The Purple Finger

[Voronwë]

What do you think of the purple finger salute?


The Purple Finger salute is Americans putting Purple Ink on their fingers to show solidarity.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/02/ ... index.html

Lawmakers honored those elections with a show of purple, the color that marked the index fingers of Iraqis who voted.

A wave of purple fingers went up at each mention of the Iraqi vote, a gesture organized by Rep. Bobby Jindal, a Louisiana Republican whose parents emigrated from India, to demonstrate solidarity with Iraqi voters. In a letter to fellow lawmakers, Jindal said he wanted to display support for "people throughout the world who seek freedom."

[Akaran_D]

Wth is the purple finger salute?

[Dregor Thule]

At the risk of being lumped together with Akaran, I too have no idea what you're talking about Voro. Is it some new form of torture the troops have cooked up?

[miir]

In Afghanistan and Iraq, voters fingers were marked with a purple (or black) ink that is near impossible to wash off.


A precaution to prevent voters from voting multiple times.

[Winnow]

Sounds like a cheesy ID check for college drinking parties. They should have stamped the back of their hand with a smiley face.

[Niffoni]

Cute. Even gayer than "Hands Across America" but cute.

[Lalanae]

I think it's nice.

[Lynks]

I thought it prevented people from voting twice.

[Aruman]

I thought it prevented people from voting twice.

Yes, that was the purpose.

Some people are just trying to find ways to disparage something good happening in Iraq.

[Pherr the Dorf]

I thought it prevented people from voting twice.

Yes, that was the purpose.

Some people are just trying to find ways to disparage something good happening in Iraq.

A US lawmaker dying his finger purple does jack shit for people in Iraq, sorry

[Nick]

And no one outside the US buys it for anything more than the sychophantic masturbation that it is.

[Sionistic]

Over in Iraq it does make sense, sometimes the simplest solution works the best.
However, whenever I see some US senator doing it, I dont mind seeing a lashing or two.

[Aruman]

I thought it prevented people from voting twice.

Yes, that was the purpose.

Some people are just trying to find ways to disparage something good happening in Iraq.

A US lawmaker dying his finger purple does jack shit for people in Iraq, sorry

Is that so?

I guess those Livestrong bracelets does nothing for people suffering from cancer, I suppose the yellow Ribbons do nothing for US military in Iraq. How many other symbolic gestures can others come up with that do nothing to help or inspire anyone?

I'd say they do more than you are willing to admit... but with your attitude... yeah, you are right.

[Niffoni]

I guess those Livestrong bracelets does nothing for people suffering from cancer, I suppose the yellow Ribbons do nothing for US military in Iraq.

The fact that in this day and age anyone needs to be told that wearing a ribbon or waving a flag, or inking your finger doesn't actually fucking DO anything is really, really sad.

Maybe if you had to EARN that ribbon, or finger ink by making a contribution... if a red ribbon were like a medal, earned by being a nurse to an AIDS patient... if an american flag on your car meant you were a volunteer firefighter. Maybe then they'd be more than empty gestures.

I'm all for using these things to raise awareness. There's nothing wrong with that. And I guess there's no major harm in deluding yourself into thinking that the "I Support Our Troops" bumper sticker on your SUV does jack shit to, you know, support said troops in any way. But let's be honest... clapping your hands and saying "I DO believe in fairies!" may bring Tinkerbell back to life, but it doesn't bring brave men home, it doesn't cure cancer, and it doesn't bring democracy to Iraq.

[Aruman]

I guess those Livestrong bracelets does nothing for people suffering from cancer, I suppose the yellow Ribbons do nothing for US military in Iraq.

I'm all for using these things to raise awareness. There's nothing wrong with that. And I guess there's no major harm in deluding yourself into thinking that the "I Support Our Troops" bumper sticker on your SUV does jack shit to, you know, support said troops in any way. But let's be honest... clapping your hands and saying "I DO believe in fairies!" may bring Tinkerbell back to life, but it doesn't bring brave men home, it doesn't cure cancer, and it doesn't bring democracy to Iraq.

