Evangelicals to Bush: Payback Time

Thess · Post by **Thess** » November 30, 2004, 4:15 pm

Evangelicals to Bush: Payback Time
Christian Conservatives Say They Gave Bush 'Moral Mandate'; Call Him to Act on Their Behalf
Nov. 29, 2004 - Among some conservative Christians, there is a belief that President Bush received a "moral mandate" to win the recent presidential election -- and they are calling on him to act on their agenda now.

"I believe Our Lord elected our president and I believe he put him in office and it is my prayer that he will sustain him in office," said one woman at the Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Fort Lauderdale, Fla.

Another was asked if she believed that God intervened in the election. "Absolutely," she said.

"Values" voters delivered for the president, and the president must now deliver for them -- especially in the courts, said Gary Cass, head of a grassroots political organization affiliated with Coral Ridge, called the Center for Reclaiming America.

"It's about the next 40 years and how the courts are going to affect the world in which my children and grandchildren are going to be raised in," he said.

Cass wants a U.S. Supreme Court that will outlaw abortion and gay marriage. "Do you want to take your children to a National League baseball game for instance and have homosexuals showing affection to one another? I don't want my kids to see that," he said.

Risking God's Wrath
By one measure, conservative Christians comprised 12 percent of the electorate this year -- the same as four years ago. But they see themselves as a crucial piece of the president's political base.

They believe that if their agenda is not implemented quickly -- if their concerns are not addressed in a timely fashion -- God will be angry.

One leading evangelist recently warned, "God's patience runs out."

Dr. James Kennedy delivers sermons at Coral Ridge which are broadcast to 3 million homes. He said he knows of no timetable for God's wrath, but wants results fast.

He dismissed the concerns of people who worried about the impact of Christian conservatives on the U.S. government.

"Repent," he said with a laugh. "Repent. That's what I'd say."

People who are concerned about the influence of Christianity "have never really surrendered their life to God and submitted themselves to his commandments -- and if they did that they wouldn't have so much concern about some court saying again that it's wrong," he said.

Asked about the millions of Americans who are not Christian, or have a different interpretation of Christianity, Kennedy said with another laugh: "I couldn't care less. It's true."

"I think that the idea that the worst sin that somebody can commit is to offend somebody is ridiculous," he said.

Evangelicals say Kennedy may seem intolerant, but there's no greater love than upholding the will of God.

ABC News' Dan Harris contributed to this report.

Copyright © 2004 ABC News Internet Ventures

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/print?id=280881

I found this interesting, god made it so Bush won - wow. Why didn't the evangelicals stay at home and not vote if regardless Bush would have won.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » November 30, 2004, 4:20 pm

God made em do it! =D

I find it interesting that the margin that Bush won by is considered a 'Mandate.'

-=Lohrno

Thess · Post by **Thess** » November 30, 2004, 4:21 pm

Brotha · Post by **Brotha** » November 30, 2004, 4:23 pm

Lohrno wrote:God made em do it! =D

I find it interesting that the margin that Bush won by is considered a 'Mandate.'

-=Lohrno

He got a majority of the popular vote- something Clinton wasn't able to do in 92 or 96.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » November 30, 2004, 4:24 pm

Brotha wrote: He got a majority of the popular vote- something Clinton wasn't able to do in 92 or 96.

Clinton never claimed he had a 'Mandate.' That's kinda off topic though.

-=Lohrno

Xanastik Fox · Post by **Xanastik Fox** » November 30, 2004, 4:30 pm

Asked about the millions of Americans who are not Christian, or have a different interpretation of Christianity, Kennedy said with another laugh: "I couldn't care less. It's true."

Isn't christianity about acceptance? What a crock of shit.

Christianity is nothing more than an organization to guide the stupid sheep.

BAAAAH. Fuck you.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » November 30, 2004, 4:37 pm

Xanastik Fox wrote: Christianity is nothing more than an organization to guide the stupid sheep.

BAAAAH. Fuck you.

Score = -1 Flamebait

While I might agree with that, I'm not going to say it because it's rude to people who do believe this (even if they do deserve such rudeness

).

-=Lohrno

Trias · Post by **Trias** » November 30, 2004, 4:44 pm

Cass wants a U.S. Supreme Court that will outlaw abortion and gay marriage. "Do you want to take your children to a National League baseball game for instance and have homosexuals showing affection to one another? I don't want my kids to see that," he said.

wtf tee hee

Burke · Post by **Burke** » November 30, 2004, 4:57 pm

Yeah baby all about tolerance.

