Cheney VOTED AGAINST a national MLK holiday...

[Xzion-]

...and recognizing Nelson Mandella for his accomplishments
Discuss.

...i really want to hear what justification Bush supporters will throw out

(dont sidetrack your arguments with Kerry flip-flopping flames, answer the question directly, or have the balls to admit he was flat out wrong and your discusted by his actions)

[Winnow]

Who cares? I could care less about any holiday except for maybe Veterans day.

I'm for a KKK day if it means I get a paid day off work.

[Markulas]

haha but you're not for a Nelson Mandela day?

[Kylere]

I back any paid day off of work! I would even take Xzion day off. I can see Cheney voting against it though, the business sector was all pissy about another paid day off.

You have a source for this data Xzion?

[Xzion-]

I back any paid day off of work! I would even take Xzion day off. I can see Cheney voting against it though, the business sector was all pissy about another paid day off.

You have a source for this data Xzion?

It was mentioned by edwards on the debates and later by someone on the news or crossfire or something, and the other side didnt deny the charges, neither did Cheney

[Arborealus]

The guy voted against the Older Americans Act in 84 and 87...Holidays for MLK Day and Recognition of the work of Mandela are great...But I think those are less serious than say not funding Meals on Wheels...He's just an evil fuck IMO...

[Drasta]

we need a National White American Holiday .....

[Kylere]

Did you kow that John McCain also voted against an MLK holiday? It actually barely passed, dems and reps both voted against it.

See Xzion that is where you are wrong you are not pointing out a failure of an individual, but of politicians.

[Canelek]

I would like about 12 more Labor Days actually. That is about the only holiday that requires absolutely no obligation whatsoever.

...and I don't FUCKING ROLL on Chavas(sp)!

[Winnow]

Martin Luther King...eh....George Washington Carver...now there's a black man that needs a holiday named after him!

Dude invented three hundred uses for the peanut.

Agricultural chemist, Carver invented three hundred uses for peanuts and hundreds more uses for soybeans, pecans and sweet potatoes. Countless products we enjoy today come to us by the way of Carver. Only three patents were ever issued to him, but among his listed discoveries are: adhesives, axle grease, bleach, buttermilk, chili sauce, fuel briquettes, ink, instant coffee, linoleum, mayonnaise, meat tenderizer, metal polish, paper, plastic, pavement, shaving cream, shoe polish, synthetic rubber, talcum powder and wood stain.

Imagine someone setting a peanut in front of you and saying, "Show me three hundred uses for this peanut."


Some quotes from GWC:

-It is not the style of clothes one wears, neither the kind of automobile one drives, nor the amount of money one has in the bank, that counts. These mean nothing. It is simply service that measures success.

-Look about you. Take hold of the things that are here. Let them talk to you. You learn to talk to them.

-Learn to do common things uncommonly well; we must always keep in mind that anything that helps fill the dinner pail is valuable.

-The primary idea in all of my work was to help the farmer and fill the poor man's empty dinner pail.. My idea is to help the 'man farthest down', this is why I have made every process just as simple as I could to put it within his reach.

[Sionistic]

I can see why it could be voted against. Slippery Slope Idea

[Akaran_D]

It doesn't effect me either way. Great people do great things daily, and are rarely recognized for it.

How about "Nurse who just had to watch an elder person die because there's no family that cares" day?

Or, "Social worker that just had to take 15 children out of a home where they've been beaten, starved, raped and tortured" day?

Or, "Firefighter that died saving a cat in a burning building" day?

MLK was a great man, and he did great things. No one here is going to refute that. But part of what doing great things is all about is knowing the fact that you may not be recognized, or even recognized by a national holiday.

[Marbus]

Cheney has like the most conservative voting record EVAH! Its not just the ones you posted he voted for stuff even the far far right voted for... I'll see if I can find a link. This came up in 2000 though as well, I thought eveyone already knew about it.

Marb

[Voronwë]

MLK day is about a lot more than one person. A person who is one of the greatest Americans ever.

The reason McCain voted against it is because in Arizona, you were forced to take racist positions like that to stay elected.

