Airliner to sue over Bush trip which cost millions in losses

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Airliner to sue over Bush trip which cost millions in losses

Post by Fash »

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... r.jATeAKnQ

Feb. 24 (Bloomberg) -- Deutsche Lufthansa AG, Europe's No. 2 airline, may seek redress for cancellations and delays from German authorities who temporarily brought the Frankfurt area to a standstill yesterday for a visit by U.S. President George W. Bush, damaging business for local companies.

Lufthansa had to cancel 92 flights, affecting 5,730 passengers, as a consequence of air traffic restrictions, said spokesman Thomas Jachnow in a telephone interview. Delays to another 330 flights totaled around 300 hours. Jachnow said losses went ``well into the millions,'' though he declined to elaborate.

Bush's eight-hour trip to Mainz, about 40 kilometers (25 miles) west of Frankfurt, for talks with German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, led the authorities to halt river traffic on the Rhine, Europe's busiest waterway, suspend takeoffs and landings at Frankfurt airport, Europe's second biggest, and close four motorways for periods of up to four hours. Much of Mainz city center was cordoned off, damaging business in local stores.

``Sales were awful,'' said Hans Keller, owner of a pharmacy about 100 yards away from the restricted area. ``Bush's visit has caused economic damage to all businesses here in Mainz and nobody is going to compensate us.''

Axel Raabe, a spokesman for DFS Deutsche Flugsicherung GmbH, which operates Germany's air traffic control system, said each minute of delay to a flight increases costs by around 50 euros ($66).

Secret Service

DFS said in an e-mailed statement that the U.S. Secret Service had ordered the complete closure of the airport during Bush's arrival and departure two days before the visit, after previously saying it would not be necessary. The closure was needed to allow the presidential convoy to cross the airport runways and take the shortest route.

``Massive reference to the serious consequences this plan would have on flight operations failed to change their position,''
DFS said.

About 14,000 police officers helped to protect Bush, said Ernst Scharbach, spokesman for the Rhineland-Palatinate police's labor union. Police were brought in from as far away as Schleswig- Holstein, Germany's northernmost state, and Brandenburg, the state encircling the capital Berlin.

``I have never experienced such security,'' Wolfgang Herber, a police officer on duty in Mainz, told broadcaster ARD. Herber helped protect former U.S. President Ronald Reagan on a visit to Germany in 1985.

Reconciliation

Complaints by local residents and store-owners about the security clampdown blemished the picture of reconciliation between Schroeder and Bush, whose meeting was intended to heal the rift that resulted from German opposition to the U.S.-led war against Iraq.

Keller, who spent the night in his pharmacy, said his eight employees were forced to stay at home because they couldn't have made it to the shop. Sales dropped to a third of normal turnover, he said, adding that he kept the store open expecting old people in a neighboring nursing home to need his services.

Twenty-four kilometers of the River Rhine and 15 kilometers of its tributary, the Main, were closed for traffic yesterday. The BDB Inland Shipping Federation said in a statement on its Web site the day before the visit it estimated losses would amount to 500 million euros.

``We have a lot of understanding for the security measures necessary,'' BDB President Heinz Hoffmann said. ``But the complete closure to shipping of the very congested Main and Rhine rivers burdens the industry beyond measure and goes way too far.''

The BDB said delays would affect 100 vessels of the 170 that pass Mainz on an average day.

hate to say it but if we're going to require security conditions like that he may as well not the leave the country. fuck why not lock him in a bunker... everyone has to make a sacrifice!
Last edited by Fash on February 24, 2005, 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Chidoro »

Obviously 1010 WINS doesn't do a traffic report in Frankfurt
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Re: Airliner to sue Bush over trip which cost millions in lo

Post by Zaelath »

Fash wrote: hate to say it but if we're going to require security conditions like that he may as well not the leave the country. fuck why not lock him in a bunker... everyone has to make a sacrifice!
Cheney won't give him the keys to the bunker.
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Post by nobody »

why didn't they just land at an AF base?
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Post by Aruman »

Who has a link to a tiny violin...
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:-({|=
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Post by Boogahz »

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,156 ... 10,00.html
Deutsche Welle wrote:Lufthansa Plans Legal Action Over Delays


