The first lunge in the battle has been made by Sony...

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » March 2, 2005, 1:24 pm

rofl

raid content at level 15 is a joke.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » March 2, 2005, 1:30 pm

i have no problem scrolling and you have no problem trolling.

remember.. it's just light-hearted banter, right?

miir · Post by **miir** » March 2, 2005, 1:47 pm

Xyun wrote:rofl

raid content at level 15 is a joke.

That type of attitude is exactly what I'm talking about.
Why not have raid instances for level 15s?

Why does raid content have to be limited to max level?

The heritage quest for JBoots in EQ2 is called 'The journey is half the fun'.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 2, 2005, 1:47 pm

Fash wrote:i have no problem scrolling and you have no problem trolling.

remember.. it's just light-hearted banter, right?

Thanks for keeping your faggotry on the WoW forums.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » March 2, 2005, 1:54 pm

Look who's talking

miir · Post by **miir** » March 2, 2005, 1:59 pm

Fash wrote:Look who's talking

remember.. it's just light-hearted banter, right?

nobody · Post by **nobody** » March 2, 2005, 2:13 pm

miir wrote:
Fash wrote:Look who's talking
remember.. it's just light-hearted banter, right?

miir · Post by **miir** » March 2, 2005, 2:15 pm

nobody wrote:

archeiron · Post by **archeiron** » March 2, 2005, 2:26 pm

miir wrote:
Xyun wrote:rofl

raid content at level 15 is a joke.
That type of attitude is exactly what I'm talking about.
Why not have raid instances for level 15s?

Why does raid content have to be limited to max level?

The heritage quest for JBoots in EQ2 is called 'The journey is half the fun'.

Actually, I would PREFER raid content starting at low levels. EQ1 has already introduced its high-end playerbase to the notion of tiered raid content, so why not scale those tiers with level? It doesn't make as much sense with the WoW paradigm (quick path to 60), but it may make more sense if used in conjunction with a drawn out level curve.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » March 2, 2005, 2:45 pm

psychologically the fast leveling to 60 might make it easier for ppl to leave WoW

miir · Post by **miir** » March 2, 2005, 2:51 pm

If it's too easy to level (especially solo), there is no feeling of accomplishment when you hit max level.

Remember your excitement when you first hit level 50 in EQ?

noel · Post by **noel** » March 2, 2005, 3:00 pm

Do you understand the difference between fact and opinion?

Fact: This is your opinion:

miir wrote:If it's too easy to level (especially solo), there is no feeling of accomplishment when you hit max

There is no study or statistic to back this up. It's logical, but it's still your opinion.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » March 2, 2005, 3:00 pm

oh god it's so fast... i've been playing for 2 months and im already level 28

give me a break.. I've already considered quitting because levelling is too slow

I would consider hitting 60 an accomplishment, as it will easily take me another 4 months to do so.

It could make people leave quicker, but just who's interest is that in? If they don't have the social attachment to hang on to, it's a non-evil business model.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » March 2, 2005, 3:04 pm

Yup. That happened 2 days after Kunark came out... =/

I hit 60 with 2 chars in WoW. A hunter in beta and a Druid last weekend in Retail.

Still a ton of stuff to do from Blackrock Mountain, getting those elusive high level trade schematics(I'm an engineer), then there's Scholomance and Stratholme that I haven't set foot. I also want to grind some faction with Argent Dawn to get those sweet items that you can get from their consignment vendors (Friendly gives you a food item that regens a LOT of hp/mana).

I've also definatly noticed the sence of community blossoming on my server on the horde side of things. It only truly develops the closer to 60 you get cause those are the characters that people take pride in and take the time to develop. I've actually also started to retain names of alliance folks and even though I can't communicate with them, the ones that I've had good duels/fights with usually tend to send me a /wave emote when I cross them.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » March 2, 2005, 3:09 pm

The reason "raiding" at level 15 is a joke is because no decent MMOG has ever had an advancement path that has your character even CLOSE to fully developed by that level.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » March 2, 2005, 3:16 pm

compelling group content is sufficient at that level.

Crushbone for example.

it was a cord wet day in Ferwithes...

noel · Post by **noel** » March 2, 2005, 3:25 pm

WoW Level 16: Crystal Caverns for teh win!