Except for fags.

And those who don't believe.

We are gonna burn, apparently.

Seebs · Post by **Seebs** » November 30, 2004, 5:14 pm

Fuck these guys. If Bush shows the christain lobbyists his brown eye, where else are they going to go? Hillary?

Kinda like the Sierra Club endorsing Pat Buchanan.

No, They will get what they get and should shut up and pray. Fuckers.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » November 30, 2004, 5:16 pm

Fuck them : ) We'll dupe them again next election!

archeiron · Post by **archeiron** » November 30, 2004, 5:27 pm

Thess wrote:
...They believe that if their agenda is not implemented quickly -- if their concerns are not addressed in a timely fashion -- God will be angry.

One leading evangelist recently warned, "God's patience runs out."...

This is SOOOoooOOOO Old Testament.

Bush would be a religious fashion victim to give in to this!

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » November 30, 2004, 5:31 pm

It truly saddens me that some of the most unChristian people are the most vocal "Christians."

And WTF is that about the not seeing 2 gay people showing affection at a baseball game?!?!?!?! Outlawing Gay marriage isn't going to keep people from being gay OR showing effection... what scares me most is that it's not that these people want their agenda passed they expect us to throw out the Constution as well.

Marb

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » November 30, 2004, 5:53 pm

Nazi fascist christians are his base!

Rekaar. · Post by **Rekaar.** » November 30, 2004, 6:09 pm

It's amazing how much power the teller of the story has. Especially when all you see is text. The article almost makes me embarassed to be associated with people like that.

Then I realize that quotes out of context can say anything the author wants them to.

I don't agree with or support the image conjured by the article either. Who would?

Niffoni · Post by **Niffoni** » November 30, 2004, 6:22 pm

Actual christianity is a noble lifestyle. It's too bad it never took root in America. Sometimes I wonder if Americans realize what a fringe bastardization the type of christianity that gets airplay is.

"Oh yeah, we're good at hating people and telling them they're going to hell and stuff... actually following the tenents of Christianity... well... we kinda suck at that part. So we'll beat up this fag extra hard to make up for it."

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » November 30, 2004, 6:43 pm

Agreed... as a Christian myself it's quite simple to see how the basic principles of Christianity are good, but then people seem to forget you have to follow them to inherit that goodness. I attended church quite reguarly up until mid/late teens, then just got too disgusted at the hypocrisy exhibited on a daily basis by the 'elders' of various churches to continue to attend services.

Perhaps we're just too busy and competative to be compassionate.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » November 30, 2004, 7:02 pm

It's because Christanity has changed. Up until the 60s most Christians were members of one of the standard Protestant denominations. Yes they spoke of strict moral values but not a lot about hate.

As reformed theology took a greater hold many of those denominations starting looking at things differently. They started being more open, more "liberal" and began to push back to the parishnor that he/she could make informed choices through prayer and the reading of God's word.

But lets look at humanity in general, most people either can't or don't want to think for themselves because it puts too much responsibility on them. If they fail, it might just because they made a mistake or misinterpereted the Bible.

Fast forward 30 years and a new group of Christian's have taken the limelight to try and define what Christianity is in America. The Neo-Evangelicles, led by the Televangelists have brought forth a message of hate, revenge and intolerance... but most importantly they have brought back/forth the idea that unless you believe EXACTLY as they do, you are wrong. Many go so far as to believe that if you read any translation of the Bible othen than the King James Version, you are WRONG there too (even though the KJV is by far the most error ridden version).

By doing this they appeal to the general masses... they don't have to think, all they have to do is believe exactly what they are told by a learned teacher then cry and grief when they find out he too is only human and makes mistakes. It's breeding a cycle of dependency that IMHO is the opposite of Christ's true message.

To me, right wing political movemenst are incompatible with the message of Christ, pure and simple. They focus on letting everyone do what they will to survive OR total submission to a state in their extreme. Neither can support Jesus 2nd commandment. So why is it that all the NeoEvangelicles are Republicans? Because they have been duped by their ministers or "learned teachers" into believeing their vast infinite faith can be reduced to one or two issues... even when the most powerful of those issues is becoming MORE prevalent due to the right-wing political agenda... but that's ok because they SAY they are against it. These are the people that use the term "do what I say, not what I do" with their kids, they are the people who show up at city council meeting to keep alcohol from being served in their town because it's EVIL then quickly walk the other way when spotted in the liquor store...

