The true Thanksgiving story - from the Indian point of view

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The true Thanksgiving story - from the Indian point of view

Post by Tenuvil »

THANKSGIVING FOR INDIANS ?

Romanticized Fables Of Pilgrims And Indians Hide The Truth

The close of the month of November will bring a sigh of relief, a sigh echoed by the burping of countless containers of left-overs in refrigerators across the nation. As a Cherokee organization official, I'm often asked to speak during the period we jokingly call "The Moon of Paper Headdresses", the period from Columbus Day through the last Thursday in November. It's not the effort of speaking that stresses me, it's the pain of biting my tongue.

At this time of year, most Americans briefly remember that others were here before them, even though the declaration of November as American Indian Heritage Month goes largely unnoticed. As with Columbus Day, there is a reason that many Indians don't celebrate Thanksgiving and refuse to be associated with it. Many are surprised to learn it isn't a Native holiday at all. Our closest equivalent would be the Harvest Ceremony a month earlier, during the full moon of October, which for Cherokees is also the New Year. This is a time when we offer thanks to the Creator for our life and the blessings received during the year.

Many have grown up with romanticized fables of the "First Thanksgiving", complete with Pilgrims and Indians. This image comes from the late 19th century. The truth is less attractive.

In 1620, English Pilgrims arrived in Massachusetts. We are told they were searching for religious freedom. The truth is they had all the freedom they could stand in Holland. So did other religious outcasts. What they really wanted was a land they could absolutely rule and control with their own ideas of religion, morality, and law.

When the Mayflower landed at Plymouth, the starving Pilgrims raided Indian storehouses, and even the bags of ceremonial grain buried in Native graves. Aware of their extreme misery, the Wampanoags under Massasoit forgave the capital crime of grave robbing. They taught the English how to farm, how to hunt and harvest the foods of the area, and the following year brought 20 deer to a feast that was supposed to be a treaty.

Within a few years, the English had repaid the hospitality of their Wampanoag hosts by launching hostilities against them, which would culminate in 1676 with the execution and dismemberment of Massasoit's son Metacomet.

Relations with neighboring nations deteriorated as well. In the autumn of 1637, their neighbors the Pequots were gathered for their annual harvest festival near modern Groton. A detachment of English soldiers and Dutch mercenaries surrounded the village, and shot the Indians as they came out of the longhouse. At the end, they sealed exits and burned the village, killing some 700 men, women, and children.

The surviving Pequots were split into three groups: one-third were exiled to the Narragansett territory in Rhode Island (today's Paucatuck Pequots), one-third to the Mohegan territory in Connecticut (today's Mashantucket Pequots), and the remaining were shipped into slavery in the British West Indies colony of Barbados.

The next day, the English governor William Bradford declared "a day of Thanksgiving", thanking God that they had eliminated the Indians, opening Pequot land for white settlement. That proclamation was repeated each year for the next century.

The "freedom-seeking" English settlers, who had once survived by the capital crime of grave-robbing, now made it a capital crime to teach an Indian to read, to live among the Indians, or to speak the word "Pequot" in public.

In 1863, in the midst of the Civil War, a shattered and disillusioned America sought a holiday of reconciliation. It was in this period that the "First Thanksgiving" mythology was born, complete with stoic Pilgrims and friendly, helpful Indians.

I relate the truth not to guilt trip white America or to ruin elementary school pageants, but to remind people that genocide and ethnocide are very real elements of U.S. history. When we see school children dressed as Pilgrims, complete with wide-barreled muskets, we remember all too well at whom the guns were aimed.

When our true history is known, perhaps more Americans will follow their turkey and cranberry sauce with a commitment to redress the outrages of the past by working to improve the living conditions of our people today, to confront the racism and political suppression that still exists at so many levels and to help us in preserving our culture and traditions for the future.

Only then can we can say, "let us give thanks together".
It's interesting that 300 years later the few remaining descendents (at one point the verified tribal members numbered less than sixteen) of the Pequots own and operate the largest casino in the Western Hemisphere, Foxwoods in Ledyard, CT.

