FALLUJA, Iraq (CNN) -- The U.S. military is investigating whether a Marine shot dead an unarmed, wounded insurgent during the battle for Falluja in an incident captured on videotape by a pool reporter
So youre also in favor of killing all kids and woman going near soldiers with gifts, in case they could be booby trapped?Animalor wrote:Well with shit like........ happening, I can understand why they'd shoot anything that moved.About a block away, a Marine was killed and five others wounded by a booby-trapped body they found in a house after a shootout with insurgents.
That is a completely different issue.Hesten wrote:So youre also in favor of killing all kids and woman going near soldiers with gifts, in case they could be booby trapped?Animalor wrote:Well with shit like........ happening, I can understand why they'd shoot anything that moved.About a block away, a Marine was killed and five others wounded by a booby-trapped body they found in a house after a shootout with insurgents.
I didn't say what he did was good, however in the situation that your government has put there guys into, this type of snap decision is understandable, even though it is criminal.Hesten wrote:So youre also in favor of killing all kids and woman going near soldiers with gifts, in case they could be booby trapped?Animalor wrote:Well with shit like........ happening, I can understand why they'd shoot anything that moved.About a block away, a Marine was killed and five others wounded by a booby-trapped body they found in a house after a shootout with insurgents.
Charles Heyman, a senior defense analyst with Jane’s Consultancy Group in Britain, defended the Marine’s actions, saying it was possible the wounded man was concealing a firearm or grenade.
“You can hear the tension in those Marines’ voices. One is showing, ’He’s faking it. He’s faking it,”’ Heyman said. “In a combat infantry soldier’s training, he is always taught that his enemy is at his most dangerous when he is severely wounded.”
If the injured man makes even the slightest move, “in my estimation they would be justified in shooting him.”
Well it is a LIVE FIRE zone.Hesten wrote:So youre also in favor of killing all kids and woman going near soldiers with gifts, in case they could be booby trapped?Animalor wrote:Well with shit like........ happening, I can understand why they'd shoot anything that moved.About a block away, a Marine was killed and five others wounded by a booby-trapped body they found in a house after a shootout with insurgents.
The war is very obviously not over, no matter whether Bush claims it has (like ages ago....). We are meant to be civilized. These are yet more war crimes.Art. 3. In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each Party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following
provisions:
(1) Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.
To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:
(a) violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;
(b) taking of hostages;
(c) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment;
(d) the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.
Akaran, Ill concede if this report confirms that the US soldier had no option. If he had one, even one, any defense of him is completely wrong.The Marine then raises his rifle and fires into the man's head. The pictures are too graphic for us to broadcast," said Sites. He added: "The prisoner did not appear to be armed or threatening in any way". Major Doug Powell, a spokesman for the Marine Corps in Washington, told The Independent: "It's being investigated - I can't say much more than that. It's being investigated for possible law of war violations. A naval criminal investigation team is looking into it."
The footage - some of the first to show the situation inside Fallujah and the bloody nature of the street-by-street battle that has taken place there - is the latest to emerge from Iraq to contain possible evidence of war crimes perpetrated by the US military.
Other footage has shown troops shooting wounded fighters lying in open ground as well as attacks on Iraqis - some said to be civilians - by US aircraft and helicopters. This latest footage is among the most shocking given that it apparently shows without obstruction the Marine shooting the prisoner in the head at close range.
Kathy Kelly, a spokeswoman for the peace group Voices in the Wilderness, said last night that such images would "recruit more terrorists faster than they are being killed".
Did you just describe the American soldiers?Btw, not all of the 'insurgents' have a reason to be there. Some of them are fighters from other countries willing to die for the cause of defeating the evil american empire. There's a difference.
A video apparently showing the murder of aid worker Margaret Hassan seems to be genuine, says the Foreign Office.
"We now believe that she has probably been murdered", Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said after analysing the tape.
Her Iraqi husband, Tahseen Ali Hassan, has made a plea for her body to be returned to him "to rest in peace".
Mrs Hassan, who has Irish, British and Iraqi nationality, was seized by an unknown group in the Iraqi capital on 19 October.
'Stand condemned'
British Prime Minister Tony Blair sent his sympathy to Mrs Hassan's family, saying he "shared their abhorrence" at her treatment.
And Bertie Ahern, the Irish Republic's Prime Minister, said her kidnappers "stand condemned by everyone throughout the entire international community".
Arabic TV news channel Al Jazeera has said it has had a copy of the videotape for several days but has chosen not to broadcast it.
The video apparently shows a militant firing a pistol into the head of a blindfolded woman wearing an orange jumpsuit.
A spokesman for Al Jazeera said he presumed the woman was Mrs Hassan.
'Unforgivable'
Mr Hassan has appealed to the kidnappers to return his wife's body.
"I beg those people who took Margaret to tell me what they have done with her," he said.
"They can tell me. They can call the helpline. I need her. I need her back to rest in peace."
