kyoukan wrote:nice to see hammertalker got let back out of the institution, because the screaming retard to intelligent person ratio was getting a little low.
Ah Hell just when Metanis had conviced me to be against the death penalty, Kyoukan goes off and post.
Ok I am fairly new to your boards, but I finally reached the end of this thread and feel I must post something, even if it is only to say OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS is a cool word. Too bad I don’t know it’s root or quite possibly it is a good thing I don't know.
When I began this read, I really didn't know what religion was being discussed. I could tell it was a faith and I respect others faith and hope they would mine. The discussion has ranged from Catholics, Hindus (I think that cow remark qualified), to atheism, hop skip jump to politics and back. I couldn't help but get the feeling that several scribers to this post tend to stereotype. Some words were used that I don't even know what they mean, i.e. antimiscognation. That wasn't a word in the definition from Webster’s reference from earlier post. No one mentioned the Episcopalians, now they believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church (pretty sure that is Christian) and yet have gay and lesbian paritioners. Sort of like bonk bonk on the head ** gay christians** what a concept. Although I agree that the Republican Party is mostly made up of traditional husbands and wives, where are the gay delegates that should be there to object when no objections were made in the Senate? Ok I know that is a stupid question, but I still ponder it.
Morality was discussed and knowing right from wrong, I think that knowing right from wrong is called discipline. God gave us free will, to make choices. If we choose to use discipline in making those choices all the better. Well I still question, if this same sex sexual relationships are natural and have been for over 2000 years, why is this battle for civil rights happening now and not 300 or one hundred years ago? I think that the Catholic Church may have been the first money-making corporation in the world. /shrug imo
I would comment, but not having been fully informed to the highest degree of accuracy, I hesitate to articulate for fear that I may deviate from the true course of rectitude. =)
Because now it's less taboo. America is becomming more of a sexually free society - and while this is not a bad thing - it has given certain groups (homosexuals, hell, even women's rights stem from this 'freedom revolution' that started back in the 70's) the ability to be vocal and not completely ostracized by it. I think.
Akaran of Mistmoore, formerly Akaran of Veeshan I know I'm good at what I do, but I know I'm not the best.
But I guess that on the other hand, I could be like the rest.
Its because a bunch of morbid doomsayer crispies took over the Roman Empire after it fell. Most gays went into the closet around that time, as they were lumped in with all the other various "immoral" acts that the new leaders felt led to Romes trouncing by the barbarians. It wasn't just homosexuality either, they cracked down on anything that was not strictly procreative sex. People accepted it because they though the fall of Rome meant the end of the civilized world and were looking to suck up to god.
Its basically taken the world over a millenia to catch up to where the Romans were socially. The elimination of the nuclear family and expanded access to information are probably the largest contibutors to gays becomming accepted well enough that they are pressing for these rights. Its hard to buy into this ingrained bullshit when the average person can get a lot of information easily to base their views on.
War is an option whose time has passed. Peace is the only option for the future. At present we occupy a treacherous no-man's-land between peace and war, a time of growing fear that our military might has expanded beyond our capacity to control it and our political differences widened beyond our ability to bridge them. . . .
Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
--RICHARD M. NIXON, "REAL PEACE" (1983)
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."
As Family Fued would say "Good Answer Good Answer" Those are certainly things that I did not think about before. I really didn't expect an answer that would make sense but it did, Thank you, I am astonished.
I would comment, but not having been fully informed to the highest degree of accuracy, I hesitate to articulate for fear that I may deviate from the true course of rectitude. =)
It was not actually after the fall. If Gibbon is taken as source (and I don't know a better expert on the subject), the crispys took over (via a born again Emperor - Constantine) at the beginning of the decline. During his reign, Rome was converted to Christianity. Constantine himself, however, had little to do with the Christian based hateful laws. Those came much later (arguably after Rome's fall). Early in his reign (post conversation - that is), Constantine called together a collection of Bishops to define Christianity. The results of that conference were quite benign, essentially, of substance, declared the Catholic Church as the one Christaian Church (not really remarkable, since at the time that was actually factually acurate) and instituted baptism.
