09/30 Debate: Commentary

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » September 30, 2004, 10:50 pm

This is a lot more interesting than I thought it would be. Kerry just said Israel instead of Iraq! OMGZ FLIP FLOPPING!

Rivera Bladestrike · September 30, 2004, 10:55 pm

I love watching two guys fighting for a job... I'm finding this very entertaining and enjoyable....

more later!

Midnyte_Ragebringer · September 30, 2004, 11:26 pm

LOL

Kerry just fucked up. He said Saddam was a threat. ROFL

If you aren't watching the whole thing. He spent all night reaffirming the fact Saddam was not a threat. Just at the end he rebutted with "Of course he was a threat. That's not the point".

OMG this guy is so pathetic.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » September 30, 2004, 11:31 pm

If you aren't watching the whole thing. He spent all night reaffirming the fact Saddam was not a threat. Just at the end he rebutted with "Of course he was a threat. That's not the point".

Uhh, that's totally wrong. He spent the whole debate acknowledging that Saddam was a threat, but claiming that the president went about fighting that threat in the wrong way.

That said, I thought Bush outperformed Kerry tonight.

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » September 30, 2004, 11:31 pm

I see you only heard what you wanted to hear, midnyte. Not a surprise.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · September 30, 2004, 11:37 pm

I'm wrong. He just made me feel he wouldn't have gone to war if he was president. I guess it's just the way he comes accross. Or maybe I'm just hearing what I want.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » September 30, 2004, 11:37 pm

I was relatively suprised by the unusual clarity in bushe's speaking. He hesitated and stuttered very infrequently compared to the usual.

That aside I think he did a better job tonight. He stood by what he said, and gave his reasons why he was doing so. On the other hand, I felt like Kerry did a lot of this type of thing; "Well I think Bush went about this wrong, I would do it differently".. And a decent portion of times did not say exactly how he would act differently.

I taped it, and I missed the first little bit, but I will have to re-watch it to comment more.

Xzion- · Post by **Xzion-** » September 30, 2004, 11:39 pm

Kerry won the election with this debate.
HE had complete dominance and control over president Bush, Bush had no control over his language, and I would be embarrassed to hear so many umms and stutters out of a drunk-ass friend, let alone our president. He said THE SAME EXACT THING (iraqi people are free, iraqis are better off today) for every fucking question, i have never seen so much diversion.

Kerry eradicated Bush in this debate, at points I saw Kerry having to hold in his laughter due to Bush's udder failure over control of the English language

Xzion- · Post by **Xzion-** » September 30, 2004, 11:40 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Sueven wrote:
If you aren't watching the whole thing. He spent all night reaffirming the fact Saddam was not a threat. Just at the end he rebutted with "Of course he was a threat. That's not the point".
Uhh, that's totally wrong. He spent the whole debate acknowledging that Saddam was a threat, but claiming that the president went about fighting that threat in the wrong way.

That said, I thought Bush outperformed Kerry tonight.
Nope. He said Saddam was not an imminent threat.

He was a minor threat, not an imminent threat, but you ignornat ass cannot differentiate between the two

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » September 30, 2004, 11:42 pm

Umm Xzion considering you think what cows have under them is the same as complete, you should not comment on the English language.

Can we all drop the whiny "Fear it, whittle me might get drafted" shit now. Bush stated " It will be a VOLUNTEER army"

I thought they both did rather poorly.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » September 30, 2004, 11:43 pm

You are the very reason simple slogans were created Mid.

You just don't seem to be able to process anything whatsoever

Bush looked, more than ever, an idiot directed by higher(ie. Cheney) forces.

It's almost hard not to laugh at him. The only reason Kerry can't out and out say, "Did you just listen to that babbling pile of nonsense)? Is that there are tons of simpltons that can only process nonsense who are still undecided.

Seriously. W sounded out and out dumb.