[noel]

MLK day is about a lot more than one person. A person who is one of the greatest Americans ever.

The reason McCain voted against it is because in Arizona, you were forced to take racist positions like that to stay elected.

I would second that MLK is one of the greatest Americans ever. He probably did more for the US than 90% of our politicians ever have.

[Rekaar.]

I wouldn't call it racist to vote against a national holiday. Traditionally conservatives have been for state's rights. When you make something a national holiday it costs money in spent wages.

That said, I probably would have voted for this one.

[Marbus]

Yes I know it's probably biased from the who it comes from but I have been able to verify parts of each from other areas on the net so I'm assuming most of it is correct. If you disagree with part of it, just google it.

http://www.democrats.org/specialreports/cheney_record/

Dick Cheney's Real Record
Cheney Lied About WMDs And Hussein's Links to Al Qaeda
Cheney Said There Was "No Doubt" That Saddam Possessed WMDs. "Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction." [Dick Cheney, Speech to VFW, 8/26/03]

Cheney Said Hussein Had Ties to Al Qaeda. "But we also have to address the question of where might these terrorists acquire weapons of mass destruction, chemical weapons, biological weapons, nuclear weapons? And Saddam Hussein becomes a prime suspect in that regard because of his past track record and because we know he has, in fact, developed these kinds of capabilities, chemical and biological weapons. We know he's used chemical weapons. We know he's reconstituted these programs since the Gulf War. We know he's out trying once again to produce nuclear weapons and we know that he has a long-standing relationship with various terrorist groups, including the al-Qaeda organization." [NBC, "Meet the Press," 3/16/03]

Cheney: Ousting Saddam in 1991 Would "Not Have Been Easy" -- New Government Difficult to Establish. "There were ample reasons for the first President Bush not to go after Mr. Hussein. The current vice president and then the secretary of defense, Dick Cheney, outlined some of them in an interview with the British Broadcasting Corporation in 1992, when he said: 'If we'd gone to Baghdad and got rid of Saddam Hussein -- assuming we could have found him -- we'd have had to put a lot of forces in and run him to ground someplace. He would not have been easy to capture. Then you've got to put a new government in his place, and then you're faced with the question of what kind of government are you going to establish in Iraq? Is it going to be a Kurdish government, or a Shia government or a Sunni government?' Mr. Cheney continued. 'How many forces are you going to have to leave there to keep it propped up, how many casualties are you going to take through the course of this operation?'" [New York Times, 12/16/03]

Cheney Reaps Profits from Halliburton at the Expense of American Taxpayers and Troops
Halliburton Awarded No-Bid Rebuilding Contracts Worth Billions. In March 2003, the Pentagon awarded Halliburton's construction wing, Kellogg Brown and Root (KBR), a no-bid contract to help rebuild Iraqi oil fields after a possible war there, including advice on putting out oil well fires. The Army Corps of Engineers said that Halliburton's compensation for rejuvenating Iraq's oil industry could be up to $7 billion. [San Francisco Chronicle, 3/8/03; Ottawa Citizen, 3/7/03; Wall Street Journal, 3/7/03; New York Times, 4/11/03; Associated Press, 11/5/03]

Halliburton Gouged Gas Prices In Postwar Iraq At Expense Of American Taxpayers. The military investigated Halliburton and found that it overcharged for gas it imported into Iraq from Kuwait. US taxpayers and the United Nations oil-for-food program are paying Halliburton an average price of $2.64 per gallon, which is more than twice what others pay for Kuwait fuel. The appropriations bill that President Bush signed in November 2003 mandates that taxpayers subsidize all gas important costs beginning in 2004. Pentagon auditors have asked the Department of Defense to investigate Halliburton's activity in Kuwait, and in December the military ended its contract to with Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg Brown & Root to import oil. [Reuters, 12/11/03; New York Times, 12/10/03; Associated Press, 11/5/03; Washington Post, 12/31/03, 1/16/04]

