Sex tactics at Guantanamo bay

nobody · Post by **nobody** » January 28, 2005, 9:49 pm

OMFG! is this the second thread where i had to side with the damn lib's? and i'm a soldier which is ironic.

who asked for proof?

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/fbi ... ations.pdf

pg 4 other than my own personal fucking experience in afghanistan that's all the proof i will give you unless you want to go to 97E school.

the biggest thing to keep in mind is the huge difference in culture. persians and arabs view and react to shame and guilt in a completely different way than westerners. that doesn't mean they are immune to our methods. rather you must go about it a specific way.

ends justify the means!? that's the terrorists motto you fucknuts. i agree lib's whine about "stress positions" and other reasonable methods but torture is unacceptable.

voro i salute you. couldnt have said it better myself.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » January 28, 2005, 11:55 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:It's a war! Hello? Any of this sinking in?

Provide a declaration of war from the United States please.

Thanks.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » January 29, 2005, 12:29 am

Siji wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:It's a war! Hello? Any of this sinking in?
Provide a declaration of war from the United States please.

Thanks.

I am declare teh War on Ignorance!!1

Now ya'll best just sit back and enjoy it if I "capture" one of you and make you my gimp.

nobody · Post by **nobody** » January 29, 2005, 12:38 am

if someone made a poll of top daily or weekly vv quote's, this would be my pick.

roflmfaolololllol

Niffoni · Post by **Niffoni** » January 29, 2005, 12:57 am

nobody wrote:OMFG! is this the second thread where i had to side with the damn lib's? and i'm a soldier which is ironic.

Siding with the libs (some on this board anyway) would sound more like "Let's not have a war, someone's feelings might get hurt".

Pointing out that such tactics are idiotic is more like wanting to WIN the war, and thus being disgusted with counterproductive asshattery like this.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » January 29, 2005, 1:44 am

Anyone who supports this torture camp is no fucking better than the shit Cartalas ate for lunch.

Fucking hypocritical bloodthirsty dickheads.

Ramseis · Post by **Ramseis** » January 29, 2005, 4:04 am

I guess its ok to decapitate and shoot US civilians and any other civilian that gets captured by these people?

Look at it from both sides. From what I've seen so far its bad to use this "torture" but its ok to use a knife to cut a persons head off.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » January 29, 2005, 4:25 am

Who is saying that?

The point is you're the richest most developed country in the world, not some backward fucking yokel Eastern pyscho cult.

Isn't that what your fighting? You are a hypocrite.

Can you prove that all the people in Guantanamo Bay have actually done anything? No you cannot.

In fact I will put money down any day of the week that a sizeable number of the detainees in guantanamo will gradually be released without charge.

The world has seen your real attitude to freedom, the equality of man and how primitive and nasty you are.

Can you assume it is reasonable for these trials that will at some point start to be carried out on prisoners in this way, bear in mind some of their possible sentences include the death penalty and life imprisonment, to be decided on the whim of some redneck military fucker?

No you cannot.

Get the fuck over it, sort your fucking country out, no one is falling for this freedom/democracy bullshit, you are as a nation more damaging to this world than any terrorist.

Does it hurt to admit? Check out your own country's human rights records and you will find your leg to stand on just walked out.

I swear to god you guys are more like Nazi Germany in some of your views than any other developed country these days. It is fucking scary.

Fascism, racism, torture, holding innocent men without trial for whatever time you like, holding guilty men but not allowing them a fair trial, the blatant disregard for human rights, which by the way is not an option it is an obligation (since you signed up and all), these are all.......

(drumroll)

Bad things!

Are you really a nation too busy gorging on Mcdonalds and waving your flags (tribal throwback btw you retards) to understand these basic concepts the rest of humanity learned when they were 5?

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » January 29, 2005, 6:57 am

All this comming from a guy who lives in a country that released this tourture onto the world!!!

"Dixies Midnight Runners"

Truant · Post by **Truant** » January 29, 2005, 10:54 am

I absolutely love the "they do it, so that makes it ok for us to do it" justification.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » January 29, 2005, 12:17 pm

Ramseis wrote:I guess its ok to decapitate and shoot US civilians and any other civilian that gets captured by these people?

Look at it from both sides. From what I've seen so far its bad to use this "torture" but its ok to use a knife to cut a persons head off.

No it is not OK, but you ignore a few points though:

- You claim to have a moral high ground and be better than them. If you are, then you can't use the "They do it so we will as well!" reasoning.
- The civilians were in a war zone. Quite a few of the Gitmo prisoners were not.

The first point is the most important. You claim you are spreading freedom and democracy and then this happens. You are basically creating a huge increase in hatred towards the US, which will also lead to more recruits for terrorist organizations. You know, those you are trying to fight?