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » March 2, 2005, 3:25 pm

Masteen, you realize that by lvl 15 you haven't even been put in a situation to define what your class IS yet, right? I'm not a huge fan of the lvl 15 raid/group content, but dang you can get some good stuff out of them that will last you into your mid 20's.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 2, 2005, 3:45 pm

noel wrote:Do you understand the difference between fact and opinion?

Fact: This is your opinion:
miir wrote:If it's too easy to level (especially solo), there is no feeling of accomplishment when you hit max
There is no study or statistic to back this up. It's logical, but it's still your opinion.

Where did I state that my opinions in this thread are to be taken as fact?
Idiot.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 2, 2005, 3:47 pm

Akaran_D wrote:Masteen, you realize that by lvl 15 you haven't even been put in a situation to define what your class IS yet, right? I'm not a huge fan of the lvl 15 raid/group content, but dang you can get some good stuff out of them that will last you into your mid 20's.

The lower level raid content in EQ2 is also pretty damn fun.

noel · Post by **noel** » March 2, 2005, 3:57 pm

Ok Miir. Your game is less popular. But it will come from behind to scoop up all of its competitor's subscribers because you think so.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 2, 2005, 4:01 pm

noel wrote:Ok Miir. Your game is less popular. But it will come from behind to scoop up all of its competitor's subscribers because you think so.

Translation: I can't write a decent flame about what you have been saying so I am going to imagine you said some different things and flame you about that. HA!

miir · Post by **miir** » March 2, 2005, 4:03 pm

Well, it was nice having a civilized discussion about MMOGs before tweedle dee and tweedle dumb poked their heads in here.

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » March 2, 2005, 4:03 pm

Which one are you

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » March 2, 2005, 4:04 pm

Lynks wrote:Which one are you

about 50 people vieing to post that at the same time

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » March 2, 2005, 4:12 pm

Hoenst to all, I'm just offering some clarification from a casual EQ2 player's standpoint. I don't have much against the WoW folk, they like their game and that's good for them. With the subscriber base EQ2 has, I don't expect it to be deleted anytime soon, so I still get to enjoy my content while you enjoy yours.

Don't tweedle me.

noel · Post by **noel** » March 2, 2005, 4:30 pm

You were having a civilized discussion? With yourself?

WoW has oodles of content. 1-60 that I'm quite sure rivals whatever EQ2 has. WoW has some elite quests that I suppose could be considered raid content for a group of people.

The only time you like having a discussion is when everyone agrees with you. Put your tampon back in your mouth and stop bleeding all over the forum for the real MMOG.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 2, 2005, 4:40 pm

WoW has oodles of content. 1-60 that I'm quite sure rivals whatever EQ2 has. WoW has some elite quests that I suppose could be considered raid content for a group of people.

Once again noel has to make shit up in order to come up with a pitiful attempt at a flame.

Nobody has made any direct comparisons between the amount of content in WoW and EQ2.

The crux of one of my opinions that I expressed in this thread is that people are liekly to bypass a lot of the sub 60 content simply because it's so easy to outlevel it.

By the way, Elite quests are hardly raid content. They are more like an average EQ2 group encounter.

The only time you like having a discussion is when everyone agrees with you. Put your tampon back in your mouth and stop bleeding all over the forum for the real MMOG.

Judging from your puzzling posts on this thread, it's pretty obvious you haven't really been reading it. Usually your flames are a lot more coherent and entertaining... today it seems like cartalas has taken over your keyboard. Are you on horse tranquilizers or something?

masteen · Post by **masteen** » March 2, 2005, 4:46 pm

You're so full of shit, miir. SFK and SM are so above and beyond that.

noel · Post by **noel** » March 2, 2005, 4:51 pm

Yeah normal group content in WoW is fun by itself. Elite quests range from challenging for 1-2 people to full blown raids. Which all happens well before level 60. Thanks for playing though.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 2, 2005, 4:53 pm

I suppose the the WoW instances like Shadowfang and SM are more comparable to EQ2 instances like Nek Castle, Firemyst Gully, COD or DFC.

Nothing compared to the lower level raid instances like Cauldron Hollow or Bloodskull Valley.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 2, 2005, 4:55 pm

noel wrote:Yeah normal group content in WoW is fun by itself. Elite quests range from challenging for 1-2 people to full blown raids. Which all happens well before level 60. Thanks for playing though.

