10/13 Debate Comments

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » October 13, 2004, 10:01 pm

All in all, pretty much what I expected. Kerry built on his strong showing in the past two debates and finished the victor. Bush was pretty inept, only winning points when the issue turned to abortion. I wish they'd have not talked about Iraq so much, this was supposed to be about social issues. If I had any trust in the American voters I'd say Kerry would come out the winner of the election, but well, yea.

Hmm?

What do you mean the debate hasn't started yet?

Markulas · Post by **Markulas** » October 13, 2004, 10:04 pm

shut up!!! everyone knows that the first 60 seconds are the most important!!!

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » October 13, 2004, 10:06 pm

Fucking Pete gave up a run in the 1st

Kaldaur · Post by **Kaldaur** » October 13, 2004, 10:13 pm

Bush is coming out strong. I'm playing EQ2 right now, and just listening, but the president is doing very well.

Raistin · Post by **Raistin** » October 13, 2004, 10:19 pm

He keeps talking about the so called Kerry taxing. Hes telling half the story that fills his need.

I just want Kerry to go, you keep saying 4 more years to start DOING THE THINGS YOU SAID YOU WOULD DO THE FIRST 1 week in office AND HAVE YET

Markulas · Post by **Markulas** » October 13, 2004, 10:23 pm

all Kerry has to do is point out the federal deficit and point out Bush never vetoeing a single spending bill.

lol sorry, Bush: " we don't discourage marriage"

well ummm what about ahh gay ah nevermind, they don't have feelings. They're relationships are like interracial relationships 100 years ago.

Hoarmurath · Post by **Hoarmurath** » October 13, 2004, 10:25 pm

Go Astros!

That being said, I'm watching neither the games nor the debate. I'm configuring internal servers for a new datacenter.

Rivera Bladestrike · October 13, 2004, 10:37 pm

I'm saying its fairly even / leaning kerry on this... so far (35 minutes in)

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » October 13, 2004, 10:51 pm

Bush is getting killed on jobs.

Denadeb · Post by **Denadeb** » October 13, 2004, 11:00 pm

I love how bush dodged the min wage question.

Rivera Bladestrike · October 13, 2004, 11:01 pm

Wow yeah, that was a BLATANT dodge, i couldn't believe how obvious that was

Denadeb · Post by **Denadeb** » October 13, 2004, 11:08 pm

I also love how he said the military people he talked to that were coming back had high spirits. One of my squadrons main missions the last year or so is moving troops around to and from Iraq and I can tell you the vast majority of the ones coming back and going were not in high spirits.

Rivera Bladestrike · October 13, 2004, 11:09 pm

I think Kerry's use of the "Clinton thumb" hand gesture will be key to winning this election.

Denadeb · Post by **Denadeb** » October 13, 2004, 11:12 pm

Lol Its possible.

Denadeb · Post by **Denadeb** » October 13, 2004, 11:15 pm

Did you know we increased Pell Grants by 100,000 people?

Rivera Bladestrike · October 13, 2004, 11:15 pm

The president is getting ridiculous here, on a question of what he'd do about affirmative action, he talked a bout small businesses.

Denadeb · Post by **Denadeb** » October 13, 2004, 11:25 pm

Bushes best answer of the night was the last one about his wife.

Rivera Bladestrike · October 13, 2004, 11:32 pm

I think this was the best debate of the 3... I think Kerry won it, but there was a lot less attacking in this one and more substance. Bush completely dodged a bunch of questions which lost him points. I hope people realize that Kerry won all three debates and hold some value in that.

Denadeb · Post by **Denadeb** » October 13, 2004, 11:33 pm

Other than the blatant dodge on several questions Bush did much better than the other two debates. It was probably more of a draw than the other two.

Raistin · Post by **Raistin** » October 13, 2004, 11:34 pm

Bushes best fact is admitting that his wife speaks better english than him.

noel · Post by **noel** » October 13, 2004, 11:56 pm

Can anyone tell me if he did or did not meet with the black caucus?