Exactly, it raises awareness, that was my whole point. Saying that such gestures do nothing is ridiculous.

Bringing awareness to things can create charitable donations, care packages to the troops in Iraq and other countries, and encouraging the Iraqi people to continue with the creation of their democratic process. You know, things that let them know people are thinking of them during rough times.

With that said... I never said anything about curing cancer, bringing troops home, or bringing democracy to Iraq now did I?

If I saw someone clapping their hands and saying 'I DO believe in fairies', I'd be a little suspect of their sanity. Of course, when I asked for other examples, I didn't think someone would try to use something this flaky.

At least be fair with your comments instead of trying to put words in my mouth.

[Niffoni]

If the purpose is spreading the word, by all means go for it. My experience however is that people bullshit themselves. Y'know, buy flags at K-Mart to "help the war effort", wear ribbons to "fight AIDS" and that sort of nonsense, when there are actual, tangible things that they could be doing to help.

If my post was in any way unfair, I submit to you that I suspect I'm clinically retarded, so don't take it too personally.

[Pherr the Dorf]

And no dying your finger purple does nothing for people in Iraq, they are living in a shithole warzone and unlike the troops that come home and see the yellow ribbon magnets (made in china and donating in 65% of cases a whopping 0% of their profit to veteran causes) these people see a situation that is going to continue to be fucked for a great many years to come. Some US lawmaker that voted to make his country a great big crater dying his finger doesn't do shit.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Gee another thread filled with negativity and vile disgust.

[Moonwynd]

And no one outside the US buys it for anything more than the sychophantic masturbation that it is.

No, you and your like minded cronies feel this way. I have many friends that I have spoken with (outside of the US) that do not feel as you do.

When you say "no one" you generalize.

Regards,

Moon

[nobody]

Maybe if you had to EARN that ribbon, or finger ink by making a contribution... if a red ribbon were like a medal, earned by being a nurse to an AIDS patient... if an american flag on your car meant you were a volunteer firefighter. Maybe then they'd be more than empty gestures.

I'm all for using these things to raise awareness. There's nothing wrong with that. And I guess there's no major harm in deluding yourself into thinking that the "I Support Our Troops" bumper sticker on your SUV does jack shit to, you know, support said troops in any way. But let's be honest... clapping your hands and saying "I DO believe in fairies!" may bring Tinkerbell back to life, but it doesn't bring brave men home, it doesn't cure cancer, and it doesn't bring democracy to Iraq.

i can't tell you how many time's i've been driving to work in my uniform, with with my military plates, and airborne sticker on my car (which i earned) and have been blatenly cut off only to see a big fucking yellow ribbon on the dumbass's bumber, two inches from mine, saying "support our troops".

[Nick]

Like minded "cronies" = Europe and Asia!

Check your figures out before you throw your misguided sheep routine around Moon, the amount of people for your cause are massively outnumbered on this planet by those that see it as a pile of shit.

Fortunately for you (and this is the only reason) you are an aggressive warmongering nation who spends about 40-50% of their annual budget on defense (more than any other nation.....you wonder why?!)

Maybe some in the US buy your 'freedom' crap, but apart from that I see NO evidence of widespread support in ANY other country on this world. You ARE in the MASSIVE MINORITY. FACT!.

This is why you are alienated as a country from the rest of the world. This is why your country was attacked in the first place on 9/11.
This is why you should read up on books designed for people older than fucking high school.

It has nothing to do with me being a 'liberal' or whatever other inane insult you throw at me, hell you were some of the people who assumed Saddam played a part in 9/11.
I think we can safely assume anyone who was deluded into believing that is not worthy of a respected opinion (why? well for one you refuse to consider FACTS, preferring Optimistic rhetoric that means nothing.)

