Why there should be a recount of Ohio

Toshira · Post by **Toshira** » November 19, 2004, 5:37 pm

Animalor wrote:
Thess wrote:
Animalor wrote:The election was over when Kerry abdicated. I don't think he can come back 17 days after the election, rescind his abdication and fight this now to get the job.
You are wrong, someone conceeding means nothing in terms of law.
Then I stand corrected. Thanks for the clarification.

Even if it were legally binding, most likely, if fraud was discovered, a concession would be invalididated.

Dorks. Those of you who are whining about "teh liberals" - this issue extends beyond partisanship. Fine, Bush won. Sucks if you're a fag, great if you agree with the morally superior who have Values.

Election fraud is a bad thing, m'kay? Or didn't they teach you that in Values school?

One thing I am curious about. Minnesota allows voters to register on the same day of the election - does Ohio allow this? If so, are the numbers from your article showing the number of registered voters before Nov. 2 or after? It's possible, with the high turnout, that thousands registered in a single precinct.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » November 19, 2004, 5:45 pm

Lohrno wrote:There are some irregularities.

You'll note that Kerry conceded, and the democratic mainstream hasn't contested the results.

I'm sure prior to conceding, the numbers were run as to whether he could've won with all the debateable votes reconciled. If he thought he could've won it would have been contested. Edwards purpotedly wanted to, Kerry said no.

I'd like to find out if anything odd happened, it does looks like something was going on. No mattter the results of an investigation, the fringe will still be complaining.

Rekaar. · Post by **Rekaar.** » November 19, 2004, 5:48 pm

Sylvus wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last couple elections have been a lot closer than any others in recent memory, yes?

you are wrong, this was the biggest win in a Presidential election in decades

Keverian FireCry · Post by **Keverian FireCry** » November 19, 2004, 5:50 pm

None of you conservative fuckheads are even listening to us. We know Bush won, we just want all the fucking votes counted, and counted right. Whether that means Bush ends up winning by more than he already has, we don't care. We just want our voting system to work correctly. That's not too much to ask is it?

When our main job these days is to invade countries and turn them into democracies, we might want to ensure that our own democracy is working at it's best. If we are to be a shining example of why democracy can work around the world, then it needs to work better here.

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » November 19, 2004, 5:50 pm

Rekaar. wrote:
Sylvus wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last couple elections have been a lot closer than any others in recent memory, yes?

you are wrong, this was the biggest win in a Presidential election in decades

no its not...look at the %, thats what matters i believe he is the president to get re elected by the smallest % in a long long time...it was 51 to 49 opposed to say regans 75 to 25 victory

Rekaar. · Post by **Rekaar.** » November 19, 2004, 5:51 pm

The Republicans are so BUSTED.

I think the only possible alternative is to invalidate the entire Ohio election, if not the entire national election. I'd say the game's up.

America, it looks pretty much like you've been had.

Wanting to know why our system is so inefficient is totally different from the claim supported here.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » November 19, 2004, 5:57 pm

Toshira wrote:
Dorks. Those of you who are whining about "teh liberals" - this issue extends beyond partisanship. Fine, Bush won. Sucks if you're a fag, great if you agree with the morally superior who have Values.

Actually it doesn't even suck that much if you're a fruit bag. Read Fesuni's post elsewhere. Marriage is not something worth fighting for. On the other hand, civil unions are and Bush has begun to come around on that issue which is the only one that matters. At least the Republican ticket had homosexuality at the forefront. With Cheney's daughter being bounced around by Kerry, it helped the republicans ease their stance and will continue to do so while Cheney is still alive and in office, you have someone holding a high position in the republican/U.S government that knows the issues first hand.

Thess · Post by **Thess** » November 19, 2004, 6:07 pm

It is getting recounted - the socialist party as well as the libertarian party (hi opposite sides of the political spectrum) have put in together and received enough money to be recounted.

