Browser Nerds: Opera 8 vs Firefox

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 4, 2005, 6:48 pm

What's the big deal with these besides tabbed browsing and fantasies of better security?

What would make one or the other better? I'm thinking of trying out tabbed browsing to see how I'll like it when IE releases their next browser. Anything unique between the two of these?

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » May 4, 2005, 6:57 pm

I'm pretty sure the fantasies of better security are true. I'm by no means a Firefox or Opera fanboy but my reasoning is that IE is so widely distributed that it is less likely to be targetted. Now that Firefox is growing in popularity, it is more so than before but probably more secure than IE.

Firefox also lets you skin your browser, which is kind of cool, and Opera as I recall lets you assign mouse 'gestures' to commands.

Diae Soulmender · Post by **Diae Soulmender** » May 4, 2005, 7:07 pm

Opera = Spyware.

Dont think I need to say more.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » May 4, 2005, 7:59 pm

Eh? Since when did Opera ship with Spyware? Been a long time since I used it but it never had it then.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 4, 2005, 8:01 pm

Certain spyware sites have incorrectly included Opera in their spyware lists, ... Opera is adware, not spyware.

Hmmm, is Foxfire the same way? I don't really want extra advertisements when I'm surfing.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » May 4, 2005, 9:52 pm

Winnow wrote:
Certain spyware sites have incorrectly included Opera in their spyware lists, ... Opera is adware, not spyware.
Hmmm, is Foxfire the same way? I don't really want extra advertisements when I'm surfing.

Nope, no adware. I think it's literally a faster browser, but it doesn't support some of MSs 'extensions' to the standards. Rarely an issue until you find some jackass that insists on IE for their website; Windows Update of course, but also my bank

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » May 4, 2005, 10:08 pm

My bank was like that then they fixed it

I can't remember last time I was on a webpage except for Microsoft Update that doesn't work with Firefox.

Hoarmurath · Post by **Hoarmurath** » May 5, 2005, 9:33 am

Firefox is great. A lot of devout IE users say that tabbed browsing isn't that big of a deal, but I think it is absolutely HUGE. I forst started using a tabbed browser with Konqueror for KDE a while back, but I ended up switching to Firefox because it seemed more compatible. Of course, now I use Safari, but I still have tabs, so it's all good.

I think that once you get used to using tabs you'll wonder how you ever got along without them. Of course, Firefox has a number of other really great features, like Find As You Type and a bunch of other little details.

Personally, I think the only compelling reason reamining to use IE is that there are certain sites and applications that simply require IE, but I'd rather use Firefox full time and only use IE for those than ever bother using IE full time again.

(Disclaimer: I now have a Mac, so IE sucks for me anyway, since it is still version 5.2)

Deward · Post by **Deward** » May 5, 2005, 11:00 am

As a web developer and system admin, Firefox really pisses me off. It has a lot of trouble with secure web pages for some reason and will send thousands of requests against the web server for no good reason. About twice a month I have to go clean out millions of log entries that firefox made. I am contemplating banning it from use with my web pages.

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » May 5, 2005, 11:20 am

Word on the street is that you can disable the adds in opera fairly quickly and easily.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » May 5, 2005, 12:05 pm

If you want tabbed browsing in IE get Avant. Little quirky at times but I like it. Tried Firefox before but didn't like it. I like being able to save the pages I had open when I exit the browser (or it crashes). Firefox didn't seem to have that ability natively. And I say natively because I didn't feel like searching for and trying out extensions or whatever. If they added that I'd give it another try. Until that time Avant is good enough.

tabbed browsing.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 5, 2005, 1:01 pm

Aslanna wrote:If you want tabbed browsing in IE get Avant. Little quirky at times but I like it. Tried Firefox before but didn't like it. I like being able to save the pages I had open when I exit the browser (or it crashes). Firefox didn't seem to have that ability natively. And I say natively because I didn't feel like searching for and trying out extensions or whatever. If they added that I'd give it another try. Until that time Avant is good enough.

tabbed browsing.

I think I've tried Avant out before. That one allows you to open pages side by side or even in quadrants of the main page etc right? That might work well for high res monitors. I'm not sure why I didn't keep using it. I think because links were still associated with IE so that kept popping up when I clicked on links outside of Avant. Easily fixed I'm sure.

Deward wrote:About twice a month I have to go clean out millions of log entries that firefox made. I am contemplating banning it from use with my web pages.

Do it! Ban that shit! That's poor coding on Firefox's part.

archeiron · Post by **archeiron** » May 5, 2005, 1:51 pm

At the time that I switched, I was running AdAware and SpyBot daily and finding tons of crap (without evening hitting pr0n sites). I switched to Firefox and saw a massive drop in the amount of crap that was found. IE has since been updated, so this may be less of a problem than it was.

I like the skinnable interface of Firefox.
I like supporting clever people with bright ideas that are working hard on making something good.
I like the fact that I can download extensions to add Mouse Gestures, tab saving/recovery, etc.
I like the fact that I can view PNG transparencies.
I like the fact that I can test CSS features for personal web sites using a browser that is implemented to use CSS correctly (according to W3C standards)
I like the fact that it is being actively developed and enhanced, whereas IE has been a "dead" project for some time and is only just now starting to reveal minor upcoming upgrades when MS could be blazing trails way out ahead of everyone.

I don' t like the fact that some sites (including my bank) don't fully support the browser that I am using.
I don't like the fact that the "splendiferous, bestestest" browser that Firefox is supposed to be doesn't come close to support the W3C standards as well as Safari does.
I don't like the volatility (hit and miss) of some releases of Firefox.
I don't like how the browser doesn't integrate as well with my OS.