Mrs Hassan's brother and sisters, Michael, Deirdre, Kathryn and Geraldine Fitzsimons, said in a statement that their "hearts are broken".
They said: "We have kept hoping for as long as we could, but we now have to accept that Margaret has probably gone and at last her suffering has ended.
"She had no prejudice against any creed. She dedicated her whole life to working for the poor and vulnerable, helping those who had no-one else."
They described her murder as "unforgivable", adding: "The gap she leaves will never be filled."
Felicity Arbuthnot, a freelance journalist who was a close friend of Mrs Hassan, said she was both sad and angry at the aid worker's apparent death.
"It is an horrific irony that someone who had fought for this country should die in this way," she said.
Militant message
While the kidnapping was condemned by governments, the aid worker's colleagues and family repeatedly pleaded for her release.
Mrs Hassan, who had lived in Iraq for 30 years, was filmed by her captors asking Tony Blair to pull British troops out of Iraq.
Do you really believe that crap you are spewing. Did they not find a dead taxi driver and families in some of the homes. I know, they US forces came in, killed them all and then filmed it to look like they found it this way. I understand you hate America Teeny, but you would have done the same damn thing in his position. If you say you would not, you would be lying, either to yourself, or dead somewhere on the ground. It is not the right thing, but neither is this war.Notice it's always US soldiers. Coincidence? Why do you so vehemently defend this action Noel?
....it's a bit irrelevant until the next US election comes, given that somehow you really have been brainwashed into thinking that Bush is the best choice (really....are you insane?) This has absolutely ZERO to do with the USA or the war itself. The video images are from a combat situation where a soldier makes a decision about a potentially hostile wounded enemy. You can paint the soldier any color you want him to be and make him be from any country in the world representing any military or insurgent faction in the world, and I will still say that if he felt threatened he did 100% the right thing.Teenybloke wrote:Its ignoring laws the USA agreed to, everyone knows the US soldiers are trigger happy, 1 3 0 0 0 0 estimated.
That one soldier, if you check the images or the video if you find it, was clearly standing over the "insurgent" (A phrase that is not even grammatically accurate) who is well....hoping to fuck he isnt going to be killed by this so called high civilization.
I am NOT a bullshit gung-ho fucknut. I do however have enough understanding of armed combat to know that once someone is shooting at you, emotional arguments only mean things to people who are sitting at home passing judgement.Although lets assume its a reaction to a stressfull situation.......funny how its always US soldiers, maybe they are letting their emotions cloud their training,....... genius.... however, its a bullshit point in a bullshit war supported by bullshit gungho fucknuts.
Noel matey I know this is a controversial stance, and frankly it is a matter that is open to debate until we see conclusive video evidence, now I have seen pictures and the guy was lying there totally still, not in the mood to be shooting anyone at all, it also appears this is not the only time this has happened. There will never be 'conclusive video evidence'. It was 100% a judgement call. I do not care in the slightest how the wounded individual was lying, whether or not he actually was armed, whether or not he was clutching a teddy bear, or whatever.Teenybloke wrote:...until we see conclusive video evidence, now I have seen pictures and the guy was lying there totally still, not in the mood to be shooting anyone at all, it also appears this is not the only time this has happened...
A bullet in the head means you still have 29 in the magazine, and it means it's as immediate a death as is possible. You're still thinking in terms of, 'murder is bad', not in terms of, 'I want to live'.Teenybloke wrote:Thats irrelevant. If the fucking body is lying completely still there is no allowance for the bullet in the head. Regardless of dead friends, do we agree to savage murder now or something?
Where exactly are you getting this figure of "hundreds of thousands" from? Are you talking about Saddam?Teenybloke wrote:Is killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people
I personally DO NOT CARE. Those are not reasons for the US to send its sons and daughters to war. That has nothing to do with this topic and it's not even close to what Teeny is trying to say.Brotha wrote:Where exactly are you getting this figure of "hundreds of thousands" from? Are you talking about Saddam?Teenybloke wrote:Is killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people
I just want you to say it: you wish the US hadn't of invaded Iraq. You wish Iraqis didn't have free speech or any basic rights of any kind. You wish Iraqis would be routinely tortured (don't give me this crap about a handful of fuck ups making a few people walk around naked at Abu Ghraib). You wish a mass murdering psychopath who's responsibile for more Muslim deaths than any person on the face of this earth were still in power and filling up mass graves. Say all that for me please.
What? Teeny is arguing about what we're doing to the Iraqi people. I'm simply pointing out what would factually be happening to them if he had had his way (if the US hadn't of invaded Iraq).noel wrote:I personally DO NOT CARE. That is not a reason for me the US to sends its sons and daughters to war. That has nothing to do with this topic and it's not even close to what Teeny is trying to say.
I get your stance but I still will wait to see how this plays out (assuming its ever mentioned again).](./images/smilies/eusa_wall.gif "Brick wall"){kind=small}