Nader is working on New Hampshire

and Bev Harris is working on Florida

Seebs · Post by **Seebs** » November 19, 2004, 6:21 pm

None of you conservative fuckheads are even listening to us

I agree whole-heartedly.

wait .. I hear a Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaammmbulance coming.

Keverian FireCry · Post by **Keverian FireCry** » November 19, 2004, 6:35 pm

Thanks for proving my point Seebs. Where the fuck did you come from anyway? Suddenly, out of nowhere, you've become the new Cartalas.

Homercles · Post by **Homercles** » November 19, 2004, 6:39 pm

I think Seebs is rather hilarious.

I look forward to reading his posts

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » November 19, 2004, 6:39 pm

Keverian FireCry wrote:Thanks for proving my point Seebs. Where the fuck did you come from anyway? Suddenly, out of nowhere, you've become the new Cartalas.

Frankly I'd rather Edwards stay home and support his wife right now than try to further his political career.

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » November 19, 2004, 6:40 pm

Seebs should just stick to his shitting his pants stories.

Thess · Post by **Thess** » November 19, 2004, 6:41 pm

Animalor wrote:
Keverian FireCry wrote:Thanks for proving my point Seebs. Where the fuck did you come from anyway? Suddenly, out of nowhere, you've become the new Cartalas.
Frankly I'd rather Edwards stay home and support his wife right now than try to further his political career.

I think I missed your joke, but Edwards pretty much hasn't left her side since she was diagnosed.

Seebs · Post by **Seebs** » November 19, 2004, 6:41 pm

So many haters.

Give hugs instead of drugs .. hippies.

Rekaar. · Post by **Rekaar.** » November 19, 2004, 7:09 pm

Some people come to this board to piss people off, or to get pissed off. Seebs clearly enjoys coming here and has fun every day. Kudos to that.

Arundel Pajo · Post by **Arundel Pajo** » November 19, 2004, 9:04 pm

recrocarted?

...recrocarted??

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » November 19, 2004, 9:33 pm

Thess wrote:
Animalor wrote:
Keverian FireCry wrote:Thanks for proving my point Seebs. Where the fuck did you come from anyway? Suddenly, out of nowhere, you've become the new Cartalas.
Frankly I'd rather Edwards stay home and support his wife right now than try to further his political career.
I think I missed your joke, but Edwards pretty much hasn't left her side since she was diagnosed.

Wasn't a joke. Haven't been following news about him but I was just hoping that he would be taking care of her.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · November 19, 2004, 10:03 pm

Seebs wrote:None of you conservative fuckheads are even listening to us

I agree whole-heartedly.

wait .. I hear a Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaammmbulance coming.

ROFL

Was that an Arty Lang reference? hehe

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » November 19, 2004, 11:19 pm

Keverian FireCry wrote:Thanks for proving my point Seebs. Where the fuck did you come from anyway? Suddenly, out of nowhere, you've become the new Cartalas.

I was thinking the exact same thing earlier. Can be funny on occassion but usually not.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » November 19, 2004, 11:42 pm

As a lifelong member of PETA, I am strongly opposed to the deflowering of Kentucky sheep before their first shearing. Meat is murder, choose celibacy, not livestock, Billy Bob!

/steps off of soapbox

Now, with my political agenda that I was CCed on fullfilled, I will agree and disagree on the Ohio theory.

I do agree that the ballots, IF there is valid cause, should indeed be recounted (by a non-partisan group, of course). Hey, I want every legal American voter to count as well (should there be a polling error). I for one am not frightened by any possibility of the man I did not vote for somehow pulling off a post-game-come-from-behind-victory.

I agree that concession speech is not legally binding, but it does speak volumes to the American people. Maybe he just didn't think that the Socialists and Libertarians were going to try and save the day for him...

If only Karl Marx and Groucho and Harpo were there to help as well, eh?

