Perception

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Who knows if he is who he says he is, but it's a very good read and very accurate in my eyes of what is going on right now.

FROM MARINE NOW IN IRAQ

Hello Everyone, I am taking time to ask you all for your help. First off, I'd like to say that this is not a political message. I'm not concerned about domestic politics right now. We have much bigger things to deal with, and we need your help. It seems that despite the tremendous and heroic efforts of the men and women serving here in Iraq to bring much needed peace and stability to this region, we are losing the war of perception with the media and American people.

Our enemy has learned that the key to defeating the mighty American military is by swaying public opinion at home and abroad. We are a people that cherish the democratic system of government and therefore hold the will of the people in the highest regard. We love to criticize ourselves almost to an endless degree, because we care what others think. Our enemies see this as a weakness and are trying to exploit it.

When we ask ourselves questions like, "Why do they hate us?" or "What did we do wrong?" we are playing into our enemies' hands. Our natural tendency to question ourselves is being used against us to undermine our effort to do good in the world.

How far would we have gotten if after the surprise attacks on December 7, 1941 at Pearl Harbor, we would have asked, "Why do the Japanese hate us so much?" or "How can we change ourselves so that they won't do that again?"

Here in Iraq the enemy is trying very hard to portray our efforts as failing and fruitless. They purposely kill innocents and desecrate their bodies in hopes that the people back home will lose the will to fight for liberty. They are betting on our perceived weakness as a thoughtful, considerate people.

Unfortunately our media only serves to further their cause. In an industry that feeds on ratings and bad news, a failure in Iraq would be a goldmine. When our so-called "trusted" American media takes a quote from an Iraqi doctor as the gospel truth over that of the men and women that are daily fighting to protect the right to freedom of press, you know something is wrong.

That doctor claimed that out of 600 Iraqis that were casualties of the fighting, the vast majority of them were women, children and the elderly. This is totally absurd. In the history of man, no one has spent more time and effort, often to the detriment of our own mission, to be more discriminate in our targeting of the enemy than the American military.

The Marines and Soldiers serving in Iraq have gone through extensive training in order to limit the amount of innocent casualties and collateral damage. Yet, despite all of this, our media consistently sides with those who openly lie and directly challenge the honor of our brave heroes fighting for liberty and peace.

What we have to remember is that peace is not defined as an absence of war. It is the presence of liberty, stability and prosperity. In the face of the horrendous tyranny of the former Iraqi regime, the only way true peace was able to come to this region was through force. That is what the American Revolution was all about.

Have we forgotten? Freedom is not free and "peace" without principle is not peace. The peace that so-called "peace advocates" support can only be brought to Iraq through the use of military force. And we are doing it, if only the world will let us! If the American people believe we are failing, even if we are not, then we will ultimately fail. That is why I am asking for your support.

Become a voice of truth in your community. Wherever you are fight the lies of the enemy. Don't buy into the pessimism and apathy that says, "It's hopeless," "They hate us too much," "That part of the world is just too messed up," "It's our fault anyway," "We're to blame," and so forth.

Whether you're in middle school, working at a 9-5 job, retired, or a stay> -at-home Mom you can make a huge difference! There is nothing more powerful than the truth.

So, when you watch the news and see doomsday predictions and spiteful opinions on our efforts over here, you can refute them by knowing that we are doing a tremendous amount of good. Spread the word.

No one is poised to make such an amazing contribution to the everyday lives of Iraqis and the rest of the Arab world than the American Armed Forces. By making this a place where liberty can finally grow, we are making the whole world safer.

Your efforts at home are directly tied to our success. You are the soldiers at home fighting the war of perception. So I'm asking you as a fellow fighting man: do your duty. Stop the attempts of the enemy wherever you are. You are a mighty force for good, because truth is on your side. Together we will win this fight and ensure a better world for the future.

God Bless and Semper Fidelis,
1st. Lt. Robert L. Nofsinger
USMC Ramadi, Iraq

[kyoukan]

hey look, midnyte got another phony mass email from another stupid redneck.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

hey look, midnyte got another phony mass email from another stupid redneck.

Try and focus on the content instead of bashing.

[Cartalas]

hey look, midnyte got another phony mass email from another stupid redneck.

Try and focus on the content instead of bashing.

That not a option Mid, This bitch has so much hate inside her that im sure family members wont even shed a tear when she is gone.

[archeiron]

My first observation is that there is a reference to Pearl Harbor. This is not an appropriate parallel. The Japanese Navy attacked Pearl Harbor in a calculated effort to cripple the US Pacific Fleet and give them free reign in the Pacific.