Markulas · Post by **Markulas** » September 30, 2004, 11:43 pm

You guys should all just have sex with either Bush or Kerry. At least it would fulfil your fantasies.

Denadeb · Post by **Denadeb** » September 30, 2004, 11:45 pm

Bush looked very irritated and confused imo. Kerry on the other hand looked more more in control.

Rivera Bladestrike · September 30, 2004, 11:46 pm

Xzion- wrote:Kerry won the election with this debate.
HE had complete dominance and control over president Bush, Bush had no control over his language, and I would be embarrassed to hear so many umms and stutters out of a drunk-ass friend, let alone our president. He said THE SAME EXACT THING (iraqi people are free, iraqis are better off today) for every fucking question, i have never seen so much diversion.

Kerry eradicated Bush in this debate, at points I saw Kerry having to hold in his laughter due to Bush's udder failure over control of the English language

I agree, at least if the people watched the debate. I hope some people come to their sense here after watching this debate. Bush had one angle and that was to attack Kerry's "flip-flopping". While Kerry had a TON of angles to attack him on, and it only culminated with affirming that North Korea was nuclear weapons and Iraq doesn't (which we've all known forever).

Kerry should see a point raise after this debate, Bush had a +8% going into the debate, I think Kerry should see that gap lessen.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · September 30, 2004, 11:53 pm

Nevermind, I was right.

KERRY: What I think troubles a lot of people in our country is that the president has just sort of described one kind of mistake. But what he has said is that, even knowing there were no weapons of mass destruction, even knowing there was no imminent threat, even knowing there was no connection with Al Qaida, he would still have done everything the same way. Those are his words.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » September 30, 2004, 11:54 pm

Well, I think Kerry carried himself and expressed himself better than Bush (trying to be as unbiased as possible). Bush spoke better than I expected he would, but not as good as Kerry. Bush's repeatedly stressing the wrong war, wrong time soundbyte got irritating quickly. Like I said, it was a lot more interesting than I thought it would be.

Rivera Bladestrike · September 30, 2004, 11:55 pm

I anxiously await The Daily Show.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 30, 2004, 11:55 pm

lol, the comments on this thread are great.

Nothing changed. The debate was a wash, basically reaffirming their positions. Those positions have Bush ahead.

Kerry needs to eat coal and shit diamonds on live TV to win this election.

Rivera Bladestrike · September 30, 2004, 11:56 pm

Dregor Thule wrote:Well, I think Kerry carried himself and expressed himself better than Bush (trying to be as unbiased as possible). Bush spoke better than I expected he would, but not as good as Kerry. Bush's repeatedly stressing the wrong war, wrong time soundbyte got irritating quickly. Like I said, it was a lot more interesting than I thought it would be.

I agree with that, Kerry would come up with a new way of attacking Bush nearly every time, while Bush was limited to repeating statements over and over and over again, which became irritating and boring to listen to him speak.

Denadeb · Post by **Denadeb** » September 30, 2004, 11:56 pm

If your going to watch the daily show first you need to get drunk and stoned.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » September 30, 2004, 11:56 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Nevermind, I was right.

KERRY: What I think troubles a lot of people in our country is that the president has just sort of described one kind of mistake. But what he has said is that, even knowing there were no weapons of mass destruction, even knowing there was no imminent threat, even knowing there was no connection with Al Qaida, he would still have done everything the same way. Those are his words.

Here's something that'll blow your mind. Saddam wasn't an imminent threat to the States, but he wasn't a good guy either! OMG, both!

Midnyte_Ragebringer · September 30, 2004, 11:58 pm

Bush came accross like he always has....like a very poor speaker. He is downright awful. Anyone who says anything different is seriously deluded.

It takes a non-asshole to look past the quirks and get to what is really being said by the two.

Kerry looked better, said very little. Bashed a lot. Mixed up his stances. You could even see him trying to remember what is current stance on a situation is. He fucked up at the end. I knew he would.

