Michael Moore on Leno tonight..

[Animalor]

Now that his pre-election night pay-pre-view showing of F9/11 doesn't seem like it's gonna happen(On-Demand pulling out post-contract signing), Moore called Sinclair on their "We're unbiased" statement and offered them F9/11 for FREE if their show it before the election like they're doing the anti-Kerry documentary.

Since the FCC has given Sinclair the go-ahead, showing F9/11 shouldn't be a problem either.

Gonna be interesting to see if this goes anywhere.

[Winnow]

Moore really loves himself. I'll give him that. Dude already has taken the coin from liberals and now he just wants the spotlight.

Moore = more obscure than Gore after Nov 2nd.

[Dregor Thule]

Is that because Bush will lose and Moores target will be out of the spotlight as well?

[Rivera Bladestrike]

I like his counteroffer of giving his movie for a free showing on sinclair, if they don't take it its so obvious that they're biased... Hell, show a propaganda show for both candidates!

[Kylere]

I think the problem with showing F911 is that it is NOT a documentary and is factually inaccurate.

[Marbus]

Kylere that is the point, the other isn't factual either, it's just a doctored, IF NOT MORE, than F911...

Marb

[Rekaar.]

So you've seen it then, to be able to pass such final judgment? Otherwise you sound stupid for labeling something out of ignorance =/

[Kelshara]

So you've seen it then, to be able to pass such final judgment? Otherwise you sound stupid for labeling something out of ignorance =/

Oh the irony of that comment considering the neocons cried for months about F9/11 without ever watching it.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Now that his pre-election night pay-pre-view showing of F9/11 doesn't seem like it's gonna happen(On-Demand pulling out post-contract signing), Moore called Sinclair on their "We're unbiased" statement and offered them F9/11 for FREE if their show it before the election like they're doing the anti-Kerry documentary.

Since the FCC has given Sinclair the go-ahead, showing F9/11 shouldn't be a problem either.

Gonna be interesting to see if this goes anywhere.

Watch Fahrenhype 911. Then you can see all the lies Moore has in his "documentary".

[Kylere]

I have seen F911, I knew it would be BS priot, but saw it anyways. Based on Moores never having made a factual movie yet it was a safe bet for the right wing to make.

Moore is so far left he thinks he is the thinnest man in his hometown of Davison, Michigan.

[Fairweather Pure]

Please point out the lies in F9/11.

[Keverian FireCry]

Moore is so far left he thinks he is the thinnest man in his hometown of Davison, Michigan.

That was called a fucking joke, he's a comedian also, so he makes his movies funny.

[Lynks]

Moore is so far left he thinks he is the thinnest man in his hometown of Davison, Michigan.

Holy shit, enough already, we get the fucking picture. Moore is not from Flint. How many times do you have to posts the same shit over and over.

[Dregor Thule]

Please point out the lies in F9/11.

He can't. He hasn't seen it.

[Dregor Thule]

Moore is so far left he thinks he is the thinnest man in his hometown of Davison, Michigan.

Holy shit, enough already, we get the fucking picture. Moore is not from Flint. How many times do you have to posts the same shit over and over.

I pity the person that gets stuck with the job of counting.

[Markulas]

Now I don't like Moore as much as the next neocon, but it's hard to say that things 20 or 30 minutes away from his hometown didn't effect him growing up.

[Kylere]

Please point out the lies in F9/11.

http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysi ... it-911.htm

Oh yeah, his spot at the mall, NOT FILMED IN FLINT.

Next?

[Kelshara]

Who gives a shit if it was filmed in Flint. Who gives a shit about Flint. It is a place that should be wiped out from the face of the Earth with all it's inhabitants.

[Sionistic]

you guys may have not seen it, but kyl's left eye just bursted from rage

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Please point out the lies in F9/11.

Do the research.

http://www.fahrenhype911.com/

[Kelshara]

Ah but since you two are whining so much about it we expect you to have seen it and to tell us yourself. Not just give us a link to obviously biased pages.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Ah but since you two are whining so much about it we expect you to have seen it and to tell us yourself. Not just give us a link to obviously biased pages.

I have seen it. Watch it for yourself and educate yourself. You are obviously afraid to hear the truth because believing in the negative stories you have heard I guess make you happier.

[Kelshara]

Ok this time you baffle me. The people who talk negatively about it (and who are also the people who bring up F9/11 99% of the time I might add) are people like you. And considering I'd take the word of a cow over you any day, how would I believe in negative stories? Not to mention, since you call F9/11 nothing but lies why should I watch it to hear the truth? Why would I be affraid of the truth?

