NFL DRAFT

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » April 20, 2005, 3:11 pm

It is this weekend! Any get excited about this? I don't know much about college football so I am at a loss with the names and such. I just like watching all the highlights for each player. Especially the defense.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 20, 2005, 4:06 pm

If this was a poll I would have selected YES.

Cardinals are going 9-7 this year! That's like any other team winning the SuperBowl.

Post by **Sylvus** » April 20, 2005, 4:09 pm

Weren't they supposed to do that last year, Winnow?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 20, 2005, 4:20 pm

Well Denny Green predicted we'd go 10-6 last year, this year there's talk of an undefeated season so I adjusted accordingly.

Check out our new stadium!

We will lose in style next year in 2006!

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » April 20, 2005, 4:41 pm

so not only does the roof open....but the grass drives outside for sunshine?

that sounds.....stupid!!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 20, 2005, 5:16 pm

Voronwë wrote:so not only does the roof open....but the grass drives outside for sunshine?

that sounds.....stupid!!

Hey! They can use the Stadium for other events during the day (and night). They need to make money somehow with only 20K fans showing up each home game. : )

Deward · Post by **Deward** » April 20, 2005, 5:42 pm

They might get a few more fans if the place is air conditioned. I certainly wouldn't want to go watch a game if it was over 100 degrees outside.

As for the draft, I plan to watch it just because no one knows how things are going to play out. There are several people who could go number one and EVERYONE is trying to trade down. It will be interesting to see what happens when contracts start getting discussed because no one in this draft's top ten (with maybe one or two exceptions) is worth the money of last year's picks.

Shanter · Post by **Shanter** » April 20, 2005, 5:46 pm

Possible Scenarios:

San Fransisco draft down for Phillip Rivers and Chargers' first round pick

San Fransisco drafts Alex Smith

I just can't wait, I'm a football nerd and love draft picks and the behind the scenes action

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » April 20, 2005, 5:49 pm

i have no business trashing any stadium anyway. right next door to the building i work in is the giant circus tent that is the Georgia Dome.

not only ugly as fuck, but no atmosphere inside, artificial turf....all that shit.

its sucks terribly. that is all.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 20, 2005, 5:52 pm

Shanter wrote:Possible Scenarios:

San Fransisco draft down for Phillip Rivers and Chargers' first round pick

Wow, that would be great for the Chargers. Dump Rivers and grab a #1 pick they can actually use this season. They'd probably want to extend Brees' contract first if they do that though.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » April 20, 2005, 6:06 pm

plus you arent getting Rivers AND a #1 pick.

Ogbar · Post by **Ogbar** » April 20, 2005, 7:13 pm

Well, this will be the first time in over 20 years that I won't be watching the draft on TV. But that's ok, as I am vacationing in Europe, I'll just settle for the tour of Prague instead.

BTW, I predict the Pats will trade up into the low 20s of the first round. Just a hunch

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » April 20, 2005, 8:06 pm

9ers should take rogers round 1 and Arrington with the 2 pick, I am such a Cal homer huh?

XunilTlatoani · Post by **XunilTlatoani** » April 21, 2005, 4:56 pm

Even though that deal sounds good for both sides, I just don't the the Rivers to 9ers deal is going to happen.

But on to the more important subject of Da Bears!

When the draft projections first started going up, the biggest question for the Bears was were they going to pick Braylon Edwards or Mike Williams. It was assumed that SF would go QB, Miami would go RB and Cleveland wouldn't go WR, leaving the Bears the pick of the litter. Right now though, it seems like Miami is trying hard to trade out of the second spot, and I think someone might grab Braylon Edwards 2nd.

For me, this is great news. I am a huge Michigan fan...and because of that, I know the track record of stud Michigan receivers in recent memory. Marquis Walker, David Terrell, Tai Streets, Amani Toomer, Desmond Howard...all great Michigan WR's, but only Toomer had any sort of success at WR on the pro level. Granted, Edwards had a killer year statistically when compared to any of the other Michigan WR's, but when watching him play, he just dropped way too many easy passes, and I think that is only going to get worse at the pro level.

If the Bears did take a WR at 4, I am hoping for Mike Williams. I think this guy is really going to be a difference maker in the NFL....if he had stayed for his Junior year, I don't have any doubt that he would be a #1 pick this year. Plus, now that the Bears have a go to guy with Mushin Muhammad, a stud rookie WR can develop in his shadow without worrying about carrying the load of being the man.