Any religion has to have principles and there has to be a point you say, yes, you HAVE to believe at least these few things to be a Christian. But everything else is truly just symantics or opinion... but I guess you have to think in order ot make a decision like that... oh well.

Marb

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » November 30, 2004, 7:59 pm

"They were advent hopists"
"They what?"
"They interperated everything in the bible literally. And it turns out
that in their particular printing, there was a typo: '...faith,
hop, and charity. And the greatest of these is hop.' So every sunday they
would spend all day hoping around. It was a great mess when it came dinner
time."

Waran · Post by **Waran** » November 30, 2004, 8:07 pm

Zaelath wrote:
"They were advent hopists"
"They what?"
"They interperated everything in the bible literally. And it turns out
that in their particular printing, there was a typo: '...faith,
hop, and charity. And the greatest of these is hop.' So every sunday they
would spend all day hoping around. It was a great mess when it came dinner
time."

Great Red Dwarf quote!

"Step it up to Red Alert!"
"Sir, are you absolutely sure...it does mean changing the bulb...."

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » November 30, 2004, 8:10 pm

Then I realize that quotes out of context can say anything the author wants them to.

Anybody who listened to Bush during the election campaign knows this already

Seebs · Post by **Seebs** » November 30, 2004, 8:35 pm

Marb,

You may be the sole reason that Arkansas is 49th in Education.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » November 30, 2004, 9:11 pm

Possibly so because I haven't spent enough time getting the "truth" out to the masses

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » November 30, 2004, 11:58 pm

Absolute tolerance is evil, because it permits evil.

A loud minority in our culture would have it framed a virtue at the expense of scaring our society.

Why? Because wide open tolerance provides no response to unrestrained acts of selfishness; selfish acts that harm others.

Rekaar. · Post by **Rekaar.** » December 1, 2004, 2:01 am

Niffoni wrote:Actual christianity is a noble lifestyle. It's too bad it never took root in America. Sometimes I wonder if Americans realize what a fringe bastardization the type of christianity that gets airplay is.

"Oh yeah, we're good at hating people and telling them they're going to hell and stuff... actually following the tenents of Christianity... well... we kinda suck at that part. So we'll beat up this fag extra hard to make up for it."

Exactly, the only "newsworthy" information about Christians in this country is the fringe. Too boring to report on the thousands of people every day that donate their lives to acts of goodwill. You'll always see what they want you to see. It's up to you to get out of your box and explore the world you live in so that their perspective isn't the only one you have.

Kaldaur · Post by **Kaldaur** » December 1, 2004, 2:08 am

Absolute tolerance is evil, because it permits evil.

A loud minority in our culture would have it framed a virtue at the expense of scaring our society.

Why? Because wide open tolerance provides no response to unrestrained acts of selfishness; selfish acts that harm others.

What the fuck does that have to do with this? You can't seriously be saying that homosexuals are evil.
Satan is evil, homosexuals are evil, therefore homosexuals are really the devil!

Try again.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » December 1, 2004, 2:14 am

I do agree Adex that there is a point, that is what I ended with but we have taken that point WAY too far, IMHO greed has taken that point way too far.

Kaldaur · Post by **Kaldaur** » December 1, 2004, 3:15 am

Exactly, the only "newsworthy" information about Christians in this country is the fringe. Too boring to report on the thousands of people every day that donate their lives to acts of goodwill. You'll always see what they want you to see. It's up to you to get out of your box and explore the world you live in so that their perspective isn't the only one you have.

Those thousands aren't responsible for domestic policy or fundamental changes in the way we view abortion and civil rights. Newsworthy information about Christians is fringe groups? I agree. Look at our administration.

Rekaar. · Post by **Rekaar.** » December 1, 2004, 3:21 am

I think you're either missing the point or just ignoring it to make your own.

