Polls on how the world view the US.

[Hesten]

Yes, i know we all agree that polls cant be trusted due to them being inaccurate, but try to take a look at this, polls on how the world view the US.
Notice that the opinions from a lot of these polls are from the people that are your allies, and had faith in the US before Bush came to power.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections20 ... 68,00.html


Heres some highlights:

The 10-country poll suggests that rarely has an American administration faced such isolation and lack of public support amongst its closest allies.

A majority in Britain also believe that US democracy is no longer a model for others.

But perhaps a more startling finding from the Guardian/ICM poll is that a majority of British voters - 51% - say that they believe that American culture is threatening our own culture.

[miir]

Geee, I wonder if the Canadian and France polls weighted those results much... lol

[Dregor Thule]

This is a fear shared by the Canadians, Mexicans and South Koreans, but it is more usually associated with the French than the British. Perhaps the endless television reruns of Friends and the Simpsons are beginning to take their toll.

Doh! Could that BE any more preposterous?

[Marbus]

Interesting article but I don't think it told most of us any more than we already knew. A friend and work just now said, "so you would let other countries tell us what president to elect?" I said "Nope." This plays into 1 of those many factors, an important one, but not important enough to swing my vote one way or the other. I just think it’s important for us, as Americans, to lead the world in the 21st Century not dominate it. Right now we are failing on both accounts, I love my country too much let that continue... If we are proud of our culture and beleive in it then we should be able to show that leadership to the world. If they want to follow they will, that is difference between a leader and a bully...

Marb

[Atokal]

ROFL, if the paper they use as the Canadian Representative is any indication of the other newspapers who participated this little poll is a fucking joke.

La Presse as far as I can tell is a french newspaper based in Montreal Quebec. The Quebecers represent themselves in terms of opinion on the American election, very seldom does the french view in Canada represent the majority of Canadian views. English results may have been similiar but it is irresponsible to say that a Quebec newspaper speaks for Canada.
Also making the statement that America is threatening Canada's Culture is stupid as well. Considering that Quebecers feel that anything English is threatening their culture this includes english speaking Canada.

They might just as well have quoted polls run by the Taliban Tribune as representing every opinion in Afghanistan.

[miir]

Err wow, I agree with everything Toker just said.

[Hesten]

Also making the statement that America is threatening Canada's Culture is stupid as well. Considering that Quebecers feel that anything English is threatening their culture this includes english speaking Canada.

They might just as well have quoted polls run by the Taliban Tribune as representing every opinion in Afghanistan.

Reading > Atokal.

But perhaps a more startling finding from the Guardian/ICM poll is that a majority of British voters - 51% - say that they believe that American culture is threatening our own culture.

Thats British, not canadian.

But yea, im sure that all the polls for ALL the countries are biased agains america and horrible incorrect....or maybe it COULD be that the US totally trashed all international reputation.l

[Fat]

English is threatening their culture! Je parle joual?

-Alfan

[miir]

Reading > Hesten

But perhaps a more startling finding from the Guardian/ICM poll is that a majority of British voters - 51% - say that they believe that American culture is threatening our own culture.

This is a fear shared by the Canadians, Mexicans and South Koreans, but it is more usually associated with the French than the British.

[Animalor]

But perhaps a more startling finding from the Guardian/ICM poll is that a majority of British voters - 51% - say that they believe that American culture is threatening our own culture.

It's funny that they should right that.

My wife was watching TV last night and they premiered a french version of "The Simple Life". Horrible country music translated and everything.

Quebecers aren't force fed american culture. They wholely embrace it in all it's licensed, Quebec produced, translated glory.

Had a huge case of the when this started. Even my wife(which I am usually more than critical about her tv watching choices) thought this was stupid and changed the channel.

[Markulas]

when was the last time you asked yourself before voting: "Shit, now how does Germany want me to vote?"

but yes i completely understand that having good diplomatic relations with our international community is actually one thing our president can help on.

[Zaelath]

No, it's not that we want to tell you how to vote, it's just that ~75% of the rest of the world will think you're a tit if you vote for Bush.