Negativity Mid? Check your own countires part in coups/sanctions/oppression/torture/murder/invasion before you throw around your 'hater' bullshit.

You are the fucking haters whether by intention or not, everyone else is just calling you on it. Fucking children, where do you get your education from? Where do you get your news from?

You are nothing more than a bunch of walking fucking tabloids, and for those that cannot see that (not my 'cronies'!) well....who really gives a fuck what they think?

They are as mentally inept as you.

When will you realise there is a difference between intention and effect, between what you think and what others think you think (I.E the Muslim world - might want to address that one if your fighting a war in their home). You are the ones who cannot make your point without killing people. Or do you deny that?

If you check your facts, that is exactly what Bin Laden did (because you are an ordinary all american (TM!) who voted for Bush, who sanctioned these 'necessary' deaths, are you any less guilty of murder than Bin Laden?) You knew there would be deaths, it was, as you saw it, an acceptable and necessary situation.
Again, just like Bin Laden.

I am sure Generic_Ali_01 in Iraq really gives a flying fuck about your purple fingers after you blew his family up.

The fact is, he wants you dead.

Yes you.

Why? Your attitude caused his families death. Are you proud of yourself? Are you PROUD to be an American?

THIS IS WHY TERRORISM AGAINST THE USA EXISTS.
What a fucking bad joke.

If you weren't so fucking egotistical about your 'achievements' you may get somewhere with this 'war'. Otherwise, you may start getting used to the fact that this planet is against your empirical attitude, apart from conservatives and businessmen (which accounts for about 8% of the total population of the planet, if even.

You are meant to be after Bin Laden, he wronged you (after you wronged him and his mates), but your hysterical nation is allowing the guilty to walk free in favour of killing innocents. While patting itself on the back with your new 'Democracy thumbs'.

Well you can shove them up your ass.

How the fuck is that going to protect your country from further attacks?

You are the filth of this planet along with the terrorists and half your own nation is ashamed of you. I could give a fuck what you think, you mindless pleb.

You would probably be shocked and awed to know that I actually think Bush's idea (in theory) is somewhat of a noble one, in terms of global peace and unity, but in practice what you and he both FAIL to acknowledge is that the attitude you portray is not one of unity, it is about PROTECTING the USA over ALL, (this is why the rest of the world can see through it so easily! This is also where all the 'oil' and 'Halliburton' and 'liberal' nonsense comes from) which is ok in itself, but when you start falsely accusing countries of having WMD you became the bad guys, the aggressors, all the while Bin Laden's plan to throw your country and the rest of the world into turmoil playing out better than he could ever have hoped for.

You are the gullible ones. You are the ones who are making this worse. As much as the terrorists. Killing a hundred thousand Iraqi's, is that not Terrorism?

Well lets look up 'Terrorism' shall we?

ter·ror·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tr-rzm)
n.
The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Wow, you are a massive hypocrite, congratulations on understanding the global situation.

Edit: Lol Nobody, the irony~

[Winnow]

A US lawmaker dying his finger purple does jack shit for people in Iraq, sorry

Is that so?

I guess those Livestrong bracelets does nothing for people suffering from cancer, I suppose the yellow Ribbons do nothing for US military in Iraq. How many other symbolic gestures can others come up with that do nothing to help or inspire anyone?

I'd say they do more than you are willing to admit... but with your attitude... yeah, you are right.

Not to get this thread off track or anything but Kerry wore one of those yellow wrist bracelets during his entire presidential campaign and it didn't help him.

And I acknowledge what the bracelet is supposed to stand for but it was probably the first thing Kerry ripped off after losing the election. If he still wears it today, I stand corrected (and I don't know so now's your chance to prove me wrong)

I did a search and only found articles about Kerry and the yellow band pre Nov 2nd. It's a shame if he did it as a cheap political stunt.

[nobody]

I am sure Generic_Ali_01 in Iraq really gives a flying fuck about your purple fingers after you blew his family up.

