China Detains 3 Who Criticized Government

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China Detains 3 Who Criticized Government

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/14/inter ... &position=

December 14, 2004
China Detains 3 Who Criticized Government
By JOSEPH KAHN

EIJING, Tuesday, Dec. 14 - The Chinese police on Monday afternoon detained three leading intellectuals who have been critical of the government, apparently stepping up a campaign to silence public dissent.

Yu Jie and Liu Xiaobo, literary figures, and Zhang Zuhua, a political theorist, were detained in raids at their homes, relatives and friends said. Mr. Yu's relatives were handed a warrant that said he was suspected of "participating in activities harmful to the state," said his wife, Liu Min.

Friends said Mr. Yu and Mr. Zhang were released Tuesday morning after police confiscated materials and searched their computers. The status of Mr. Liu remains uncertain, and it is not clear whether any of the three will face charges.

The detentions were the latest in a string of arrests and official harassment of journalists, writers and scholars who have spoken out against government policies or written articles or essays that officials have deemed damaging.

Since President Hu Jintao replaced Jiang Zemin as China's military chief in September, leaving Mr. Hu in full command of China's government, ruling party and army, analysts say the political environment has become more repressive. The scope for discussing sensitive topics in the state-run media has decreased, they said, while the authorities appear intent on punishing people who violate unwritten rules about the limits on free speech.

The crackdown could signal an effort by Mr. Hu to dispel hopes - already greatly diminished - that he would usher in a period of relative political relaxation when he consolidated power. Instead, there are signs that he is seeking to manage state affairs in a more hands-on and less permissive style than that associated with Mr. Jiang, who in his later years focused on carrying out broad economic changes while allowing a degree of media openness.

Political analysts said Mr. Hu had made clear that he intended to restore discipline to China's increasingly diverse news media while at least temporarily restricting space for leading intellectuals to voice freely their views about politics, economics and media management.

Editors say the Propaganda Department has received a fresh mandate to micromanage daily news coverage and to ban coverage of an increasingly long list of sensitive issues, including broad topics like China's growing social inequality.

Mr. Yu and Mr. Liu have been outspoken critics for many years. Mr. Liu was accused of serving as an organizer of the Chinese democracy movement in 1989, which ended in the violent crackdown on dissent in June of that year. He spent several years in prison in the 1990's.

Three years ago, the two founded a Chinese chapter of the PEN organization, which defended writers, poets and journalists persecuted by the government. The men wrote a series of articles this fall supporting Shi Tao, a poet and journalist based in Hunan. Mr. Shi was arrested recently and accused of leaking state secrets, apparently while working as a reporter in Shanghai.

PEN, which operates without official support, convened an award ceremony in late October to honor Zhang Yihe, the author of a memoir about the repressive "antirightist" political campaign in the late 1950's. The book was banned.

Zhang Zuhua, the political theorist, is an associate of Mr. Yu and Mr. Liu who attended the award ceremony, friends said.

Liu Min, Mr. Yu's wife, said in a brief telephone conversation on Monday evening that her apartment building was surrounded by uniformed policemen. The telephone line to her home was cut in the middle of a conversation with a reporter.

The detentions appear to be part of a pattern.

Jiao Guobiao, a journalism professor at Beijing University who wrote a scathing criticism of the Propaganda Department earlier this year, was stripped of his teaching responsibilities recently. Wang Guangze, an editor at the state-run 21st Century Business Herald, was fired after returning from a speaking engagement in the United States last month. There, he had discussed how the Internet was affecting China's politics.

In September, the authorities arrested Zhao Yan, a local journalist who worked for the New York Times bureau in Beijing, on charges of providing state secrets to foreigners. Some of Mr. Zhao's friends say they believe that State Security officials are seeking to tie Mr. Zhao to an article published in The Times that reported an offer by Mr. Jiang to retire two weeks before the leadership change was announced.

"The steps the authorities have taken are not by coincidence," said an editor at a major state-run newspaper who asked not to be identified. "This is a new era, but right now we're moving backward."


