Sex tactics at Guantanamo bay

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » January 28, 2005, 3:53 pm

Sexual Tactics used at Guantanamo Bay

Uhm...Wow it sounds not so bad but read down about the mensrual blood thing. That is just fucking wrong...Sorry but I put terrorism on the moral high ground to some of the things done here.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » January 28, 2005, 4:21 pm

Lohrno wrote:Sexual Tactics used at Guantanamo Bay

Uhm...Wow it sounds not so bad but read down about the mensrual blood thing. That is just fucking wrong...Sorry but I put terrorism on the moral high ground to some of the things done here.

OH NOS!!!! not the Red ink!!!

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » January 28, 2005, 4:26 pm

From what I understand, being around a woman when she is mensrutating is like a very deep sin. It would be like forcing a Christian to have homosexual sex, or to say there is no god.

nobody · Post by **nobody** » January 28, 2005, 4:27 pm

as a soldier in the MI i have to say this disgusts me beyond description! i'd fucking drop her off in the middle of the desert in the middle east and let them deal out her punishment.

Brotha · Post by **Brotha** » January 28, 2005, 4:31 pm

Personally I think the coolest tactic used at Gitmo was draping the Israeli flag over a detainee. Hahaha so evil.

nobody · Post by **nobody** » January 28, 2005, 5:46 pm

personally i think the coolest tactic i've ever seen (in person btw) was feeding and treating the detainees humainly. you wouldn't believe what a shock that is to them. ten times more so than anything that would impress brotha b/c they unfortunately expect to be treated like shit.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » January 28, 2005, 5:49 pm

When it's someone who would be firing automatic weapons and rockets at you if he wasn't in custody.... do whatever it takes to get the information out of them... i do not care.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · January 28, 2005, 5:50 pm

Fash wrote:When it's someone who would be firing automatic weapons and rockets at you if he wasn't in custody.... do whatever it takes to get the information out of them... i do not care.

I subscribe to this theory as well.

Animale · Post by **Animale** » January 28, 2005, 6:01 pm

Then you are no better than them.

Animale

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » January 28, 2005, 6:06 pm

fucking scum are no better then the terrorist

honestly the best punishment for high level terrorist is to give them a life sentence in a low security federal prison...let the assholes (literally) make friends with some of the other inmates

Fash · Post by **Fash** » January 28, 2005, 6:12 pm

Animale wrote:Then you are no better than them.

Animale

it's not the same thing, we are not trying to kill them... we are trying to save lives, our lives, afghani lives, and iraqi lives... you don't have a reliable alternative for information extraction, so you would rather we continue with worse intelligence than we already have? hey thanks!

you'll piss and shit blood when an american troop is killed in iraq, but you wont condone the 'odd' treatment of a few shitbags to save him?...

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » January 28, 2005, 6:15 pm

This is strategically and morally wrong.

Morally I think anyone who is religious can agree with. I am agnostic so I could take the cruel route and say "Fuck em! That's what you get for believing in religion." But I recognize the cruelty of this since most people with religion should be caring more about what happens to them after life than what happens in it. This means that doing these things is actually more cruel than just killing them.

Now, here's where the strategy comes in. If somehow these people who have been treated in this matter get out. (Either by legal or illegal means...) What are they going to do? They want to redeem themselves in the eyes of their god, and have something in their holy book like "He who dies in defense of Islam is guaranteed entrance to heaven."

Now take 3 guesses as to what that means they would do next...

"So don't let them out." I hear you say.

What ever happened to our tenet of "Innocent until proven guilty?" Wasn't it Neitsczhe (sp?) who said something like "He who fights monsters should take care that they do not become them. For when you stare into the abyss the abyss stares back at you."

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » January 28, 2005, 6:16 pm

my concern is that the dispersal of this information (true, false, or otherwise) on the internet and sattellite TV throughout the Middle East and Asia does so much more harm to United States' interests than it returns in actionable intelligence.