In any event not many people know what the English settlers did to the indigenous people of this land in order to survive. Food for thought as we prepare to celebrate Thanksgiving.
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Post by Spang »

it's rumored that the natives cursed the 'settlers' by introducing them to the wonders of tobacco.
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Post by Burke »

The Indians lived all over this land before we came and killed them.
That was very bad of us.
We thought we needed the land,
But for the most part,
We just ruined it anyway,
And now, nobody can use it.
That's the way we are.
We're pigs.

One of my favorite foods to eat is called corn.
The Indians call it "maize."
We call the Indians "Indians."
This is because Columbus thought he was in India
When he first came to this land.
Some people say we should call the Indians, "Native Americans,"
'Cause they were here in America before us,
But before us,
This land wasn't called "America."
It was named "America" by a mapmaker who never even came here.
He just lived in Europe
And made maps and when he found out about this land,
And put his name on it,
'Cause he could.
That's the way we are.
We're pigs.

As I was writing this,
A cockroach fell from the sky and onto the table.
I killed it,
'Cause I did.
That's the way I am.
This doesn't really have very much to do with the Indians, though.
I guess I got kind of sidetracked.
Anyway, I hope you see my point.

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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Yes. We know. The white man did some bad stuff in the beginning with Indians and blacks. You can never hear enough of it though. It's always nice to be constantly reminded of it instead of pointing out how wonderful it is how we have matured and progressed as a country and society in such a short amount of time.
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Post by Zamtuk »

uh huh like persecuting muslims

but i guess when you have an outlook that goes along the lines of 'fuck the muslims' we really have matured.
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Post by Chidoro »

It's a great casino though. Same with Mohegan Sun. Fun weekend getaways.
Thank god for tax free land! The blackjack rules are astounding because of it!
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Post by Dregor Thule »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Yes. We know. The white man did some bad stuff in the beginning with Indians and blacks. You can never hear enough of it though. It's always nice to be constantly reminded of it instead of pointing out how wonderful it is how we have matured and progressed as a country and society in such a short amount of time.
Funny, you sure are quick to bring up how your forefathers fought for your freedom, but are just as quick to dismiss something like the systematic slaughter of natives. Selective use of history anyone?
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Post by Bren »

TURKEY AND PIE! :D
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Post by Sylvus »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Yes. We know. The white man did some bad stuff in the beginning with Indians and blacks. You can never hear enough of it though. It's always nice to be constantly reminded of it instead of pointing out how wonderful it is how we have matured and progressed as a country and society in such a short amount of time.
Yeah, I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that tomorrow you'll be eating a delicious turkey in celebration of the slaughter of their people. Provided the above quote is true, it would be somewhat analagous to us having a holiday where we depict the happy African people enjoying their exciting boat ride across the Atlantic Ocean. Does that help illustrate to you why they are upset? What if someone had killed your grandparents and once a year every store you walked past and tv station you turned on showed charicatures of the killer and your grandparents getting along famously at a dinner together? I'm sure you'd just grin and bear it, after all, it was in the past.

I'm not saying I'm not going to enjoy my Thanksgiving dinner tomorrow, but I'm not going to be a callous fucking douchebag who thinks that this guy is in the wrong for pointing out history that is pretty well glossed over in your American History textbook.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Dregor Thule wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Yes. We know. The white man did some bad stuff in the beginning with Indians and blacks. You can never hear enough of it though. It's always nice to be constantly reminded of it instead of pointing out how wonderful it is how we have matured and progressed as a country and society in such a short amount of time.
Funny, you sure are quick to bring up how your forefathers fought for your freedom, but are just as quick to dismiss something like the systematic slaughter of natives. Selective use of history anyone?
Here's the difference between you and me. I haven't forgotten anything. I just don't see the need in continually bringing up the negative. This has been my creed forever. Continually bringing up the negativity without focusing and emphasizing the positives is very very destructive.
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Post by archeiron »

A stable agrarian derived culture from one area expanded outwards into the uncultivated land used by, but not settled upon, by a hunter and gatherer society that was in a transition phase to an agrarian society. The colonists died in droves trying to settle the new land and were met with a mixture of hostility and help from the indigenous people. In addition to direct conflict over territory, the colonists brought a host of "foreign" diseases that decimated the locals that were not used to those infections. The hostile environment killed colonists by the thousands but they prevailed through superior technology and numbers.