Halliburton Reaps Profits While Forcing Troops To Eat In Filthy Conditions. Halliburton's subsidiary Kellogg, Brown & Root [KBR] serves 110,000 soldiers in Iraq their meals. For that service, American taxpayers pay Halliburton "$28 per soldier per day." But, according to NBC News, "Pentagon inspections of mess halls run by KBR are finding a mess in some of them...In the main Baghdad dining facility where President Bush surprised the troops on Thanksgiving, inspectors found filthy kitchen conditions in each of the three previous months. Complaints filed in August, September and again in October report problems. Blood all over the floor of refrigerators, dirty pans, dirty grills, dirty salad bars, rotting meats and vegetables. In October, the inspector writes that Halliburton's previous promises to fix the problems have not been followed through and warns the company serious repercussions may result, due to improper handling and serving of food." [NBC News, 12/12/03]

Cheney Proposed to Cut Defense Programs Vital to Recent Military Operations
Cheney Proposed Cutting F-16 Aircraft. In testimony before the House Armed Services Committee, Cheney said, "If you're going to have a smaller air force, you don't need as many F-16s...The F-16D we basically continue to buy and close it out because we're not going to have as big a force structure and we won't need as many F-16s." According to the Boston Globe, Bush's 1991 defense budget "kill[ed] 81 programs for potential savings of $ 11.9 billion...Major weapons killed include[d]....the Air Force's F-16 airplane." [Cheney testimony, House Armed Services Committee, 2/7/91; Boston Globe, 2/5/91]

Cheney Proposed Cuts to B-2 Program. According to the Boston Globe, in 1990, "Defense Secretary Richard Cheney announced a cutback... of nearly 45 percent in the administration's B-2 Stealth bomber program, from 132 airplanes to 75..." [Boston Globe, 4/27/90]

Cheney Proposed Cutting AH-64 Apaches. In testimony before the Senate Appropriations Committee, Defense Subcommittee, Cheney said, "This is just a list of some of the programs that I've recommended termination: the V-22 Osprey, the F-14D, the Army Helicopter Improvement Program, Phoenix missile, F-15E, the Apache helicopter, the M1 tank, et cetera." In testimony before the House Armed Services Committee, Cheney said, "The Army, as I indicated in my earlier testimony, recommended to me that we keep a robust Apache helicopter program going forward, AH-64...I forced the Army to make choices...So I recommended that we cancel the AH-64 program two years out." [Cheney testimony, Senate Appropriations Committee, Defense Subcommittee, 6/12/90; Cheney Testimony, House Armed Services Committee, 7/13/89, emphasis added]

Cheney Proposed Cutting M-1 Abrams Tanks. In testimony before the Senate Appropriations Committee, Defense Subcommittee, Cheney said, "This is just a list of some of the programs that I've recommended termination: the V-22 Osprey, the F-14D, the Army Helicopter Improvement Program, Phoenix missile, F-15E, the Apache helicopter, the M1 tank, et cetera." The Boston Globe reported on the impact of Cheney's cuts to armored tanks: "The Army's cupboard is left particularly bare. Coming in the wake of last year's killing of the M-1 tank and the Apache helicopter, the death of the M-2 means the Army will soon have virtually no major weapons in production." [Cheney testimony, Senate Appropriations Committee, Defense Subcommittee, 6/12/90; Boston Globe, 2/5/91]

Cheney Proposed Cutting B-52 Bombers. In 1990, Cheney proposed cutting 14 B-52 bombers. Cheney also sought the retirement of two Navy battleships, two nuclear cruisers, and eight nuclear-powered attack submarines. In 1991, Cheney scrapped the Navy's A-12 Stealth attack plane, a fighter that was proclaimed to be a key part of the future of navy aviation in advanced stealth technology. [Newsday, 2/5/91; NY Times, 1/8/91; Boston Globe, 4/27/90; Boston Globe, 1/30/90]