The 9/11 attacks were coordinated and orchestrated by a terrorist organization based in Afghanistan. The subsequent invasion of Iraq was not a retaliation for those attacks.

[Kelshara]

Who knows if he is who he says he is, but it's a very good read and very accurate in my eyes of what is going on right now.

How would you have the faintest idea of wether it is very accurate or not?

As for the letter itself.. I'd be highly surprised if it is what it claims it is (remember the last one you posted swearing it was the truth and nothing but it?).. and in fact it made me chuckle a bit.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Who knows if he is who he says he is, but it's a very good read and very accurate in my eyes of what is going on right now.

How would you have the faintest idea of wether it is very accurate or not?

As for the letter itself.. I'd be highly surprised if it is what it claims it is (remember the last one you posted swearing it was the truth and nothing but it?).. and in fact it made me chuckle a bit.

I never swore it was the truth.

I believe perception is a big part of a war. I believe the media at large is constantly undermining the war and putting our soldiers in more and more danger everyday. If they continue they could make this another Vietnam.

[archeiron]

The article portrays strong conviction and support for the hard work and determination of the men and women in the military who are stationed in Iraq. This is probably an accurate representation of many of the troops, but their hard work is insufficient to succeed in this task. This is not a test of military might or strength of wills.

We are losing our resolve because it is becoming increasingly difficult to reconcile the facts with our original stated objectives.

The challenge grows with every passing day because we do not appear to have been prepared to rebuild the Iraqi nation after we conquered it.

We face a daunting task because we have do not have widespread international support for our actions.

[Lalanae]

so we should all convince ourselves that the war is going swell when it isn't?

you bring up Vietnam as if the media was at fault for the mess in Vietnam. Never mind that it was a war we shouldn't have been involved in. Never mind that people were outraged for legitimate reasons.

sounds familiar...

[Sueven]

I believe the media at large is constantly undermining the war and putting our soldiers in more and more danger everyday. If they continue they could make this another Vietnam.

I believe that our governments horrific foreign policy is undermining the war and putting our soldiers in more and more danger everyday. They created another Vietnam the day Bush landed on an aircraft carrier and said "Mission Accomplished."

Try placing the blame on the people who make the decisions.

[Xzion-]

hah, i love how conservatives blame there glorious leaders fuck ups on "the liberal media"

[Voronwë]

politicians will blame whoever the people are willing to believe in order to cast themselves in a positive light.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

politicians will blame whoever the people are willing to believe in order to cast themselves in a positive light.

Case in point....Kerry.

[Hoarmurath]

From what I can gather, the article is legit. Although I should qualify this by saying that the article is a little over 5 months old and was written by a Civil Affairs officer, not a grunt. <sarcasm>Looks like those Civil Affairs guys just love to whine and toss around their opinions! He should quit whining about the media and get back to handing out Frisbees!</sarcasm>

[Hoarmurath]

politicians will blame whoever the people are willing to believe in order to cast themselves in a positive light.

Case in point....Kerry.

Case in point....Bush.

[Aaeamdar]

so we should all convince ourselves that the war is going swell when it isn't?

Until Nov. 3, yes. I am sure that is the point of this and other similar snow jobs.

[Raistin]

Its a fucking mess over there. Half my unit came back 1 month ago, and the other half 5 months ago. So Im pretty sure I know what the hell is going on there.

They all agree. Its nothing but a duck range, full of fighting. You cant walk around in Iraq with out a 90% chance of someone shooting at you NO matter what area your in. Theres like only 25% of Iraq thats called a Safe zone and the rest is left to fend for it's self aka the animals run the zoo.

They say the USA's voteing percent is down, cant wait to see all of 5% of Iraq turn out to vote for whoever bush has on the ticket.

You think Iraq is going good? Go over there and look. The media has it right. Sure theres a 5% of the population who are glad the Us are still there, but the other 95% want us out.

Insurgents? Terrirosts? Were fighting with the people who lived under Saddams rule. Not some wave of bad guys. We killing the same people we went there to save.

This is fact. If you dont wish to believe it, sign up and go over there and see for yourself. Or vote for bush, and your 16 year old son or daughter can be drafted in 2 years and go see for you.

You got to be kidding me. Some places are better than before, but its nothing but a mess and its sad people dont see this.

[Fat]

Not to mention the report on the state affairs in Iraq, outlined by the Pentagon (not generally confused with a liberal news source), stated that it was a mess and that control was slipping even further still.