Bush looked like a bumbling fool, but was strong, convicted and passionate in his words. A President who is willing to make the tough choices that are the right choices despite what an opinion poll might say.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » September 30, 2004, 11:58 pm

A lot of repetition from Bush. Kerry seemed to be more under control with his speaking, but a scripted debate is a waste.

Mak · Post by **Mak** » October 1, 2004, 12:00 am

I guess my issues with Kerry were really personified in this debate, and that is that Kerry says nice wonderful things but I always end up wondering how he's going to do it, such as-

Saying that he will clean up Russia's nuke situation in 4 years. Great! Now tell me how you can do that. Sanctions? Invasion? Buying them all up before the mean men do?

More troops? How? Drafting them? There are recruiting stations everywhere. Also, his assertion that if all goes according to his plan we could start pulling troops out in six months. Hey, that'd be great- I'd love to see that. But, what happens if things don't go according to his plan? What then?

More sanctions for a pre-war Iraq? How would that have hurt Saddam? He wasn't being hurt by sanctions- his people were. How would yet another decade of sanctions have worked?

Xzion- · Post by **Xzion-** » October 1, 2004, 12:00 am

Winnow wrote:lol, the comments on this thread are great.

Nothing changed. The debate was a wash, basically reaffirming their positions. Those positions have Bush ahead.

Kerry needs to eat coal and shit diamonds on live TV to win this election.

No way in hell you honestly believe this bullshit you spew out, you come off as too smart to do so, i dont know what your motives are, but il sure as hell be having fun with you about a month or so from now
(according to midnyte im gay now, so you better watch you for the meaning behind that!)

Hoarmurath · Post by **Hoarmurath** » October 1, 2004, 12:02 am

I'm waiting for Jon Stewart to tell me what my opinion is...

Denadeb · Post by **Denadeb** » October 1, 2004, 12:03 am

What I'm talking about had nothing to do with his actual speaking. I am talking about the way he looked on the cut away shots. I didn't see Kerry fuck up at all actually. He said Sadam was not an imminent threat but he did say he was a threat. There is a diffrence between a threat and an imminent threat. So I don't see how he fucked up with what he said.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » October 1, 2004, 12:04 am

Umm why did Kerry never look at the camera ( and thus at the television viewing audience) until the final question?

Why did Bush use the phrase "hard Work" so many times?

Why are there no decent candidates invited to the debates?

Read Open Debates.org/ and educate yourself![/url]

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 1, 2004, 12:05 am

Xzion- wrote:
Winnow wrote:lol, the comments on this thread are great.

Nothing changed. The debate was a wash, basically reaffirming their positions. Those positions have Bush ahead.

Kerry needs to eat coal and shit diamonds on live TV to win this election.
No way in hell you honestly believe this bullshit you spew out, you come off as too smart to do so, i dont know what your motives are, but il sure as hell be having fun with you about a month or so from now
(according to midnyte im gay now, so you better watch you for the meaning behind that!)

No. He needs to shit diamonds!

The last sentence, in less entertaining form....Kerry needs something dramatic to happen to win, Bush doesn't at this point.

There will be a domestic debate next. Perhaps Kerry will battle there somewhat.

Mak · Post by **Mak** » October 1, 2004, 12:06 am

Denadeb wrote:What I'm talking about had nothing to do with his actual speaking. I am talking about the way he looked on the cut away shots. I didn't see Kerry fuck up at all actually. He said Sadam was not an imminent threat but he did say he was a threat. There is a diffrence between a threat and an imminent threat. So I don't see how he fucked up with what he said.

I was wondering why Kerry kept nodding his head when Bush was talking about flip-flopping and stuff. It's almost like he was agreeing with Bush.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · October 1, 2004, 12:07 am

Kylere wrote:
Why did Bush use the phrase "hard Work" so many times?

Becuase he blows as a speaker? He knows what he wants to say, but is completely incapable of doing so.