US President George W Bush's arrival in Germany on Wednesday has upset Lufthansa which say it may lose millions of euros as a result of Air Force One landing at Frankfurt airport. The German airline is considering suing federal agencies for damages after the president's arrival disrupted 92 outgoing flights and 86 income flights, causing delays for as many as 17,000 passengers. It also had to cancel 77 short and medium-distance flights, affecting about 5,000 passengers. A company spokesperson said the airline was looking into its legal options. The spokesperson explained that the company did not plan to pursue Germany's air traffic controllers organization or the airport authority but wanted instead to see if it was possible to sue the German federal agencies that gave the orders. Instead of half an hour, the arrival of President Bush on the German leg of his European tour took the best part of an hour, Lufthansa said. During that time, restrictions were put on planes taxiing, taking off and landing.
So, 66 Euro per minute per flight for 330 flights = around 1.3 million Euro, right? It also looks like they already knew about the potential of losing half of that amount due to the original 30 minute delay.

It's not like Frankfurt never has delays. When I flew into there, we circled 45 minutes before we were able to land due to the rainy weather in June. It was actually rather unnerving due to a mix-up in one of the translations on the flight that said we would circle for 45 minutes with 30 minutes of fuel after flying across the Atlantic. Now, I know that they expect delays at times, but I don't understand that high of a cost for a one hour delay...especially when it was expected. With the increased security in the Mainz area, I also don't see how they would have only been informed of the request two days in advance by the Secret Service.
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Post by Winnow »

lol

Go Bush! He should go to Europe more often! Send him to Ireland next to disrupt Teeny's life!
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Post by Wulfran »

I look at this and all I can say is wtf...

Was Bush's trip not announced in advance? Did people not know "on day X a foreign head of state will be visiting" and thus reason it out that security would be elevated to a point where there would be flight/traffic delays to accomodate this visitor? I can sorta feel for Luthansa but are they going to go after Mother Nature every time she causes delays (or perhaps it will be their national weather service)? All personal opinions of Bush aside, this is a visiting head of state of an important country: suck it up and deal with the loss of a couple hrs, for the good of your own country.
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Post by Truant »

They do this in american cities all the time.

It's happened in Vegas several times, and I know it's been mentioned to have happened in Phoenix once or twice.

They close roadways within a certain x-mile radius of the airport, and everyone just has to be stuck. And no, there aren't any announcements I've ever seen, heard, or read.

I think it's fucking bullshit, especially when there is an AFB on the north side of town.
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Post by Fash »

does not bother me at all if it happens here in the states... i just would prefer to not inflict that on other countries...

we spend a lot of money on security.. just lookin for an area to trim for that budget!
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Post by *~*stragi*~* »

Truant wrote:They do this in american cities all the time.

It's happened in Vegas several times, and I know it's been mentioned to have happened in Phoenix once or twice.

They close roadways within a certain x-mile radius of the airport, and everyone just has to be stuck. And no, there aren't any announcements I've ever seen, heard, or read.

I think it's fucking bullshit, especially when there is an AFB on the north side of town.
it wasn't nearly as bad when bush came as it was when fucking cheney came.
why the fuck would you want to land at falcon field anyway.
fucking fucks
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Post by Animalor »

I live in Ottawa and work at about 500 feet of the US embassy and within a 5 mile radius of just about every embassy in canada.

We have foreign leaders here ALL the time and Bush was the only visit where I noticed any type of disruption to people's lives.

There was a no-fly zone for 12 miles around the city and in the days before the event, we had black, unmarked helicopters, fighter planes and smaller crafts buzzing over downtown.

I know he's the president of the US and all but this shit is just a little extreme.

Service was REALLY fast in the restaurants near where I worked though as people didn't even bother coming downtown and half the folks in my office just worked from home.
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Post by Zaelath »

We had the same bullshit when he visited Australia, for someone annointed by God he sure is a paranoid little fucker.
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Post by Cartalas »

So Fucking What!!
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Post by Boogahz »

Zaelath wrote:We had the same bullshit when he visited Australia, for someone annointed by God he sure is a paranoid little fucker.
Has anyone actively marked Prime Minister John Howard or any other Australian leader as a target of Aggression? I am not saying that I agree that ALL visits should be this extreme in the security sense, but I don't see it as paranoia when real threats have been made.
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Post by nobody »

it's all to protect him from you Zaelath.
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Post by Brotha »

Zaelath wrote:We had the same bullshit when he visited Australia, for someone annointed by God he sure is a paranoid little fucker.
I really doubt these were Bush's ideas, the Secret Service handles this type of stuff. Usually the Secret Service wants an assload of protection, and the president's staff has to negotiate with them to do something a little more sane. Who knows what it would have looked like if the Secret Service had their way completely...