This story has happened since the advent of agriculture. What makes it more reprehensible is that given the technological and culture advances of the settled culture they should have been sufficiently enlightened to behave better than they did. However, that was not the case.

At least, we have chosen to remember good things from those times to save in our cultural memory rather than just the bad. We have chosen to think of the tribes of New England (and beyond) as the "noble savage".

We do regret the loss of the Plains Indians, despite the fact that their way of life was only made possible by the introduction of Spanish horses into the Americas. (Yes, the Sioux indians existed before that, but not as plains hunters).

It was unfortunate how things played out for the "original" Americans, but we have matured (I hope!) a great deal since then. I hope that those of us alive today will have learned from this lesson.
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Post by Hesten »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Yes. We know. The white man did some bad stuff in the beginning with Indians and blacks. You can never hear enough of it though. It's always nice to be constantly reminded of it instead of pointing out how wonderful it is how we have matured and progressed as a country and society in such a short amount of time.
ROFL, you kinda did the opposite Midnyte.
The guy who originally found America appearantly couldnt see the difference between continents. Neither can your president today.

Progressed? Well, you more or less ruined the land you took.

Did bad stuff to indiand and blacks. Damn, could have sworn you guys still did that. You guys still got camps....sorry, reservations for the people who welcomed you when you first came to america. Oh, and yeah, you matured, i totally forgot that theres no racial problems in the US today....oh wait, there is, with some people still backing it...a lot actually.
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Post by noel »

Why Dregor... Are those 'rose coloured glasses' ?!?!!
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Post by archeiron »

Sylvus wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Yes. We know. The white man did some bad stuff in the beginning with Indians and blacks. You can never hear enough of it though. It's always nice to be constantly reminded of it instead of pointing out how wonderful it is how we have matured and progressed as a country and society in such a short amount of time.
Yeah, I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that tomorrow you'll be eating a delicious turkey in celebration of the slaughter of their people. Provided the above quote is true, it would be somewhat analagous to us having a holiday where we depict the happy African people enjoying their exciting boat ride across the Atlantic Ocean. Does that help illustrate to you why they are upset? What if someone had killed your grandparents and once a year every store you walked past and tv station you turned on showed charicatures of the killer and your grandparents getting along famously at a dinner together? I'm sure you'd just grin and bear it, after all, it was in the past.

I'm not saying I'm not going to enjoy my Thanksgiving dinner tomorrow, but I'm not going to be a callous fucking douchebag who thinks that this guy is in the wrong for pointing out history that is pretty well glossed over in your American History textbook.
Why are you bashing Midnyte here?

It is likely that his ancestors (Italian, I believe) were not a party to what happened between the early settlers and the natives.

In any event, why would you want to start up with him for something one of his ancestors did to someone else's?

I am sure that you would be annoyed if someone started pointing fingers at you because your grandfather's grandfather's grandfather killed his grandfather's grandfather's grandfather. Perhaps, the difference that you are trying to draw attention to is that you would appear apologetic and sympathetic for that perceived slight. More than that and you are taking this a bit far against Midnyte.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Sylvus wrote: I'm not saying I'm not going to enjoy my Thanksgiving dinner tomorrow, but I'm not going to be a callous fucking douchebag who thinks that this guy is in the wrong for pointing out history that is pretty well glossed over in your American History textbook.
It wasn't glossed over in my textbooks when I was in school.

And wtf was that horrible analogy? Pictures of people dressed up like pilgrims, which is how they dressed during that time period, would bother you? Maybe you are right. If you are very self centered and unable to look at the big picture, which you have shown numerous times, you probably would get all mad and offended. You are one of societies true problems.