The fact is, he wants you dead.

teeny, from what i have seen with my own eyes in afghanistan and what i've heard from friends all over iraq, the people there DO support us. as many people that are sadly dying over there, how many people were tortured and killed under saddam and/or the taliban. hundreds of thousands that we know of, at least. the attitude of the people there is that of gratitude b/c they have more freedom and live in less fear than before.

the whole purple finger thing was started by iraqi's showing their defiance against insugents and their pride in having a new voice in their country. i think it's sick they way some senator whore'd it out to promote a political agenda. i thought it was great to see the iraqi's displying their pride but saddly it has turned into a spectacle in washington.

the yellow ribbon, "support our troops" and cancer wristband thing reminds me of the seinfeld episode where jerry runs for cancer but doesn't want to wear the ribbon and nearly incites a riot.

not to get away from your point of the US being badguys. i agree, some of the things our soldiers have done are disgusting and breaks my heart. but when you compare me to bin laden i think that goes too far friend. i wish i were as articulate as drolgin to argue my point, as you seem to only acknowledge an "educated" arguement. sounds elitest to me. which is perhaps why you won't listen to the iraqi people themselves. you don't care about their freedom b/c freedom means nothing to you. it is just a "buzzword" or "optomistic rhetoric" used by bush and his "cronies". we made a lot of mistakes in iraq i admit. we shouldn't have gone in the way we did. but we are there and i believe from iraq is and will be better off for what we are doing. if their freedom is serving american interests then i don't apologize. you call us imperialistic b/c we want the people of the world to have a voice in their own government. well shame on us. you try to expose a hidden agenda with the US's involvement in iraq but ignore the massive corruption within the UN oil for food program.

we do spend more on defense, but we also spend more then the next 5 or 6 countries combined on charity. and that's just from our government. our citizens provide massive amounts of relief and aid all over the world.

you make some very good point's teeny but the US is not the filthy evil bloodthirsty tyranical regime you paint us out to be.

[Fash]

I can agree that perceptions of other countries could hit most of teeny's points..

can't say I even agree that this is what the US should be doing right now, though I do understand bush's urgency to advance the agenda during his time... I approve of what we do, but do have problems with the way things we do are being perceived... we should set guidelines on paper so they can be judged against and enforced.

opposing your definition of terrorism, the difference is that ours was a lawful war.

The buildup was 10 years of talks and resolutions, his dick waving in kuwait, his subversion of the oil for food program, his $30,000 cash donations to the families of suicide bombers, his attempted assassinsation of a US president, his ability cash-wise to be able to purchase or manufacture wmd, and that in his hatred for us he could hand wmd or cash to terrorists or other rogue states to use against us.

I do believe things in Iraq are going to turn out great. Imagine a place where previously you could get jailtime for shaving your beard and could never voice dissent of your leader or the policies of your country, and now you can do pretty much whatever, and get involved with the political issues of your country.

The bad parts of Tyranny are over-looked, and while you look at it as we are forcing a government on them, i see it as only a framework, for a true representation of the needs and wants of the people inside it, free of other cultures.

[Tenuvil]

i can't tell you how many time's i've been driving to work in my uniform, with with my military plates, and airborne sticker on my car (which i earned) and have been blatenly cut off only to see a big fucking yellow ribbon on the dumbass's bumber, two inches from mine, saying "support our troops".

Pretty fucking sad, isn't it? This illustrates the hypocrisy that is so prevalent today. Put a Jesus emblem on your car and fuck over your fellow man daily. "Support our Troops" but fuck you if you think you're getting in front of me Airborne boy.

[Dregor Thule]

It's a nice sentiment I suppose, but screams of pandering to the already-converted. I guess if I really believed that they are completely sincere and selfless with their motivations I'd clap my hands for them.

[Nick]

As you may see, I get a little riled up when people blatantly misrepresent the facts.
In all honesty I do appreciate this place where we can talk and I appreciate your opinions, as long as they are yours, not just the latest soundbyte you picked up without checking the reality.