Name one 'Full Blown Raid' (20+ players) that is geared towards sub 60 players in WoW.... I'm curious.

I'm not saying that there isn't, I'm just unaware of any.

noel · Post by **noel** » March 2, 2005, 5:02 pm

As far as I know, there are encounters that are raid encounters prior to level 60. Unfortunately, I have yet to experience any of them since I solo 95% of the time due to time constraints.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 2, 2005, 5:07 pm

noel wrote:As far as I know, there are encounters that are raid encounters prior to level 60. Unfortunately, I have yet to experience any of them since I solo 95% of the time due to time constraints.

So basically you're admitting that you really have no idea about lower level raid content in WOW?

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » March 2, 2005, 5:13 pm

This thread needs DP

miir · Post by **miir** » March 2, 2005, 5:14 pm

Aabidano wrote:This thread needs DP

Atokal is pro DP for kids!

Drinsic Darkwood · Post by **Drinsic Darkwood** » March 2, 2005, 5:21 pm

miir wrote:
noel wrote:Yeah normal group content in WoW is fun by itself. Elite quests range from challenging for 1-2 people to full blown raids. Which all happens well before level 60. Thanks for playing though.
Name one 'Full Blown Raid' (20+ players) that is geared towards sub 60 players in WoW.... I'm curious.

I'm not saying that there isn't, I'm just unaware of any.

I'd say it's more geared towards 10-15 lvl 60's, but 20 lvl 55-59 could do UBRS successfully.

Honestly, there isn't much for raid content pre-60, and I don't see anything wrong with that at all. I liked EQ's design... ie, lvl to 50/60/65/70 and that's where the majority of the content is.

Among Lower/Upper Blackrock Spire, Stratholme, Scholomance, Onyxia, Molten Core there's plenty of group/raid content at the moment. The upcoming additions of Azuregos, Lord Krazzak, Dire Maul, Blackwing Lair, and the southern half of Silithus will no doubt be just as entertaining. However, with Blizzard's current pace, that could be some time in 2006.

I've found WoW to be more entertaining and satisfying than EQ2 in almost every aspect - my only major beef is content patches/fixes (the biggest probably being the instance bugs with MC). I've never had server problems of any kind, but I play on a low/medium population server, so /shrug.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 2, 2005, 5:24 pm

Thanks for the info, Drinsic..

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » March 2, 2005, 8:32 pm

Honestly, there isn't much for raid content pre-60, and I don't see anything wrong with that at all. I liked EQ's design... ie, lvl to 50/60/65/70 and that's where the majority of the content is.

Thats true to an extent, but a lot the other instances can be tackled with larger, lower level forces as a raid. For instance, Gnomeregan, my guild would do mini raids there with level 20s and up, while the end encounters/quests are designed about level 35ish. When we leveled up, the focus changed to Uldaman, Maraudon, and now the Temple of Atal'Hakkar. These are instances targeted for specific levels but lower levels can raid, access encounters that in a single group would be above them, and gain access to some of the rewards.

I guess one question I do have for Miir is about some of the dungeon areas in EQ2 compared to the dungeon instances of WoW. You take the Deadmines for a high teens/low 20s group: a single group has to work through the bulk of the zone (including several named encounters) to access the focal point (the ship and ultimately Edwin Van Cleef and his henchmen). The result is more immersive than EQ1 dungeon camp-and-pulls are, and more like a scripted raid event that we saw later in the game. How does EQ2 compare to this?

miir · Post by **miir** » March 2, 2005, 8:34 pm

There are both.

Standard EQ type dungeons and instanced zones for raids or single groups.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » March 2, 2005, 9:05 pm

My thoughts on low level raid content are this:

(specific to EQ2) The majority of the people I grouped with were idiots(I got to level 20) and by no means would I consider going on a raid with people like the ones I encountered. Not to mention that you haven't even picked your sub class at 15.. I just don't see it to be necessary, I think group instances are enough.

Although for arguments sake toward EQ2, I had found it to be a LOT more equipment focused at lower levels than in WoW, and You had to CONSTANTLY be looting/buying new armor- although this still doesn't mean you need raid content at those levels to aquire that armor, because it will just be replaced in 5 levels.

As far as WoW goes, if I group at all it's with seeber/ebumar and sometimes a few other guildies- I have found pick up groups at any level so far to be a joke. In WoW there is a vastly larger number of inexperienced player, but there is also 5 times the amount of people playing as there is EQ2, so that is almost expected.