I have no interest in seeing F9/11. I also have zero interest in bringing it up in every other thread here like you and your comrades in stupidity do. And if anyone is affraid of the truth it is narrowminded blind neocons with their head up Bush' ass like yourself.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

So, you have no interest in learnign why people like me are disgusted that people like Moore can brainwash so many people with his lies. The biggest mistake one could make is just saying that Moore is a joke and noone would believe his shit. People do believe his lies. It is frightening the power and control Moore and much of the media have over the masses.

[Kelshara]

You avoid everything I said. What a surprise. And here is a clue for you: Most non-neocons dislike Moore. Including me. However we also dislike neocon versions of Moore, which you and others seem not to do.

[Moonwynd]

Is there a prize for using the word "neocon" a world record time in a thread?

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

You avoid everything I said. What a surprise. And here is a clue for you: Most non-neocons dislike Moore. Including me. However we also dislike neocon versions of Moore, which you and others seem not to do.

Here's a fucking clue for you. Moore's lies are very similar to your everyday opinions. Watch the movie. Enlighten your small little close minded brain.

[Animalor]

People on the left will swallow that Moore feeds em, people on the right will swallow what Sinclair broadcasts.

If Sinclair can broadcast a 2 hour movie filled with half-truthes about Kerry, then they should be obligated to play a 2 hour movie filled with half-truthes about Bush.

[Kelshara]

You avoid everything I said. What a surprise. And here is a clue for you: Most non-neocons dislike Moore. Including me. However we also dislike neocon versions of Moore, which you and others seem not to do.

Here's a fucking clue for you. Moore's lies are very similar to your everyday opinions. Watch the movie. Enlighten your small little close minded brain.

Then you obviously haven't read a single one of my posts, which doesn't surprise me whatsoever. Stop taking it up the ass from the Republicans Midnyte. They wont accept a loser like yourself into their Rich Man Club.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

You avoid everything I said. What a surprise. And here is a clue for you: Most non-neocons dislike Moore. Including me. However we also dislike neocon versions of Moore, which you and others seem not to do.

Here's a fucking clue for you. Moore's lies are very similar to your everyday opinions. Watch the movie. Enlighten your small little close minded brain.

Then you obviously haven't read a single one of my posts, which doesn't surprise me whatsoever. Stop taking it up the ass from the Republicans Midnyte. They wont accept a loser like yourself into their Rich Man Club.

You're a sad pathetic creature. Good luck shielding yourself from the truth your whole life.

[Kelshara]

The truth? Let me see what your kind are calling truths these days..

- Mission accomplished. Remember that one?
- Iraq had WMDs
- Iraq was an immediate threat
- Iraq was closely tied to terrorists
- Iraq is connected to 9/11
- We are winning the war on terror

6 quick ones, would give you more but unfortunately I don't have the time right now.

[Rekaar.]

All 6 are true, how exactly did that help your case? If you believe conclusively that none of those are true, then you just aren't current with the facts.

[Show]

Yes, all 6 can be substantiated, depending on the information you choose to include or omit, to support either side's case.

[Rekaar.]

Please point out the lies in F9/11.

http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysi ... it-911.htm

Oh yeah, his spot at the mall, NOT FILMED IN FLINT.

Next?

thought this was already covered, I do remember voro not liking it due to a lack of peer review or something!

Quite obviously, there are many patriotic Americans who oppose George Bush and who think the Iraq War was a mistake. But Moore's deceitful movie offers nothing constructive to help people form their opinions. To use lies and frauds to manipulate people is contrary to the very essence of democracy, which requires people to make rational decisions based on truthful information. It's wrong when a President lies. It's wrong when a talk radio host lies. And it's wrong when a film-maker lies.

[Lohrno]

[Show]

Yes, all 6 can be substantiated, depending on the information you choose to include or omit, to support either side's case.

Actually all 6 of those can be easily disproven.

Now then, on to Moore. Don't you find him annoying? I mean his style (well actually like mine sometimes I have to admit ) is like the ranting guy in the bar. I respect him for like one or two things (like encouraging people to pirate his movie. ) but I just can't listen to him even though he's fighting on the same side so to speak. He's like a liberal Rush Limbaugh or something.

Do yourselves a favor and pick up an Al Franken book instead.

-=Lohrno

[Rekaar.]

If you believe conclusively that none of those are true, then you just aren't current with the facts.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Do yourselves a favor and pick up an Al Franken book instead.

-=Lohrno

Wow. I hope that was a joke.

[Lohrno]

If you believe conclusively that none of those are true, then you just aren't current with the facts.

Nice.

Well, let's just put it this way: The Bush admin. has admitted these past weeks that most of those are not true. THEY are saying that Iraq didn't have ties to Al Qaeda, WMDs... The evidence never really pointed to that anyways. Now the press releases out of their admin are not necessarily the most accurate info, but since they're willing to admit they're wrong I think it shows something. They usually don't say we fucked up unless they absolutely have to.