So, basically, Constantine forced all of Rome into Christianity, but Rome was still quite stong at that time and none of the socially negative aspects of Christianity per present under his reign. Had Rome, died, however, as a pegan (I don't know the official name of their religion, if it even had one - so I'l call it pegan - I suspect that is not right however) nation, rather than a Christian one, I suspect you are right that much of the power of the Christian churchs would be dimished today, so its probably fair to blame Constantine and Rome for the origins of the mess we have now.
Aaeamdar wrote:It was not actually after the fall. If Gibbon is taken as source (and I don't know a better expert on the subject), the crispys took over (via a born again Emperor - Constantine) at the beginning of the decline. During his reign, Rome was converted to Christianity. Constantine himself, however, had little to do with the Christian based hateful laws. Those came much later (arguably after Rome's fall). Early in his reign (post conversation - that is), Constantine called together a collection of Bishops to define Christianity. The results of that conference were quite benign, essentially, of substance, declared the Catholic Church as the one Christaian Church (not really remarkable, since at the time that was actually factually acurate) and instituted baptism.
So, basically, Constantine forced all of Rome into Christianity, but Rome was still quite stong at that time and none of the socially negative aspects of Christianity per present under his reign. Had Rome, died, however, as a pegan (I don't know the official name of their religion, if it even had one - so I'l call it pegan - I suspect that is not right however) nation, rather than a Christian one, I suspect you are right that much of the power of the Christian churchs would be dimished today, so its probably fair to blame Constantine and Rome for the origins of the mess we have now.
What mess is that?
Oh yea, a doctrine of moral rights and wrongs.
vs
Your view of the planet where an individual should be able to do and act any way they deem fit?
How about this Aaeamdar, you state your views on sexuality, where the lines should be drawn. Also how you came to the conclusion that Christians are the only ones who view homosexuality as wrong. To my way of thinking almost every religion on the planet shares these views, also many secular people also have the same opinion that homosexuality is wrong.
Once again this only proves the point that you have an irrational hatred of the "Crispys".
Cheers
Atokal
If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared.
Niccolo Machiavelli
I would comment, but not having been fully informed to the highest degree of accuracy, I hesitate to articulate for fear that I may deviate from the true course of rectitude. =)
Crispy is shorthand for Jesus Crispies, a deragatory term for the christians who are so far gone in their dogma and superstition that it conjures images of them recieving the lords own word from their bowl of rice crispies in the moring. This slang term was originally coined by some well known atheist in Oklahoma, who's name escapes me. Taken a little further by some free thinker chat boards, anything from the original church (Greek Orthodox, Catholasim, and Protestant) is sometimes called Original Recipie, while newer denominations and new age branches have been called Extra Crispy. Basically, its some internet slang from some of the well trafficked atheist boards on the net.
War is an option whose time has passed. Peace is the only option for the future. At present we occupy a treacherous no-man's-land between peace and war, a time of growing fear that our military might has expanded beyond our capacity to control it and our political differences widened beyond our ability to bridge them. . . .
Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
--RICHARD M. NIXON, "REAL PEACE" (1983)
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."
Oh and Atokal, once again you demonstrate your ignorance and amazing ability to fling shit from your mouth like it was the back end of a manuer spreader. Your statement might very well be true, in that bizarro fantasy world you think you are actually living in with Darryl and your other brother Darryl. Reality is quite different, however.
Christianity is the only mainstream religion with specific unilateral stances against gays. Islamic Fundementalism and Orthodox Jews are also strongly anti-gay, but their mainstream counterparts do not even have an official stance on the issues. Hinduism, Bhudism, and Zoarastrianism could care less if you are gay. Once you step down from those religions into the even smaller faiths, there are basically very few instances of anti-gay belief systems, and in fact several well known ones were accepting of same sex marriages.
War is an option whose time has passed. Peace is the only option for the future. At present we occupy a treacherous no-man's-land between peace and war, a time of growing fear that our military might has expanded beyond our capacity to control it and our political differences widened beyond our ability to bridge them. . . .
Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
--RICHARD M. NIXON, "REAL PEACE" (1983)
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."