Cheney's Record as Secretary of Defense Includes Cutting Troops and Bases
Cheney Cut Thousands of Active-Duty, Reserve, and Civilian Forces. In January 1990, Cheney banned the hiring of any new civilian personnel in the Defense Department through the end of September, which left more than 65,000 jobs vacant. Under the budget proposed in 1990, the Pentagon would have reduced active military personnel by 38,000; selected reserves would have fallen by 3,000. The budget called for the deactivation of two Army divisions. Long range, the Pentagon planned to reduce its work force by 300,000, including about 200,000 military personnel and 100,000 civilians. In 1991, he called for reduction of 200,000 active and reserve military personnel over two years. In 1992, Cheney called for cutting 500,000 active-duty people, 200,000 reservists, and 200,000 civilians over five years. [Minneapolis Star-Tribune, 2/2/92; Chicago Tribune, 2/20/91; 1990 CQ Almanac, p. 672; Washington Post, 1/13/90; Boston Globe, 1/30/90]

Active-Duty and Reserve Forces Endured Huge Reductions Under Cheney. The LA Times reported in November 1991 that the number of active-duty military personnel had decreased by over 106,000, or 5 percent of the total forces. The National Guard and Reserves had been cut by nearly 38,000, instead of the 105,000 the Bush Administration sought. [LA Times, 11/2/91]

Cheney Proposed Over 70 Base Closures. In 1990, Cheney proposed the closure of 72 domestic military installations and 12 overseas facilities. On April 12, 1991, Cheney proposed to close 31 major domestic military bases. The plan also called for shutting 12 smaller bases and reducing operations at 28 others. He submitted his list of closures to a commission on base closings on April 15, 1991. In 1992, Cheney proposed 70 overseas military base closures, three of which were in Turkey. [Aerospace Daily, 8/17/92; 1991 CQ Almanac, p. 427; Chicago Tribune, 1/30/90]

Cheney Conducted Secret Energy Task Force Meetings Composed Largely of Energy Industry Officials
Cheney Chaired Nine Cabinet Level Meetings on Energy Task Force, Met With Enron Officials. Vice President Dick Cheney chaired nine meetings of the Cabinet-level Energy Task Force that Vice President Cheney chaired between January and May 2001. Each of the meetings lasted 90 minutes. According to Enron Spokesman Vance Meyer, during the course of the Energy Task Force meetings, there was a thirty minute meeting between Vice President Cheney, then Enron Chairman Kenneth Lay and "another executive." Cheney's Energy Task Force officials met with 118 energy industry or corporate groups, 13 environmental groups and 1 consumer group during meetings of the energy task force. The Supreme Court will hear oral arguments in the case on April 27, 2004. [Washington Post, 3/26/02, 5/17/01; New York Times, 5/10/01; 5/20/01; 4/25/04]

Cheney Failed to Provide Body Armor for Troops in Iraq For More Than a Year
Cheney Admits One Year After Iraq War Began That Troops Lacked Body Armor. The war on Iraq commenced in March 2003. In an interview with Brit Hume of Fox News on March 17, 2004, one year later, Cheney said, "I believe the chief of staff of the Army and the vice chief -- vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs have testified recently that all of our troops in Iraq are now properly equipped with the newest body armor. So there were -- the main problem had been just the sheer capacity to produce these items early on." [Fox News Special Report with Brit Hume, 3/17/04]

Bush Administration Made At Least Five Separate Promises to Provide Body Armor; Despite Recent Claims, Some Troops Still Waiting. The Bush Administration first promised that all troops would be fully equipped with body armor by the end of November 2003. They continued to extend the deadline to the end of December, January, and then February, until they finally claimed in March 2004 that all troops were equipped with body armor. However, Major General Charles Swannack, commander of the 82nd Airborne Division, reported in March that, "We are still short a significant amount of vehicles, radios, and body armor to properly equip [soldiers]." The AP reported in late March, "Soldiers headed for Iraq are still buying their own body armor - and in many cases, their families are buying it for them - despite assurances from the military that the gear will be in hand before they're in harm's way." [House Appropriations Committee, Subcommittee on Foreign Operations, 9/24/03; UPI, 12/3/03; Hartford Courant, 1/11/04; House Appropriations Committee, Defense Subcommittee, 2/12/04; Senate Armed Services Committee hearing, 3/2/04; NY Daily News, 3/11/04; AP, 3/26/04]