Edit: And of course they also have to negotiate with the host countries. Reading a book on the Secret Service right now, they very rarely get everything they want (they make atleast 3 advance trips to plan it out, wherever he goes).
Last edited by Brotha on February 25, 2005, 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Akaran_D »

Speaking of the SS, I bet Bush is a nightmare for them.
Think of it... there's a world of people that want him dead. Not just t-cells, but several different governments, individuals both inside AND outside the US..

Think about it.
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Post by Nick »

Ok Aruman I just deleted like a thousand word essay on why you are wholly misinformed peppered with various insults on why it is wrong to be as wrong as you are.

Instead, just have a look at this, if you can keep your mind on one thing for long enough.

http://www.chomsky.info/articles/20041217.htm
Last edited by Nick on February 26, 2005, 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Aruman »

Teenybloke wrote:The sad fact is Bush would be killed if he spent two minutes walking around Europe.


Even in Britain (main US allies) I wouldn't assume he would last more than 2 minutes.

When he was in Belfast last year there was like a ten mile security wall around him, even with that several hundred people had to be attacked by police dogs to stop them from catching the cunt.

I was at the demo near the place (called Hillsborough) and the police would not let any protestors (even peaceful ones) inside the town limits.

However when Clinton was here he was able to walk through some of the roughest slums there are to a roaring reception.

Now I am sure all of us are the psychos and Bush just needs protected from all us terrorists (for terrorist read person with opposing view to the US)

He would have died if there had not been such a massive police presence.

So it's already been done Winnow you will be glad to hear hehe :p
Yeah, those people in Belfast are so civilized... utterly superior to those people in the United States.

Be thankful that security and police were there to protect you from yourselves.

As far as Clinton goes... You are right, nothing he did ever got anyone angry, except maybe a few Somali's.

You have to actually do something that has significance in order to have that happen.

Wait, he pissed off his wife... that's significant I guess.
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Post by Kelshara »

So a good President has to piss off half the world, lie to the UN, invade a sovereign country on bogus reasons, kill innocents and run the economy into the largest deficit ever.

Check!
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Post by Kylere »

Hell Clinton held up LAX for 8 hours one day while he got a haircut, Germany got off cheap.
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Post by Aruman »

Kelshara wrote:So a good President has to piss off half the world, lie to the UN, invade a sovereign country on bogus reasons, kill innocents and run the economy into the largest deficit ever.

Check!
So a good president needs to ask countries with no influnce on anything whatsover for permission to protect our national interests.

Check!

It's funny how people always want to take the easy way for everything. Sometimes you have to play hardball, even when some people aren't going to like it.
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Post by Kelshara »

Sometimes yes. Just funny how you chose the irrelevant countries to play hardball with at the cost of most of your long-term allies.

Playing hardball when needed: Fine.
Doing it for no reason at all: Bullshit. And the fact you defend it still is pretty pathetic. But then again, it doesn't surprise me.
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Post by Aruman »

Kelshara wrote:Sometimes yes. Just funny how you chose the irrelevant countries to play hardball with at the cost of most of your long-term allies.

Playing hardball when needed: Fine.
Doing it for no reason at all: Bullshit. And the fact you defend it still is pretty pathetic. But then again, it doesn't surprise me.
Yeah, there was absolutely no reason to do what we did, seeing how the UN was so damn effective at enforcing sanctions.
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Post by Kelshara »

Stockpiles of WMDs! Immediate threat to the US! Mobile chemical weapons factories! :shock:

:roll:
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Post by Kaldaur »

Yeah, there was absolutely no reason to do what we did, seeing how the UN was so damn effective at enforcing sanctions.
And here, ladies and gentlemen, is a classic textbook case of what we call dumbfuckery. Note the glazed over eyes, the low brainwave activity, the apparent inability to rationalize a simple fact: UN sanctions were apparently working.
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Post by Aruman »

Kaldaur wrote:
Yeah, there was absolutely no reason to do what we did, seeing how the UN was so damn effective at enforcing sanctions.
And here, ladies and gentlemen, is a classic textbook case of what we call dumbfuckery. Note the glazed over eyes, the low brainwave activity, the apparent inability to rationalize a simple fact: UN sanctions were apparently working.
Yep... yet another shithead who thinks they know me. You use personal attacks when someone disagrees with your opinion. How's that for intelligence.

