The Values-Vote Myth

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Brotha
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The Values-Vote Myth

Post by Brotha »

This is a great piece that I completely agree with. It's a really good argument against the ways in which people are trying simplify the election result...he hits it dead on.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/06/opini ... f=login&hp
The Values-Vote Myth
By DAVID BROOKS

Published: November 6, 2004

Every election year, we in the commentariat come up with a story line to explain the result, and the story line has to have two features. First, it has to be completely wrong. Second, it has to reassure liberals that they are morally superior to the people who just defeated them.

In past years, the story line has involved Angry White Males, or Willie Horton-bashing racists. This year, the official story is that throngs of homophobic, Red America values-voters surged to the polls to put George Bush over the top.

This theory certainly flatters liberals, and it is certainly wrong.

Here are the facts. As Andrew Kohut of the Pew Research Center points out, there was no disproportionate surge in the evangelical vote this year. Evangelicals made up the same share of the electorate this year as they did in 2000. There was no increase in the percentage of voters who are pro-life. Sixteen percent of voters said abortions should be illegal in all circumstances. There was no increase in the percentage of voters who say they pray daily.

It's true that Bush did get a few more evangelicals to vote Republican, but Kohut, whose final poll nailed the election result dead-on, reminds us that public opinion on gay issues over all has been moving leftward over the years. Majorities oppose gay marriage, but in the exit polls Tuesday, 25 percent of the voters supported gay marriage and 35 percent of voters supported civil unions. There is a big middle on gay rights issues, as there is on most social issues.

Much of the misinterpretation of this election derives from a poorly worded question in the exit polls. When asked about the issue that most influenced their vote, voters were given the option of saying "moral values." But that phrase can mean anything - or nothing. Who doesn't vote on moral values? If you ask an inept question, you get a misleading result.

The reality is that this was a broad victory for the president. Bush did better this year than he did in 2000 in 45 out of the 50 states. He did better in New York, Connecticut and, amazingly, Massachusetts. That's hardly the Bible Belt. Bush, on the other hand, did not gain significantly in the 11 states with gay marriage referendums.

He won because 53 percent of voters approved of his performance as president. Fifty-eight percent of them trust Bush to fight terrorism. They had roughly equal confidence in Bush and Kerry to handle the economy. Most approved of the decision to go to war in Iraq. Most see it as part of the war on terror.

The fact is that if you think we are safer now, you probably voted for Bush. If you think we are less safe, you probably voted for Kerry. That's policy, not fundamentalism. The upsurge in voters was an upsurge of people with conservative policy views, whether they are religious or not.

The red and blue maps that have been popping up in the papers again this week are certainly striking, but they conceal as much as they reveal. I've spent the past four years traveling to 36 states and writing millions of words trying to understand this values divide, and I can tell you there is no one explanation. It's ridiculous to say, as some liberals have this week, that we are perpetually refighting the Scopes trial, with the metro forces of enlightenment and reason arrayed against the retro forces of dogma and reaction.

In the first place, there is an immense diversity of opinion within regions, towns and families. Second, the values divide is a complex layering of conflicting views about faith, leadership, individualism, American exceptionalism, suburbia, Wal-Mart, decorum, economic opportunity, natural law, manliness, bourgeois virtues and a zillion other issues.

But the same insularity that caused many liberals to lose touch with the rest of the country now causes them to simplify, misunderstand and condescend to the people who voted for Bush. If you want to understand why Democrats keep losing elections, just listen to some coastal and university town liberals talk about how conformist and intolerant people in Red America are. It makes you wonder: why is it that people who are completely closed-minded talk endlessly about how open-minded they are?

What we are seeing is a diverse but stable Republican coalition gradually eclipsing a diverse and stable Democratic coalition. Social issues are important, but they don't come close to telling the whole story. Some of the liberal reaction reminds me of a phrase I came across recently: The rage of the drowning man.
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Post by Jice Virago »

Federal information showed:

20% of all voters were white male evangelicals who made 50k or more a year. Those people are automatic Bush voters, hands down, no arguments. They were well organized and on a mission to stop gay marriage (and be in position to get anti Roe vs Wade supreme court justices in), which they care about unilaterally. No other voting block has nearly the same level of orginization or solidarity. Rove knew this and pushed to get anti-gay legislation on the ballots in key states, to further motivate these people to get to the polls. It was a smart move that paid off big time, as if you divide the jesus vote in half, the end result would have been a landslide dem victory.