Beyond the fact that it is morally incongruous with the stated goals of our military mission as well as legally inconsistent with our Constitution as well as international treaties of which we are signitories, i seriously doubt that the net benefit to our military objectives are being met.

We have absolutely crushed any credibility to the fact that the United States is a country that upholds the ideals that it claims to, which does potentially harm our relationships down the road with our historic allies.

We have seriously and repeatedly damaged our credibility over the past 3 years, and it has weakened our ability to get financial and military assitance where it would alleviate the sacrifices we make.

I would certainly trade any sense of satisfaction I got at some insignificant Afghani being humiliated to turn over information that Bin Laden was in Pakistan 2 years ago (which i could have told you from watching TV), if it meant that one family didn't have to bury their child at 20.

Perhaps that is a sensationalistic dichotomy, but I think the ultimate lack of return on investment has life and death consequences.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » January 28, 2005, 6:16 pm

Fash wrote: you'll piss and shit blood when an american troop is killed in iraq, but you wont condone the 'odd' treatment of a few shitbags to save him?...

I would rather save him and countless American lives by getting him the fuck out of there. You realize that if they hear of this and they probably have, you have created more terrorists.

And if we treat our war prisoners this way how long will it be till we treat our civilians likewise?

Animale · Post by **Animale** » January 28, 2005, 6:16 pm

Yep.

We should be above torture. It is against our laws, against international laws. There is a REASON those laws were passed, and it wasn't to protect the "shitbag terrorist." It was to protect our boys when they get captured. We can't have our cake and eat it too in this case. We can't be shocked and morally outraged when our soldiers get tortured if we do it our fucking selves to enemies.

Its called the higher ground, and it always wins in the long run.

Animale

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » January 28, 2005, 6:22 pm

Animale wrote: Its called the higher ground, and it always wins in the long run.

Animale

Yeah...we won't be able to convince other countries that we're better than the terrorists...

Midnyte_Ragebringer · January 28, 2005, 6:25 pm

Lohrno wrote:
Fash wrote: You realize that if they hear of this and they probably have, you have created more terrorists.

Yep. There in lies the problem. They shouldn't have heard of this or any torture done to the prisoners. The media is to blame. Things done in war should not be made public to the masses. I don't condone what some of the people did at Abu Grahib(sp?), when they were doing it for fun. I do condone whatever means necessary when done in an organized fashion to gain military information. I would think most sensible people would agree that torture for fun is wrong no matter what religion, nationality, etc.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » January 28, 2005, 6:28 pm

WOW!!! now the fnord comes to the defense of the bible thumpers or might I say Koran Thumpers. Make up your mind is religion stupid or not? If it is this should not matter.

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » January 28, 2005, 6:31 pm

Fash wrote:When it's someone who would be firing automatic weapons and rockets at you if he wasn't in custody.... do whatever it takes to get the information out of them... i do not care.

You cannot prove that all of them would be. Many of the people held there are held on scanty evidence if any at all. Some are in there unjustly. In the US, police have to have reasonable evidence to arrest and hold you, no matter what you did. This isnt the case there.

But I guess torturing innocent people doesn't bother you as long as it satisfies your blood lust.

Edited out "sick fuck." That term is reserved for Midnyte.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » January 28, 2005, 6:32 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote: Yep. There in lies the problem. They shouldn't have heard of this or any torture done to the prisoners. The media is to blame. Things done in war should not be made public to the masses. I don't condone what some of the people did at Abu Grahib(sp?), when they were doing it for fun. I do condone whatever means necessary when done in an organized fashion to gain military information. I would think most sensible people would agree that torture for fun is wrong no matter what religion, nationality, etc.

So torture is okay as long as no one finds out about it? I would hate to see what would happen to you if you knew something about an Organized Crime Hit, and were told you and your family would be killed if you said anything, and the police torture you in secret...

nobody · Post by **nobody** » January 28, 2005, 6:32 pm

what you guys don't fucking get is treating them fairly actually does work. i didn't say be nice to them but treat them fairly.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » January 28, 2005, 6:34 pm

Cartalas wrote:WOW!!! now the fnord comes to the defense of the bible thumpers or might I say Koran Thumpers. Make up your mind is religion stupid or not? If it is this should not matter.