[Boogahz]

No, it's not that we want to tell you how to vote, it's just that ~75% of the rest of the world will think you're a tit if you vote for Bush.

A vote for Bush is a vote for tits?

[Markulas]

lol then technically wouldn't you need to cast two votes for Bush in order to get a full set of tits?

[Kelshara]

lol then technically wouldn't you need to cast two votes for Bush in order to get a full set of tits?

That will only be done in Florida!

[Atokal]

Reading > Hesten

But perhaps a more startling finding from the Guardian/ICM poll is that a majority of British voters - 51% - say that they believe that American culture is threatening our own culture.

This is a fear shared by the Canadians, Mexicans and South Koreans, but it is more usually associated with the French than the British.

What Miir said

[Akaran_D]

Vote tits - get a real boobie in the whitehouse.

(I'm sorry)

[Hesten]

Vote tits - get a real boobie in the whitehouse.

(I'm sorry)

Hehe, why not, we got an ass there at the moment anyway, cant hurt to change body parts

[Akaran_D]

Yeah, I'm tired of being led by a Dick.

[Hesten]

Yeah, I'm tired of being led by a Dick.

ROFL

[Forthe]

The papers conducted polls, this wasn't some editorial done in those specific papers. If you want to discredit La Presse's poll then get some info on their polling, discrediting a poll based purely on the paper being based in quebec is just dumbass bullshit.

And FFS do not read this as a defense of quebec, it certainly is not.

As for the polls, the whole article seems pointless. It just states the obvious. The exception being Russia but that is easily understood.

I am interested if our US based posters have changed their travel habits over the last 3 years? The world today is a much more hostile place, and even dangerous, for americans.

[Akaran_D]

I don't travel.
Not for a lack of wanting, but for a lack of funding.

[Lohrno]

I am interested if our US based posters have changed their travel habits over the last 3 years? The world today is a much more hostile place, and even dangerous, for americans.

Nah I haven't. I've been to France a couple times. Recently, it could be my imagination, but it seems they're a little bit less inclined to speak English. Sorry, I don't speak French. A little bit of hand gestures and writing will usually get you by. Hotels of course always speak english. I've also been to Cancun, and I sensed no hostility there. I understand that I was going to mostly tourist places that want your money.

Maybe it also helps that I don't sound American for some reason. It's kind of weird, people here always ask me "Where are you from?" My answer is usually "New Jersey." Then they usually say "No, originally?" I was born in Modesto, CA. I may have picked up some accent though I suppose.

-=Lohrno

[Sirton]

I am interested if our US based posters have changed their travel habits over the last 3 years? The world today is a much more hostile place, and even dangerous, for americans.

Forthe

I've slowed down on traveling some, but that was mainly due to school....Still traveled around Europe, Africa and Mexico though. May head to the Egypt and the middle east in the next couple of months, but its looking less and less likely, due to setting up my clinic soon. I noticed in my travel's the papers to be Bush hating, but the people in general friendly.

[Sueven]

I don't have any money. The last time I left the country was summer 2002. I went to Belize. Everyone I spoke to was very friendly.

None of my friends and family members have changed their travel plans whatsoever. In fact, I know a good deal of people who are planning on spending a significant amount of time (months +) out of the country.

I would have no apprehension about leaving the country. If people treat me poorly because I'm an American, I'll learn from it.

[Aruman]

Let them fix their own problems before worrying about ours is what I say.

I travelled quite a bit when I was in the military, and I can tell you without a doubt that people in various countries hated Americans and the United States long before George W. Bush was in office.

You can thank tourists for that in some cases.

[Sylvus]

So you're claiming that GWB's actions have not had any effect on adding to the global dislike of the United States?

[miir]

So you're claiming that GWB's actions have not had any effect on adding to the global dislike of the United States?

It certainly hasn't helped matters.

[Kelshara]

Holy crap I agree partly with an Aruman post. American tourists are quite a bit to blame for some of the anti-American feelings. Add to that quite a few people who really dislike the extreme comercialism that is being exported from the US and Hollywood, and a good dose of people laughing at Bush.. mix it all together and you got today's situation.

Bush has certainly not helped the matter however.