Cheney Has Failed to Keep Faith With Those Who Have Worn the Uniform
In 1981, Cheney Voted Against Raising Military Pay for Senior and Junior Enlisted Personnel. In 1981, Cheney voted against an amendment to increase the pay of senior enlisted personnel by 18-22 percent and the basic pay of junior enlisted personnel by 7-9 percent. The amendment was rejected 170-232. [1981 CQ Almanac, p.66-H, vote #192]

In 1982, Cheney Voted Against Authorizing Military Pay Raise. In 1982, Cheney voted against the "Uniformed Services Pay Act" which would have authorized a pay raise in FY 1983 for uniformed members of the armed services. The bill would have also restricted the hiring of private contractors to perform Department of Defense services. The vote was a motion to suspend the rules and pass the bill. The motion was rejected 214-186. [1982 CQ Almanac, p.98-H, vote #330]

As Congressman, Cheney Consistently Voted Against Veterans Administration Funding. In 1980, 1981, 1982, 1985, 1986, 1987, and 1988, Cheney was one of a small number of House members to passage of bills that provided funding for the Veterans Administration. In 1983, Cheney voted against bringing a bill to the House floor and paired against House passage of a bill that provided funding for the Veterans Administration. In 1981, Cheney was one of only 41 House members to vote against House passage of a bill that provided business loans and additional educational benefits to Vietnam veterans. In 1983, Cheney was one of only 30 House members to vote against House passage of a bill that would have provided $54 million for Agent Orange studies and $75 million for the Emergency Veterans Jobs Training Act. [H.R. 7631, 1980 CQ Almanac, p. 119-H, #395; H.R. 4034, 1981 CQ Almanac, p. 53-H, #138; p. 67-H, #191; H.R. 6956, 1982 CQ Almanac, p. 95-H, #314; p. 7-F, P.L. 97-272; H.R. 3133, 1983 CQ Almanac, p. 44-H, #137; p. 65-H, #215; H.R. 3038, 1985 CQ Almanac, p. 77-H, #236; p. 115-H, #368; H.R. 5313, 1986 CQ Almanac, p. 101-H, #353; H.R. 2783, 1987 CQ Almanac, p. 101-H, #328; H.R. 4800, 1988 CQ Almanac, p. 64-H, #198; p. 86-H, #268; H.R. 3423, 1981 CQ Almanac, p. 29-H, #51; H.R. 3959, 1983 CQ Almanac, p. 109-H, #363]

Cheney Had "Other Priorities" During Vietnam War
Cheney Had "Other Priorities" During Vietnam War. Vice President Dick Cheney received five deferments during the Vietnam War from 1963 to 1966, a period of heightened American commitment in Vietnam. He later dismissed questions about his failure to serve by simply saying, "I had other priorities in the '60s." [McGrory, Washington Post, 7/27/00; Geyer, Chicago Tribune, 2/6/04; Arizona Republic, 1/22/04]

Cheney and Bush Campaign Distort Record of Cheney's Deferments. The Washington Post reported in 1991 that Cheney received five deferments, four 2-S student deferments and one under the 3-A classification -- "registrant with a child or children; or registrant deferred by reason of extreme hardship to dependents." In his Senate confirmation hearing, Cheney said he "would have obviously been happy to serve had I been called," which contradicting his earlier statement, "I had other priorities in the '60s than military service." Bush staff members said Cheney received only three deferments, two for school and one for being a new father. [Washington Post, 4/3/91; Des Moines Register, 8/2/00]

Marb

[Niffoni]

Dude, he voted against a national holiday! Who the fuck cares what the holiday would supposedly be "about"? The man is obviously fucking evil. I have american friends who would kill for another long weekend!

[Toshira]

Winnow, isn't Arizona the only state in the union that doesn't recognize MLK day anyway?

And you have that f'ed up anti-daylight savings time thing...

Weirdos.

[masteen]

Daylight savings time can eat my asshole. Much h8 for time changes.

[Sylvus]

Blasphemy. At least we get to "fall back" this month. I the extra hour of sleep.

[Homercles]

"fall back" sucks ass. No more golf after work. Not enough daylight thanks to day light savings. Nothing worse than leaving work after its already dark.

Screw the farmers! Help the golfers! Abolish Day Light Savings!