All in all, I would be happy to use IE, but I don't think that it is the best browser at the moment and I am making a personal statement by switching to another browser until MS gets off their arses and moves IE into the 21st century. In the mean time, I will use the best of the rest.

Janx · Post by **Janx** » May 5, 2005, 1:58 pm

IE7 getting close? Pretty sure I read it would be released for XP etc..

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » May 5, 2005, 2:04 pm

I also read that it will be sold seperately from the next OS they put out.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » May 5, 2005, 2:06 pm

Bubba Grizz wrote:I also read that it will be sold seperately from the next OS they put out.

I very much doubt it will be sold. Especially when there are free alternatives. That would be a monstrously bad move on MS's part unless they somehow make their internet connection scheme proprietary. Why pay for IE when you can get Firefox at a much cheaper price?

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » May 5, 2005, 2:10 pm

I think it had something to do with the law suit and having a monopoly or some shit like that. I just remember it in passing. I don't know if they are selling it or providing it as a stand alone. Then again I could be totally off and thinking of OS2 or some shit.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » May 5, 2005, 2:20 pm

Bubba Grizz wrote:I think it had something to do with the law suit and having a monopoly or some shit like that. I just remember it in passing. I don't know if they are selling it or providing it as a stand alone. Then again I could be totally off and thinking of OS2 or some shit.

I would say that most likely the standalone thing. (With probably a shortuct on the desktop that says "Download Internet Explorer here.") There would have to be a very compelling reason to buy it for them to sell it...

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 5, 2005, 2:28 pm

archeiron wrote:
I like the skinnable interface of Firefox.
I like supporting clever people with bright ideas that are working hard on making something good.
I like the fact that I can download extensions to add Mouse Gestures, tab saving/recovery, etc.
I like the fact that I can view PNG transparencies.
I like the fact that I can test CSS features for personal web sites using a browser that is implemented to use CSS correctly (according to W3C standards)
I like the fact that it is being actively developed and enhanced, whereas IE has been a "dead" project for some time and is only just now starting to reveal minor upcoming upgrades when MS could be blazing trails way out ahead of everyone.

-Skinnable interface seems pointless with the entire OS themes available in mass quantities which also skin IE. Skins are mostly gimmicky anyway and don't help with function. I'm back to using a standard one from XP for the moment.

-You can download extensions for mouse gestures for IE as well.

-PNG transparancies and CSS features don't matter to me as IE is the king and if it doesn't work with that, people are losing business. When IE implements support for PNG transparancies, I'll care more : )

-IE is actively developed but they haven't been releasing betas. It looks like we'll get a solid version of 7 right away avoiding your hit and miss experiences with Firefox.

I like gestures when using my laptop as I don't have the forward/back mouse buttons that easily navigate web pages for me on the pad. My laptop has built in gestures as part of its drivers so no need for a browser to have them. IE works excellent with the gestures I use on the touchpad.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » May 5, 2005, 7:28 pm

-PNG transparancies and CSS features don't matter to me as IE is the king and if it doesn't work with that, people are losing business. When IE implements support for PNG transparancies, I'll care more : )

Firefox ownz j00!

-IE is actively developed but they haven't been releasing betas. It looks like we'll get a solid version of 7 right away avoiding your hit and miss experiences with Firefox.

Solid and Microsoft in the same word? When did that EVER happen?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 5, 2005, 11:00 pm

I'm liking Avant so far. After like 2 minutes of use, I already have Kwon and Dregor's avatar's blocked. Nice.

Some things I'm working on:

-I had to allow "banner" from the ad blocker or VV's banner wouldn't show.

-My forward/back MX700/1000 mouse buttons don't work while using Avant. Any way to fix that? Their mouse button forward/back method is ok but I'd rather use the buttons on my mouse.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » May 5, 2005, 11:28 pm

Winnow wrote:-My forward/back MX700/1000 mouse buttons don't work while using Avant. Any way to fix that? Their mouse button forward/back method is ok but I'd rather use the buttons on my mouse.

Those the ones by the thumb button? Mine are working forward and backward.. If its something else I don't know!

Can hold down right button and click left!

(Or hold down right mouse and scoot mouse left!)

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 5, 2005, 11:41 pm

Aslanna wrote:
Winnow wrote:-My forward/back MX700/1000 mouse buttons don't work while using Avant. Any way to fix that? Their mouse button forward/back method is ok but I'd rather use the buttons on my mouse.
Those the ones by the thumb button? Mine are working forward and backward.. If its something else I don't know!

Can hold down right button and click left!

(Or hold down right mouse and scoot mouse left!)

hmm I just downloaded the 5/5/05 release of the Logitech drivers but the back/forward side mouse buttons didn't work still.

I solved it by assigning keystrokes, ALT-RIGHT and ALT-LEFT (which will also work in IE) to those buttons and all is fine : ) Whew, had to have my forward/back mouse buttons.

XunilTlatoani · Post by **XunilTlatoani** » May 6, 2005, 1:15 am

Deward wrote:As a web developer and system admin, Firefox really pisses me off. It has a lot of trouble with secure web pages for some reason and will send thousands of requests against the web server for no good reason. About twice a month I have to go clean out millions of log entries that firefox made. I am contemplating banning it from use with my web pages.

[google]network.http.pipelining[/google]

This may/may not be the culprit.. I really don't know the inner workings, but it has something to do with banging the web server with many simultaneous threads.