...lots of lame Heisman winning QBs out there from the past.

Aevian Dreaklear · Post by **Aevian Dreaklear** » May 3, 2005, 2:42 am

This is always something I've wondered about Charlie Ward. Did he attempt to make it in the NFL or was the NBA his first choice?

Spang · Post by **Spang** » May 3, 2005, 10:18 am

he had no desire to play NFL football, if i remember correctly.

Deward · Post by **Deward** » May 3, 2005, 10:40 am

Players like White and Timmy Chang don't have much of a shot int he NFL. Their best bet is to play the arena league for a couple years to prove they can handle a higher level. If they excel there then maybe a team will give them a shot. It worked for Adrian McPherson. I doubt he would have been drafted if he didn't have the arena league experience.

Post by **Sylvus** » May 3, 2005, 11:19 am

You don't draft a QB out of the Big 12, that's just plain silly. Everyone knows that if you want to win a Super Bowl, you draft a Michigan QB, and if there isn't one available you go for any other school in the Big 10.

Don't worry, lots of young QBs in the Big 10 right now, so a good crop will come into the NFL in a couple years.

Maybe Jason White and Scott Frost could start an applebutter farm or something.

Alfan · Post by **Alfan** » May 3, 2005, 11:37 am

Yea, but if McPherson didn't suffer from personal issues and could have stayed at FSU for three full years he proably would have been drafted even higher, of course this is just speculation. He is a freak, though.

-alfan

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » May 3, 2005, 11:43 am

Jason White doesnt have an NFL arm. that's really the beginning and end of it.

Timmy CHang may end up holding a clipboard for 5 or 6 years, which is a hell of a lot better money than posting on this messageboard for a living....er i mean whatever it is i do.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » May 3, 2005, 3:38 pm

Have any current Michigan QB's besides Brady won a super bowl?

Edit: Answered my own question. The answer is NO.

In fact, if Brady hadn't turned from a late round pick into what he is now, the best Michigan QB would be Brian Griese

The list of active Super Bowl winning QB's:

Tom Brady, Michigan
Trent Dilfer, Fresno State
Brett Favre, Southern Miss
Brad Johnson, Florida State
Kurt Warner, Northern Iowa

So actually there aren't any other active super bowl winning QB's from the big ten. The logical recommendation seems to be to avoid the BCS conferences.

Ogbar · Post by **Ogbar** » May 5, 2005, 9:23 am

Here is a most unofficial complete list

Code: Select all


XXXIX	2005 New England Patriots	Tom Brady	Michigan
XXXVIII	2004 New England Patriots	Tom Brady	Michigan
XXXVII	2003 Tampa Bay Buccaneers	Brad Johnson	Florida State
XXXVI	2002 New England Patriots	Tom Brady	Michigan
XXXV	2001 Baltimore Ravens		Trent Dilfer	Fresno State
XXXIV	2000 St. Louis Rams		Kurn Warner	Northern Iowa
XXXIII	1999 Denver Broncos		John Elway	Standford
XXXII	1998 Denver Broncos		John Elway	Standford
XXXI	1997 Green Bay Packers		Brett Favre	Southern Mississippi
XXX	1996 Dallas Cowboys		Troy Aikman	UCLA
XXIX	1995 San Francisco 49ers	Steve Young	BYU
XXVIII	1994 Dallas Cowboys		Troy Aikman	UCLA
XXVII	1993 Dallas Cowboys		Troy Aikman	UCLA
XXVI	1992 Washington Redskins	Mark Rypien	Washington State
XXV	1991 New York Giants		Jeff Hostetler	West Virginia 
XXIV	1990 San Francisco 49ers	Joe Montana	Notre Dame
XXIII	1989 San Francisco 49ers	Joe Montana	Notre Dame
XXII	1988 Washington Redskins	Doug Williams	Grambling
XXI	1987 New York Giants		Phil Simms	Morehead State 
XIX	1985 San Francisco 49ers	Joe Montana	Notre Dame
XVIII	1984 LA Raiders			Jim Plunkett	Stanford
XVII	1983 Washington Redskins	Joe Theismann	Notre Dame
XVI	1982 San Francisco 49ers	Joe Montana	Notre Dame
XV	1981 Oakland Raiders		Jim Plunkett	Stanford
XIV	1980 Pittsburgh Steelers	Terry Bradshaw	Louisiana Tech
XIII	1979 Pittsburgh Steelers	Terry Bradshaw	Louisiana Tech
XII	1978 Dallas Cowboys		Roger Staubach	Navy
XI	1977 Oakland Raiders		Ken Stabler	Alabama
X	1976 Pittsburgh Steelers	Terry Bradshaw	Louisiana Tech
IX	1975 Pittsburgh Steelers	Terry Bradshaw	Louisiana Tech
VIII	1974 Miami Dolphins		Bob Griese	Purdue
VII	1973 Miami Dolphins		Bob Griese	Purdue
VI	1972 Dallas Cowboys		Roger Staubach	Navy
V	1971 Baltimore Colts		Johnny Unitas	Louisville
					Earl Morall	Michigan State
IV	1970 Kansas City Chiefs		Len Dawson	Purdue
III	1969 New York Jets		Joe Namath	Alabama
II	1968 Green Bay Packers		Bart Starr	Alabama
I	1967 Green Bay Packers		Bart Starr	Alabama