[Rekaar.]

Cheney Said Hussein Had Ties to Al Qaeda. "But we also have to address the question of where might these terrorists acquire weapons of mass destruction, chemical weapons, biological weapons, nuclear weapons? And Saddam Hussein becomes a prime suspect in that regard because of his past track record and because we know he has, in fact, developed these kinds of capabilities, chemical and biological weapons. We know he's used chemical weapons. We know he's reconstituted these programs since the Gulf War. We know he's out trying once again to produce nuclear weapons and we know that he has a long-standing relationship with various terrorist groups, including the al-Qaeda organization."

ahhh so that's the infamous quote.

Someone tell me what part of that is unequivocally false.

[Voronwë]

"We know he's out trying once again to produce nuclear weapons"

depending on when the quote was made, it could have been well known that this was not true within the administration.

Cheney repeatedly said "it is well established Mohammed Atta met with Iraqi intelligence in Prague". that was not true.

there are plenty of other cases where Cheney specifically went on television and said that Iraq was reconstituting the nuclear program when it was known to the administration that it wasnt.

The best case scenario for Cheney is that he was simply wrong on all of those statements for justifying the war.

A middle of the road assessment is that he was not being factually inaccurate, but was probably being intentionally misleading.

A more critical indictment would be that he was knowingly distorting if not manufacturing facts.

We are talking about the credibility of a guy who 2 days ago said "I am in the Senate most Tuesdays, and this is the first time i've ever met Senator Edwards".

At the 2001 prayer breakfast, he personally thanked Sen Edwards. He met Senator Edwards on the set of Meet the Press that year accordign to Tim Russert.

Oh yeah and Cheney has only been in the Senate TWO Tuesdays in the last four years.

he's a fucking liar, and it is completely shameless lieing as well.

[Winnow]

Daylight Saving isn't needed in my neck of the woods. You goofy people that think you're farmers and need the light are the only ones that think it's needed!

If we had Martin Luther King day, we would have had to give up some other day off so it really doesn't matter to me. We get some other day off most people don't I think.

[Voronwë]

if i'd have known it would have been like this, I'd have PICKED MY OWN COTTON!!!!


anyway to clarify Cheney's lie about "most Tuesday's i'm at the senate".

he is there most Tuesdays.

for lunch.

with only Republican senators.

He has presided as acting president of the Senate exactly two times, which is less than Hillary Clinton has done it.

he also met John Edwards at Elizabeth Dole's something or other. Edwards escorted Dole to the front where Cheney administered the ceremony.

[Winnow]

I met David Lee Roth as a concert. Well, we were in the same building!

Cheney's point is...where it counts...when the senate is in session...he hasn't met or seen Sen. Edwards...brushing shoulders with him in buffet lines and prayer events doesn't count! : )

[Voronwë]

I met David Lee Roth as a concert. Well, we were in the same building!

Cheney's point is...where it counts...when the senate is in session...he hasn't met or seen Sen. Edwards...not in buffet lines and prayer events! : )

that is because Cheney ISNT IN THE SENATE WHEN IT IS SESSION dork

I havent met President Bush when i'm in the Oval Office, so he obviously isn't doing his job.

[Winnow]

I met David Lee Roth as a concert. Well, we were in the same building!

Cheney's point is...where it counts...when the senate is in session...he hasn't met or seen Sen. Edwards...not in buffet lines and prayer events! : )

that is because Cheney ISNT IN THE SENATE WHEN IT IS SESSION dork

I havent met President Bush when i'm in the Oval Office, so he obviously isn't doing his job.

Kerry is a flip flopper!

OK, it's been established that both sides lied during the VP debate...but Cheney looked better doing it.

[Voronwë]

OK, it's been established that both sides lied during the VP debate...but Cheney looked better doing it.

he has much more experience than Edwards when it comes to deceiving the electorate.

[Spankes]

Yeah, arizona catches a lot of shit over MLK day but the truth is that it wasn't like they were giving us a holiday and recognizing mlk. They wanted to take away a holiday and give MLK instead. I think most people didn't vote for it because they saw no reason ti give a day to get a day. Once we lost the superbowl over it then it came up for another vote and passed fine....iirc.