A couple things though:

This whole "you Republican neocons" or "you pussy liberal douchebags" is counterproductive. For Americans, we win or lose as Americans, not liberals or republicans. Some say we lose for 4 years, some say we win. I say we are pretty much status quo until we (hopefully) get someone in office that perhaps more than 50% +/- 1% can agree on. Until that happens, live your life the best you can. Do not worry about the sky falling or your firstborn being yanked from your teat--the odds are just not in favor of that.

Of course, common sense and chivalry have no place in this section, as logical debate faded into obscurity not too long before the presidential race began to heat up....well, maybe even before that.

To summarize:

1. I agree 100% on correct ballot counts. Kind of retarded if our votes have a even or better chance of being correct.

- Let's have that polling info from a valid source--angry Socialists (or is it socialites) have no place determining anything except if they are in fact awake or just dreaming about hammers and sickles. Same goes with the far right wingers.

2. If you want to continue to receive the ire of the more extreme factions of VV members, by all means.... I imagine "HAHAHA YOU LOSE FUCKERS!!!11!!" and "You elected a monster you dirty neocon!!! OMG!" will still be spouted for quite some time--perhaps the #1 reason why this section sucks so much ass these days.

3. Trees scream when you chop them down, fish have feelings and drinking milk is wrong. Go vegan or go home you hippy communist neocon corporate bastard fucks!

With

2 all,

Your momma

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » November 19, 2004, 11:43 pm

Aslanna wrote:
Keverian FireCry wrote:Thanks for proving my point Seebs. Where the fuck did you come from anyway? Suddenly, out of nowhere, you've become the new Cartalas.
I was thinking the exact same thing earlier. Can be funny on occassion but usually not.

It's not even that so much.. it's that Seebs has always been the type of person you'd love to have a chat and a few beers with, from his persona on here. I never heard him say *shit* about the election before it was called. Lately, he's become like a fair weather fan of Bush and rants on like the worst kind of ass..

I don't get it, did he perhaps give Cartalas his login info?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » November 20, 2004, 2:54 am

The libs are turning on you comrade Seebs! Beware. They are fair weather "friends" and only laugh if your jokes have socialist overtones!

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » November 20, 2004, 3:05 am

Winnow wrote:The libs are turning on you comrade Seebs! Beware. They are fair weather "friends" and only laugh if your jokes have socialist overtones!

Bitch please, when did Seebs make political posts of any kind *before* Bush was re-elected.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » November 20, 2004, 3:12 am

Zaelath wrote:
Winnow wrote:The libs are turning on you comrade Seebs! Beware. They are fair weather "friends" and only laugh if your jokes have socialist overtones!
Bitch please, when did Seebs make political posts of any kind *before* Bush was re-elected.

Seebs wrote:Bush/Arkansas

Diddled Marbus' sister while we waited. SHowed her my special Poleing place.

All that is required is that he voted Bush before the election was determined to have full liberal bitch slapping rights.

Rivera Bladestrike · November 20, 2004, 3:47 am

I don't agree with anything Seebs says, but I definately see and appreciate the humor in it.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » November 20, 2004, 4:22 am

Dammit. I spent all of 5 minutes writing a post and it gets flat out ignored. IGNORED I TELL YOU!!!!

heartless neocon hippie bastards

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » November 20, 2004, 4:53 am

Winnow wrote: All that is required is that he voted Bush before the election was determined to have full liberal bitch slapping rights.

Is what you do now nothing but troll? I mean seriously, try to have point sometimes.

-=Lohrno

Rivera Bladestrike · November 20, 2004, 6:28 am

Canelek wrote:Dammit. I spent all of 5 minutes writing a post and it gets flat out ignored. IGNORED I TELL YOU!!!! heartless neocon hippie bastards

Its very common in the Current Events forum.

Thess · Post by **Thess** » November 20, 2004, 6:36 am

Canelek wrote:Dammit. I spent all of 5 minutes writing a post and it gets flat out ignored. IGNORED I TELL YOU!!!! heartless neocon hippie bastards

Why do you think so many people write one liners? They are really all that's read generally.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » November 20, 2004, 8:40 am

i read it! good post!