Thess · Post by **Thess** » October 1, 2004, 12:08 am

My favorite part was definately when Bush called Kerry on the amount of allies we had - when Kerry was right.

Then later on Bush said 5 party talks with North Korea - towards the end of his statement he said, 6 err 5, and then later on he said 6.

(it is 6 party talks)

Also I think Kerry was the only person in the country that laughed at the Bush twins jokes.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · October 1, 2004, 12:11 am

Thess wrote:My favorite part was definately when Bush called Kerry on the amount of allies we had - when Kerry was right.

Then later on Bush said 5 party talks with North Korea - towards the end of his statement he said, 6 err 5, and then later on he said 6.

(it is 6 party talks)

Yeah his "errs" are so painful. Stern was talking about a good drinking game for the debates but they didn't mention having to drink when Bush "errs", which would really get people messed up fast. That and his lips curl thing.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 1, 2004, 12:16 am

Why were Kerry's hands orange but his face kind of powered white!?

Instead of miss speaking, Bush hesitated almost to the point I thought my satellite had went out and the picture had frozen a few times.

Kerry is a bland speaker so I didn't notice much character to comment on.

Hoarmurath · Post by **Hoarmurath** » October 1, 2004, 12:17 am

Winnow wrote:He needs to shit diamonds!

Yes!

LEHRER: Senator Kerry, what is you position on the economy?

KERRY: Jim, I will, when elected, shit a diamond for every man, woman, and child in this country.

Hell, that would cement my vote.

Drinsic Darkwood · Post by **Drinsic Darkwood** » October 1, 2004, 12:20 am

too bad they didn't ask anything about sovereignty

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » October 1, 2004, 12:22 am

I was wondering why Kerry kept nodding his head when Bush was talking about flip-flopping and stuff. It's almost like he was agreeing with Bush.

He was probably trying not to burst out laughing.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » October 1, 2004, 12:27 am

Kerry did very well...

For those who don't understand the English language please pull out your 3rd grade English book and open to the chapter on adjectives. As someone above was so good to highlight what Kerry said in order to make "their" point they forgot to highlight imminent. Kerry didn't say Saddam wasn't a threat, hell even Clinton said he was a threat, the whole WORLD knows he was a threat but NOT an imminent threat... not a threat worth going to war over until Bin Laden was caught, not a threat worth loosing American lives over until everything else had been done.

Bush to me came across worse tonight than I have ever seen him. All of his points were "flip flop" or "I'm going to do it my way." That's definitely what not I want to hear and not what I think the swing voters want to hear either. I predict a small jump in the polls for Kerry.

Marb

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » October 1, 2004, 12:31 am

Winnow wrote:Why were Kerry's hands orange but his face kind of powered white!?

Heh, I'm going to look for that later tonight in the reviews.

People were bitching about his ridiculous tan, be funny to see him powder it up.

On the note of appearances, was that podium designed for Mutumbo? I mean, Bush isn't a short guy but he was grasping the sides of the podium at shoulder level like he was going to fall into it's terrifying wooden depths.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » October 1, 2004, 12:35 am

Well first responses I've read in international media: Kerry did best in the debate, Bush still expected to win. Oh and btw the last poll I saw had "USA's foreing policy is making the world a more dangerous place" way outnumbering the "safe place", "Best handled by Bush", "Best handled by Kerry" options.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » October 1, 2004, 12:35 am

Marbus wrote:Kerry did very well...

For those who don't understand the English language please pull out your 3rd grade English book and open to the chapter on adjectives. As someone above was so good to highlight what Kerry said in order to make "their" point they forgot to highlight immanent. Kerry didn't say Saddam wasn't a threat, hell even Clinton said he was a threat, the whole WORLD knows he was a threat but NOT an immanent threat... not a threat worth going to war over until Bin Laden was caught, not a threat worth loosing American lives over until everything else had been done.

Bush to me came across worse tonight than I have ever seen him. All of his points were "flip flop" or "I'm going to do it my way." That's definitely what not I want to hear and not what I think the swing voters want to hear either. I predict a small jump in the polls for Kerry.

