Frontline: The Choice 2004

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » October 22, 2004, 6:53 pm

As always, Frontline does an extraordinary job.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... 2004/view/

noel · Post by **noel** » October 22, 2004, 7:01 pm

Thanks for posting this.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » October 27, 2004, 12:07 pm

Take some time out of your day and watch this.

/bump

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » October 27, 2004, 12:12 pm

It helped me understand why Kerry is so prone to vote against war actions. He's locked inside his vietnam experience. All of his politics after that point are shaped by it.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » October 27, 2004, 12:18 pm

For 20+ years the entire US military was apperently locked inside that box with Kerry.

All of the Generals in Gulf War I were in Vietnam. All of the Pentagon leadership in the last 20 years or so was as well.

Frontline last night actually had a very interesting perspective on Rumsfeld and his vision for the military that addresses that exact point that you raise Adex - not with specificity to Kerry. But with specificity to the effect that Vietnam had on persons who served in it, and then went on to have responsibilities in our government.

It draws an interesting contrast to those who didn't serve in Vietnam ho comprise our current civilian leadership and the manner in which they approach some of the same issues.

Tenuvil · Post by **Tenuvil** » October 27, 2004, 12:53 pm

Adex_Xeda wrote:It helped me understand why Kerry is so prone to vote against war actions. He's locked inside his vietnam experience. All of his politics after that point are shaped by it.

It's interesting that so many young neocons feel that way.

Having been alive during the Vietnam War, I can tell you that it was a fucking shitstorm that undoubtedly would have turned any rational person against any further conflicts of that nature. And the Iraq conflict is most definitely a conflict of that nature.

Maybe some of you hawkish bastages that ~~enthusiastically~~rabidly support the war should volunteer to serve, and see firsthand what a clusterfuck your spiritual leader has led us into. Maybe then you'd get some perspective.

Sylvos · Post by **Sylvos** » October 27, 2004, 1:38 pm

It's interesting that so many young neocons feel that way.

Really really getting tired of seeing that phrase tossed around. I don't think it means what you think it means.

Traz-KOE · Post by **Traz-KOE** » October 27, 2004, 1:57 pm

Inconceivable!

Tenuvil · Post by **Tenuvil** » October 27, 2004, 2:00 pm

ROFL Traz, you stole my retort

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » October 27, 2004, 5:01 pm

Tenuvil wrote:
Adex_Xeda wrote:It helped me understand why Kerry is so prone to vote against war actions. He's locked inside his vietnam experience. All of his politics after that point are shaped by it.
It's interesting that so many young neocons feel that way.

Having been alive during the Vietnam War, I can tell you that it was a fucking shitstorm that undoubtedly would have turned any rational person against any further conflicts of that nature. And the Iraq conflict is most definitely a conflict of that nature.

Maybe some of you hawkish bastages that ~~enthusiastically~~rabidly support the war should volunteer to serve, and see firsthand what a clusterfuck your spiritual leader has led us into. Maybe then you'd get some perspective.

Neoconservatism: An intellectual and political movement in favor of political, economic, and social conservatism that arose in opposition to the perceived liberalism of the 1960s.

My stance on gay rights alone would disqualify me from this catagory.

If you check my old VVault posts you'll also find that I was not a big fan of this Iraq thing while we were busy with Afganistan.

All and all there was the threat of a nuclear terrorist. That threat alone was just cause to act in Iraq.

Does my opinion carry less weight than someone drafted to serve in vietnam? Yes.

I simply one voice in a crowd. I speak my opinion because I enjoy the liberty to do so. If you feel that I should say nothing of war because I didn't serve in vietnam then skip over my posts. I understand.

In regards to Kerry I stand by my words. His vietnam experience has dramatically shaped his politics. His vietnam experience was his ticket into politics. His vietnam experience is his main selling point today as he seeks the big office. When before I did not understand why he was so indecisive in matters of war, I do now thanks to that program.

Tenuvil · Post by **Tenuvil** » October 27, 2004, 6:15 pm

Adex_Xeda wrote:
Tenuvil wrote:
Adex_Xeda wrote:It helped me understand why Kerry is so prone to vote against war actions. He's locked inside his vietnam experience. All of his politics after that point are shaped by it.
It's interesting that so many young neocons feel that way.

Having been alive during the Vietnam War, I can tell you that it was a fucking shitstorm that undoubtedly would have turned any rational person against any further conflicts of that nature. And the Iraq conflict is most definitely a conflict of that nature.

Maybe some of you hawkish bastages that ~~enthusiastically~~rabidly support the war should volunteer to serve, and see firsthand what a clusterfuck your spiritual leader has led us into. Maybe then you'd get some perspective.
Neoconservatism: An intellectual and political movement in favor of political, economic, and social conservatism that arose in opposition to the perceived liberalism of the 1960s.

My stance on gay rights alone would disqualify me from this catagory.

If you check my old VVault posts you'll also find that I was not a big fan of this Iraq thing while we were busy with Afganistan.

All and all there was the threat of a nuclear terrorist. That threat alone was just cause to act in Iraq.

Does my opinion carry less weight than someone drafted to serve in vietnam? Yes.

I simply one voice in a crowd. I speak my opinion because I enjoy the liberty to do so. If you feel that I should say nothing of war because I didn't serve in vietnam then skip over my posts. I understand.

In regards to Kerry I stand by my words. His vietnam experience has dramatically shaped his politics. His vietnam experience was his ticket into politics. His vietnam experience is his main selling point today as he seeks the big office. When before I did not understand why he was so indecisive in matters of war, I do now thanks to that program.

In all honesty Adex, you have shown that you can exhibit critical reasoning skills, you are thoughtful and eloquent, and you will freely and unapologetically admit you were wrong if evidence proves that out. These characteristics in and of themselves place you head and shoulders beyond your <<insert synonym for neocon here>> brethren.

Skip your posts? Quite the contrary, I'm glad you started posting again