The other option is to take a RB at number 4. I wouldn't be too upset with that, but I just think that we have the perfect situation to develop a good stud WR for the first time in, well, forever....and I think Mike Williams will be a huge NFL stud.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » April 21, 2005, 4:57 pm

I would try to draft players WITHOUT herpes...

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » April 21, 2005, 5:06 pm

masteen wrote:I would try to draft players WITHOUT herpes...

i will take 50 guys with Herpes if they bring to their position what Ron Mexico brings to his

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 21, 2005, 6:26 pm

Man...these are the new Cardinal Uniforms. I guess since we play like a college team we'll look like one as well:

Does it look like the pants are ripped to anyone else?

Hurt Warner and Larry Fitgerald!

How about them Suns!

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » April 21, 2005, 6:38 pm

Voronwë wrote:
masteen wrote:I would try to draft players WITHOUT herpes...
i will take 50 guys with Herpes if they bring to their position what Ron Mexico brings to his

You want more glorified running backs to play QB?

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » April 22, 2005, 11:56 am

you have no idea what you are talking about. none at all. which is pretty much par for the course for every sports opinion that dribbles out of your mouth.

he's a better passer than Steve Young or Brett Favre were when they were 23. and those guys are hall of famers. plus he's not a drop down drunk like Favre.

the Falcons have no wide receivers and no pass blocking. that makes it hard to be an effective QB.

Most important stat from QBs: winning. Falcons with Vick last 2 years 14-3. Without, something like 2-13.

you can take any other stat like QB rating or whatever and talk about it all day. I know Peyton Manning has great stats, great receivers, and a great O-line. He also has done less with more opportunities in the postseason than Mike Vick.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » April 22, 2005, 12:35 pm

You can argue forever about Vick being a "great QB" but he is definitely not. Yeah....great record with Vick in. That says more about their running game and defense than about his abilities as a QB. He is a horribly innacurate QB and has no touch. He likes to throw the ball through people in every situation.

He is nothing more than Kordell Stewart with better speed. If you recall, Kordell "led" the Steelers to a 13-3 record before his horrible inaccuracy caught up with him. If the Falcons are smart, they will just run a wishbone offense and snap it to him in the backfield and let him run. With a couple extra big blocking backs, they could roll people with a power running game that defenses could not macth up against.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » April 22, 2005, 12:36 pm

Most important stat from QBs: winning. Falcons with Vick last 2 years 14-3. Without, something like 2-13.

At this point, that statistic is impossible to argue with.

Additionally, the Falcons have won a playoff game in each of his years as a starter. The Falcons have not had back to back winning seasons... ever.

Kilmoll wrote: Yeah....great record with Vick in. That says more about their running game and defense than about his abilities as a QB.

?

Their running game and defense is still there with Vick out.

Unless you're classifying Vick as part of their running game, in which case that would certainly be "something he brings to the quarterback position." And something he brings enough of to transform his teams record to an extent that probably no other individual player in the NFL could.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » April 22, 2005, 1:49 pm

Lets put this in perspective. Kordell Stewart and Charlie Batch both have better completion percentages than Vick. Kordell Stewart? Charlie Batch? Charlie Batch was the guy who skipped ballls off the ground on screen passes and was a threat to referee's heads everywhere.

I can only liken Vick to Barry Sanders. If the Lions had put Barry at the QB position he would have been just as dangerous a passer and more dangerous of a runner. You could probably say the same about most of the top tier of RB's. As a QB Vick is terrible. As an RB he is a beast. Just realize that every time the Falcons snap the ball that it is an HB Option play and you will understand that he is an RB with the option to throw it.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » April 22, 2005, 1:52 pm

i'd say running for 1000 yds at 8 yds per attempt is definitely contributing to the running game

.

but Sueven, excellent refutation.

i would add that i dont think Vick is the best QB in the NFL. I would obviously take Manning, Brady, and maybe McNabb ahead of him to win a game this Sunday. but that's about it. And I know for a fact that Vick doesn't lose his shit at the end of games and throw up, making it impossible for his team to run a 2 minute drill. Over the next 9 years of a contract the only one i would say is clearly a better bet than Vick is Manning - and he is simply playing like the best QB in history.

Who can't win playoff games, unlike Vick.

So Vick has a lot of improvement - no doubt. And a lot of people like to 'hate on' him because he is so hyped up. But the fact of the matter is, he touchs the ball 50-60 times a game, and every single time he touches the ball, you know that the game can change, and if it does it is going to be one of the coolest plays you ever saw.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » April 22, 2005, 2:00 pm

Voronwë wrote:and every single time he touches the ball, you know that the game can change,

Except when they play Philadelphia!