So there goes:

- Iraq had WMDs
- Iraq was an immediate threat
- Iraq was closely tied to terrorists
- Iraq is connected to 9/11


The claims that we are winning the war on terror are also not founded. ABC apparently did a test and smuggled non-weapons grade Uranium into the US through several ports. So our security is not great. Attacks and allied death tolls in Iraq have been steadily increasing. This is a fact. So we're not even winning the war on terror over there.

There goes:

-We are winning the war on terror.


Oh yeah and Mission accomplished, see above.

-=Lohrno

[kyoukan]

Do yourselves a favor and pick up an Al Franken book instead.

-=Lohrno

Wow. I hope that was a joke.

lol, now are you going to lie again and claim you read that?

[Aruman]

There goes:
-We are winning the war on terror.

Oh yeah and Mission accomplished, see above.

-=Lohrno

We sure aren't losing... but this isn't going to be a short term thing.

[Lohrno]

There goes:
-We are winning the war on terror.

Oh yeah and Mission accomplished, see above.

-=Lohrno

We sure aren't losing... but this isn't going to be a short term thing.

...

Our death tolls are going up, not down. Usually that is not
considered winning. Oh by the way, how many have we created?

-=Lohrno

[Kelshara]

All 6 are true, how exactly did that help your case? If you believe conclusively that none of those are true, then you just aren't current with the facts.

Ok that made me laugh. Thanks for being nothing but a parrot without a single thought or conclusion made up on your own. Should have known that you wouldn't put up a single proof against my statements.

[Winnow]

...

Our death tolls are going up, not down. Usually that is not
considered winning. Oh by the way, how many have we created?

-=Lohrno

Yes you idiot. Every war was won with zero casualties and in one day.

You know, the Patriots won their 20th straight game today...but they did give up 20 points. They had points scored against them!

I know you must whine by default as a liberal but try a little harder to hide that you really don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

[Kelshara]

You will never win the war on terror the way you fight it. Ever. It's simply not possible. And while you try to, you only create a haven for recruitment and raise the risk of further terror attacks on Americans.

But oh wait.. if a Liberal has to whine then I guess a Republican has to not give a shit about Americans dying. It all makes sense now.

[Lohrno]

You know, the Patriots won their 20th straight game today...but they did give up 20 points. They had points scored against them!

I know you must whine by default as a liberal but try a little harder to hide that you really don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Ahhh the grand old Veeshan tradition of cursing when you don't have a better argument.

So tell me, we've captured what? 80 or so Al Qaeda members correct?

Now Iraq is a big country, and we have pissed off a lot of them with our carelessness. Every time a bomb hits a school or church or whatever by accident, how many terrorists do you think are created? Every time someone's sister gets shot...You have to realize that every gross error we are making is creating terrorists. Going into Iraq in the first place with such international defiance probably swelled Al Qaeda's ranks.

Now just about every day you hear about car bombs there. Not surprising. So if we're fighting a war on 'Terror' and Terrorism and Terrorists are increasing, who is winning?

[Show]

Terror

Are you disputing any of this?

-=Lohrno

[Rekaar.]

You know, the Patriots won their 20th straight game today...but they did give up 20 points. They had points scored against them!

I know you must whine by default as a liberal but try a little harder to hide that you really don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Ahhh the grand old Veeshan tradition of cursing when you don't have a better argument.

So tell me, we've captured what? 80 or so Al Qaeda members correct?

Now Iraq is a big country, and we have pissed off a lot of them with our carelessness. Every time a bomb hits a school or church or whatever by accident, how many terrorists do you think are created? Every time someone's sister gets shot...You have to realize that every gross error we are making is creating terrorists. Going into Iraq in the first place with such international defiance probably swelled Al Qaeda's ranks.

Now just about every day you hear about car bombs there. Not surprising. So if we're fighting a war on 'Terror' and Terrorism and Terrorists are increasing, who is winning?

[Show]

Terror

Are you disputing any of this?

-=Lohrno

I'm disputing that you have any grasp of reality. Granted in your view, you're saying the same thing about me and we may just have to be content with thinking each other the crazy one.

These same things happen in every conflict. Hell it happens in domestic issues. Look at how badly some liberals hate GW, and republicans by association.

As to the matter at hand, we never hear how many of the enemy we are killing - only our own death toll. We have no interest in capturing grunts. I'm frankly too lazy to dispute directly each of your points. I doubt the effort would prove fruitful in the end because you and I both know your comfort is derived from the derision you hold for the President. Fine, have at it. Recognize that you aren't an expert on international terrorism and it's machinations, nor are you able to offer any conclusive evidence to suggest any of my claims are false.

Terror only wins if we do what it wants. Ask yourselves what they're trying to influence with their beheadings and bombings. Then ask yourself why you agree with them.

