WoW Rogues

Nneena · Post by **Nneena** » January 12, 2005, 12:08 pm

Do any of you play rogues and if so, how would you compare them to EQ rogues. I am considering picking up this game, just want some feedback on the class.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » January 12, 2005, 12:17 pm

FAR better than EQ rogues.

'nuff said.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » January 12, 2005, 12:26 pm

Stupid people who were expecting the "Get behind mob, backstab, evade, repeat ad nauseum" gameplay are having trouble playing rogues in WOW. You have to pay attention and work your combos and finishing moves to your advantage.

noel · Post by **noel** » January 12, 2005, 12:27 pm

Rogues in WoW are far more deadly (i.e. you don't require someone tanking to be effective), and have far more options than EQ rogues. The rogue class has stealth, which will slightly lower your movement speed depending on the level of stealth. The rogue class has backstab which does a rather large amount of damage... not sure the percentage. The rogue class has a group of powerup moves. You engage the mob, and use the powerup moves to attack it. For each one that lands, a marker appears next to the mob's portrait on your UI. At any time you'd like, you can use what's called a 'finishing move'. The number of powerup moves you've used (max. 5 I think) will determine the strength of the finishing move.

Additionally, rogues have poisoning, but I have no idea how it's implemented.

Rogues in WoW are the DPS kings.

Hope that was more helpful than, 'They own!' *moon's Dregor* I think Dregor actually plays one, so he can correct/fill in any areas where my description is lacking.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » January 12, 2005, 12:33 pm

I'm used to playing a warrior, bard, enchanter, paladin... can't remember another game I've played a rogue in...

but definately enjoying my WoW rogue, lvl 15 and very strong... was able to solo a lvl 17 at lvl 14... i put my first 5 talent points into Master of Deception, and the next group of 5 goes into increasing critical strike.

one big difference is throwing weapons are quite decent in WoW, I was fighting some casters, dalaran mage & apprentices, and able to do more damage to them over 30 yards than they were nukin me. eventually they come closer, only to get stunned, stabbed in the back, and die.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » January 12, 2005, 1:21 pm

I play a shaman, and no, it wasn't more helpful. You're a maroon!

archeiron · Post by **archeiron** » January 12, 2005, 1:55 pm

Fash wrote:I'm used to playing a warrior, bard, enchanter, paladin... can't remember another game I've played a rogue in...

but definately enjoying my WoW rogue, lvl 15 and very strong... was able to solo a lvl 17 at lvl 14... i put my first 5 talent points into Master of Deception, and the next group of 5 goes into increasing critical strike.

one big difference is throwing weapons are quite decent in eq2, I was fighting some casters, dalaran mage & apprentices, and able to do more damage to them over 30 yards than they were nukin me. eventually they come closer, only to get stunned, stabbed in the back, and die.

Ugh, you just used EQ2 in place of WoW by mistake (unless they have Dalaran mages in EQ2

). I feel dirty!

Fash · Post by **Fash** » January 12, 2005, 2:19 pm

teh oops!!1

Legenae · Post by **Legenae** » January 12, 2005, 3:55 pm

NneenaFS wrote:Do any of you play rogues and if so, how would you compare them to EQ rogues. I am considering picking up this game, just want some feedback on the class.

Brent loves playing his rogue.

Glad to see you are thinking about playing! We are on Hyjal - the Horde side.

Nneena · Post by **Nneena** » January 12, 2005, 4:17 pm

All of you people that I have played eq with in the past suck. You are scattered through so many servers. You all should have organized better!

Tenuvil · Post by **Tenuvil** » January 12, 2005, 5:26 pm

The WoW side is a LOT more cohesive than EQ2. Better two or three different WoW servers than the at least nine different servers ex Veeshanites are on in EQ2.

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » January 12, 2005, 6:21 pm

I LOVE my rogue, love her, love her love her!