Niffoni · Post by **Niffoni** » October 13, 2004, 11:56 pm

It was all worth it for the "Kerry Eats Babies" sign waving behing Wolf Blitzer.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » October 14, 2004, 12:02 am

I think Kerry won this one much stronger than even the first... I just hope the rest of America saw it that way as well. They did show on CNN that out of the undecided voters they had their the majority 10 decided on Kerry, 7 on Bush with 8 still undecided... but from their answers I think they would be leaning towards Kerry as well. Gives me hope for our Country!

Marb

Denadeb · Post by **Denadeb** » October 14, 2004, 12:03 am

Yes bush apparently did meet with the Black Caucus.
about the meeting
I couldn't find much about it but I did find this.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 14, 2004, 12:06 am

Kerry moved his hands so much I thought he was using sign language to communicate to the def. I was impressed for a second.

noel · Post by **noel** » October 14, 2004, 12:07 am

Thanks Den. Glad to see he found an hour for them in the last four years.

Denadeb · Post by **Denadeb** » October 14, 2004, 12:08 am

Lol yeah no shit 1 hour over 4 years but atleast he did meet with them I guess thats better than not.

noel · Post by **noel** » October 14, 2004, 12:10 am

Kind of interesting that Kerry chose to make that type of statement when it was in fact not true. Wonder which of his prep people is going to get fired for that.

Rekaar. · Post by **Rekaar.** » October 14, 2004, 12:15 am

It's totally immaterial who "won" this debate or any other, what matters is who won the votes. Whichever candidate you support is the one you're going to say won the debate =p

I think Kerry has some major PR issues he hasn't been able to overcome, and I think after these 3 debates we'll see him slip further and further behind.

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » October 14, 2004, 12:18 am

noel wrote:Kind of interesting that Kerry chose to make that type of statement when it was in fact not true. Wonder which of his prep people is going to get fired for that.

Yeah that was a major blunder. Bush answered in kind with his denial of the Bin Laden comment and the "exaggeration" smartass remark when it was a quote from a Bush televised news conference.

Bush dodged quite a few questions, bending everything into education. Besides his comments on marrying up I didn't really take much notice of Kerry, it was just rehash of previous debates.

CNN is stating polls favoring Kerry. I'd rate this one a draw as I did the second one.

Xzion- · Post by **Xzion-** » October 14, 2004, 12:22 am

Rekaar. wrote:It's totally immaterial who "won" this debate or any other, what matters is who won the votes. Whichever candidate you support is the one you're going to say won the debate =p

I think Kerry has some major PR issues he hasn't been able to overcome, and I think after these 3 debates we'll see him slip further and further behind.

Thats the exact answer i would expect by someone supporting the clear looser

Bush clearly dodged half the questions, and he doesnt even have the balls to admit that hes against abortion, he doesnt have the balls to publicly take a stance on half of the social issues and yet he calls kerry indecisive

he was asked to ANSWER DIRECTLY ARE YOU FOR OR AGAINST ROE V WADE and he started talking about the supreme court

Denadeb · Post by **Denadeb** » October 14, 2004, 12:34 am

1 hour in almost 4 years I can see how it was missed but that doesn't make it ok. I do belive he was right about the NAACP and Civil Rights leadership though.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 14, 2004, 12:47 am

Bush had his best debate tonight. I'm happy with how he did. You're still smoking something if you think Kerry won it. A wash at best.

I think it will be enough to get the job done on Nov 2nd. Time to hit Ohio hard.

Raistin · Post by **Raistin** » October 14, 2004, 12:52 am

Rekaar. wrote:

I think Kerry has some major PR issues he hasn't been able to overcome, and I think after these 3 debates we'll see him slip further and further behind.

Thank god that not only did Kerry get stomped the first 2 debates, he did so badly that the american people think he even over took Bush in most of the polls. Clearly, today is backwards day, and such in Bush land.

It's totally immaterial who "won" this debate or any other, what matters is who won the votes. Whichever candidate you support is the one you're going to say won the debate

Oh you mean the polls who think Kerry is such a flip flopper, and a bad person for being able to change his mind, and see a better way about things are saying he will do a better job?And such reflects in the polls?

The only clearly decision bush won for me, was about the workers cards. It works in other countries, why not ours. If you set up a program that enables companies to have to follow the law, then that can only help. Why he has yet to do this in the past 4 years, I dont know.