Terrible things have happened to my family. I don't think about my "people"! I am an american. I am of Italian ancestry, but I don't continue to represent myself as an Italian. I have an Italian name and am proud to be an Italian, but I don't hold grudges against people who have inflicted harm on past Italians. I don't hold a grudge on the Russians who held my grandfather as a POW for 5 years and killed his brother in front of his eyes. Those were the times. It happened. People have grown. People have changed. You need to try a little of that.
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Post by Winnow »

Thanksgiving has a very high suicide rate. Isn't that enough to even the score? Some indians died back in the day but that was in a relatively short period of time. Think about the total number of people that will die and have died from suicides on Thanksgiving due to depression caused by strained holiday family relations. Anytime you are forced to forced to talk to relatives you don't want to be around on Thanksgiving, it's a little sweet revenge for the american indian.
Last edited by Winnow on November 24, 2004, 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Bren »

on a lighter note....

Im thankful for kittens,sparkly things and chocolate soy milk.
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Post by Sylvus »

archeiron wrote:Why are you bashing Midnyte here?

It is likely that his ancestors (Italian, I believe) were not a party to what happened between the early settlers and the natives.

In any event, why would you want to start up with him for something one of his ancestors did to someone else's?

I am sure that you would be annoyed if someone started pointing fingers at you because your grandfather's grandfather's grandfather killed his grandfather's grandfather's grandfather. Perhaps, the difference that you are trying to draw attention to is that you would appear apologetic and sympathetic for that perceived slight. More than that and you are taking this a bit far against Midnyte.
I'm bashing midnyte for saying
You can never hear enough of it though.
in response to the author's piece.

The truth of the matter is that if he lived wherever (Italy?) his grandfather was captured and his great-uncle was murdered, and once a year there was a celebration that commemorated that event where people put up pictures of the Russian military eating lunch with his grandfather and great-uncle and all of them smiling and having a grand old time, he might not be as cool with it. It might be a little more difficult to move past it, and he might want to try and let people know why he had a problem with their celebration. That would be perfectly understandable, and that is exactly what the author of this piece is saying.

My assertion that he's a callous fucking douchebag stands.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

That's fine man. But, no I wouldn't feel differently. It does no good to focus heavily on the negativity of the past. It is important to remember and learn from the mistakes in the past, but not to focus and lament upon them. Hey, you do what you want. I choose not to be like that and never will. I will always try and focus on the positive 99% of the time. I am human so I will make rash statements like "fuck muslims" every once in a while. But, I will recant as soon as I realize how foolish I was.
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Post by Dregor Thule »

*cough*bullshit*cough*
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Post by Seebs »

What on Earth would we have done to a Balck Indian tribe!? Oh the horror!!

The people doing most of the atrocities to the Indians were the French, The Dutch and the damn Spainards.

I blame them.

I do like using the word Wigwam every so often so a big 'Thanks' to the Indians for that. Now get off my lawn.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Dregor Thule wrote:*cough*bullshit*cough*
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nt
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Post by Dregor Thule »

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fine sir
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

hehe
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Post by *~*stragi*~* »

Dregor Thule wrote:Image
dude those r totally fake oakleys u got ripped off LOL
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Post by Kylere »

It is undeniable that textbooks gloss over the history of what has been done to minorities by Europeans. To state otherwise is to help promote the lie.
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Post by Zaelath »

History is written by the victors.. you can see it happening now :)
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Post by Rasspotari »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Dregor Thule wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Yes. We know. The white man did some bad stuff in the beginning with Indians and blacks. You can never hear enough of it though. It's always nice to be constantly reminded of it instead of pointing out how wonderful it is how we have matured and progressed as a country and society in such a short amount of time.
Funny, you sure are quick to bring up how your forefathers fought for your freedom, but are just as quick to dismiss something like the systematic slaughter of natives. Selective use of history anyone?
Here's the difference between you and me. I haven't forgotten anything. I just don't see the need in continually bringing up the negative. This has been my creed forever. Continually bringing up the negativity without focusing and emphasizing the positives is very very destructive.
now with this i agree. lets focus on the positive things of the past, and i want to add, in the now as well.

the war in Iraq will give us oil. we might kill a few terrorists. and some companies in america will make money. just focus on that and all will be well.
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Post by Rasspotari »

Kylere wrote:It is undeniable that textbooks gloss over the history of what has been done to minorities by Europeans. To state otherwise is to help promote the lie.

fucking anti-european, may you rot in hell motherfucker !
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Post by Kelshara »

He already is rotting in Hell. Aka Flint. You know, the home of Moore?
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Post by Akaran_D »

Yes. We lied, we stole, we robbed graves, we murdered men, women, children, and brought untold of diseases that ravaged the people of the land while we comitted horrific acts of rape, slaughter, and just about every other crime you can name.