Marb

umm immanent is not a word, if you are going to rant about word usage, then buy a dictionary

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » October 1, 2004, 12:40 am

My favourite line...

Kerry (pointing to Bush and himself): We didn't need a tax break...

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » October 1, 2004, 12:43 am

Darn it I did use a spell check... you got me there but you know what I was getting at

It's late, I have one kid asleep on me and one crying... it's kind of difficult to type...

Marb

PS - It is a word, so you can buy a dictionary before trying to bust me out, just not the one I was meant to use

Kguku · Post by **Kguku** » October 1, 2004, 12:48 am

Kylere wrote:
Marbus wrote:Kerry did very well...

For those who don't understand the English language please pull out your 3rd grade English book and open to the chapter on adjectives. As someone above was so good to highlight what Kerry said in order to make "their" point they forgot to highlight immanent. Kerry didn't say Saddam wasn't a threat, hell even Clinton said he was a threat, the whole WORLD knows he was a threat but NOT an immanent threat... not a threat worth going to war over until Bin Laden was caught, not a threat worth loosing American lives over until everything else had been done.

Bush to me came across worse tonight than I have ever seen him. All of his points were "flip flop" or "I'm going to do it my way." That's definitely what not I want to hear and not what I think the swing voters want to hear either. I predict a small jump in the polls for Kerry.

Marb

umm immanent is not a word, if you are going to rant about word usage, then buy a dictionary

im·ma·nent Audio pronunciation of "immanent" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (m-nnt)
adj.

1. Existing or remaining within; inherent: believed in a God immanent in humans.
2. Restricted entirely to the mind; subjective.

I think it is a word? :O

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » October 1, 2004, 12:56 am

Okay Kguku I will take that hit, but only if you think Kerry meant immanent, not imminent.

Kguku · Post by **Kguku** » October 1, 2004, 12:59 am

I know Marb used the wrong word, but I just found it funny that you said the other word wasn't even a word

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » October 1, 2004, 1:08 am

I thought Kerry would steamroll past Bush from the start, but I was surprised that Bush seemed to take the lead early. I was really impressed. My favorite quote has to be from Kerry about Bush outsourcing the hunt for Osama to Afganistan warlords. He made multiple points with that phrase containing the "outsourcing" word. Kerry lost ground from the very start but seemed to be feeding off of Bush's temperment. He was really getting upset and that lost points for him in the end. Kerry gained ground towards the end.

Bush was very convincing and I applaud him. I am still voting for Kerry.

Kaldaur · Post by **Kaldaur** » October 1, 2004, 1:10 am

Kylere flip-flopped.

I was impressed with both sides in the debate. Bush didn't seem to do quite as well as Kerry, and the long pause (you know what I'm talking about if you watched it) didn't help Bush, but he had some good points in there. I'm interested for the next one.

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » October 1, 2004, 1:11 am

kerry was nervous as a motherfucker at the beginning of the debate. his hands were shaking like hell, but he kept his voice completely steady and i thought he did alright.

bush looked downright disgusted through most of kerry's responses, and in some of the news commentary i watched after the debate they were talking about "body language" and "the smirk" hahaha.

kerry just seemed more sure of himself throughout the debate. his responses came without hesitation (except for the part where he stammered about war needing to pass the test of world opinion or some shit, wtf). i guess that's mostly, if not entirely, his public speaking skills shining through while bush proved once again that he could bend over and talk with his asshole and be about as impressive while delivering a speech. regardless, i still am not crazy about either candidate, but it was pretty entertaining to watch the two of them go at it. :p

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » October 1, 2004, 1:13 am

Kguku wrote:I know Marb used the wrong word, but I just found it funny that you said the other word wasn't even a word

Yeah, I will take my wording was as effective as either of the major party choices to be the next President. I would have owned either, and so would have at least 10 people that post here.