So although I know I invited flames, I am pretty pleasantly surprised at Nobody and Fash, cheers chaps

[Moonwynd]

First off Teeny... I never stated anything other than the fact that you over generalized by saying "no one". "No one" means NO one...and that is simply not true.

I never said that I believed that Saddam Hussein was linked to the events of 9/11.

Negativity Mid? Check your own countires part in coups/sanctions/oppression/torture/murder/invasion before you throw around your 'hater' bullshit.

After re-reading your posts it sounds like 9/11 was a blessing in disguise for you, Teeny. You finally have something in your life to focus your angst and anger upon...The United States.

but when you start falsely accusing countries of having WMD you became the bad guys, the aggressors

It was bad intelligence...not just from the CIA/NSA or any of the other US agencies...it was bad intel from other agencies as well. Bush's mistake was not owning up to the fact that we went there and went to war on bad intel...he waited to long after finding out the intel was bad to let the world know that...then when the world community found this out, Bush tried everything he could to link 9/11 with Saddam Hussein. A really, REALLY bad move...and I am not disputing that at all.

Here is my opinion...and it is not taken from sound snippets or tabloid trash. The USA is THE superpower right now. We do good AND bad in the world. I think Bush envisioned a global war on terror as his legacy...a chance for him to change the world for the better...to rise to the occasion and by means of a geopolitical shift...make the world safer and more peaceful.

The reason for going to war with Iraq...the WMD...never turned up. Some say they never had them...some say they had the capability...some say they were hidden before our arrival and are yet to be found...some say they were trucked off to Syria. At this point, we will never know...and it doesn't even matter any longer. People are divided...our nation is divided...the world is divided.

I do not have a solution. We are in a really big mess right now...and it is too late to pull out of Iraq now. There is such a power vacuum that someone could easily come to power that would make Saddam look like Mary Poppins.

I support my country...I do question the leadership and decision making that got us to where we are today...and I will still voice my opinion in support or against our actions...when I feel it is appropriate to do so. Being a "Proud American" means I have the right to my opinions...for or against our leadership...and not being afraid to voice them aloud.

[miir]

how many people were tortured and killed under saddam and/or the taliban. hundreds of thousands that we know of, at least

The only thing that we know of is that the USA is much more efficient at killing Iraqis than Saddam ever was.

[nobody]

OMFG! i'm sorry but can i just say that officers are the bane of the united states military!? we had to jump today which meant being on the flightline at 0600 and our commander wanted force us to watch a movie together at the end of the day but didn't bother to let us know until 1800. since "a bridge too far" is four hours long i didn't get home till about 2000! if i had been informed this would be the situation i would have left my key with my ex so as to prevent my pup's from shitting themselves. i feel aweful.

anyway, miir...that comment is not worth any more of a response than a hardy fuck off.

[Aruman]

OMFG! i'm sorry but can i just say that officers are the bane of the united states military!? we had to jump today which meant being on the flightline at 0600 and our commander wanted force us to watch a movie together at the end of the day but didn't bother to let us know until 1800.

Off topic but what unit are you in nobody?

I spent much of my time in the military at Ft. Bragg.

[Zaelath]

After re-reading your posts it sounds like 9/11 was a blessing in disguise for you, Teeny. You finally have something in your life to focus your angst and anger upon...The United States.

A lot of people outside the middle east had little better than contempt for the attitude of Americans (collectively) long before 9/11 ...

[Aruman]

After re-reading your posts it sounds like 9/11 was a blessing in disguise for you, Teeny. You finally have something in your life to focus your angst and anger upon...The United States.

A lot of people outside the middle east had little better than contempt for the attitude of Americans (collectively) long before 9/11 ...

Damn those cultural differences, always causing trouble aren't they?