Nick · Post by **Nick** » November 20, 2004, 10:55 am

Yeah the conservatives have real moral superiority ^^

Acies · Post by **Acies** » November 20, 2004, 2:08 pm

Brotha wrote:I chalk this up to liberals having a sudden, painful reality check.

Yeah, the realization that we have to endure four more years of Bush fucking up our country has sunk in

May I ask you who voted for Bush a serious question? Why did you vote for him? What issues do you believe in that he supports? Just want to know.

Seebs · Post by **Seebs** » November 20, 2004, 2:55 pm

I disagree and make fun of some people .. all in jest (for the most part) in a current events forum. I'm having some fun guuys, if you take it personally then I assume you have not moved on from the election and make need that therapy I;veread about.

As for my political swayings, I founded a College Republicans Chapter at University of Arkansas at Little Rock in 1988. Debated for the right in a campus wide debate. Was kinda easy going up against a Mew England liberal .. (history).

Became dispassioned in the 90's with politics and was not happy or too sad with Bush 41's loss or Clinton's victory.

The past two elections have been polarizing, emotional and hard fought on both sides. I would not have been too upset if Kerry would have won,

It really does not make that much differnce guys. All politicians are the lowest forms of life. They are used Care salemen, repo men and letcherous uncles all rolled into one. It amazes me that you think your passion is going to make a difference.

Lastly, I posted some very, very political stuff in the General Forum in May/June and split the boards. Folks attacked me as some of you are doing now. I never had visited the Political Forum or Current Events prevously and though this was a safe haven for opinions.

I'm a right leaning moderate now. No signs in my yard, no stickers on my car. I voted for several Democrats in the local election. Apathy, and understanding of a candidates limitations make one more dispassionate.

So, lampoon me if you like, I enjoy that. Attack me if it validates your position, thats your perception and you have a right to it.

But don't ask where I came from and question my ability to post on this board. Taking that angle does nothing to validate your position and show a tad bit of desparation

Flame away kids. I'm wearing my Asbestoes Elephant Thong.

Seebs · Post by **Seebs** » November 20, 2004, 3:02 pm

Oh, rereading some of the posts ... I type poorly, actually own an award for graduating Journalism School typing as I do.

I would love a spell check option on this board .. but alas.

Reciprocating.. Reciprocating.. Reciprocating

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » November 20, 2004, 3:41 pm

My opinion on your posts has nothing to do with your political stance.

But thanks for the analysis!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » November 20, 2004, 5:13 pm

Seebs wrote:Oh, rereading some of the posts ... I type poorly, actually own an award for graduating Journalism School typing as I do.

I would love a spell check option on this board .. but alas.

Reciprocating.. Reciprocating.. Reciprocating

I'd love an automated spellchecker built into the preview option as well.

PS: If you liberal fucks run another conservative off the boards with your (ironically) fascist-like passion for grouping together for support to try and weed out the minority (although correct) opinions on this board you should be ashamed of yourselves.

You should see the IRC channel. A certain person who bitched about a moderator on this board is booting and banning people on IRC. Oh the fucking irony of it all. What an asshat. What a bunch of kooks. If you want this board and IRC to be a liberal lovefest, change the name to something more appropriate like PussyVault-A liberal Forum with a fascist twist.

Rock on Seebs! I, for one, will still like your posts even if you change into a liberal pussy!

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » November 20, 2004, 5:36 pm

Fascist liberals heh

Use more contradictory negative terms please.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » November 20, 2004, 6:21 pm

Forthe wrote:Fascist liberals heh

Use more contradictory negative terms please.

Pretty odd isn't it? We have a bunch of people who think they are liberals but only want to hear similar opinons. Grats on being a new breed of Fascist Liberals!

Free love! Peace on earth! Free Speech! Hey, that dude over there doesn't agree with us. Boot him! Nice. Very nice.

Who is quicker to get flustered and hop on the STFU button or whine about "oh poster X used to be such a good guy but now..." it's the whiney fake liberals that really just want things run their way or the highway.