Christopher Buckley contributed reporting for this article.

Gosh. I can't believe no one has posted about this. I mean with all the people on this board who are such self-professed protectors of the peoples against the terrible government structure....I mean wow.

Ohhhh wait. That's right. You are only completely outraged when it is the supposed "evil empire" of America that may have done something that could be viewed as bad. Okay, I get it.
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Post by Animale »

Hadn't read it before this. Crackdown in China is unfortunately nothing new, particularly during shifts in power. I hope that the U.S. government exerts pressure upon the new powers in China to return to the path of more openness. We'll see if that happens (not likely, but maybe)

Oh, and a big fuck you heading your way Mid. Come on.

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Post by Hesten »

Well, China arent exactly huge on human rights, so China detain 3 people who criticize their government arent exactly news, they been doing that for a shitload of years. That of course dont make it any better, but thats why China are not on any human rights control commisions.

Likewise it would not be news if the US allowed 3 people to criticize their government, because thats how the US works, and how they been workin for a while.


Im pretty sure that the second China choose to punish people violating human rights and change their internal policies, it would be news on this board, just as the US been news here for a while for changing their internal and external policies into something that more and more resemble the Chinese policy (ignore the geneva convention, have prisoners of war be captured for years with no trial, torturing and executing prisoners, just to name a few examples).
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Post by Deward »

Hard to criticize another governments control of their media when our government controls ours. At least the Chinese are obviously in control.
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Re: China Detains 3 Who Criticized Government

Post by Lohrno »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote: Gosh. I can't believe no one has posted about this. I mean with all the people on this board who are such self-professed protectors of the peoples against the terrible government structure....I mean wow.

Ohhhh wait. That's right. You are only completely outraged when it is the supposed "evil empire" of America that may have done something that could be viewed as bad. Okay, I get it.
That China does things like this is not news to me. It is terrible, but I don't really care as I don't live in China. =P I do care when things like this (free speech zones, us detaining people who speak out at political rallies) happen to us.

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Post by Sionistic »

Oh cmon mid, you can troll much better than this.
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Post by Rekaar. »

Deward wrote:Hard to criticize another governments control of their media when our government controls ours. At least the Chinese are obviously in control.
There are so many things that make this absurd I have no idea where to begin :(
Time makes more converts than reason. - Thomas Paine
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Post by Jice Virago »

Rekaar, you are a walking monument to the power our leaders have exerted over the sheeplike masses through media control. Your continual bull headed ignorance and parroting of spoonfed Fox News talking points are a constant sad reminder to the rest of us that the days of free speech are now numbered and that the majority simply don't even grasp what they have lost over the last two decades.
War is an option whose time has passed. Peace is the only option for the future. At present we occupy a treacherous no-man's-land between peace and war, a time of growing fear that our military might has expanded beyond our capacity to control it and our political differences widened beyond our ability to bridge them. . . .

Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
--RICHARD M. NIXON, "REAL PEACE" (1983)

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."

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Post by Winnow »

It's only news in China if people are dying by the thousands...and by the hundreds of thousands in african countries.

Our media does suck though. They're a bunch of drama queens constantly thinking they need a scoop to be of significance while the common stories go untold. They'd ignore the main story of thousands of starving being fed to focus on the single person that choked on a chicken bone and died because of it.
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Post by Lynks »

Midnyte, try posting it before you criticize us. Some of us probably never read this before...ass.

As for the story, I never new China implemented the Patriot Act.
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Post by Aruman »

Winnow wrote: Our media does suck though. They're a bunch of drama queens constantly thinking they need a scoop to be of significance while the common stories go untold. They'd ignore the main story of thousands of starving being fed to focus on the single person that choked on a chicken bone and died because of it.
Amen... I hate the media...
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Post by Soreali »

Deward wrote:Hard to criticize another governments control of their media when our government controls ours. At least the Chinese are obviously in control.