I think if bush followed though on all his promises, and didnt hide so much, this wouldnt even be a contest. He didnt even come though on his promises, he just is not a trustful enough of a person to have in office. If we have someone in office who lies, distorts all reports, and then says hes made no mistakes at all AFTER everything, the only way you can go , is up. With Kerry and his ability to be able to change his mind AFTER knowing all facts, that can only be a good thing. It wont cost lives, it will help strengthen us.

Bush would have had my vote, and about the other 30% who are going to vote for kerry, if he was up front and did what he said he would. Use war as a last resort. He did not. No matter how you want to spin how Saddam refused to follow the UNs resloutions, he did nothing that warrented military action.

Bush dropped the ball, on the war, on the economy, on jobs,siding with huge companies , and tring to reenforce his religion's guidelines on to the rest of the population. He keeps saying 4 more years to do this, to do that, what happend to the last 4?

Want to blame jobs, and the economy on 9/11 ? What about World War 2? The attack on pearl harbor launched us in to a deadly war, yet we didnt lose jobs from the attack nor war. We didnt go in to a recession. Were talking about 3 1/2 years ago. To blame something that happend that long ago, for troubles this country is having now is just fuzzy math.

Never mind the fact that the STATES could not get enough money for funding after 9/11. I witnessed it first hand. They called up the national guard to protect Nucular plants, chemical plants, air ports, military buildings, popular areas that would be prime for attacks. In the state of florida alone, we had 100% of my company called up for central florida. Over all Id say 70% of the guard of florida was called up. Within 1 month, and after 90% of the people on active duty haddnt been paid, it was reduced to maybe 5%.

Do you know where the guard was relived first at? Nucluar plants. I was guarding the plant in Port St Lucy in florida. We had a total of 8 members for the WHOLE section. In 1 month, we had no one there. Why did this happen? Poor leadership of this country and lack of forsight of supplying the states with funding.

I know first hand of the poor leadership. I know my unit members in the 1/124th infantry arnt happy with the leadership. They were over in Iraq, and I will bet my bottom dollar that after not being paid WHILE In Iraq for 3 MONTHS, and the shady way this whole thing went down. They wont vote for bush.

Bottom line, this is all fact. And the sad thing, people are still tring to spin it with excuses. What happend the past 4 years that Bush has promised. Nothing has happend. He has fallen short advantages the house and the senate allowed him to do. He has mismanaged the country just like his 3 companies he drove in to the ground.

Mitzey · Post by **Mitzey** » October 14, 2004, 1:23 am

I listened to the debates on NPR. According to their post-debate wrap up the meeting with the black congressional caucus only happened because the group from the black caucus showed up on Bush's doorstep and wouldn't leave until he met with them.

Mitz

Aruman · Post by **Aruman** » October 14, 2004, 3:11 am

Bush won the third debate.

Kerry was on the defensive quite often, but Kerry scored a few points, a few of the questions were a draw, but Bush came out ahead on most of the questions.

President Bush's personable speaking was more appealing and he had clear plans on the present and the future. Self deprecating humor scored a few bonus points also.

Kerry as usual was 95% negative and 5% positive. No explanation of what his plans are doesn't garner much enthusiasm from me.

Optimism > negativity.

Aruman · Post by **Aruman** » October 14, 2004, 3:13 am

Xzion- wrote:
Rekaar. wrote:It's totally immaterial who "won" this debate or any other, what matters is who won the votes. Whichever candidate you support is the one you're going to say won the debate =p

I think Kerry has some major PR issues he hasn't been able to overcome, and I think after these 3 debates we'll see him slip further and further behind.
Thats the exact answer i would expect by someone supporting the clear looser

Bush clearly dodged half the questions, and he doesnt even have the balls to admit that hes against abortion, he doesnt have the balls to publicly take a stance on half of the social issues and yet he calls kerry indecisive

he was asked to ANSWER DIRECTLY ARE YOU FOR OR AGAINST ROE V WADE and he started talking about the supreme court

Maybe because it is directly related to the Justice's?

I thought he explained his reasoning clearly enough.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » October 14, 2004, 3:23 am

Aruman wrote: Optimism > negativity.