If any of you ran a message board, all it really would be is a self help, feel good about ourselves board, blind to the reality of the world around you. That's nice but not what this board is about.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » November 20, 2004, 7:01 pm

So uhm, would anyone care to explain to me why the vote should not be recounted? Or are we just going to sit here bitching at eachother?

Are all of you that are against verifying the vote comfortable knowing that there is no physical verification of the way you voted?

Or is it that you don't care how it happened, you're just glad Bush is running the country?

-=Lohrno

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » November 20, 2004, 7:26 pm

Seebs wrote:I disagree and make fun of some people .. all in jest (for the most part) in a current events forum. I'm having some fun guuys, if you take it personally then I assume you have not moved on from the election and make need that therapy I;veread about.

As for my political swayings, I founded a College Republicans Chapter at University of Arkansas at Little Rock in 1988. Debated for the right in a campus wide debate. Was kinda easy going up against a Mew England liberal .. (history).

Became dispassioned in the 90's with politics and was not happy or too sad with Bush 41's loss or Clinton's victory.

The past two elections have been polarizing, emotional and hard fought on both sides. I would not have been too upset if Kerry would have won,

It really does not make that much differnce guys. All politicians are the lowest forms of life. They are used Care salemen, repo men and letcherous uncles all rolled into one. It amazes me that you think your passion is going to make a difference.

Lastly, I posted some very, very political stuff in the General Forum in May/June and split the boards. Folks attacked me as some of you are doing now. I never had visited the Political Forum or Current Events prevously and though this was a safe haven for opinions.

I'm a right leaning moderate now. No signs in my yard, no stickers on my car. I voted for several Democrats in the local election. Apathy, and understanding of a candidates limitations make one more dispassionate.

So, lampoon me if you like, I enjoy that. Attack me if it validates your position, thats your perception and you have a right to it.

But don't ask where I came from and question my ability to post on this board. Taking that angle does nothing to validate your position and show a tad bit of desparation

Flame away kids. I'm wearing my Asbestoes Elephant Thong.

I don't think anyone's questioning your right to post anywhere. But I have to admit to being a little confused why you're waving your dick around basically going "neener neener, toldyaso!!" when you have been quiet on the subject. In fact, your previous persona reflected your right leaning moderate persona, galloping around with a wet towel slapping the tubby kid on his ass and calling him a whiney baby does not.

The trouble with being a "liberal" in today's world is it will take me a lot longer to have the "toldyaso" payoff, AND I don't want it.

Thess · Post by **Thess** » November 20, 2004, 7:55 pm

Who is quicker to get flustered and hop on the STFU button or whine about "oh poster X used to be such a good guy but now..." it's the whiney fake liberals that really just want things run their way or the highway.

Speaking for myself, I only have one person ignored - I have absolutely no problem with having a debate on politics, infact I enjoy it. I have talked to several of the conservatives one on one before about politics.

I like knowing how the other side thinks and reasoning for it, how they think the best way to solve a problem is. However if someone is just posting nonsense and consistantly posts just to get a reaction out of people - never to make a point, I will put them on ignore.

Personally Seebs hasn't bothered me at all.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » November 20, 2004, 9:07 pm

I think you do yourself a disservice even answering that Thess. That goes for any of us 'liberals'. They're just trying to:

A) Create a stereotype.

B) Not answer the question - "Why do you think verifying the vote is a bad idea?"

Seriously folks, I'd like to hear this...

And if you're going to answer "Because the socialists and democrats are doing it." Then please reccommend someone better to do it. An Independant panel? It seems there is no interest. Nader is even trying to get the vote counted right, and he's probably the most independant party here. He certainly doesn't have anything to gain or lose.

...

So please, why is this bad?

-=Lohrno

Arundel Pajo · Post by **Arundel Pajo** » November 21, 2004, 12:54 am

Seebs wrote:Oh, rereading some of the posts ... I type poorly, actually own an award for graduating Journalism School typing as I do.