Sanctions were not working, not as they were intended, that's something you just refuse to realize. Glazed over eyes fits you to a T.
Last edited by Aruman on February 26, 2005, 3:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Fairweather Pure »

Sanctions were not working, not as they were intended, that's something you just refuse to realize. Glazed over eyes fits you to a T.
What were they not accomplishing? Iraq had no WMD, no chemical weapons, and it's military was in shambles.
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Post by Cartalas »

Im sure Germany wasnt bitching to much when we were keeping Communism from overtaking their country.
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Post by Nick »

Aruman, you seem to know less than fuck all about anything.

You just keep telling yourself you're oh so fucking civilized and all these evil people (terrorists, anyone who disagrees with you) will just go away!
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Post by Hesten »

Cartalas wrote:Im sure Germany wasnt bitching to much when we were keeping Communism from overtaking their country.
I might have missed a history lesson somewhere, i wont deny that, but when did the US ever keep communism from overtaking germany?
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Post by Kelshara »

I guess it can be argued they did during the Cold War. Well half of Germany anyway.. Not sure what that has to do with anything now though, just like pretty much anything else Cartalas spews.
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Post by Boogahz »

Hesten wrote:
Cartalas wrote:Im sure Germany wasnt bitching to much when we were keeping Communism from overtaking their country.
I might have missed a history lesson somewhere, i wont deny that, but when did the US ever keep communism from overtaking germany?

The Sanctions also included regime change, lessening of repression against Iraqi's, etc.. The military sanctions were not the only ones brought up by the UN.
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Post by Kylere »

Umm on the Germany thing, Stalin planned on making Germany a satellite under the harshest possible controls, while fading it into multiple countries. The USSR took paranoia to the highest levels, but they really had it out understandably for Germany. The US decided to contest this and made it possible for everyone born in West Germany for 50 years to have a decent life.

No matter what your hangup is about the US today, no matter what problem you have with Bush ( as if he cares, hell as if you care, if you voted for Bush or whoever that guy was that ran against him from the Dems, then you are PART of the PROBLEM) you cannot deny that the Berlin Air Lift, the refusla to allow the Sovs to take all of Germany, the prepared forces to withstand a Soviet attack on western Europe were all good things.
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Post by Aruman »

Teenybloke wrote:Aruman, you seem to know less than fuck all about anything.

You just keep telling yourself you're oh so fucking civilized and all these evil people (terrorists, anyone who disagrees with you) will just go away!
That's not what I said at all, that's you inserting words into my mouth. People disagreeing with me is fine, and expected.

I was talking about your cronies where YOU live. What did the United States' actions in Iraq do to your little part of the world? Absolutely nothing comes to mind.

So why this:
Teenybloke wrote: When he was in Belfast last year there was like a ten mile security wall around him, even with that several hundred people had to be attacked by police dogs to stop them from catching the cunt.
Don't you think that those 'several hundred people' might be a bit deranged? If this is fact, which I doubt. I think it's all exaggeration on your part to try to emphasize your hatred.

Trying to get at the US president to harm him sounds a bit deranged to me, or were those Saddam Loyalists living where you are? :lol:
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Post by Kelshara »

I was talking about your cronies where YOU live. What did the United States' actions in Iraq do to your little part of the world? Absolutely nothing comes to mind.
Actually plenty of terrorist threats have been raised against different European countries, some have been followed through on (Spain comes to mind), some have been avoided and some have not happened. And I dare say the US' actions had a larger impact in Europe than in US itself, due to the geographical nature of Europe.