Not to mention all the big talk about bringing peace to the middle east. The US is losing so much credibility now that peopel will walk away from any peace talk table they are leading. People like Midnyte loves to talk about "Seeing the big picture" and "Long-term plans" but they are as blind as bats when it comes to this. You are ruining any chance of a long-term peace that you MIGHT have had.

You can't fight hatred with hatred. It wont work.

Niffoni · Post by **Niffoni** » January 29, 2005, 12:54 pm

Cartalas wrote:All this comming from a guy who lives in a country that released this tourture onto the world!!!

"Dixies Midnight Runners"

That's "Dexy's". If it were Dixies, Eileen had been the dude's sister.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » January 29, 2005, 12:57 pm

The two biggest problems with this are:

1. It undermines our goals in Iraq and the Middle East as a whole by turning a sizable portion of the population against us. This sort of action is far more damaging to how we are viewed in the long-term in the Middle East than the war alone was. These actions indicate, to a number of people, a total lack of respect for the culture and region that we are attempting to influence. It will undermine our security by producing more insurgents, and undermine our hopes for long-term stability in much the same way.

2. It provides our opponents total justification to treat anyone they capture in the same way. How can we possibly feign outrage over physical, mental, or sexual torture being committed against coalition troops and civilians when there are a variety of well documented incidents of torture performed by coalition troops against insurgents, in a wide variety of locations across a wide variety of timeframes?

Even discounting our obligation to take the high ground and act in accordance with human rights standards and such, it should be very clear that these actions, in a very tangible way, undermine our goals in Iraq.

Animale · Post by **Animale** » January 29, 2005, 2:50 pm

The torture of the Guantanamo detainees answers one question for me at least... the abu ghraib incident was neither isolated, nor a rogue unit operating outside of the norm. It was instead encouraged, and possibly even directed, from the highest levels of our military establishment. This probably includes the civilian authorities above the military.

Now, where does the buck stop on this issue? Hopefully Congress (both the House and Senate) have enough balls to find out. If they don't, then maybe a push should be started for an independent council appointment on this issue. It is WAY more important to the future of our nation than any hanky panky or financial dishonesty. We need to find out where we as a nation started down this horribly wrong path.

Animale

Brotha · Post by **Brotha** » January 29, 2005, 9:02 pm

Animale wrote:The torture of the Guantanamo detainees answers one question for me at least... the abu ghraib incident was neither isolated, nor a rogue unit operating outside of the norm. It was instead encouraged, and possibly even directed, from the highest levels of our military establishment. This probably includes the civilian authorities above the military.

First off, I'm again going to disagree that what is being done at Gitmo truly qualifies as "torture." Comparing this in anyway to, for instance, what was done under Saddam is more than a little far fetched. Not that I think being better than facist dictators should be the bench mark, but please, having women in thongs and mini skirts doing the questioning isn't "torture."

Secondly, do I need to quote from the investigation that was done concerning Abu Ghraib? Abu Ghraib was perpetrated by a handful of sick individuals, and the conditions were a big reason why it happened- breakdown in discipline, them doing jobs they weren't trained for, too many prisoners to deal with, etc. If you want to blame the higher ups for those conditions you can, but it was in no way "encouraged."

I would be willing to bet you anything that the prisoners we are taking in Iraq right now are being treated better than the Germans or Japanese that we took prisoner during WW2. At the time all sorts of abuse was happening, but it simply wasn't being reported or sensationalized by the press. For instance, if some Germans surrended who were wearing American boots, it was assumed they had stolen them from American prisoners and the left the prisoner to freeze with no boots- many Americans would gun them down in cold blood on the spot, even if they had surrendered.

The things that are going on at Gitmo are being done in a tightly controlled environment to a relatively small number of people. Are there some innocent people there? I hope not, but there probably are. Are there innocent people who are currently serving time in our prisons (or perhaps even on death row)? Yes, I'm sure there are. In a war environment you can't exactly read someone their Miranda rights, go around finger printing the AK-47 you found at the scene of the crime, etc.

Just to reiterate this, I'm against torture under any circumstances, but I'm not against certain unconventional techniques being used under certain circumstances. I completely agree with the argument that if we used torture we'd be stooping down to the terrorist's level, undermining our authority, etc, etc.

Animale · Post by **Animale** » January 29, 2005, 10:03 pm

One time is an incident
Two times is a conspiracy

Animale

Nick · Post by **Nick** » January 30, 2005, 3:41 pm

Brotha, the fact is the US has used torture, very publicly.

Or have they not?

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » January 30, 2005, 7:31 pm

Teenybloke wrote:Brotha, the fact is the US has used torture, very publicly.

Or have they not?

That's Midnyte's only problem with it. That word of this got out to the public.