Kaldaur · Post by **Kaldaur** » December 1, 2004, 4:51 am

Not at all Rekaar. I understand the point you're trying to make, that blanket statements against Christians aren't valid, and I totally agree. Myself being a Christian, I back you up 100% on that statement. My point was those thousands of Christians that aren't in the news don't affect world events like Bush does. Bush received a great deal of support from those fringe groups of Christians and those are the same groups clamoring for him to rewrite civil rights and abortion laws. My faith is a private one. I believe in God, I believe that he had a direct hand in this world. I also think that he leaves everything up to us. What would be the point in life if he interfered when he wanted to? That's why stuff like this scares the hell out of me. God chose the election? What the hell is the point of life then? These are the groups that supported Bush, and these are the fringe groups who want to impose their morality on others that are clamoring for Bush to do things their way. Those are the Christians that get the news time, those are the Christians in America that the world sees, and those are the Christians that scare the shit out of many of us on the board.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » December 1, 2004, 7:17 am

Absolute tolerance is evil

Absolute anything is evil. There are no absolutes.

Atokal · Post by **Atokal** » December 1, 2004, 9:33 am

Zaelath wrote:Agreed... as a Christian myself it's quite simple to see how the basic principles of Christianity are good, but then people seem to forget you have to follow them to inherit that goodness. I attended church quite reguarly up until mid/late teens, then just got too disgusted at the hypocrisy exhibited on a daily basis by the 'elders' of various churches to continue to attend services.

Perhaps we're just too busy and competative to be compassionate.

Zaelath just described exactly what is wrong with Christians.

1. People are too self absorbed to be compassionate

2. Most Christians base their faith on man and not the author of life. Example above is Zaelath states that he saw too much hypocracy exhibited by the "elders" of the church. When Jim Baker and Jim Swaggart had their moments of shame many Christians questioned their own faith. But a belief in the diety of Christ and faith in God is what being a Christian should be about. It becomes all too simple to ridicule all Christians because of the actions of a few loud ones. Being a Christian is about having a personal relationship with God and his son Jesus. Not about how others act.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » December 1, 2004, 11:14 am

It bugs me when I hear people touting tolerance as the great virtue of society.

It's just fancy dressing for "Let me do what I want even if it harms others." Where's your tolerance man?

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » December 1, 2004, 11:26 am

I'd also say that people are hypocritical to demand that christians keep their faith separate from their politics. Moral codes are built upon one's faith.

There are passonate environmentalists that vote their moral code publically, the gay rights movement are voting their moral code, pro abortion folk are vocal and voting.

Each of these groups promote agendas that "push their beliefs" on others. To pull christians out of the process and tell them that they alone are bad for voting their moral code is inconsistant, and unfair.

One's action should not be attacking and bashing a group for their beliefs, but rather the battle should be over winning people to your belief system. If the environmentalist is totally convinced in the moral value of strong polution restrictions, then he should be respectfully convincing others to vote his way.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » December 1, 2004, 11:50 am

It is not that reasonable christian people with reasonable beliefs are necessarily chastised for their religious/political linking. It is the more extreme George Bush's of this world that that would apply to.

Real christians in theory would never vote for Bush, or indeed most politicians, so whos a christian really?

Just playing devils face

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » December 1, 2004, 11:54 am

True Adex so lets talk about "moral codes" What are the two commandments Jesus makes in the NT? You should know the answer, 1. Love God with all your Heart 2. Love thy neighbor.

Now take those two and tell me how either one of them can be supported by the political, not moral, aspects of a rightest government. If you truly love everyone then how can one support an agenda that isn't focused on taking care of everyone on this Earth.

If your base idea's do not support your basic beliefs then it truly dosen't matter that "issues" you take a stance on.

Marb

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » December 1, 2004, 12:02 pm

It bugs me when I hear people touting tolerance as the great virtue of society.

It's just fancy dressing for "Let me do what I want even if it harms others."

That's exactly what it isn't. Come on, Adex. You're not usually this lame.

I'd also say that people are hypocritical to demand that christians keep their faith separate from their politics. Moral codes are built upon one's faith

It isn't hypocritical - it's part of your country's political makeup. Church and state explicitly separated. If you want it changed, campaign for the change in whatever bit of paper irks you. In the mean time keep voting for whoever most closely matches your christian values.
It's not even an issue in the UK where the Church of England is the established faith. The nominal head of both political government and the established church are the same: the monarch.
This of course comes with it's downsides c.f historical sectrian difficulties, problems with Ireland when our two countries should be natural allies/friends, harsh treatment of jews etc etc.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » December 1, 2004, 12:05 pm

And in Australia they say the Lord's prayer before every session opens in the government

Of course, that doesn't stop them calling each other scum bags and pedophiles under parlimentary privilidge minutes later

Siji · Post by **Siji** » December 1, 2004, 12:39 pm

Christians and Catholics have done more in the last 5-10 years to push me away from religion than anything else possibly could.