Sorry for the crappy formatting ....

Note that Earl Morall and Johnny U saw significant time in the Super Bowl V victory for the Colts, so they are both listed.

Phugg_Innay · Post by **Phugg_Innay** » May 5, 2005, 11:05 am

I noticed a LOT of Pac 10 in that list , at least recently. Aikman, Elway, Dilfer, and Way back Mr crooked nose himself Plunket. Lools pretty good for us out west.
Back kinda on topic , first/second round pics NEVER really come to fruition , they just dont. Most of the great QB's come from later rounds as do a lot of the recieving core etc.

Post by **Sylvus** » May 5, 2005, 11:09 am

Sueven wrote:Have any current Michigan QB's besides Brady won a super bowl?

Edit: Answered my own question. The answer is NO.

In fact, if Brady hadn't turned from a late round pick into what he is now, the best Michigan QB would be Brian Griese

The list of active Super Bowl winning QB's:

Tom Brady, Michigan
Trent Dilfer, Fresno State
Brett Favre, Southern Miss
Brad Johnson, Florida State
Kurt Warner, Northern Iowa

So actually there aren't any other active super bowl winning QB's from the big ten. The logical recommendation seems to be to avoid the BCS conferences.

Well, to make that official, let's list Brady's 3 Superbowl wins and two Superbowl MVPs, shall we? And I suppose you mention only Griese because you're focusing on active QBs? Because let's not forget about Jim Harbaugh or Elvis Grbac when talking about Michigan QBs that started NFL teams in the last 10 or 15 years.

Yes, I realize I'm way too big a Michigan fan, and I was exaggerating a bit in my initial assessment, but the fact remains that Big 12 QBs are no good in the NFL and that Big 10 QBs are better. And if you look at Ogbar's list there, Notre Dame might as well be a Big 10 school... the only reason they haven't joined the conference is because they are money-grubbing, Catholic douchebags. Not that we want them, I'm just saying that their QBs are tested in the Big 10 waters as much as any other conference.

In short, screw you guys, the Big 10 is the best conference in football.

Alfan · Post by **Alfan** » May 5, 2005, 11:42 am

11/19 -- you gonna be there Sylvus?

Post by **Sylvus** » May 5, 2005, 11:53 am

Of course I will be, I don't miss a home game. Nor do I miss the Wolverines playing at the big horseshoe.

See you then!

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » May 5, 2005, 2:30 pm

but the fact remains that Big 12 QBs are no good in the NFL and that Big 10 QBs are better.