I'm sure that no matter where you go you will find someone who doesn't like people from some other country, and all because of a tourist in most cases. It even happens here in the United States between states.

You want to see people with attitude? Go to New York.

[Nick]

You don't get it Aruman, they don't just hate you because you are the US OF A, they hate you for the stupid amount of underhand bullshit your country has pulled on them for the last 50 years.

It is not being huffy, it is legitimate anger you fool.

And Moon, hey thats cool that you can be proud to say what you feel, at least we share one thing in common

[Aruman]

You don't get it Aruman, they don't just hate you because you are the US OF A, they hate you for the stupid amount of underhand bullshit your country has pulled on them for the last 50 years.

I'm not even going to bother with a reply as to how lame that comment is.

I will say this though: Show a list of the 'underhanded bullshit' next to a list of what the United States has done to help others. I think you will find that one dwarfs the other.

[Nick]

Umm...so it's ok to kick the fuck out of someone as long as you give them a cake afterwards?

Think before you speak.

Not to mention there are so many things that the US could do TODAY that would be actually useful for the power of this world that would not really hurt you (or Britain, or France or Germany, all of these are guilty too). I don't think we can be too proud of how we have kept Africa for example in poverty by fairly easy enforcement of stupid debt and useless unhelpful trade restrictions.

[Aruman]

Umm...so it's ok to kick the fuck out of someone as long as you give them a cake afterwards?

That is your way of thinking and therin lies the problem. You keep seeing everything negative in anything someone says.

I never said that... what I said was:

Show a list of the 'underhanded bullshit' next to a list of what the United States has done to help others. I think you will find that one dwarfs the other.

Nowhere in what I said do I condone 'underhanded bullshit'. What I asked for was a list of the underhanded bullshit in a comparison.

Were the people punished and so on after any of these things occurred. Now, you know why I asked for the lists, so it kind of spoils the reason I asked for it.

[Zaelath]

Yes, but in the real world, no one gives a damn how philanthropic you are if you're also a pedophile/terrorist/rapist

Honestly, few people outside the US think of you as more than just a massive drain on the rest of the world.

No one gives a damn about your list either.

[Zaelath]

A lot of people outside the middle east had little better than contempt for the attitude of Americans (collectively) long before 9/11 ...

Damn those cultural differences, always causing trouble aren't they?

No, not everyone hates everyone else. Please point me to the country (prior to Bush pulling us into the middle east) that hates Australia.

It's NOT that Americans are misunderstood, people understand you and your motivations perfectly, it's that they don't care for WHAT YOU DO AND SAY.

Just try, for a minute, to put yourself in someone else's shoes. Pretend you frequent a soup kitchen. Now pretend that a group of college kids love to spend every lunch hour in the soup kitchen, eating Big Macs and laugh to themselves about how great their life is. Perhaps every now and then a few more of them arrive to eat and displace you from your favourite seat, because they got there first.

You don't think you would resent their display of wealth in such a way? Perhaps even grow to hate them for it?

And that's just the "peaceful co-existance" United States, that isn't bombing shit, and throwing their weight around.

Before you go there, the illustration is about rubbing the poor's faces in your wealth, people don't hate the US purely because you're wealthy. There are a lot of wealthy people that wish you'd just grow the hell up and stop pissing people off. You're like the King Ralph of nations.

[Aruman]

Yes, but in the real world, no one gives a damn how philanthropic you are if you're also a pedophile/terrorist/rapist

Lies... what was the first thing in the media when President Bush initially pledged 35 million to the Tsunami relief...

In contrast to your comment:

Honestly, few people outside the US think of you as more than just a massive drain on the rest of the world.

I think you would find many people in the United States would think we try to do too much for other countries, and it is a massive drain on the United States, but yet those same people still give, and give, and give. Oh those evil americans... the horror!

No one gives a damn about your list either.

Of course not... It's easy to ignore what the US has done for countries when you make lame Evil United States arguments. Comments like yours are nothing but hot air because you can't deny the good that the US has done for many other countries.