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » April 22, 2005, 3:51 pm

Kilmoll: It is a statistical truth that the Falcons winning percentage is significantly higher when Vick plays than when he doesn't play, and there is a reasonable sample size in both groups. To what do you attribute this difference if not the play of Michael Vick?

Homercles · Post by **Homercles** » April 22, 2005, 4:43 pm

That winning percentage difference is attributed to Vicks RUNNING ABILITIES. His passing skills are inadequate. He ranks near the bottom of the league in PASSER rating.

The whole "Hes a great QB" debate does not capture the correct opinion of Vick "haters"

When he plays that position of quarterback his team generally wins. The problem some people have is how they define the QB position. The haters assume the QB position is meant to be one that passes and distributes the ball to his teammates.

Peyton Manning. Tom Brady. Prototypical QBs.

Vick can not be compared to them. He doesnt play the position in any way similar to them. To the Falcons, the QB position is the easiest way to get the ball into the hands of one of the most exciting RUNNERS is the NFL

Vick is an outstanding and amazing RUNNER. He is a below average to poor PASSER.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » April 22, 2005, 4:56 pm

Yes this is true.

Most people consider Tom Brady a better quarterback than Peyton Manning. Why? Tom Brady's team regularly beats Peyton Manning's team, despite the fact that, by all empirical analysis, Peyton Manning is a better passer than Tom Brady.

Why don't the same standards apply to Vick? When did we begin evaluating quarterbacks on style?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 22, 2005, 5:01 pm

It's all about the intangibles!

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » April 22, 2005, 5:08 pm

well this year will be a year where marked progression in the passing game will certainly be expected - and reasonably so.

Deward · Post by **Deward** » April 22, 2005, 5:09 pm

I find Vick enjoyable to watch but I don't consider him a hall of fame caliber player. At best he is a media darling with a severe durability problem. Once his speed is gone then he won't be around much longer. How many games has he missed over the last two years? A lot. He is one of the best scrambling QBs ever but every time he leaves the pocket, the coaches start shaking because he is so frail.

I don't think he will last another 3 years. I would rather have Favre on Sunday than Vick and he scares me half the time too.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » April 22, 2005, 9:07 pm

Vick is quite possibly the most exciting football player to watch.. but not the best QB by far. Might as well put Edgerin James or LT in the QB spot and let them at it. Until he proves he can throw the ball with some accuracy they will never win a title because they are too one-dimensional.

Not to mention if he doesn't start passing the ball he'll be in a wheelchair in 3 years.

And yeah I'd take Manning, Brady or even Favre over Vick as a QB.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 23, 2005, 3:18 pm

Hmmmm

Cardinals pick #8 Antrel Rolle, CB from Miami.

What did we get ourselves into Voro? I see Sean Taylor (Miami) is saying he needs time off from football after only one year in Washington. Are we getting a headcase or a good player in Rolle?

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » April 23, 2005, 3:31 pm

Look at Miami's draft history:

Jon Vilma
Ed Reed
Terrell Suggs
Clinton Portis
Willis McGahee
Ray Lewis
Warren Sapp
Michael Irvin

etc etc etc

They've produced far better NFL talent than any other school in recent years. They do produce some nuts (although it's hard to tell about Kellen Winslow and Sean Taylor yet), but I'd be much happier getting a Miami player than one from anywhere else.

xZiBiT · Post by **xZiBiT** » April 23, 2005, 3:34 pm

The Lions' take Mike Williams. How does he fall to us. The Vikings' are retarded.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 23, 2005, 3:35 pm

Sueven wrote: etc etc etc

They've produced far better NFL talent than any other school in recent years. They do produce some nuts (although it's hard to tell about Kellen Winslow and Sean Taylor yet), but I'd be much happier getting a Miami player than one from anywhere else.

Aye but since Voro is a Miami alum/fanboi I figured he might have some insider info. : )

sweetkastings · Post by **sweetkastings** » April 23, 2005, 5:31 pm

Jax takes Matt Jones? WTF!

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » April 23, 2005, 6:01 pm

Seems like most teams have done well so far imho.

Waran · Post by **Waran** » April 23, 2005, 6:19 pm

Well, I'm glad the Rams did what they should have done and picked OT Alex Barron from FSU. He's gonna learn quite a bit from Pace and fit in well instead of the flop Turley turned out to be.