It's asinine to try and argue that things are going "well" in Iraq.

-Alfan

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Not to mention the report on the state affairs in Iraq, outlined by the Pentagon (not generally confused with a liberal news source), stated that it was a mess and that control was slipping even further still.

It's asinine to try and argue that things are going "well" in Iraq.

-Alfan

It's asinine to look past the fact the media has been nagative about this war from day one and been playing into the hands of our enemy since day one. We never had a chance.

[Raistin]

Oh so all the video of when we rolled in to Iraq, with them throwing flowers at us and cheering was part of our Media working with the enemy?

They WERE happy we were there. Now we are just a controling force they see that drops bombs on their familys, even if it wasnt ment to.


Why are you so far out there?

[Markulas]

lol i like the topic saying that it isn't a political message, but the purpose of the letter was to sway your vote.... It had all the typical things warmongers believe in.... "FreeDumb isn't free!!!11oneoneuno!"

And please don't fuck around with history comparing the Iraq war and mentioning Pearl Harbor.

[Dregor Thule]

I think being able to projectile vomit through the internet onto stupid twats like Midnyte who make my stomach turn would be a neat power. Maybe if I lived in his imaginary world... *sigh*

[Niffoni]

Typical.

I count maybe 2 people who are actually trying to intelligently debate the content of this letter regardless of its origin, and what's worse is that they are being ignored in favor of having a dick-waving contest with Kyo.

[kyoukan]

Typical.

I count maybe 2 people who are actually trying to intelligently debate the content of this letter regardless of its origin, and what's worse is that they are being ignored in favor of having a dick-waving contest with Kyo.

The topic itself is undebatable, because it isn't remotely close to the reality if the situation in Iraq. If you want to debate an absurdity based around a fake mass email letter in no way remotely grounded in reality then please my guest.

I'll begin: I completely agree with the entire letter. If the united states was in Iraq for purely benevolent reasons and only trying to do good, and the media was portraying them as evil tyrants fighting a lost cause against the will of the glorious freedom fighters in Iraq in order to make enormous profits off the backs of american lives, I think that would be a bad thing.

[Siji]

Why are you so far out there?

The 2 million dollar question.. of course, he doesn't think he is, so he can't answer you.

[Metanis]

Typical.

I count maybe 2 people who are actually trying to intelligently debate the content of this letter regardless of its origin, and what's worse is that they are being ignored in favor of having a dick-waving contest with Kyo.

The topic itself is undebatable, because it isn't remotely close to the reality if the situation in Iraq. If you want to debate an absurdity based around a fake mass email letter in no way remotely grounded in reality then please my guest.

I'll begin: I completely agree with the entire letter. If the united states was in Iraq for purely benevolent reasons and only trying to do good, and the media was portraying them as evil tyrants fighting a lost cause against the will of the glorious freedom fighters in Iraq in order to make enormous profits off the backs of american lives, I think that would be a bad thing.

You have no more idea of the reality of the situation in Iraq than any other poster on this board.

[Xzion-]

Typical.

I count maybe 2 people who are actually trying to intelligently debate the content of this letter regardless of its origin, and what's worse is that they are being ignored in favor of having a dick-waving contest with Kyo.

The topic itself is undebatable, because it isn't remotely close to the reality if the situation in Iraq. If you want to debate an absurdity based around a fake mass email letter in no way remotely grounded in reality then please my guest.

I'll begin: I completely agree with the entire letter. If the united states was in Iraq for purely benevolent reasons and only trying to do good, and the media was portraying them as evil tyrants fighting a lost cause against the will of the glorious freedom fighters in Iraq in order to make enormous profits off the backs of american lives, I think that would be a bad thing.

You have no more idea of the reality of the situation in Iraq than any other poster on this board.

Someone like Raistin has some real perception about the situation in Iraq. From the only person i know that has served there, and in afghanistan for that matter, being a cousin says both countrys are a complete shithole

[Sionistic]

When we ask ourselves questions like, "Why do they hate us?" or "What did we do wrong?" we are playing into our enemies' hands. Our natural tendency to question ourselves is being used against us to undermine our effort to do good in the world.

Asking "Why do they hate us?" actually helps us by understanding what things we do that anger others. Thus reducing hatred towards us. Asking "what did we do wrong?" is smart, not self-defeating. We understand our mistakes and make sure we dont do them again. The problem is that people sometimes do not think through these questions rationally.