[Sirton]

I know this post isn't about this thread, but something irks me while reading some post in it....

Loosing the war on terror?


I tell you even if you hate Bush...If he is defeated in the election it will also be a defeat in one part of the war on terror. It will be celebrated by them and even more so than Spain elections were, if it happened. They will use it to increase there recruiting and to show how week the West is.


Think about loosing the war on terror? You will see when we start to loose the war on terrorism. You will see it, and you will know...there won't be a question. We aren't even close to loosing atm. 9/11 will look like a picnic if we REALLY start to loose the war on terrorism. In all honesty it doesnt matter which administration gets in to change us from this hit atm, and for us to be drawn into reality. All it matters by these presidents at this current time is that it maybe a delay of us really loosing the war on terrorism for 20-100years. Its the nature of man, we destroy. And to stop that nature of man, then you must destroy.


Like you guys have said many of times Fanatical Religion is evil and it is very deep in that part of the world. Many of you would be the first people they would behead...Think how technology advances. Ok now add 2+2. Add crazy idiots that you WILL always have until man kind is gone. Add person that will use atomic weapons as a first strike weapon with no warning. Add religious fanatic. You will not be able to talk them out of there hatred, or hug them into submission.



The best bet atm is to change the forms of governments there....Even if it means propping some up and making em pawns....Make the focus over there. Not having there eyes on America, but Iraq or Afganistan and hopefully Syria and Iran. Hopefully democracy or some form of responsible government will spread and hopefully the governments over there will start policing within there own borders. If they cant or don't or snub there nose?? Well then something has to be done about it, or ya can go back to the scenario in the above paragraph. American haters may prefer it. Im not one of em and I understand throughout man's History, what the nature of man is.

[miir]

Add crazy idiots that you WILL always have until man kind is gone. Add person that will use atomic weapons as a first strike weapon with no warning. Add religious fanatic. You will not be able to talk them out of there hatred, or hug them into submission.

Sirton, perhaps you can explain how invading a sovereign nation and being responsible for the deaths of over 15 thousand of their citizens is helping the war on terror....

I'm willing to bet that of those 15k, the majority were moderate (not fanatical) Shiite and Sunni muslims. Not 'america hating terrorists' but your average everyday Iraqi.
How do you think they feel when their families are killed by the American invaders. How would you feel if foreign invaders killed your entire family?


The only way to win the 'war on terror' is to remove the motivations for individual to become terrorists.

Killing innocent people does not help.
Invading sovereign nations does not help.
Massive troop buildup in the middle east does not help.
Unwavering support of Israel does nto help.




And for fuck sakes, please learn how to spell.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=loose
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=lose

For someone who is allegedly a doctor, misspelling words like 'lose' must be pretty fucking embarrassing.

[miir]

The best bet atm is to change the forms of governments there....Even if it means propping some up and making em pawns....Make the focus over there. Not having there eyes on America, but Iraq or Afganistan and hopefully Syria and Iran.

That's disturbing.

With the botched invasion of Iraq, it's obvious that while America may aspire to become the next 'grand empire', they simply do not have the infrastructure to support such ambitions.

[Lohrno]

It's simple really.

Terrorism is increasing over there. That's a fact.

More people are dying over there. That's also a fact.

Now if we're killing so many people, but more of ours are dying, the obvious conclusion is that they are getting more people than they are losing. Usually that's called losing.

What Sirton describes is Terror on our soil.
Terrorism does not know boundaries as we've seen already, and some of those disgruntled people are going to come over here soon.

Why are they disgruntled? Well, because we've invaded them and not provided quickly enough the things for quality of life. We've made things worse. Not only that but we've killed many many non-combatants. Why? Because we have not sent enoughh people there. Look, if we needed to invade a country in the first place you need to supply enough troops to do so. That's the first thing.

The second is that there was no reason to go there in the first place. There has been no credible evidence that Saddam had links to Terror. So, instead of going to Iraq, we could have concentrated on Afghanistan and actually captured Bin Laden, and defeated the Taliban. As it stands now, the Taliban are still holding the southern part of Afghanistan.

Maybe now we do need to reinstate the draft, and just friggin finish off with Iraq instead of this piddly fighting between our meager force there, and insurgents. Either that, or pull out entirely. Whatever side you take, you have to admit that we're doing this half-assed.

Now I am just trying to give reasons why, but the short of it is this. We're fighting Terrorism right? Terrorism is increasing. Therefore if we're waging war on terror, who is winning if Terrorism is increasing?

Bin Laden is laughing his ass off at us right now I'm sure.

-=Lohrno

[noel]

There has been no credible evidence that Saddam had links to Terror.

Actually there was. In 1993. 11 years ago. That was the last time there were any links to the Iraqi government being involved in any type of terrorism.