Given it's not his objective to talk Bush up, what optimism do you expect to hear from Kerry?

The sitting government is always judged on it's record, and it's pretty easy to come up with a negative critique on the Bush administration. The only way you can come up with something positive is to subscribe to Bush's brand of faith, there's nothing tangible that you can be positive about.

Xzion- · Post by **Xzion-** » October 14, 2004, 7:51 am

Aruman wrote:Bush won the third debate.

Kerry was on the defensive quite often, but Kerry scored a few points, a few of the questions were a draw, but Bush came out ahead on most of the questions.

President Bush's personable speaking was more appealing and he had clear plans on the present and the future. Self deprecating humor scored a few bonus points also.

Kerry as usual was 95% negative and 5% positive. No explanation of what his plans are doesn't garner much enthusiasm from me.

Optimism > negativity.

yup, he sure won it... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/?GT1=5472

Midnyte_Ragebringer · October 14, 2004, 8:25 am

Zaelath wrote: The sitting government is always judged on it's record.

Not really. Many challenger campaigns in the past were filled with some criticism, but mostly filled with what they will do, their positive vision, etc. This Kerry campaign has been 90% about trashing Bush and 10% about their fague plans.

Rivera Bladestrike · Post by **Rivera Bladestrike** » October 14, 2004, 9:37 am

Its just so easy to trash Bush though, its like a comedian that has 40 years of material.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » October 14, 2004, 10:23 am

The more I hear from Kerry, the less I trust him. He comes across as nothing more than another smooth talking liar. His plans don't work...the numbers will not add up without dumping more taxes on us. That is exactly what we need. Top that off with his "kinder gentler" approach to terrorism and we should be in for another run of bombings against the US.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » October 14, 2004, 11:43 am

Aruman wrote:Bush won the third debate.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/ ... index.html

Ehh, not exactly

A CNN/USA Today/Gallup snap poll taken immediately after the presidential debate found that respondents gave a significant edge to Kerry over Bush, 52 percent to 39 percent.

Note that this is the same poll taken after the 2nd debate that called it statistically even (however ridiculous that may have been).

Rekaar. · Post by **Rekaar.** » October 14, 2004, 12:09 pm

Now you're quoting snap polls as evidence?

Moonwynd · Post by **Moonwynd** » October 14, 2004, 12:27 pm

Rek wrote

It's totally immaterial who "won" this debate or any other, what matters is who won the votes. Whichever candidate you support is the one you're going to say won the debate =p

Bingo! You nailed it right on the head, Rek.

And Xzion...quoting a Snap Poll...given by MSNBC...to prove your candidate of choice was the clear victor??? Snap polls are notoriously innaccurate...and ANY poll given by a source that is biased one way or the other is even more so.

Let me find that snap poll from The Weekly Standard that shows Bush won last night by a margin of 99.999999 to Nil....yeah...that's what I will do to prove my point methinks. Snap polls are drivel...they do nothing more than "preach to the choir".

All of that aside....I thought the questions were pretty good. The answers were pretty much the same. Questions were dodged on both sides. The President looked much better this time than he did the last time...and a far cry better than the first very sad debate. He seemed relaxed, confident and comfortable.

Kerry always looks fairly comfortable and confident. He is a good speaker...no doubt about it. But to me, his "clever" speaking is fairly transparent. I do not know about everyone else, but I do notice that when Kerry has spoken at these debates he always mentions key states...Ohio, Wisconsin and the like. Kerry seems to be the master of statistics and I often see his lawyer side shining through as he tries to dazzle the voters with the numbers/stats that he knows.

I did like the Kerry line about getting advice on fiscal responsibility from the President was like getting advice from Tony Soprano about law enforcement. Not that I agree with Kerry's agenda...I just liked the line. I can only imagine the conversation backstage after the debates were over.

Kerry: They really seemed to enjoy my Tony Soprano line, didn't they?

Advisor: Yes, they did.

Kerry: One question...who is this Tony Soprano fellow?

Advisor: Nevermind. Just keep smiling...you did great.

What it is going to come down to in the coming final weeks before the election is....

Kerry is going to back off the Iraq- Wrong war, wrong place, wrong time theme and hit President Bush hard with the domestic issues (economy, healthcare, middle class issues).