[Xzion-]

When we ask ourselves questions like, "Why do they hate us?" or "What did we do wrong?" we are playing into our enemies' hands. Our natural tendency to question ourselves is being used against us to undermine our effort to do good in the world.

Asking "Why do they hate us?" actually helps us by understanding what things we do that anger others. Thus reducing hatred towards us. Asking "what did we do wrong?" is smart, not self-defeating. We understand our mistakes and make sure we dont do them again. The problem is that people sometimes do not think through these questions rationally.

You dont seem to understand

Neocons dont make mistakes. GW has never made a mistake in his life, hell he himself cant even come up with one. Neocons are born perfict, in the image of god, to question there motives is treason and punishable by death! (or at least will be with four more years of adolf... err bush)

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

The real problem I have with the Iraq situation is that the U.S. does not want to be fighting now. When Saddam's people fell, we wanted to do nothing more than help rebuild what we destroyed.

Let me pose that to you liberals who think Bush is evil. If a multination force came in and deposed all the conservatives and then was trying to rebuild the country and kick start the economy that had been ravaged for years, would you be bombing yourselves and anything they had just repaired? Would you be kidnapping the repair people and murdering them? How stupid does that sound?

[kyoukan]

The real problem I have with the Iraq situation is that the U.S. does not want to be fighting now. When Saddam's people fell, we wanted to do nothing more than help rebuild what we destroyed.

so you'd have no problem with me burning down your house and killing a family member or two as long as I promised to help you rebuild it?

[Crav]

The real problem I have with the Iraq situation is that the U.S. does not want to be fighting now. When Saddam's people fell, we wanted to do nothing more than help rebuild what we destroyed.

Let me pose that to you liberals who think Bush is evil. If a multination force came in and deposed all the conservatives and then was trying to rebuild the country and kick start the economy that had been ravaged for years, would you be bombing yourselves and anything they had just repaired? Would you be kidnapping the repair people and murdering them? How stupid does that sound?

Actually the real problem is that we had no plan for what to do after we deposed Saddam. I don't think anyone in their right mind thought that all the Iraqi people were going to peacefully accept change and an occupying force, yet that was what Rumsfeld kept spouting off. Even when the military leaders who had conducted occupation operations in Kosovo told them that the plan was lacking and that more ground troops were needed it was ignored.

I think we can all agree that we would rather be building up the country than having to pay for the same ground we had already won, but unfortunately our lack of planning has not allowed for this.

As far as what would happen if there was an occupying force in America, I can only say that I doubt most Americans would take too kindly to it and a lot would fight.

[Niffoni]

I agree that it's important that we stop questioning where the hatred is coming from and why people hate each other. If we keep asking questions, we might find solutions, and that would result in... uh... er... Well I guess for one thing we wouldn't see Tom Ridge shitting himself on TV anymore... er... and I'm sure there are other disadvantages too.

[Xyun]

It's asinine to look past the fact the media has been nagative about this war from day one and been playing into the hands of our enemy since day one. We never had a chance.

What exactly do you expect from the media you nitwit? You criticize the media's representation of the situation as if it is inaccurate.

[Nick]

Goerge Bush duel to the dealth tactic is indeed the pwn, how insightful of you you guys to realise this!!!! omg where would the world be if the good ol USA wasnt here to show us to the promised land~


Indeed,

"Neocons" who are vomiting forth stupidity, you're getting carried away with your countries age old inflated sense of ego, surely as independent thinkers you would be able to see past the overtly patriotic spin and conditioning that no doubt your fragile little minds are repeatedly being raped with. Or..... alternatively, not. As the case appears to be.



Grats!!!!1111

[Raistin]

Seriously. Step back and think here.

If everything in Iraq is all rosey and going as planned, tell me why The active military can not retain active duty members. I can understand some people being worried about going in to a combat zone. But all of the 25% of the armed forces not wanting to re sign up are people who are scared of comabt? No. They know there is no plan, they know there is no hope for Iraq with our current leaders.

Hell even the National guard will be 70% under over the past 2 years. They have no retention. Out of a 200 person unit, 65 members with 10+ years in the guard have decided not to re enlist.These are people who are close to retirement from the military. Why would they just throw away all thoese years if they knew they had any hope of restoring Iraq?They wont even be shipped back till 2 years from now. Yet they still dont want to take the chance to stay in the guard with leaders who dont know what they are doing.
Whatever remarks you want to say about National Guard members, just remember they were also 60% of the invasion force.