[Rekaar.]

So you're claiming that GWB's actions have not had any effect on adding to the global dislike of the United States?

I'd say of course our actions have effected the perceptions of the world. It was unpopular to go after Iraq. Because it was unpopular doesn't mean Kyoukan should be running the country now, so she can fix all of our PR issues. Honestly I'd contend the absolute garbage being said about the President (in his own country) finds a welcome resonance among other countries whose populace are jealous of America's success. Ted Kennedy, Howard Dean, Al Gore, Michael Moore and more saying the things they did contributed greatly to the fall of the US in the world's eyes.

That said, I could care less what the masses of any nation think of us. The only reason they have an opinion about us at all is because they have to affix the blame for their shitty stations in life on something. It's no surprise that labor/democratic party type groups are the ones who internationally hold the same ill opinion of the President. Or as I like to think of them, the "blame someone else and give me something for nothing" parties.

[Xzion]

So you're claiming that GWB's actions have not had any effect on adding to the global dislike of the United States?

I'd say of course our actions have effected the perceptions of the world. It was unpopular to go after Iraq. Because it was unpopular doesn't mean Kyoukan should be running the country now, so she can fix all of our PR issues. Honestly I'd contend the absolute garbage being said about the President (in his own country) finds a welcome resonance among other countries whose populace are jealous of America's success. Ted Kennedy, Howard Dean, Al Gore, Michael Moore and more saying the things they did contributed greatly to the fall of the US in the world's eyes.

That said, I could care less what the masses of any nation think of us. The only reason they have an opinion about us at all is because they have to affix the blame for their shitty stations in life on something. It's no surprise that labor/democratic party type groups are the ones who internationally hold the same ill opinion of the President. Or as I like to think of them, the "blame someone else and give me something for nothing" parties.

You have the stereotypical attitude of a neocon, your essentially saying
"fuck what the world thinks, fuck the world hell they hate us because there jealous (i love when people use that excuse, most people in europe and Canada are NOT JELOUS of the U.S), bush rules and if you talk bad about our president (1st amendment) then your an un-american osama loving basterd"
That kind of attitude is why people dislike America and why there are terrorist willing to end there lives (out of jealousy ) to change our fundamental way of life and hopefully instill fear and take away some of our freedoms as bush has so conveniently allowed with the patriot act and trying to make Americans fear change.

[Xzion]

Let them fix their own problems before worrying about ours is what I say.

I travelled quite a bit when I was in the military, and I can tell you without a doubt that people in various countries hated Americans and the United States long before George W. Bush was in office.

You can thank tourists for that in some cases.

Sure we have always been disliked, but with bush in office that dislike as excelated at least 2 or 3 times over, go to western europe right now and turn on a T.V.
Or walk down the street and say your american, you'll most get a scowl and most likely a speech on how bush is such a moron

Back in the clinton ages all i can remember were a few friendly scandanavian-style cowboy jokes
and it works out great now because Bush is the embodiment of all the stereotypical American mannerisms
Stupid
Ignorant
Uncultured
Arrogant
Close-minded

[Kelshara]

Honestly I'd contend the absolute garbage being said about the President (in his own country) finds a welcome resonance among other countries whose populace are jealous of America's success.

Just wondering.. why would most of Europe be jealous of the US? They are hardly any behind in living standards etc. Quite the contrary.

The only reason they have an opinion about us at all is because they have to affix the blame for their shitty stations in life on something.

Uh right. See above.

Your attitude here is stereotypical of why Americans are disliked.

[Aruman]

Sure we have always been disliked, but with bush in office that dislike as excelated at least 2 or 3 times over, go to western europe right now and turn on a T.V.
Or walk down the street and say your american, you'll most get a scowl and most likely a speech on how bush is such a moron

So Xzion, what do you have to say about those people in other countries who treat/assume all Americans are just like the leader of the United States or just flat out hate Americans on GP?

Would you think they were intelligent? Or just lemmings?