Some of the best parts:

Poison: When I first applied a poison to both of my weapons and killed a mob, I was like HOLY SHIT! The damage poisons increase your dps so much, mobs die noticeably faster. You have a couple choices on poisons, a direct damage poison, a DoT poison, a poison that slows the target (I think just movement, but maybe it's damage as well?? not sure), and a poison that increases the casting time of the mob. There is another one that as I recall is pretty useless when you have the others to choose from, and since I ignore it, I've forgotten what it does. You can mix and match which poisons you use since you can apply them on both weapons. ITS A MILLION TIMES BETTER THAN THE EQ POTION SYSTEM. Its also pretty affordable and it appears all the components are store bought (no camping components). Poisons are hella fun and very useful...

Lockpick: VERY useful in WoW. Everytime I'm in Org, someone is looking for a someone to unlock a chest. You can make some cash off of it. Also, occaisonally you'll come across chests that are locked, so you have a loot advantage. There is a rogue quest that gives you the opportunity to level your skill up to about 100 and beyond that, you're best bet is to level off pickpocketing junkboxes (see below) to unlock and unlocking other peoples boxes. NOTE that you will NOT level in lockpick if the box is still in the trade window. You must have it in your inventory to get a skill increase.

Pickpocket: Don't ever kill a pickpocketable mob without pickpocketing! The loot from pickpocket comes from a different table than normal loot, so you are getting two chance at loot from each pickpocketable mob. You will always get cash, sometimes junkboxes, healing potions, food items (junk), oddities that you will never see when you (suck as pocket watches, lucky charms, empty flasks, and other cute/funny items), occaisonal gems. You won't get weapons or armor from what I've seen so far, but maybe at higher levels when you get higher level junkboxes? Either way, the cash adds up, I always have plenty of healing potions, and the junkboxes help you level your lockpick.

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » January 12, 2005, 6:34 pm

Rogues are a great class in WoW...like most the others too.

I'm a dps machine in groups, yet I can solo easily mobs the same level or above slightly with very little, if at all, downtime.

In groups, you can shrug off agro with skills, you can dot, you can just do straight damage, you can lower AC on mobs, you can interrupt casters, you can stun...rogues are ausome.

Sabek · Post by **Sabek** » January 13, 2005, 12:51 am

NneenaFS wrote:All of you people that I have played eq with in the past suck. You are scattered through so many servers. You all should have organized better!

Whisperwind kthx

Fash · Post by **Fash** » January 31, 2005, 3:30 pm

Another question for rogues... where are you specing your talents?

After looking at them all and considering my playstyle, I've got everything in Subtlety....

Master of Deception - 5/5
Opportunity - 5/5
Ghostly Strike - 1/1
Initiative - 2/5

planning to take initiative to 3/5, drop 1 in Improved Ambush
then grab 3 improved vanish...

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » January 31, 2005, 3:47 pm

I find subtlty pointless except for Master of Deception. Everyone should max that out. It makes a HUGE difference.

In Combat the Improved Sinister Strinke is a must too.

I'm going the primarily Assassination route. Vigor (increased energy by 10) is a huge goal. Skipping the Improved Slice and Dice and Exposed armor since I dont use them that much as finishing moves.

I'm more of a swords rogue than a dagger rogue it seems so I'm skipping the dagger only improvements to hedge my bets. I do know that I will probably reset my points at lvl 60 just in case I misjudged a few talents.

Love this http://wowvault.ign.com/View.php?view=T ... elect_id=7

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » January 31, 2005, 3:53 pm

The talent calculator is great, been fidling with it off and on all morning trying to figure out wtf to do with my druid!

Sylvos · Post by **Sylvos** » January 31, 2005, 3:55 pm

no shit dregor, druid talents are a bitch.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » January 31, 2005, 4:01 pm

a rogue without a dagger?... do what ya like with the offhand, but we have abilities that require a dagger for a reason..

for a time the best weapon i had was a sword, so i swapped in a dagger to start the fight and switched back to a sword..

but subtlety is far from pointless..