The real issue here is that the corresponding standard democratic leaning groups (blacks, gays, and jews) were not equal to the task. They are apethetic about voting, fewer in number, and often no where near as unified as the fundy block. This is their own fault and the ones who did not vote can pretty much eat crow once the bitching begins about Bush's second term policy; they had only to get organized and off their asses if they wanted change. This is also largely the fault of the Dem leadership who expended more effort battling each other during the primaries than they did solidifying their support during the actual election cycle, a bitter lesson that the GOP learned during Dole vs Clinton.

Summary, you cannot deny the huge impact that the Jesus vote had on the outcome. Large segments of people voted solely on morality issues, ignoring everything else. However, you cannot fault them for voting how they wanted, if you are left leaning, either. You cannot expect to win an election if you don't get up off of your ass and vote. The motivation was there, but the Dems own incompetance prevented them from tapping into it.
War is an option whose time has passed. Peace is the only option for the future. At present we occupy a treacherous no-man's-land between peace and war, a time of growing fear that our military might has expanded beyond our capacity to control it and our political differences widened beyond our ability to bridge them. . . .

Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
--RICHARD M. NIXON, "REAL PEACE" (1983)

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."

Dwight Eisenhower
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Post by Neost »

The largest segment of the American population is the baby-boomers. Baby boomers are getting older. As you get older, you tend to get more conservative, even politically.
Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has no heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains."
I believe Bush's victory can be attributed more to a large aging Baby Boomer generation than anything. Those same whacky kids who were smoking dope and protesting the Vietnam war in the late 60's are all grown up and have a completely different value set than they thought they would in their youth.

That could also explain the exit polls being so overwhelmingly wrong. Not only do you have to factor in who responded to the exit polls, you have to think that maybe not everyone wants to admit publicly to voting for the kind of person they fought politically in their youth.

NOTE: The above quote is often attributed to Winston Churchill. Aristide Briand, a past French Prime Minister said it as:
The man who is not a socialist at twenty has no heart, but if he is still a socialist at forty he has no head
But it appears he stole it from Francious Guizot, a French statesmen in the late 1700's who said:
Not to be a republican at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head
Thank you for attending today's irrelevant history lesson.
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Post by Voronwë »

Actually seniors can trend Democrat depending on how much they depend on Medcare and SS for their quality of life.
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Post by Brotha »

Just compare the exit polls of 2000 with the exit polls of 2004, Jice.

2000: http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/result ... polls.html

2004: http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/ ... lls.0.html

The evangelical/born again question (where 23 percent identified themselves as such) wasn't asked in 2000, so you have nothing really to compare that with.

However, how often someone attends church is a pretty good indicator of it. In 2000, "attends church more than weekly" was 14 percent of all the voters. In 2004, it was a whopping 16 percent. People who never attend church went up 1 percent, people who go seldom and monthly stayed the same, and people who go every week actually went down 2. The percentage of protestants, jews, and catholics that turned out to vote in 2004 is almost identical to 2000.

In the 2000 election Bush got 63 percent of the "more than weekly crowd" vs 64 percent in 2004, and made a 1 percent gain in weekly church attendance as well.

Considering that Bush gained in just about every aspect from 2000 (with the exception of the gay community, I wonder why), I don't see how any of these numbers that I quoted seem exceptional in any way. Maybe you could point it out for me?

Edit: And just to tear apart another of your arguments:
Jice Virago wrote:The real issue here is that the corresponding standard democratic leaning groups (blacks, gays, and jews) were not equal to the task.


In 2000, 81 percent of voters were white, 10 percent African-American, and 7 percent hispanic. In 2004, 77 percent were white, 11 percent African-American, and 8 percent hispanic. The percentage of gay/lesbian voters stayed the same. Bush gained in every single one of the minority groups (with the exception of gays), including getting 6 percent more of the Jewish vote. It's not that they didn't turn out...it's that they DID turn out and voted more for Bush.
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Post by Jice Virago »

You are arguing my point:

Those voting blocks are not of one unified mind and will like the fundies are. That 23% figure also happens to be people who fit all three criteria (make > 50k annually, white, evangelical/baptist) and I think we can agree that there are plenty of poor fundies and non white elite who voted for Bush.
War is an option whose time has passed. Peace is the only option for the future. At present we occupy a treacherous no-man's-land between peace and war, a time of growing fear that our military might has expanded beyond our capacity to control it and our political differences widened beyond our ability to bridge them. . . .

Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
--RICHARD M. NIXON, "REAL PEACE" (1983)

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."

Dwight Eisenhower
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Post by Chidoro »

Brotha wrote: including getting 6 percent more of the Jewish vote. It's not that they didn't turn out...it's that they DID turn out and voted more for Bush.
I'm kinda curious as to how many Jewish people you actually think live in this country. Then deduct from that number the Jewsish people residing in Cal, Ill, NY, NJ, CT, Mass, and FL. Just curious because if you think a 6% increase in the Jewish vote for Bush equates to anything outside of those states I just excluded, then you truly are a moron.
Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has no heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains."
Any man who wants to assure our children and our children's children are wading neck deep in a debt that will be due, you should go ahead and remain conservative.
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Post by masteen »

Sen. Jay Billington Bulworth wrote:Until you put down the fried chicken and malt liquor and get out and vote, you're never going to get guys like me out of office.
"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt
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Post by Seebs »

I've had my share of Church's Chicken and have had more than a few MIckey's Big Mouths.

My voting record may be skewed.
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Post by Tenuvil »

Not to be a republican at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head
I'm a Republican over 30 and I always want head. :vv_bj3:

QED! :vv_boggle:
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Post by Brotha »

Jice Virago wrote:You are arguing my point:

Those voting blocks are not of one unified mind and will like the fundies are. That 23% figure also happens to be people who fit all three criteria (make > 50k annually, white, evangelical/baptist) and I think we can agree that there are plenty of poor fundies and non white elite who voted for Bush.
I agree that as a whole those people voted overwhelmingly for Bush, but there was almost no difference in their turn out (percentage wise) or who they voted for than in the 2000 election.
Chidoro wrote:I'm kinda curious as to how many Jewish people you actually think live in this country. Then deduct from that number the Jewsish people residing in Cal, Ill, NY, NJ, CT, Mass, and FL. Just curious because if you think a 6% increase in the Jewish vote for Bush equates to anything outside of those states I just excluded, then you truly are a moron.
I'm kinda curious as to how you gathered that from what I said and whether you know the meaning of the word context or not. The point of my post was that there was NO surge in the evangelical or white vote in 2004- Bush simply persuaded more people to vote for him, including getting more democratic-leaining voters (the Jewish vote as just one example where Bush did much better) than in 2000.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the facts simply don't go along with all of your little theories of "crazy white evangelical racists came out in record numbers to put Bush back into office."
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Post by Rekaar. »

Brotha there are many people that can't accept a loss without claiming the other guy cheated or is morally inferior. It can't just be "shit, we need to change our game plan" it has to be "well, see it's because..."

Classic example of the victim mentality.
Time makes more converts than reason. - Thomas Paine
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Post by Sueven »

Brotha, let me point something out for you.

You claim to be arguing against this position:
Brotha wrote:Sorry to burst your bubble, but the facts simply don't go along with all of your little theories of "crazy white evangelical racists came out in record numbers to put Bush back into office."
I do not believe that anyone here is arguing that position.

Jice's first post on the issue:
Jice wrote:The real issue here is that the corresponding standard democratic leaning groups (blacks, gays, and jews) were not equal to the task. They are apethetic about voting, fewer in number, and often no where near as unified as the fundy block.
If you will notice, this is relatively similar to your point with some semantic differences. You said that all the demographics came out in relatively similar proportion, but that more voters in democratic leaning demographics voted for Bush than did in 2000. Jice is arguing that, while there have been slight shifts that favor republicans in voting turnout by demographic, the real problem is that demographics that lean democrat are not unified and do not vote democratic as consistently as they used to. This is basically the same point.
Brotha wrote:Edit: And just to tear apart another of your arguments:
Come on man, read what's being written. You're so eager to tear down this fanciful liberal notion that you have in your mind that you're unwilling to even determine if anyone believes in it.
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