Seebs · Post by **Seebs** » December 1, 2004, 12:51 pm

Siji, Catholics are Christians .. they kinda founded the thing.

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » December 1, 2004, 12:55 pm

They are still 2 different religions. Kinda like a square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not a square.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » December 1, 2004, 1:02 pm

don't forget all squares are rhombuses but not all rhombuses are squares!

Homercles · Post by **Homercles** » December 1, 2004, 1:08 pm

They are still 2 different religions. Kinda like a square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not a square.

This baffles me. So many people have this belief. I truely do not understand it. They are not 2 different religions.

Catholisicm is a denomination of Christianity. Just like Baptists, Protestants, Methodist, and so on.

A different religion would be Buddhism or Hinduism or Islam or Judaism or Taoism

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » December 1, 2004, 1:11 pm

Then since its a denomination, then that would make them different with some core values.

Cheese is a denomination of milk, yet they are not the same.

Seebs · Post by **Seebs** » December 1, 2004, 1:14 pm

I believe you are thinking of Protestants and Catholics .. both of which are Christians ..

Believe me, I have dealt with this difference since I moved to Arkansas. The Baptists mother fuckers down here have done more to ruin my religious psyce than Satan ever could have. And those mother fuckers are Christian.
They'll brick in a double wide down here and start some stricnine drinking cult, jump some pews and speak in tongues all in the name of racism, bigotry and The horrors of the message Footloose sends. These little White Supremecy factories crank out ordained 13-year-old preachers fucking with your pre-pubecent mind filling it with Revalatons, mis information and hate. IOh, and over the summer, they'll try to sell you a dime bag. (sidebar - The same kid that help do all this was homeless living in a box/wood fort in the woods behind BJ's STar Studded Honkey-Tonk at our 20-year reunion. Guess the Baptist fucked him up pretty good as well.)

I hate them and pray that God recognizes thge harm these assholes do and condems them to an eternity of passing hedge hogs out their Urethras while listening to Ashley Simpson.

Not bitter .. no really.

Morgrym · Post by **Morgrym** » December 1, 2004, 1:22 pm

WTF is this shit? Everyone knows the Illuminati put him back in the office

Nick · Post by **Nick** » December 1, 2004, 1:58 pm

They were Scientists, not retarded.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » December 1, 2004, 2:03 pm

vn_Tanc wrote:
It bugs me when I hear people touting tolerance as the great virtue of society.

It's just fancy dressing for "Let me do what I want even if it harms others."
That's exactly what it isn't. Come on, Adex. You're not usually this lame.

How exactly is this lame? I want the right to a partial birth abortion. I don't belive the kid is alive until he is "completely" out of the womb, meanwhile he's a free victim of my convience to suck his brains out with a vacuum. Tolerate my belief or you're a fundamentalist numbnut.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » December 1, 2004, 2:07 pm

It's good to see that Seebs and I still agree on some things

Marb

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » December 1, 2004, 2:10 pm

vn_Tanc wrote:
Quote:
It bugs me when I hear people touting tolerance as the great virtue of society.

It's just fancy dressing for "Let me do what I want even if it harms others."

That's exactly what it isn't. Come on, Adex. You're not usually this lame.

How exactly is this lame? I want the right to a partial birth abortion. I don't belive the kid is alive until he is "completely" out of the womb, meanwhile he's a free victim of my convience to suck his brains out with a vacuum. Tolerate my belief or you're a fundamentalist numbnut.

You're taking one example and stretching it to "absolute tolerance"?
If you want to argue the toss on partial birth abortion then go for it but to cite this one issue as undermining all of civilisation (which you are close to doing) is preposterous.
I just knew you'd launch into an abortion rant if pressed on this though. It's the only instance of tolerance arguably harming others that I can think of. But it's been done to death here lately so let's not go through it all again, eh?
Please, tell me of any other instance in any sphere of existence where "tolerance" has been asked for at the expense of another's suffering.
Bet you can't.

VeeshanVault

Evangelicals to Bush: Payback Time

Evangelicals to Bush: Payback Time

Re: Evangelicals to Bush: Payback Time