[Zaelath]

SO perhaps you'll also tell me that these people http://www.veeshanvault.org/forums/view ... hp?t=13299 should be remembered for feeding and housing 7 children as well?

People will give you the kudos for your charity when you don't have traits that completely overshadow it.

[masteen]

I've got a purple finger...




It's in my pants.

[Aruman]

SO perhaps you'll also tell me that these people http://www.veeshanvault.org/forums/view ... hp?t=13299 should be remembered for feeding and housing 7 children as well?

People will give you the kudos for your charity when you don't have traits that completely overshadow it.

Zaelath... VV King of Negativity...

If you lived here and you were my neighbor, I would move just to get away from that negativity black hole you have hanging over your head.

It's a disease man... go to the doctor and get cured!

[Zaelath]

Screw it, teaching an American to have a shred of empathy is like teaching a cougar to be a vegetarian.

[Moonwynd]

Screw it, teaching an American to have a shred of empathy is like teaching a cougar to be a vegetarian.

I love it how people keep spouting these absolutes...as if all Americans are lumped into one intolerant mass.

[Winnow]

Screw it, teaching an American to have a shred of empathy is like teaching a cougar to be a vegetarian.

Yeah, Australians are real winners...so much better than Americans. Get your own country in order before whining about ours.

Australia's National Shame:
Peter Qasim's 2191 stolen days

2 September 2004

By Greg Egan
Perth, WA
phone (08) 9344-8609
gregegan(at)netspace.net.au

Thursday 9th September 2004 will see a dismal anniversary marked across Australia, with the passing of six years in detention for a 30-year-old man from Indian Kashmir, Peter Qasim.

Peter was born Muhammad Qasim in a small village close to the "Line of Control" that serves as a de facto border between India and Pakistan in this disputed territory. His father disappeared when he was very young, presumably killed by the Indian security forces for his separatist political activities, and a few years later his mother died. A friend of his father took him into his home, but in 1992 Peter himself was detained by the security forces, and held for a week of brutal interrogation.

Traumatised, and afraid that he might be arrested and tortured again at any time, Peter fled the village, and managed to eke out a living and find shelter with sympathetic people in the surrounding district. He lived this way for 5 years, but after militants killed a high-ranking Indian army officer in 1997, he was afraid of being swept up in the subsequent crackdown, and decided to leave the country.

He ended up in Papua New Guinea, but after fourteen months struggling to survive with no legal status there, he crossed to an island in the Torres Strait in a tiny boat with three other people.

Australia's Department of Immigration accepted Peter's story, but decided that he wouldn't face ongoing persecution. After the Refugee Review Tribunal also rejected him, he escaped from Port Hedland detention centre and spent less than a day at large before being caught. He served three months in prisons in Perth, then was moved to the claustrophobic confines of the detention centre at Perth airport. In 2000, he spent four months intermittently hospitalised for severe depression. After stretches in the Curtin and Woomera detention centres, he has ended up in Baxter, near Port Augusta in South Australia.

In August 2003, Peter decided that even the risks he faced in India would be preferable to dying in detention in Australia. He wrote to the Minister for Immigration asking to be returned, and shortly afterwards applied for an Indian passport.

The Indian authorities demanded proof of his identity and nationality; Peter had none. He had had no official schooling, no driver's licence, no electoral registration. If records about him had ever existed back in India, nobody could find them. Unsurprisingly, the authorities also couldn't find anyone who'd admit to knowing this man who'd fled from the security forces. Without any way to prove his identity, he was stuck in detention indefinitely.

Until recently, the Federal court had been releasing people into the community who found themselves in such a quandary, but on 6 August 2004 the High Court ruled that the Migration Act authorised detention for life for people who agreed to leave Australia but found it impossible. Immigration Minister Amanda Vanstone declared soon after that she would act as a "safety valve" and ensure nobody was detained forever, but on 31 August she announced that she'd reviewed all the relevant cases, and Peter Qasim was not among those granted freedom.