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » January 31, 2005, 4:05 pm

You don't have to use those abilities. Rogues have enough variety in their skills that there are completely different kind of rogues out there. In terms of pure damage output I'd say a non-dagger rogue can probably pull ahead, what with the higher damage weapons out there. Throw in some sinister strike and eviscerate specializing, combined with abilities like cheap shot and kidney punch... dagger what?

I'm considering on my rogue twink to go the mace spec route and working on as much stunning as I can. Diminishing returns on stun in pvp I know, but most people don't last terribly long vs a rogue anyways.

Hate the rogues.. *shakes fist at nothing*

Kargyle · Post by **Kargyle** » January 31, 2005, 4:09 pm

The only dagger skills are backstab and ambush. I much prefer a sword for my main hand for bigger sinister strikes. Maces with Mace specialization are nice to for the chance to stun. The great thing about rogues is there is no one "correct" setup. It is all about play style.

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » January 31, 2005, 5:03 pm

I'll hold whatever weapon has the highest dps in my main, sword or dagger, but most of the time its a sword. I prefer Cheap Shot over Ambush anyway.

The extra damage you deal with Backstab doesn't add up enough to make up for a lower dps dagger in many cases. Plus sinister strikes use less energy which means quicker/more combo points. I switch my style according to what I hold in my main.

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » January 31, 2005, 5:04 pm

I need to get me a mace to play with.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » January 31, 2005, 5:22 pm

I agree on the mace. I have not found one yet that is suitable for replacing the dagger. As far as respecing, I have found Ambush useless for the most part and prefer cheap shot. My points are mainly in Assassination, but I wasted some in other areas. However, I am only 42 atm, so have some time to mess around.

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » January 31, 2005, 5:41 pm

blah actually I dont have the points to spare for Mace Specialization, so nm!

Drolgin Steingrinder · January 31, 2005, 5:57 pm

Once you hit 60 and start getting teh uber gear stuff, it'll be worth it to respec your talents to fit the weapons you have. Two highend maces with mace specialization 5 and you'll have stun city. Two swords with sword spec 5 - flurry city. Dagger spec - 23%+ crit rate...etc etc etc.

Just don't make the mistake of redoing your talents and clicking the wrong buttons...like I did

Mawafu · Post by **Mawafu** » January 31, 2005, 6:21 pm

Drolgin Steingrinder wrote:Two highend maces with mace specialization 5 and you'll have stun city. Two swords with sword spec 5 - flurry city. Dagger spec - 23%+ crit rate...etc etc etc.

The problem with mace spec is the stun has diminishing returns if you stun the same target more than once. The first stun lasts for 3 seconds, 2nd stun would be 1.5 (however they round it) and the 3rd stun does not affect the mob. As for sword spec it appears to be bugged. I had it for a while but the only times I ever saw it go off was when I killed a mob, and then it only lasted for a few seconds (not long enough to get to the next mob).

Personally I use the following build:
Assassination Talents (30 points)

# Improved Eviscerate - 3/3 points
Increases the damage done by your Eviscerate ability by 15%.

# Malice - 5/5 points
Increases your critical strike chance by 5%.

# Ruthlessness - 3/3 points
Gives your finishing moves a 60% chance to add a combo point to your target.

# Murder - 1/2 point
Increases your chance to hit while using your Sap, Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot abilities by 3%.

# Improved Slice and Dice - 3/3 points
Increases the duration of your Slice and Dice ability by 45%.

# Relentless Strikes - 1/1 point
Your finishing moves have a 20% chance per combo point to restore 25 energy.

# Lethality - 5/5 points
Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Sinister Strike, Gouge, Backstab, Ambush, Ghostly Strike, or Hemorrhage ability by 30%.

# Improved Kidney Shot - 3/3 points
Reduces the cooldown of your Kidney Shot ability by 5 seconds.

# Cold Blood - 1/1 point
When activated, increases the critical strike chance of your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, or Eviscerate by 100%.