However, three hundred years in the future now, and with the heritage of someone that was not part of the intial settling group by about a full century, I don't know what I can do about it.

Tell me, oh wise ones, what can I do about it?
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Post by Lynks »

Stop doing it in other countries maybe? Just a thought.
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Post by Akaran_D »

Sure. As soon as we finish settling Iraq.. but um, we're not settling it. We're not stealing their land. We're not stealing anything, really. Killing people, yes. It happens in a war. A war that we were wrong in doing, a war that the UN was wrong in not stopping us from launching. Now if we leave now... what's going to happen? Do you think it's going to get better?
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Post by Lynks »

It won't get better, just take it in and think next time. Take a look back at your history and just think for a second instead of acting in the heat of the moment.
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Post by Akaran_D »

Riiiight. Because every american citizen has a say in what we do as a country hen it comes to declaring war. Sure, we can elect people, but we have no controll over their actions.

I personallly haven't invaded anyone yet. I haven't stolen their lands, their women, their freedoms. I wasn't around - that I know of, depending on your views on reincarnation - 300 years ago when we settled this continent. I've never going to war with someone, and I've never fired a shot in a battle.

Tell me again. As I, a single soul on this continent, under this government, what can I do to correct the mistakes that occured 300 years ago?
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Post by Aaeamdar »

Tell me, oh wise ones, what can I do about it?
Stop celebrating Thanksgiving. I think that's really most of what the native Americans are asking. Its one thing to accept the situation and move on (as I most certainly do - bad things happened to natives 300 years ago. So sad, but whatever), its another thing to support to continuation of the celebration of those events. If enough people stop the traditions of the celebrations, the the holiday itself will eventually change its meaning. I mean really, we won. Good for us. Is there really a need to keep shoving it the face of those we defeated?
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Post by Akaran_D »

I don't celebrate thanksgiving because of what the settlers did.
I celebrate it to have a day to spend with my family when we're all home, all together, and to have one time in a year when I give thanks to God, my family and my friends for the things I have and the fact that most of them are still alive.

The Indians of the past and present have nothing to do with it.
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Post by Kylere »

LOL White men still speak with forked tongues

As someone of Amerind Heritage, being pro europeans historically would be stupid, doesn't mean I have anything against Europeans being born now, unless they demonstrate their stupidity is current not just historical, as have several in this thread.
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Post by Lalanae »

Kylere wrote:LOL White men still speak with forked tongues

As someone of Amerind Heritage, being pro europeans historically would be stupid, doesn't mean I have anything against Europeans being born now, unless they demonstrate their stupidity is current not just historical, as have several in this thread.
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Post by Dregor Thule »

Why, is that Kylere all gussied up for the Thanksgiving Day Parade?
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Post by Kelshara »

Riiiight. Because every american citizen has a say in what we do as a country hen it comes to declaring war. Sure, we can elect people, but we have no controll over their actions.
You do have a say: You vote.

You can controll their action: Don't re-elect them.
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Post by Zaelath »

Akaran_D wrote:Riiiight. Because every american citizen has a say in what we do as a country hen it comes to declaring war. Sure, we can elect people, but we have no controll over their actions.

I personallly haven't invaded anyone yet. I haven't stolen their lands, their women, their freedoms. I wasn't around - that I know of, depending on your views on reincarnation - 300 years ago when we settled this continent. I've never going to war with someone, and I've never fired a shot in a battle.

Tell me again. As I, a single soul on this continent, under this government, what can I do to correct the mistakes that occured 300 years ago?
Ummm no, sorry. You voted for Bush after he declared significant wars on two disparate soverign countries; you endorsed those actions with your vote and took his culpability as your own for any and all deaths sustained in those wars and future wars he's likely to declare.