[Xzion]

Sure we have always been disliked, but with bush in office that dislike as excelated at least 2 or 3 times over, go to western europe right now and turn on a T.V.
Or walk down the street and say your american, you'll most get a scowl and most likely a speech on how bush is such a moron

So Xzion, what do you have to say about those people in other countries who treat/assume all Americans are just like the leader of the United States or just flat out hate Americans on GP?

Would you think they were intelligent? Or just lemmings?

I dont appreciate it obviously, but then again they act on the fact that most of there tourist hold some of these negative stereotypes. But then again, being classified as an American you will be assumed to be an idiot until you can prove yourself otherwise, not the other way around

Anyone that just flat out hates americans is a hypocrite and just as bad or worse then the stereotypes of the neocon cowboys

[Rekaar.]

You blast me for being stereotypical, yet you're (note spelling) the poster child for the international liberal. Check it out, I can feel better about my views by labeling yours too!

Quoting the Guardian is a nice way of labeling yourself, though.

[Aruman]

I dont appreciate it obviously, but then again they act on the fact that most of there tourist hold some of these negative stereotypes. But then again, being classified as an American you will be assumed to be an idiot until you can prove yourself otherwise, not the other way around

Anyone that just flat out hates americans is a hypocrite and just as bad or worse then the stereotypes of the neocon cowboys

This is why what other nationalities think of Americans or the President doesn't mean squat to me. I know that the perception of Americans is skewed because of a minority of Americans.

It's easy to remember the idiots and easier to forget the people who aren't, because they don't do things that tick people off in general, and are respectful of other cultures. There are jackass Americans, just as there are jackass French, Germans, Italians, Canadians, Egyptians, and so on...

The only nationality I can truly say I have a bad impression of is the French. Nearly every French person I encountered were snooty and disdainful of anything not French. Very few were respectful of cultural differences. Maybe I just ran into the anti-American lemmings... who knows.

[Lohrno]

The French people who come here are different from the ones in France. If that's what you base your judgement on, I'd ask that you hold it off until talking with some in France. Most of the people I've actually talked to there were pretty cool.

-=Lohrno

[Zaelath]

So you're claiming that GWB's actions have not had any effect on adding to the global dislike of the United States?

I'd say of course our actions have effected the perceptions of the world. It was unpopular to go after Iraq. Because it was unpopular doesn't mean Kyoukan should be running the country now, so she can fix all of our PR issues. Honestly I'd contend the absolute garbage being said about the President (in his own country) finds a welcome resonance among other countries whose populace are jealous of America's success.

When will you get it through your head that people don't dislike America because they're "jealous of your success"? I've lived in the US and I've lived in Australia, and there's no way on earth I'm jealous of anything about the US, but I still hate Dubya and his foreign policy w/ a passion.

Get over yourselves already.

[kyoukan]

yeah rekaar we are jealous of your liberties too.

[Aruman]

The French people who come here are different from the ones in France. If that's what you base your judgement on, I'd ask that you hold it off until talking with some in France. Most of the people I've actually talked to there were pretty cool.

-=Lohrno

What do you think I was talking about?

I'm not talking about French people here in the US.

[Xzion]

The French people who come here are different from the ones in France. If that's what you base your judgement on, I'd ask that you hold it off until talking with some in France. Most of the people I've actually talked to there were pretty cool.

-=Lohrno

What do you think I was talking about?

I'm not talking about French people here in the US.

Your perception of the french here is equal to a euro perception of americans there, who would rather go to mcdonalds or put some hot sauce on there fine cuisine then experiance culture etc etc

[Aruman]

The French people who come here are different from the ones in France. If that's what you base your judgement on, I'd ask that you hold it off until talking with some in France. Most of the people I've actually talked to there were pretty cool.

-=Lohrno

What do you think I was talking about?

I'm not talking about French people here in the US.

Your perception of the french here is equal to a euro perception of americans there, who would rather go to mcdonalds or put some hot sauce on there fine cuisine then experiance culture etc etc

I figured the people here would figure out I was talking about the French people in France without having to explicitly say so.

[Sylvus]

Honestly I'd contend the absolute garbage being said about the President (in his own country) finds a welcome resonance among other countries whose populace are jealous of America's success. Ted Kennedy, Howard Dean, Al Gore, Michael Moore and more saying the things they did contributed greatly to the fall of the US in the world's eyes.