Freedom of and respect for religion is one of the many makes this country great. Religion should not however have anything to do with government. Thank you for the next point. This form of torture also violates the separation of church and state. Seriously, it's like a fucking inquisition.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » January 28, 2005, 6:36 pm

Lalanae wrote:But I guess torturing innocent people doesn't bother you as long as it satisfies your blood lust, sick fuck.

it's not blood lust... i don't take any pleasure in it at all... and if they're innocent it's a shame.. but the ends justify the means.

i dont think anyone here has any evidence that 'treating them fairly' works.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · January 28, 2005, 6:37 pm

Lalanae wrote:
Fash wrote:When it's someone who would be firing automatic weapons and rockets at you if he wasn't in custody.... do whatever it takes to get the information out of them... i do not care.
You cannot prove that all of them would be. Many of the people held there are held on scanty evidence if any at all. Some are in there unjustly. In the US, police have to have reasonable evidence to arrest and hold you, no matter what you did. This isnt the case there.

But I guess torturing innocent people doesn't bother you as long as it satisfies your blood lust, sick fuck.

Wake up call!!! The war in Iraq, isn't the US. The prisoners aren't American citizens who normally obey the law and live under the laws of a free country where they are innocent till proven guilty. It's a war! Hello? Any of this sinking in?

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » January 28, 2005, 6:38 pm

Fash wrote: ends justify the means.

Now that is a big problem with our society. So many believe this...

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » January 28, 2005, 6:39 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote: Wake up call!!! The war in Iraq, isn't the US. The prisoners aren't American citizens who normally obey the law and live under the laws of a free country where they are innocent till proven guilty. It's a war! Hello? Any of this sinking in?

You do remember why we adopted things like the geneva convention right? Regardless of the circumstances it is not okay to murder innocent civilians, and it is not okay to torture people.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · January 28, 2005, 6:42 pm

Fash wrote: i dont think anyone here has any evidence that 'treating them fairly' works.

Where were you Fash? During the Clinton admin we treated them fairly by ignoring them after they attacked our embassy's and the USS Cole and that did work. Not sure what you are talking about, lol. It's not like they then attacked us and kill 3000 americans in a terrorist attack using planes or anything. Treating them fairly does work.

They are after all very reasonable people who just want world peace and a chance for all people to have a fair and equal chance to make it in this world. You saw the beheading videos right? Don't they seem like reasonable poeple to you? When the US captures people in Iraq it is their duty to quickly determine through mind reading which ones would do those reasoable things and which would not. Damn, Fash what a blood lusting fuck you are!

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » January 28, 2005, 6:47 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Lalanae wrote:
Fash wrote:When it's someone who would be firing automatic weapons and rockets at you if he wasn't in custody.... do whatever it takes to get the information out of them... i do not care.
You cannot prove that all of them would be. Many of the people held there are held on scanty evidence if any at all. Some are in there unjustly. In the US, police have to have reasonable evidence to arrest and hold you, no matter what you did. This isnt the case there.

But I guess torturing innocent people doesn't bother you as long as it satisfies your blood lust, sick fuck.
Wake up call!!! The war in Iraq, isn't the US. The prisoners aren't American citizens who normally obey the law and live under the laws of a free country where they are innocent till proven guilty. It's a war! Hello? Any of this sinking in?

So we have the right to rape and torture any Iraqi citizen whenever we see fit just because they don't live in the US? You don;t give a shit about innocent people unless they are US citizens? Where is all your "OMG WE R SO GRATE! SPREDING DEMOCRASY 4 TEH PORE PEEPLES OF TEH WURLD!!" Some of those detainees have done nothing.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » January 28, 2005, 6:47 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote: They are after all very reasonable people who just want world peace and a chance for all people to have a fair and equal chance to make it in this world. You saw the beheading videos right? Don't they seem like reasonable poeple to you? When the US captures people in Iraq it is their duty to quickly determine through mind reading which ones would do those reasoable things and which would not. Damn, Fash what a blood lusting fuck you are!