Anyway, not having dalight savings kicks ass!

[Rekaar.]

I'm going to say Cheney didn't remember meeting Edwards because the guy was such a minor player he wasn't memorable =(

[Xzion-]

I'm going to say Cheney didn't remember meeting Edwards because the guy was such a minor player he wasn't memorable =(

he is our next vice president...

[Winnow]

I'm going to say Cheney didn't remember meeting Edwards because the guy was such a minor player he wasn't memorable =(

he is our next vice president...

What does that matter even if he was going to be? Some guy named Quayle was a VP as well.

[Thess]

I'm going to say Cheney didn't remember meeting Edwards because the guy was such a minor player he wasn't memorable =(

he is our next vice president...

What does that matter even if he was going to be? Some guy named Quayle was a VP as well.

Quayle was memorable, I still remember that whole spelling bee thing!

[Fredonia Coldheart]

"fall back" sucks ass. No more golf after work. Not enough daylight thanks to day light savings. Nothing worse than leaving work after its already dark.

Screw the farmers! Help the golfers! Abolish Day Light Savings!

Actually, we are "falling back" to normal hours. Day Light Savings adjusts the time in the summer, not the winter.

[Voronwë]

I'm going to say Cheney didn't remember meeting Edwards because the guy was such a minor player he wasn't memorable =(

whatever makes you feel comfortable to rationalize the guy lieing to your face.

[Marbus]

You know Bush made a comment Friday night that to me resounds his whole administration... "I'm not going to tell you.... cause I still want certian people's support." To me that pretty much sums it up... I'm not going to tell you... because the things he is usually "honest" about wind up being lies anyway...

Marb

[Winnow]

You know Bush made a comment Friday night that to me resounds his whole administration... "I'm not going to tell you.... cause I still want certian people's support." To me that pretty much sums it up... I'm not going to tell you... because the things he is usually "honest" about wind up being lies anyway...

Marb

Did Kerry name the judge he would nominate to the supreme court? Bush dodged that particular question. I stand corrected if Kerry has named who he will be putting in the supreme court.

[Marbus]

That wasn't the point. Kerry did go into much greater detail than Bush did but that point was what he said... it was almost like a slip that I feel defines his administration.

Marb

[Voronwë]

I don't know guys, I thought it was pretty bold of Bush to say that the Dredd Scott case would be a litmus test for any Supreme Court Appointee.

[*~*stragi*~*]

I met David Lee Roth as a concert. Well, we were in the same building!

Cheney's point is...where it counts...when the senate is in session...he hasn't met or seen Sen. Edwards...brushing shoulders with him in buffet lines and prayer events doesn't count! : )

they shook hands bro)

[Marbus]

You made a funny Voronwe Yes it's intersting that he brought that up and many Republicans bring up Lincoln... but wasn't Lincoln a WHIG? Yes I know they eventually "merged" but Lincoln's party is definitely NOT the modern Republican party

Marb

[Winnow]

You made a funny Voronwe Yes it's intersting that he brought that up and many Republicans bring up Lincoln... but wasn't Lincoln a WHIG? Yes I know they eventually "merged" but Lincoln's party is definitely NOT the modern Republican party

Marb

Democrats have always been jackasses though. Why in the hell did they pick a donkey as their mascott?

When Andrew Jackson ran for president in 1828, his opponents tried to label him a "jackass" for his populist views and his slogan, "Let the people rule." Jackson turned it to his advantage by using the donkey on his campaign posters.

Republicans were the first to jackass others!

[Marbus]

From the Whitehouse...

As national politics polarized around Jackson and his opposition, two parties grew out of the old Republican Party--the Democratic Republicans, or Democrats, adhering to Jackson; and the National Republicans, or Whigs, opposing him

In his first Annual Message to Congress, Jackson recommended eliminating the Electoral College. He also tried to democratize Federal officeholding. Already state machines were being built on patronage, and a New York Senator openly proclaimed "that to the victors belong the spoils. . . . "

From the very beginning the Democrats were for the people and the Republicans were for the eletist... not much has really changed has it.

Marb