From the Rams website:

At 6’7, 320 pounds, Barron is an imposing force who is equally adept at run and pass blocking......He did nothing to hurt his stock at his pro day, where he ran a 4.86 in the 40-yard dash and bench-pressed 395 pounds. The best example of Barron’s athleticism is the 38-inch vertical jump he recorded at the pro day

Can't wait to see this big guy in action

Good to see Aaron Rodgers finally picked by Green Bay. Was wondering if he had a Gameboy or PSP or something to pass the time during the 23 picks before him

sweetkastings · Post by **sweetkastings** » April 23, 2005, 7:38 pm

Im really glad Tenn got "Pac-Man" Jones!! Awsome pick (ps im a titans fan bitches)

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 24, 2005, 12:18 am

I'm happy with Arizona's four picks on the first day.

1 (8) Antrel Rolle CB Miami (FL)
2 (44) J.J. Arrington HB California
3 (75) Eric Green CB Virginia Tech
3 (95) Darryl Blackstock OLB Virginia

We got two quality CB's which were badly needed. A solid RB who's only knock is his size and an aggressive linebacker.

Yay us! Denny Green had a very nice draft last year with the four top picks performing well...hope this year is the same!

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » April 24, 2005, 3:09 am

I was surprised to see Matt Jones (QB, AR) picked 21 in the 1st round. The kid is big and has a ton of talent, although that talent will most likely be at TE. Damn shame Jacksonville has no leadership to exploit that talent... oh well, I hope he does well as he was solid as the 'Backs QB--despit their option program.

On a side note... expected 1-3 picks... It is no wonder that teams had been trading to get lower picks due to salary caps, signing bonuses and the expected low expectations.

(RE: RYAN LEAF)

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 24, 2005, 3:37 am

Canelek wrote:I was surprised to see Matt Jones (QB, AR) picked 21 in the 1st round. The kid is big and has a ton of talent, although that talent will most likely be at TE. Damn shame Jacksonville has no leadership to exploit that talent... oh well, I hope he does well as he was solid as the 'Backs QB--despit their option program.

On a side note... expected 1-3 picks... It is no wonder that teams had been trading to get lower picks due to salary caps, signing bonuses and the expected low expectations. (RE: RYAN LEAF)

Just from watching the scouting film on Matt Jones, he looks amazing. He seems to be one of those rare super athletic types. I hope he does well. He has the talent. I think with him it will all come down to the coach's ability to utilize and motivate him.

Phugg_Innay · Post by **Phugg_Innay** » April 24, 2005, 10:20 am

Raiders will be licking the AFC toilet again year. Hey Al , we need a F'N QB that will last more than a season , then work on the D

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » April 24, 2005, 12:32 pm

I have a feeling Matt Jones will be the next Antonio Gates. If he indeed turns out that way he will be a steal at 21 imho. Not quite the steal that Gates was though.

Alfan · Post by **Alfan** » April 24, 2005, 2:40 pm

In Matt Jones words, "why would they want me to put on 20-30 lbs and drop my 40 time .2 seonds?"

I think they'll keep him at receiver. A kid that big running a 4.3 and jumping 42 inches is ridiculous. Byron Leftwhich doesn't even really have to get it in his vincinity, just toss it up. Apparently from the Eagles scouting report says his hands are really good too.

But, really, I'm more in shock about the Lion's offense.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » April 24, 2005, 2:44 pm

That offense should be fun to watch if their QB gets his act together. 3 good WRs, a good RB.. weeeh!

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » April 24, 2005, 2:50 pm

Damn shame Jacksonville has no leadership to exploit that talent.

I think Jacksonville's a fine place for him. Jack Del Rio has coached pretty well so far, and Leftwich is an excellent QB and leader.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » April 24, 2005, 2:56 pm

Leftwich is amazing. I remember watching the game when he was literally carried between plays. He earned my respect right there, and has only improved on it after that. Seems to play the game for all the right reasons and none of the wrong ones.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » April 25, 2005, 7:45 pm

I think Jones will fit in OK in Jax. They are missing some pieces, but they do have some young talent and Jones' ability is just insane. He had been one of the only reasons to watch Arkansas games!

Now how about this: Maurice Clarett picked in 3rd round by Broncos.... Well, the Broncos know how to pick RBs in the draft, as we all know....but Clarett seems like a better fit for the raiders due to all of his asshattery over the last two years.

Still, he seems to be a pretty solid north-south type of runner with average speed. That works with the Broncos O-Line, but I am still betting that Tatum Bell will get the majority of the snaps, followed by Mike Anderson and Quentin Griffin.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » April 25, 2005, 9:38 pm

Now I have been pretty much a Clarett-hater, but I must admit in the recent press conferences he sounds a lot more grown up.