Have you seen the Nick Berg Video...a lot is wrong with it that may suggest it wasn't Iraqis that did it. Notably, Zarqawi's missing prostetic...

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » January 28, 2005, 6:48 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Fash wrote: i dont think anyone here has any evidence that 'treating them fairly' works.
Where were you Fash? During the Clinton admin we treated them fairly by ignoring them after they attacked our embassy's and the USS Cole and that did work. Not sure what you are talking about, lol. It's not like they then attacked us and kill 3000 americans in a terrorist attack using planes or anything. Treating them fairly does work.

They are after all very reasonable people who just want world peace and a chance for all people to have a fair and equal chance to make it in this world. You saw the beheading videos right? Don't they seem like reasonable poeple to you? When the US captures people in Iraq it is their duty to quickly determine through mind reading which ones would do those reasoable things and which would not. Damn, Fash what a blood lusting fuck you are!

apples to oranges dumb ass.

We are talking about prisoner abuse.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · January 28, 2005, 6:50 pm

Lalanae wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Lalanae wrote:
Fash wrote:When it's someone who would be firing automatic weapons and rockets at you if he wasn't in custody.... do whatever it takes to get the information out of them... i do not care.
You cannot prove that all of them would be. Many of the people held there are held on scanty evidence if any at all. Some are in there unjustly. In the US, police have to have reasonable evidence to arrest and hold you, no matter what you did. This isnt the case there.

But I guess torturing innocent people doesn't bother you as long as it satisfies your blood lust, sick fuck.
Wake up call!!! The war in Iraq, isn't the US. The prisoners aren't American citizens who normally obey the law and live under the laws of a free country where they are innocent till proven guilty. It's a war! Hello? Any of this sinking in?
So we have the right to rape and torture any Iraqi citizen whenever we see fit just because they don't live in the US? You don;t give a shit about innocent people unless they are US citizens? Where is all your "OMG WE R SO GRATE! SPREDING DEMOCRASY 4 TEH PORE PEEPLES OF TEH WURLD!!" Some of those detainees have done nothing.

Those are your words not mine. I said nothing like that.

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » January 28, 2005, 6:52 pm

This all just goes to show that some conservatives do not truly believe in democracy for the rest of the world.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · January 28, 2005, 6:54 pm

Lalanae wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Fash wrote: i dont think anyone here has any evidence that 'treating them fairly' works.
Where were you Fash? During the Clinton admin we treated them fairly by ignoring them after they attacked our embassy's and the USS Cole and that did work. Not sure what you are talking about, lol. It's not like they then attacked us and kill 3000 americans in a terrorist attack using planes or anything. Treating them fairly does work.

They are after all very reasonable people who just want world peace and a chance for all people to have a fair and equal chance to make it in this world. You saw the beheading videos right? Don't they seem like reasonable poeple to you? When the US captures people in Iraq it is their duty to quickly determine through mind reading which ones would do those reasoable things and which would not. Damn, Fash what a blood lusting fuck you are!
apples to oranges dumb ass.

We are talking about prisoner abuse.

Uh huh. And I am talking about the reasonability of those said poeple

mmkay? Is this Lohrno? Do you have two user names?

Midnyte_Ragebringer · January 28, 2005, 6:54 pm

Lalanae wrote:This all just goes to show that some conservatives do not truly believe in democracy for the rest of the world.

Another past buyer of the jump to conclusions mat.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » January 28, 2005, 6:59 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote: Another past buyer of the jump to conclusions mat.

Well lets look at what you said, and you can explain yourself as to what different conclusions we are supposed to make.

You said that this is a war. You said that it is okay to torture people to get information out of them. Torture is not the American way, and undemocratic. Torturing people will not get people to want to adopt democracy. How does this show that you care about bringing democracy to other countries, when we don't even practice demonstrate our best principles to others?