# Seal Fate - 5/5 points
Your critical strikes from abilities that add combo points have a 100% chance to add an additional combo point.

Combat Talents (21 points)

# Improved Sinister Strike - 2/2 points
Reduces the Energy cost of your Sinister Strike ability by 5 Energy.

# Lightning Reflexes - 5/5 points
Increases your Dodge chance by 5%.

# Precision - 5/5 points
Increases your chance to hit with melee weapons by 5%.

# Deflection - 1/5 point
Increases your Parry chance by 1%.

# Improved Evasion - 2/2 points
Increases the effect duration of your Evasion ability by 4 seconds.

# Dual Wield Specialization - 5/5 points
Increases the damage done by your offhand weapon by 50%.

# Blade Flurry - 1/1 point
Increases your attack speed by 20%. In addition, attacks strike an additional nearby opponent. Lasts 15 seconds.

Subtlety Talents (0 points)

# None

I open up with CS then hit slice n dice, 15 seconds of 30% haste, long enough to last till the mob is dead. I also got improved KS which a lot call pointless since it has diminishing returns like mace spec if used on the same mob...but as a rogue soloing or in a group/raid, mobs die so fast it's nice to have it up more often to use on more mobs.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » January 31, 2005, 7:48 pm

I've got a gimp rogue I've been playing some and I sware they kill MOBs, at least early on in half the time it takes any other class. He is only level 11 or 12 right now but can easly take on 2 or 3 at a time or do MOBs 2 to 3 levels higher with ease. No sword yet just using daggers Marb found off kills and I sent to other gimps... so far though it's very compariable in fun to the Shaman due to the interaction.

As I look back on it, playing a warrior and a paladin to a decent level in EQ... those classses were boring as hell compared to anything I've played so far in WoW.

It also seems, IMHO, that the Rogue in WoW mirrors the Assassin in Diablo II more than it does a rogue in other MMORPGs... I'm wondering if some of the "fist weapons" will be claws or punching daggers... but as I haven't checked to see if rogues can even use fist weapons that may be a moot point.

Marb

Drolgin Steingrinder · January 31, 2005, 9:21 pm

The Stun 'fix' is an issue, but it mainly becomes an issue if you like opening with Cheap Shot. Also, someone told me they're changing it to only work like that in PvP - I don't have a source for it though.

But still, the potential damage output from dual maces combined with the stun functionality makes it a very viable build, regardless of stun limitations.

I wasn't aware of the sword thing, that sucks. Hopefully they'll fix it along with some of the other rogue issues. Sadly, fixing that will probably mean they'll fix the beneficial Seal Fate bug...I love my 3 combo points from crits.

Drolgin Steingrinder · January 31, 2005, 9:30 pm

Yeah Marb, the fist weapons are claws, mostly (the ones I've seen, anyway). Thankfully they aren't common, or we'd have a shitload of Wolverine wannabees running around...

Fash · Post by **Fash** » February 1, 2005, 2:25 pm

It's a hell of a lot of fun as a level 22 rogue to be able to beat the snot out of level 25 and 26 shit.

bloodfury harpies

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » February 1, 2005, 3:01 pm

In the Art of WoW book they have some seriously badass looking orcish fist weapons. They need to add those puppies to the game if they aren't already.

cadalano · Post by **cadalano** » February 6, 2005, 3:44 am

i just picked up the stanceset macro and it rocks. It almost eliminates the whole main hand conundrum and gives you the situational best of both

Fash · Post by **Fash** » February 11, 2005, 1:32 pm

oh well.. my fascination with the subtlety tree is over...

respecced combat with only master of deception in subtlety.

Sartori · Post by **Sartori** » February 11, 2005, 7:58 pm

Preparation has saved my ass so many times, and Improved Sap is great shit. Much

for Subtlety

Sartori
GM of Mortal Sin
Gorgonnash

VeeshanVault

WoW Rogues

WoW Rogues

Re: WoW Rogues

Subtlety tree