Oh and I doubt Bush would be killed walking in most places in Europe. Might be hit by some rotten eggs though and I doubt the walk would be very pleasant. He isn't exactly well liked or respected.
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Post by Nick »

Just edited a 1000 word essay on how disturbingly wrong and foolish you are Aruman, if you want it Ill pm you it :)

However, without being too insulting, I recommend you just read this instead.

http://www.chomsky.info/articles/20041217.htm
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Post by Aruman »

Kelshara wrote: Actually plenty of terrorist threats have been raised against different European countries, some have been followed through on (Spain comes to mind), some have been avoided and some have not happened. And I dare say the US' actions had a larger impact in Europe than in US itself, due to the geographical nature of Europe.

Oh and I doubt Bush would be killed walking in most places in Europe. Might be hit by some rotten eggs though and I doubt the walk would be very pleasant. He isn't exactly well liked or respected.
Isn't it strange how some people in some countries believe in something enough to be willing to sacrifice for the reason, and not succumb to terrorist threats? Who would imagine there would be anyone like that anymore these days.

I do see plenty of people that feel the need to complain about things, and aren't sacrificing squat, except hot air.

You don't seem to understand or accept the fact that there are people in the United States who believe that what is/was going on in Iraq is/was the right thing to do.
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Post by Aruman »

Teenybloke wrote:Just edited a 1000 word essay on how disturbingly wrong and foolish you are Aruman, if you want it Ill pm you it :)

However, without being too insulting, I recommend you just read this instead.

http://www.chomsky.info/articles/20041217.htm
No interest at all...

You are entitled to your own opinions, I am entitled to mine. That's all that needs to be said.

Have fun over there.
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Post by Nick »

Yes I agree, however, I find it to be useful to base your opinions on fact rather than a misinformed and inflated ego.
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Post by Niffoni »

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Post by Aruman »

Niffoni wrote:there's nothing more frightening than learning, is there?
Nothing like reading biased articles either.
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Post by Nick »

Well you would know!
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Post by Kelshara »

Isn't it strange how some people in some countries believe in something enough to be willing to sacrifice for the reason, and not succumb to terrorist threats? Who would imagine there would be anyone like that anymore these days.
Actually there are plenty of those people. You usually call them terrorists because they don't believe in the same thing you do. The ones on your side are usually after money.
You don't seem to understand or accept the fact that there are people in the United States who believe that what is/was going on in Iraq is/was the right thing to do.
I understand that perfectly. I live here. And the fact that people believe in the BS you are fed by Bush is the scary part. You are a perfect example of that.
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Aruman
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Post by Aruman »

Kelshara wrote:
You don't seem to understand or accept the fact that there are people in the United States who believe that what is/was going on in Iraq is/was the right thing to do.
I understand that perfectly. I live here. And the fact that people believe in the BS you are fed by Bush is the scary part. You are a perfect example of that.
Much <3 for those people we call terrorists that bomb their own people with suicide bombers and car bombs. Nope, not terrorists at all.

Here's a little something for you... if you don't like what President Bush has to say... Don't listen... turn the channel, don't read the paper and so on. He's the President, he won't be going anywhere for 4 more years.

If you don't like what I say, don't read my posts or put me on ignore.
Last edited by Aruman on February 26, 2005, 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cartalas
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Post by Cartalas »

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah

Look another Kelshara post


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Lohrno
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Post by Lohrno »

Aruman wrote: Much <3 for those people we call terrorists that bomb their own people with suicide bombers and car bombs. Nope, not terrorists at all.

Here's a little something for you... if you don't like what President Bush has to say... Don't listen... turn the channel, don't read the paper and so on. He's the President, he won't be going anywhere for 4 more years.

If you don't like what I say, don't read my posts or put me on ignore.
I will say that I don't like that other people like what he says. The fact that he has so much power is very upsetting and worrying. I'm not just saying that to be a liberal knob either, I've said it before, I'd much rather have Bob Dole or Ronald Reagan (even with Reagan's putting us into huge debt) than Bush.

I'm not saying it's time to shut him up, but I think it's time we stopped rolling over...Write your congress people prs.

I know this was kinda a derail but I kinda wanted to say that turning off the TV because I don't like what he says does not help.
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Aruman
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Post by Aruman »

Lohrno wrote: I know this was kinda a derail but I kinda wanted to say that turning off the TV because I don't like what he says does not help.
I can understand that, but the negative, hate filled comments don't help either, or am I missing something?
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