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » January 28, 2005, 7:00 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote: Uh huh. And I am talking about the reasonability of those said poeple mmkay? Is this Lohrno? Do you have two user names?

We're discussing our actions not theirs...Just because the Nazis used concentration camps, doesn't mean we should have done the same to them...

masteen · Post by **masteen** » January 28, 2005, 7:03 pm

Man, some of us have to PAY to be interrogated by a woman in a mini skirt and thong, and those fucking terrorists get it for FREE? WTF?!?

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » January 28, 2005, 7:04 pm

As usual, you are making no sense. You can't compare Clinton's policies to this issue of prisoner abuse. Especially when you yourself said "It's a war! Hello?" and we weren't in a war then. You need to pick your angle and stay with it. Maybe people wouldn't laught at you so much if you didnt contradict yourself all the time.

Now please explain to me how you see that the decidedly un-democratic justice system we have implemented in Iraq, Cuba, or elsewhere DOESN'T contradict the banner message of the Bush administration that we are "spreading democracy" and giving the Iraqi people "democracy?" "Removing an unjust tyrant" only to imprison people on little or no evidence and then torture said people?

It just makes us look like we act democratic when it is convenient.

noel · Post by **noel** » January 28, 2005, 7:11 pm

As usual, I am 100% in agreement with Voronwë.

Quoted for emphasis:

Voronwë wrote:my concern is that the dispersal of this information (true, false, or otherwise) on the internet and sattellite TV throughout the Middle East and Asia does so much more harm to United States' interests than it returns in actionable intelligence.

Beyond the fact that it is morally incongruous with the stated goals of our military mission as well as legally inconsistent with our Constitution as well as international treaties of which we are signitories, i seriously doubt that the net benefit to our military objectives are being met.

We have absolutely crushed any credibility to the fact that the United States is a country that upholds the ideals that it claims to, which does potentially harm our relationships down the road with our historic allies.

We have seriously and repeatedly damaged our credibility over the past 3 years, and it has weakened our ability to get financial and military assitance where it would alleviate the sacrifices we make.

I would certainly trade any sense of satisfaction I got at some insignificant Afghani being humiliated to turn over information that Bin Laden was in Pakistan 2 years ago (which i could have told you from watching TV), if it meant that one family didn't have to bury their child at 20.

Perhaps that is a sensationalistic dichotomy, but I think the ultimate lack of return on investment has life and death consequences.

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » January 28, 2005, 7:13 pm

noel wrote:As usual, I am 100% in agreement with Voronwë.

Quoted for emphasis:
Voronwë wrote:my concern is that the dispersal of this information (true, false, or otherwise) on the internet and sattellite TV throughout the Middle East and Asia does so much more harm to United States' interests than it returns in actionable intelligence.

Beyond the fact that it is morally incongruous with the stated goals of our military mission as well as legally inconsistent with our Constitution as well as international treaties of which we are signitories, i seriously doubt that the net benefit to our military objectives are being met.

We have absolutely crushed any credibility to the fact that the United States is a country that upholds the ideals that it claims to, which does potentially harm our relationships down the road with our historic allies.

We have seriously and repeatedly damaged our credibility over the past 3 years, and it has weakened our ability to get financial and military assitance where it would alleviate the sacrifices we make.

I would certainly trade any sense of satisfaction I got at some insignificant Afghani being humiliated to turn over information that Bin Laden was in Pakistan 2 years ago (which i could have told you from watching TV), if it meant that one family didn't have to bury their child at 20.

Perhaps that is a sensationalistic dichotomy, but I think the ultimate lack of return on investment has life and death consequences.

Vor should be President.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » January 28, 2005, 7:30 pm

Voronwë wrote:Perhaps that is a sensationalistic dichotomy, but I think the ultimate lack of return on investment has life and death consequences.

On a serious note, low ROI should concern every conservative here. I'm all for putting electrodes to the testicles of Osama and the other ringleaders, but torturing every dirt-farmer-turned-Afghani-rebel is fucking stupid, even if Osama did touch them on the shoulder once.