Show me one fucking way the government controls our media. We let fucking reporters like Geraldo Rivera riding with our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq pretty much giving away our fucking position..You call that controlling our media?
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Post by Kelshara »

Actually I'd dare say the embedded journalists are a way to control the media. Bad example. I don't believe the media is controlled to the extremes though, just thought you used a bad example.
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Post by Chmee »

The U.S. has a huge, varied, media that is distributed in a multitude of ways with virtually every viewpoint under the sun expressed. The charge that the government "controls" it, is pretty ludicrous.
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Post by Soreali »

Kelshara wrote:Actually I'd dare say the embedded journalists are a way to control the media. Bad example. I don't believe the media is controlled to the extremes though, just thought you used a bad example.

Find me a better one Kel. I have no problem taking that out if you can give me a better example.. Was kind of the first thing that popped into my head.
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Post by Nick »

Jice is right....oddly enough!
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Post by Rekaar. »

Jice Virago wrote:Rekaar, you are a walking monument to the power our leaders have exerted over the sheeplike masses through media control. Your continual bull headed ignorance and parroting of spoonfed Fox News talking points are a constant sad reminder to the rest of us that the days of free speech are now numbered and that the majority simply don't even grasp what they have lost over the last two decades.
And your baseless hatred of everyone unlike yourself is tired. Do you have nothing to add to the world? Well why would you, you see no value in adding to the world since we're all just meat with short lifespans.
Time makes more converts than reason. - Thomas Paine
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Post by Toshira »

We'd better invade.
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Post by Winnow »

Toshira wrote:We'd better invade.
Send in the liberal protesters...full attack!
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Post by Cartalas »

Rekaar. wrote:
Jice Virago wrote:Rekaar, you are a walking monument to the power our leaders have exerted over the sheeplike masses through media control. Your continual bull headed ignorance and parroting of spoonfed Fox News talking points are a constant sad reminder to the rest of us that the days of free speech are now numbered and that the majority simply don't even grasp what they have lost over the last two decades.
And your baseless hatred of everyone unlike yourself is tired. Do you have nothing to add to the world? Well why would you, you see no value in adding to the world since we're all just meat with short lifespans.
Go easy on him Rekaar ,You need to look at the reason he is so angry! He lost the fight to have some great man on man anal loving under the protection of marriage, Well that and his guild could never get past Kunark dragons.
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Post by Toshira »

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Post by Winnow »

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Post by Jice Virago »

Cartalas wrote:Go easy on him Rekaar ,You need to look at the reason he is so angry! He lost the fight to have some great man on man anal loving under the protection of marriage, Well that and his guild could never get past Kunark dragons.
Cart, one of us here has a girlfriend and I am sure the callouses on you palms can clue you in as to who that might be. And no, doing a Cartman style Jlo with your hand does not count as having a girlfriend. Neither do your relatives. Or livestock. Even if I loved the cock and took it up the ass from a rhinocerous daily, while Jerry Falwell and Jesus took turns cheering me on, my life would be more fulfilling that yours.

Don't mistake annoyance with someone's willful ignorance with anger. Remember those tirades your "special friend" Blanky had whenever our alts would walk by your monument to attrition and failure (aka Blood of the Soul) if you want a real example of anger. Do honestly think anyone here even cares about that shit anymore or are you still angry over dying to that giant fire elementa?
War is an option whose time has passed. Peace is the only option for the future. At present we occupy a treacherous no-man's-land between peace and war, a time of growing fear that our military might has expanded beyond our capacity to control it and our political differences widened beyond our ability to bridge them. . . .

Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
--RICHARD M. NIXON, "REAL PEACE" (1983)

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."