I'll grant you Afghanistan as "self defense" regardless how poorly it was handled and how little effort appeared centred on the state aim of that conflict, but Iraq was an invasion.
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Post by Nick »

Akaran wrote:
a war that the UN was wrong in not stopping us from launching
.................Are you saying that the UN should have started military action (which if you remember your hysterical President acting so insanely it would have been the only possible realistic way to ACTUALLY stop the invasion) and that it is their fault your country chose to lie and invade a country on the basis of lies......

That is what your sentence implies.
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Post by Keverian FireCry »

None of the holidays have any one meaning to them. They've become "celebrate capitalism" days. Go out and buy a fuckton of food, and/or presents, costumes, decorations, candy, etc. They are little more than that + whatever family traditions you have based around these days.

For example, to argue that Christmas celebrates Jesus' life is absolute bullshit. Since when was Jesus for spending a buttload of money on things you don't need. If Christmas was about Jesus, we'd spend all of our fucking money on people in need and not on ourselves. If you want to celebrate jesus, be a kind, understanding, and forgiving person every fucking day of your life, not just when you put up a tree with lights on it.

Thanksgiving is a bit different though. Beyond being a day off to celebrate capitalism, it is important to give thanks to the natives who helped our ancestors to survive their first winter(there's NO way they would have survived without the natives). So in hindsight, we probably shouldn't have commited the mass genocide of their people. Unless you disagree with that, then the least you can do is to thank them for what they did for us. Again, this country would not have existed with out them and for a board full of self-procclaimed patriots, it seems all too many of you forget(or ignore) that fact.

edit: By "thanking" them, I don't mean the act of eating a shitload of food...that will happen anyway. I mean thanking them by having everyone at your thanksgiving table give them a moment of silence and to simply have an understanding of the true history of it all. That is not a lot to ask.
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Post by Cracc »

Dont we have an native american on these boards i thought? Kilmoll? correct me if i am wrong please. But it would be intressting to hear his viewpoint on the whole thing.
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Post by Spang »

if you want to get rid of Thanksgiving do what Sarah Josepha Hale did to make it a national day. see if you can do it in less than 40 years!
October of 1777 marked the first time that all 13 colonies joined in a thanksgiving celebration. It also commemorated the patriotic victory over the British at Saratoga. But it was a one-time affair.

George Washington proclaimed a National Day of Thanksgiving in 1789, although some were opposed to it. There was discord among the colonies, many feeling the hardships of a few Pilgrims did not warrant a national holiday. And later, President Thomas Jefferson scoffed at the idea of having a day of thanksgiving.

It was Sarah Josepha Hale, a magazine editor, whose efforts eventually led to what we recognize as Thanksgiving. Hale wrote many editorials championing her cause in her Boston Ladies' Magazine, and later, in Godey's Lady's Book. Finally, after a 40-year campaign of writing editorials and letters to governors and presidents, Hale's obsession became a reality when, in 1863, President Lincolnproclaimed the last Thursday in November as a national day of Thanksgiving.

Thanksgiving was proclaimed by every president after Lincoln. The date was changed a couple of times, most recently by Franklin Roosevelt, who set it up one week to the next-to-last Thursday in order to create a longer Christmas shopping season. Public uproar against this decision caused the president to move Thanksgiving back to its original date two years later. And in 1941, Thanksgiving was finally sanctioned by Congress as a legal holiday, as the fourth Thursday in November.
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Post by Mak »

Sylvus wrote:Provided the above quote is true, it would be somewhat analagous to us having a holiday where we depict the happy African people enjoying their exciting boat ride across the Atlantic Ocean.
Would that be a paid holiday?
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Post by Chmee »

Keverian FireCry wrote:They've become "celebrate capitalism" days.
Personally I would strongly support the creation of an actual "celebrate capitilism" day. :)
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Post by Lynks »

Riiiight. Because every american citizen has a say in what we do as a country hen it comes to declaring war. Sure, we can elect people, but we have no controll over their actions.
Of course you do, but because Bush was re-elected, whatever he did illegally was given thumbs up by the people. You have no control over their actions? Again I tell you to take a look at your history and think and just maybe, something like this screw up could be prevented.
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