That does seem to be true. There's not a single Big 12 QB on Ogbar's list.

Sylvus wrote:In short, screw you guys, the Big 10 is the best conference in football. Very Happy

You guys needed Penn State to be worth a shit. Maybe you'll be the best if and when they recover.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » May 5, 2005, 2:34 pm

If Super Bowl Champion is the measuring stick by which one is deemed "successful" in the NFL, then i think we will find that the vast majority of persons who have careers in the league are failures.

Like Dan Marino.

Post by **Sylvus** » May 5, 2005, 2:38 pm

While I won't argue that Dan Marino might be the most skilled QB in the history of the NFL, do you think - given a choice - the people responsible for a draft (owner, gm, coach, etc) would prefer a guy who will set all of the records and never win a superbowl, or a guy who will win three?

I realize no one person is the sole reason for a team winning the superbowl, just trying to gauge your opinion. Where did Marino go to college, anyway?

Alfan · Post by **Alfan** » May 5, 2005, 2:55 pm

He came out of Pitt. That year was ridiculous for quarterbacks: Jim Kelly, Marino, and of course the best of all of them in my opinion John Elway. But, yea, Pitt . . . they've had a few good ones over the years.

Sabek · Post by **Sabek** » May 5, 2005, 3:12 pm

Sylvus wrote:Of course I will be, I don't miss a home game. Nor do I miss the Wolverines losing at the big horseshoe.

See you then!

At least you are realistic about it.

Post by **Sylvus** » May 5, 2005, 3:20 pm

Boy you sure got me there, we've lost there like 2 or 3 times in the last 15 years!

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » May 5, 2005, 4:16 pm

Tom Brady is a great QB, and will go into the Hall of Fame.

HOWEVER, to say he is singularly - or even largely - responsible for 3 Super Bowl championships is a stretch.

The QB gets way too much of the glory in football, and anybody who would choose a QB like Brady over a QB like Peyton Manning (stat machine) is a freaking idiot who who would never rise above the level of Assistant to the Jock Strap Coordinator in a real NFL franchise.

So yeah Dan Marino >>>>>>>>> Tom Brady.

Post by **Sylvus** » May 5, 2005, 4:42 pm

Well, he has been Superbowl MVP 2 times... he's doing something right.

But the question was, is it the responsibility (or desire) of the front office to try and put together a team that will allow a guy to set all the carreer records in football, or to try and win Superbowls? 'Cause no other QB has won superbowls as well as Tom Brady in the last 10 years.

But I digress, my inital point was that if you want to win superbowls, don't go with a Big 12 QB, even if he won the Heisman. I think that still stands!

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » May 5, 2005, 5:17 pm

the answer to your question is Sylvos, is if you want to win superbowls, have a strongly balanced team with excellent coaches on both sides of the ball, and don't be afraid to cut older cornerbacks, and have a front office that can identify talent very well and negotiate good contracts that favor the team's financial structure

Post by **Sylvus** » May 5, 2005, 5:59 pm

wtf, i'm sylvus!

again, don't get me wrong, in my opinion the Pats won their Superbowls because Belichick is the greatest mind working in football and they just played better as a team than anyone else.

i think you'd probably be in my shoes in this conversation if it had been Gino Toretta instead of Tom Brady leading the Pats to those Superbowls!

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » May 5, 2005, 11:12 pm

LOL i cant believe i typed Sylv0s

to hell with Gino Torretta. I had a radio show in college and me and my partner were talking all kinds of smack about the Heisman when they gave it to him over Bledsoe (that is what happened right? i really dont remember college very well)

i think Brady is awesome dont get me wrong =).

Gamei · Post by **Gamei** » May 6, 2005, 9:49 pm

Speaking of smack, did anyone else listen to the Jim Rome show today? Smackoff 2005 and all that.

I thought it was great, was my first to listen to. I missed the entire first hour but I heard all the contender calls in the second hour. Really funny stuff.