I don't entirely disagree with that statement's truth, but I'd ask you why they (the specific people you mentioned, as well as the general populace who are badmouthing Bush) are saying what they are saying? Sure the Democrats often try to bring to light the foibles of the opposing party's guy, as do the Republicans, but it seems a bit more venomous this time around, would you agree? Never in the past have I seen a filmmaker distribute a documentary (please don't start a diatribe about how it isn't a documentary) about a sitting President, particularly a documentary that broke all box-office records for its genre. It's not simply a partisan issue, it is because they think he's doing an exceptionally bad job.

I talk a lot of shit about Bush and it has absolutely nothing to do with me being anti-republican. In fact, I may sound like a total Democrat this election but I have never in my life supported a Democratic candidate, in the past it has been Republican or Perot every time. It has to do with me worrying for the first time in my life that the President is hurting our country.

[Rekaar.]

Well to answer you questions I can offer only my own speculations. I think it's a combination of several factors. First, ask yourself just what platform a challenger can run on in time of war?

He has to influence the 10-15% of the population that isn't die-hard one way or another. In war, the only real way to defeat the incumbent is to claim the war is going badly (something Kerry has a lot of historical experience with). You can't run on jobs, or the economy, or health care in time of war because those are all secondary issues to an undecided, but socialist "we'll take care of you no matter what" policies are the staple of the Democratic Party. Left with their mainstay policies taking a back seat, the only avenue of attack left is the war itself. Admittedly the decision to go into Iraq was and still is unpopular. That makes it easier to attack.

Secondly, the Dems have been out of power for nearing a generation. Congress will remain Republican so you can count on Republican policies still getting to the forefront regardless of who wins the Presidency. If the Dems lose this election as big as they could, we may well see a splinter party or a vast change of direction to its track. Many things could contribute to that including the evolution process of labor unions and a re-emergence of entrepreneurialism. How probable is this? Again, pure speculation any way you slice it.

In short, they're desperate to win. When you're fighting for your life you get dirty.

And you threw in foible like a champ!

[Sylvus]

Well, the war is going badly. We may disagree on the level to which it is going badly, but it certainly is not going as well as people initially predicted. Even members of the current administration have said as much.

I'm not sure that I would totally agree that you can't run on jobs or the economy to defeat a wartime president, to my knowledge (and remember my entire adult life has been since Clinton took power so I could be mixing up my facts) the economy and jobs haven't ever been such an issue during a war.

As far as your claims of them fighting dirty, I'd say the edge in that battle has gone to the Republicans so far. Regardless of what happens, it'll be an interesting couple weeks. Good luck to your guy.

[noel]

I talk a lot of shit about Bush and it has absolutely nothing to do with me being anti-republican. In fact, I may sound like a total Democrat this election but I have never in my life supported a Democratic candidate, in the past it has been Republican or Perot every time. It has to do with me worrying for the first time in my life that the President is hurting our country.

This is exactly how I feel as well.

[Sylvos]

I talk a lot of shit about Bush and it has absolutely nothing to do with me being anti-republican. In fact, I may sound like a total Democrat this election but I have never in my life supported a Democratic candidate, in the past it has been Republican or Perot every time. It has to do with me worrying for the first time in my life that the President is hurting our country.

This is exactly how I feel as well.

Mindless Liberal Drone!

[Marbus]

You guys are crackin' me up <slaps knee>

[Rekaar.]

Well, the war is going badly. We may disagree on the level to which it is going badly, but it certainly is not going as well as people initially predicted. Even members of the current administration have said as much.

Not going as well as predicted != losing/bad

This is the most successful war in our history on many levels. None of which get talked about in the mass media. It's really about what discussion points and facts you want to focus on vs the ones you want to omit, as it is with all these issues. I do my best to look at things as if I were President, and I find myself agreeing with the leadership of Bush over the continual criticism of Kerry. Plus all these crazy rumors being fabricated about the draft, voter suppression, stealing social security etc is all very distasteful to me. They're obviously unsubstantiated and I have no idea why they can get away with it.