Why not? The Department of Immigration claims that Peter has been uncooperative and inconsistent in his story. His file reveals a different problem: most of his processing has been conducted without interpreters, because Peter's crash-course in using English in PNG gave him a misplaced confidence, and the Department went along with his decision to speak for himself. Getting by in Port Moresby was not the same as dealing with official paperwork and interviews, and compounded by the Department's own clerical errors and the impossibility of cramming his complex story into the slots on various forms, this has created a mish-mash of seeming contradictions, though in reality Peter has done his best to tell the same true story all along.

Peter is admired by scores of detainees for the selfless assistance he's given them in their own battles with paperwork and bureaucracy, and valued by dozens of Australian friends for his extraordinary wit, intelligence and resilience. But nobody can face life imprisonment for no reason. As Peter once said, even Nelson Mandela in prison had the struggle for his nation's freedom to give him strength, but his own suffering serves no purpose for anyone. He is locked up, apparently forever, because of lost paperwork in India, and a file full of minor errors and misunderstandings in Australia.

[Zaelath]

This is a guy that crossed illegally into a foreign country, multiple actually.

He's not being tortured, he's not being interrogated, he's just being detained. He has no legal status in Australia, and hence no rights. It was his choice to come here illegally, we can't deport him anywhere, so we have to detain him or release him (and everyone else that lands here) into the community. Are you suggesting that we should have an open door policy?

If you tried for about 5 minutes you could find far worse things the Howard government is responsible for, but I've never supported him, unlike the Bush appologists.

[Winnow]

This is a guy that crossed illegally into a foreign country, multiple actually.

He's not being tortured, he's not being interrogated, he's just being detained. He has no legal status in Australia, and hence no rights. It was his choice to come here illegally, we can't deport him anywhere, so we have to detain him or release him (and everyone else that lands here) into the community. Are you suggesting that we should have an open door policy?

If you tried for about 5 minutes you could find far worse things the Howard government is responsible for, but I've never supported him, unlike the Bush appologists.

Look at those excuses fly!

I know Australia is bordering on total suckage but since your country doesn't really matter much in the grand scheme of things I went easy on you. With you being the Australian version of a liberal pussy, I'm sure nothing bad that happens in your country is because of you. It's always "those other guys". It's fun to sit back an whine about everything isn't it? Ahhhh, pass me another Fosters bitch!

[nobody]

Kiwi's > Aussie's

[Zaelath]

This is a guy that crossed illegally into a foreign country, multiple actually.

He's not being tortured, he's not being interrogated, he's just being detained. He has no legal status in Australia, and hence no rights. It was his choice to come here illegally, we can't deport him anywhere, so we have to detain him or release him (and everyone else that lands here) into the community. Are you suggesting that we should have an open door policy?

If you tried for about 5 minutes you could find far worse things the Howard government is responsible for, but I've never supported him, unlike the Bush appologists.

Look at those excuses fly!

I know Australia is bordering on total suckage but since your country doesn't really matter much in the grand scheme of things I went easy on you. With you being the Australian version of a liberal pussy, I'm sure nothing bad that happens in your country is because of you. It's always "those other guys". It's fun to sit back an whine about everything isn't it? Ahhhh, pass me another Fosters bitch!

So answer the question, bright boy. Should we have an open door policy?

Now, think carefully, because Australian citizens can enter the US for 3 months without a visa http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/witho ... 990.html#2

Regardless, I really don't see how this relates to travelling to foreign countries, capturing people, and dragging them back to your super happy fun camps in Guantanamo.

Not to mention, you've quoted a classic liberal pussy ranting based on third hand knowledge and supposition. No wonder you approve the use of military force based on dodgy intel from compromised third parties.

Your inborn reliance on pop-culture and inherent ignorance are amusing though, almost no one drinks Fosters in Australia.