Brotha · Post by **Brotha** » January 28, 2005, 7:40 pm

So is anyone here willing to call anything that was in that article "torture?" Just wondering.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » January 28, 2005, 7:50 pm

Torture

Here let me give you a quick definition: The act of harming someone physically or psycholoigcally in order to get a desired behavior from that person.

I would say everything is and it's religious torture which is actually worse than just killing them.

How would you like it if they took you over there, drugged you and forced you to buttfuck some guy? (I'm assuming you are a Christian who believes that homosexuality is wrong. If not, please tell me your religion so I can properly make a proper paralell you can understand.)

In case you didn't read, that one girl took red ink and created fake menstrual blood which she smeared all over one captive's face and denied them water to clean it off. It is not permitted for men to be around women who are menstruating as it is very unclean, and is actually a 'sin'.

noel · Post by **noel** » January 28, 2005, 7:56 pm

He's a Christian, but he'd probably like that.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » January 28, 2005, 7:59 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Yep. There in lies the problem. They shouldn't have heard of this or any torture done to the prisoners. The media is to blame. Things done in war should not be made public to the masses. I don't condone what some of the people did at Abu Grahib(sp?), when they were doing it for fun. I do condone whatever means necessary when done in an organized fashion to gain military information. I would think most sensible people would agree that torture for fun is wrong no matter what religion, nationality, etc.

Brotha · Post by **Brotha** » January 28, 2005, 8:05 pm

I know what torture means, and if we're going by the strict, technical definition of it, just about any interrogation technique could be construed as torture. But I tend to think of torture as something a little worse than parading a scantily clad woman around someone who's used to women being subservient and beaten into submission. I would have thought liberals would be overjoyed at the irony of this.

No, I'm not a Christian, I'm an atheist (as I've said several times on this board), and I don't think homosexuality is a sin.

You can't really compare a woman putting fake blood on a detainee with forcing one to have anal sex.

The fact is we're at war. I don't condone torture, but I don't see anything in this particular case as being some kind of grave violation of human rights.

Edit: Love the stereotyping of me.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » January 28, 2005, 8:12 pm

Well, your being an Atheist means you probably have no perspective and cannot imagine and understand what these people go through. They were crying like babies according to the article. You would have to imagine having the conviction that you will spend eternity being tortured like so because of what others are forcing on you now. It is way worse than being killed. I also cannot fathom what experiencing it would be like as I am agnostic, but I can kind of get an inkling of understanding through what others say. It is worse than being killed.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » January 28, 2005, 8:15 pm

Brotha wrote: Edit: Love the stereotyping of me.

I apologize. Your stances on just about everything else lead me to that conclusion though...There wasn't one thing besides that that separates your views that I've seen from that of any other southern Republican Christian neocon. I was trying to paint a good analogy for you but since you're atheist it's unlikely you'll be able to empathize...

Brotha · Post by **Brotha** » January 28, 2005, 8:18 pm

No worries =)

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » January 28, 2005, 9:00 pm

Fash wrote:When it's someone who would be firing automatic weapons and rockets at you if he wasn't in custody.... do whatever it takes to get the information out of them... i do not care.

So they can do whatever they want to American POWs as well then? Without you screaming like a little girl?

Sorry, you have no moral high ground here. You are scum, you try to impose your "I am better than you" idea on others while treating them just as bad as you accuse them of treating people. You are two of a kind.

Not to mention that you are losing any credibility you might have had and any chance at ever being a peacemaker.

Yep. There in lies the problem. They shouldn't have heard of this or any torture done to the prisoners. The media is to blame. Things done in war should not be made public to the masses.

Shocker, Midnyte blames the media. Get some new material already, even Rummy renews himself every now and then.

it's not blood lust... i don't take any pleasure in it at all... and if they're innocent it's a shame.. but the ends justify the means.

Think I heard bin Laden say that once

VeeshanVault

Sex tactics at Guantanamo bay

Sex tactics at Guantanamo bay

Re: Sex tactics at Guantanamo bay