Bush is going to keep going and most likely turn up the heat a little on the security of our nation, and he will counter Kerry's stumping by telling us how Kerry will have no way to pay for his campaign promises without taxing the middle class.

I think it will be a very close battle in the end...and I am very glad the debates went off as they did. It was a good chance to see the whole democratic process....the debates themselves...not the spin taking place on BOTH sides of the fence afterwards.

miir · Post by **miir** » October 14, 2004, 12:30 pm

Rekaar. wrote:Now you're quoting snap polls as evidence?

Evidence?
Who won or lost is purely subjective.
There is no 'real' proof or evidence that can support anyones opinion on a debate.

However, a quickpoll is far more accurate than 1 single person saying : Bush won the third debate.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » October 14, 2004, 12:35 pm

Rekaar. wrote:Now you're quoting snap polls as evidence?

snap polls are nothing more than that.

but what is irrefutable is that before the 1st debate, Bush had a lead as high as 10 points in some polls, and as low as 6 points in others. That lead completely disappeared within 10 days and the race is now a deadlock in all polls, with Kerry even having a slight lead in some (but not larger than the error margin).

No analysts thought the political climate was that volatile. The presidents debate performances are going to cost him this election. Unless the news cycle or his campaign can stop the bleeding in the next 19 days, he will lose.

Karl Rove was actually out doing interviews last night, and i'm not sure I've ever seen him personally interviewed on CNN's air before. But he was out last night.

The assertion that the President has been trending positive in the month of October (as was actually made a few posts ago) is not only completely contravened by the facts, I simply can't believe that anybody who isnt compensated to do so, could say that and keep from puking. To clarify, i understand a GOP operative who is paid to go on TV saying "we won, bla bla bla", but Bush didn't, and it wasn't even close.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » October 14, 2004, 12:36 pm

Rekaar. wrote:Now you're quoting snap polls as evidence?

snap polls are nothing more than that.

but what is irrefutable is that before the 1st debate, Bush had a lead as high as 10 points in some polls, and as low as 6 points in others. That lead completely disappeared within 10 days and the race is now a deadlock in all polls, with Kerry even having a slight lead in some (but not larger than the error margin).

No analysts thought the political climate was that volatile. The presidents debate performances are going to cost him this election. Unless the news cycle or his campaign can stop the bleeding in the next 19 days, he will lose.

Karl Rove was actually out doing interviews last night, and i'm not sure I've ever seen him personally interviewed on CNN's air before. But he was out last night.

The assertion that the President has been trending positive in the month of October (as was actually made a few posts ago) is not only completely contravened by the facts, I simply can't believe that anybody who isnt compensated to do so, could say that and keep from puking. To clarify, i understand a GOP operative who is paid to go on TV saying "we won, bla bla bla", but Bush didn't, and it wasn't even close.

Moon, if it doesn't matter who won the debates, then why has the president's 10 point lead in the polls disappeared since the 1st debate?

the debates matter a ton. 65 million people watched the first debate where Bush was horrible. Not all of those people have (amazingly) decided who they are going to vote for.

We are all interested in varrying degrees in politics which is why we gravitate to this forum, so we know what side of the fence we are on. But i guess there are some people who dont, LOL.

miir · Post by **miir** » October 14, 2004, 12:37 pm

Snap polls are drivel...they do nothing more than "preach to the choir".

So a Foxnews poll showing Bush and Kerry neck in neck on who won the debate doesn't indicate that Bush may have had a poor showing?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 14, 2004, 1:27 pm

It comes down to Ohio. Time for everyone to kiss Homercles feet.

Homer decides this election.

With all the liberals trying to use snap polls and on the defensive, it's clear that Bush did much better in this debate. I don't care if Bush "won" the election. He was more positive than Kerry and there were no hard figures to be found from Kerry for his plan to pay for all of his miracle cures.

Bush did not hurt himself in this election and with it being the final debate, probably stabilized or helped himself some with his good performance. Bush is made out to be a bumbling idiot by the left wingers so any kind of good showing is a plus as conservative minded people are well aware that Bush may not be a good speaker so they can even say that Kerry "won" the presentation of the debate but not vote for him.