WoW has a vast array of fun things to do at any level- from rescue quests where you need a group to clear a path back out of a dungeon/cave/etc to elite quests, to a much simpler- more fun tradeskill system(which provides the equipment). I just feel that WoW is more in depth with its lore and quest lines, providing what has been fun for me at all times up until now.

For these reasons I do not feel like there is any need of lower level raid content in WoW, as (in my opinion) the game is not lacking in group content, fun , a constant flow of quests, and also there is very little focus on equipment at low levels - I have had to rarely replace any of my equipment aside from my weapons with any regularity , and the replacements I do get generally come from loot soloing/off chests, etc.

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » March 2, 2005, 9:20 pm

Allow me to clarifiy the "there are both".

A good example of a EQ2 Guk zone is the Ruins of Varsoon. The place is fairly large, easily at least 6 named 'camps' I can think of off of the top of my head, and can easily support 60-80 characters. You have to crawl through to find your camp, there are pathing mobs, ect.

A good example of a single group zone would be Firemist Gully, a zone located in Antonica proper (which itself is considered a Tier2 zone). You have either do an acess quest to enter the 'main' instance of the zone (only 6 players can enter, however, much like the LDON zones) or you can find a quest that is dropped from creatures in the area that will give you a temporary access to a 'prestige' variant of the instance, which can have less / worse / better / more loot.

In general, the access quests are harder to accomplish than finding the drops. However, completing them is frequently worth it.

I do not know how this compares to WoW, nor do I wish to pass judgement on it. I am simply offering to clarify, not troll.

zotha · Post by **zotha** » March 10, 2005, 9:51 am

Just wait a few months for players to find holes in WOW server security and start exploiting and hacking their servers. It happened to Diablo 2, so that means it's going to happen to WoW. Right?

You do realize that EQ had numerous horrible security holes for years that people exploited day in and day out with little to no reprisal from GMs. All of the security problems WoW is experiencing right now (and many more) were possible after just downloading one program that any retard could use. Botting, teleporting, speed hacks were all rife in EQ.

The only difference is that people are actually being banned in WoW for it, whereas Sony wouldnt risk its bottom line/subscription count by removing accounts. Hell Sony even sent out mass mailings last year to previously banned accounts offering them to reactivate their old accounts.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 10, 2005, 10:18 am

If you had actually read this stupid thread you would realise that EQ and Diablo have virtually nothing to do with EQ2 or WoW and that quote was sarcasm.

retard.

The only difference is that people are actually being banned in WoW for it, whereas Sony wouldnt risk its bottom line/subscription count by removing accounts. Hell Sony even sent out mass mailings last year to previously banned accounts offering them to reactivate their old accounts

So You say in one sentence that SOE didn't ban accounts and the next sentence you say they banned accounts... make up your fucking mind.

Sylvos · Post by **Sylvos** » March 10, 2005, 11:03 am

miir wrote:If you had actually read this stupid thread you would realise that EQ and Diablo have virtually nothing to do with EQ2 or WoW and that quote was sarcasm.

retard.

The only difference is that people are actually being banned in WoW for it, whereas Sony wouldnt risk its bottom line/subscription count by removing accounts. Hell Sony even sent out mass mailings last year to previously banned accounts offering them to reactivate their old accounts
So You say in one sentence that SOE didn't ban accounts and the next sentence you say they banned accounts... make up your fucking mind.

FUK U HITLER!

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » March 10, 2005, 11:45 am

THANK YOU FOR QUANTIFYING THE FACT THAT EQ2 IS FOR FAGGOTS
COMMENCE NANCING

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » March 10, 2005, 2:13 pm

Is miir on the SOE payroll or something?

miir · Post by **miir** » March 10, 2005, 2:17 pm

Aslanna wrote:Is miir on the SOE payroll or something?

Haha ASSlanna that's so original and funny!

noel · Post by **noel** » March 10, 2005, 2:19 pm

miir wrote:Haha ASSlanna that's so original and funny!

I'll see your sarcasm and raise you a:

Haha miir that's so original and funny!

miir · Post by **miir** » March 10, 2005, 2:25 pm

Sweep that sand out of your vagina noel!

HAHAHAOMGIMSOFUNEE!!!!