I would love a spell check option on this board .. but alas.

Reciprocating.. Reciprocating.. Reciprocating

Heh - I don't have a problem with you, Seebs - I was just giving you a hard time.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » November 21, 2004, 3:26 pm

Seebs, I find the devils advocate role pretty funny

Winnow, the fascist liberal thing does stand...that however is more due to there being a higher amount of non retard "liberals" than non retarded "neocons". The neocon side is desperately lacking forceful intellectual discussion (until recently), usually it is just what has been spun to them.

Speaking of spin, both terms (liberal, neocon) which have been spun into derogatory phrases that frankly have no place in intelligent discussion. Everyones opinions are unique, they may not all be the most well thought out but bracketing by you by even saying liberals etc (and me too if I have used it) is causing people to polarise through misperception (much like teh rl).

VV was a place for interesting debate. where discussion was rough and sharp yet everyone gained, even when someone got hit with a scathing remark.

It's not like we all actually hate eachother, otherwise we wouldn't bother posting. Well.....that's the case for me I suppose.

fUKC yuo ALL!!11hahalolz!!!11one

Thess · Post by **Thess** » November 21, 2004, 4:22 pm

At least liberals made up a new phrase rather then calling all conservatives horrible.

Arundel Pajo · Post by **Arundel Pajo** » November 21, 2004, 5:10 pm

I think it's worth noting here that neither liberals nor democrats made up the term "neocon." That was made up by the neocons themselves to differentiate themselves from pre-Reagan "paleocons." It's a badge many of them wear with pride, though the word is nearly synonymous with "evil" in many democratic camps.

Thess · Post by **Thess** » November 21, 2004, 5:21 pm

Arundel Pajo wrote:I think it's worth noting here that neither liberals nor democrats made up the term "neocon." That was made up by the neocons themselves to differentiate themselves from pre-Reagan "paleocons." It's a badge many of them wear with pride, though the word is nearly synonymous with "evil" in many democratic camps.

Yeah that's true, I worded poorly - meant to say have the decency to not label all conservatives as neo cons.

Rekaar. · Post by **Rekaar.** » November 22, 2004, 1:09 am

Lohrno wrote:I think you do yourself a disservice even answering that Thess. That goes for any of us 'liberals'. They're just trying to:

A) Create a stereotype.

B) Not answer the question - "Why do you think verifying the vote is a bad idea?"

Seriously folks, I'd like to hear this...

And if you're going to answer "Because the socialists and democrats are doing it." Then please reccommend someone better to do it. An Independant panel? It seems there is no interest. Nader is even trying to get the vote counted right, and he's probably the most independant party here. He certainly doesn't have anything to gain or lose.

...

So please, why is this bad?

-=Lohrno

Why is this bad? What a stupid question, seriously. If it turns out that Kerry really did win Ohio by some miracle (or fantastic cheat or whatever), it throws not just our nation but the free world into varying degrees of turmoil.

So let's say we recount Ohio and Kerry won. Well now we're recounting Pennsylvania too. Now Florida. Now NH. Now NM. Etc etc. 2 years later, after we've completely degraded and eroded the prestige and effectiveness of a sitting fucking President (not to mention the position itself), we've finally got it officially right...well, that is after the lawsuits end up in the Supreme Court and the entire election is invalidated thereby PROVING TO THE WORLD that the US doesn't know wtf its doing.

OR HEY we could all recognize the painfully obvious conclusion that everyone already knows - that our polling system needs an overhaul - and act on it without destroying the fabric of our government.

Seriously, do you even think about consequences? You embarass yourself asking that question with a straight face.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » November 22, 2004, 1:59 am

This is the same reasoning that says, "Holy shit, we can't let it get out this priest has been screwing little boys, best move him to another parish quickly"

It's completely morally bankrupt to suggest you shouldn't examine your system for voting irregularities in case you find there is something wrong. And you don't have to worry about a recount in FL, your boys have made certain that's physically impossible..