Dwight Eisenhower
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Post by Voronwë »

Toshira wrote:Image
that the WalMart company picnic?
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Post by Cartalas »

Jice Virago wrote:
Cartalas wrote:Go easy on him Rekaar ,You need to look at the reason he is so angry! He lost the fight to have some great man on man anal loving under the protection of marriage, Well that and his guild could never get past Kunark dragons.
Cart, one of us here has a girlfriend and I am sure the callouses on you palms can clue you in as to who that might be. And no, doing a Cartman style Jlo with your hand does not count as having a girlfriend. Neither do your relatives. Or livestock. Even if I loved the cock and took it up the ass from a rhinocerous daily, while Jerry Falwell and Jesus took turns cheering me on, my life would be more fulfilling that yours.

Don't mistake annoyance with someone's willful ignorance with anger. Remember those tirades your "special friend" Blanky had whenever our alts would walk by your monument to attrition and failure (aka Blood of the Soul) if you want a real example of anger. Do honestly think anyone here even cares about that shit anymore or are you still angry over dying to that giant fire elementa?
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Post by Rivera Bladestrike »

Not to be off topic, but I was in Blood of the Soul, yeah Blanky was a moron so I had to frickin act as the middle man and run shit while Blanky was off in another world... But I don't remember losing to Ixiblat...
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Post by Xzion »

Voronwë wrote:
Toshira wrote:Image
that the WalMart company picnic?
lmao
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Post by Cartalas »

Rivera Bladestrike wrote:Not to be off topic, but I was in Blood of the Soul, yeah Blanky was a moron so I had to frickin act as the middle man and run shit while Blanky was off in another world... But I don't remember losing to Ixiblat...

We didnt Rivera its Jice's personal slam on me.
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Post by Jice Virago »

Is it the ADD that keeps you from being focused enough to make more than a sort sentance for a reply?

edit: Rivera, I was refering to the awesome display of intellect that was Cartalas bitching for 8 pages about FOH spawning Ixtblat and killing him while he was in whatever zone that was.
War is an option whose time has passed. Peace is the only option for the future. At present we occupy a treacherous no-man's-land between peace and war, a time of growing fear that our military might has expanded beyond our capacity to control it and our political differences widened beyond our ability to bridge them. . . .

Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
--RICHARD M. NIXON, "REAL PEACE" (1983)

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."

Dwight Eisenhower
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Jice Virago wrote:Is it the ADD that keeps you from being focused enough to make more than a sort sentance for a reply?

edit: Rivera, I was refering to the awesome display of intellect that was Cartalas bitching for 8 pages about FOH spawning Ixtblat and killing him while he was in whatever zone that was.
Skyfire?


edit: err wait ixblat was the frog right? He was in Swamp of no Hope me thinks.
Last edited by Midnyte_Ragebringer on December 16, 2004, 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Sueven »

Burning Woods, at the Skyfire zone usually.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Sueven wrote:Burning Woods, at the Skyfire zone usually.
oh boy. I'm rusty on my Kunark infoz.
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Post by Soreali »

Sueven wrote:Burning Woods, at the Skyfire zone usually.

You sure? I thought it was in Burned Woods..
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Post by Cartalas »

Jice Virago wrote:Is it the ADD that keeps you from being focused enough to make more than a sort sentance for a reply?

edit: Rivera, I was refering to the awesome display of intellect that was Cartalas bitching for 8 pages about FOH spawning Ixtblat and killing him while he was in whatever zone that was.

BTw Cartalas did not bitch for 8 pages you mental midgets did. Oh did you leave Wisconsin due to no welfare programs?
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Post by Voronwë »

i <3 ixblat
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Post by Winnow »

Voronwë wrote:i <3 ixblat
That bastard killed me many times!

MALO IN!
...loading, please wait

...not to mention getting whacked by that roaming NPC near Skyfire that always attacked me while I was in DE form.
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Post by Voronwë »

Winnow wrote:
Voronwë wrote:i <3 ixblat
That bastard killed me many times!

MALO IN!
...loading, please wait

...not to mention getting whacked by that roaming NPC near Skyfire that always attacked me while I was in DE form.
he doesnt roam, the guy for the ranger epic? but he is on Feydark's Champions faction, so yeah fuck you and the Indigo Brotherhood!!!
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