This will be the first year, a Rep Pres will not carry the military vote.

[vn_Tanc]

Let me pose that to you liberals who think Bush is evil. If a multination force came in and deposed all the conservatives and then was trying to rebuild the country and kick start the economy that had been ravaged for years, would you be bombing yourselves and anything they had just repaired? Would you be kidnapping the repair people and murdering them?

The (predictably) total preposterousness of your straw man aside, no _I_ wouldn't. But all you neocon cheerleaders would and be screaming about defending the bible, the american way, the sanctity of marriage and your right to oppress homos along the way.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

The real problem I have with the Iraq situation is that the U.S. does not want to be fighting now. When Saddam's people fell, we wanted to do nothing more than help rebuild what we destroyed.

so you'd have no problem with me burning down your house and killing a family member or two as long as I promised to help you rebuild it?

Am I being abused and feel a threat to my life from the family members? If so, then come on in and do the dirty work and get rid of them for me.

The (predictably) total preposterousness of your straw man aside, no _I_ wouldn't.

You can call me a neocon for whatever reason you have found to determine that I am one....but I wouldn't either. I can readily admit that I don't think Bush has handled things in a way that I would call "good". I don't thik he has done it terribly either. Any time you are involved in the Middle East, there is no winning. I still cannot understand why the Iraqis would fight against us during the rebuilding phase when they wanted us there to get rid of Saddam.

[Nick]

Some Iraqi's did, some didn't, you cannot blanket statement a whole country.

It is like me turning around and calling all Americans warmongering fuckbags when we know that thats not the case.

You are forgetting to acknowledge reality.

:D:D:D:D:D

[Kluden]

That emails got to be a fake. I don't know a single serviceman or woman that talks or writes like that. Our soldiers are more intelligent than that (atleast the marines, naval, and air force folk I work with). It is a joke one wouuld take a letter like that seriously.

I do find it funny how you bush backers refuse to respond to anything Raistin says (atleast respond with substance that is). Being a serviceman, you obviously can't disagree with him....or you would say so, right?

[Nick]

Double post retardedness transforms into supar pharm!

[vn_Tanc]

You can call me a neocon for whatever reason

If you're not a pussy liberal you're a redneck neocon and vice versa. That's the way it works round these parts.

[Hoarmurath]

That emails got to be a fake.

I don't see why people think this e-mail is a fake. There is certainly a 1LT Robert L. Nofsinger in Iraq. He was <a href="https://lnweb1.manpower.usmc.mil/manpow ... ">promoted to 1LT</a> on 29 March 2004, shortly before this article appeared on the Internet. Ironically, it took a couple of weeks for his promotion orders to get to him, and there are two Marine Corps News articles (<a href="http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000. ... t">here</a> and <a href="http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000. ... t">here</a>) dated 11 April 2004 where they talk about the guy (still a 2LT at the time, presumably waiting for his promotion order to arrive).

So for this article to be fake, someone would have had to forge the article using LT Nofsinger's name, unit, job title, etc. It seems far more likely that the article is genuine.

[Atokal]

<---------------------------------

I think being able to projectile vomit through the internet onto stupid twats like Midnyte who make my stomach turn would be a neat power. Maybe if I lived in his imaginary world... *sigh*

[*~*stragi*~*]

Who knows if he is who he says he is, but it's a very good read and very accurate in my eyes of what is going on right now.

How would you have the faintest idea of wether it is very accurate or not?

As for the letter itself.. I'd be highly surprised if it is what it claims it is (remember the last one you posted swearing it was the truth and nothing but it?).. and in fact it made me chuckle a bit.

I never swore it was the truth.

I believe perception is a big part of a war. I believe the media at large is constantly undermining the war and putting our soldiers in more and more danger everyday. If they continue they could make this another Vietnam.

I totally agree that public perception is a huge part of any war, but this is already another Vietnam tbh. Except this time instead of just pissing off our country, we pissed off the world.

[Cartalas]

<---------------------------------

I think being able to projectile vomit through the internet onto stupid twats like Midnyte who make my stomach turn would be a neat power. Maybe if I lived in his imaginary world... *sigh*

Wow Jenny Craig is working for my little Ton of fun.

[Kaldaur]

Way to go, guys. Instead of actually trying to defend your point, you attack the posters. Nice picture Atokal, what the fuck is your problem? Are you that unable to form a coherent thought and actually argue, so you're forced to pull this high school shit? Grow up.

[Sylvus]

<---------------------------------

Does the comedy ever stop with you?

[miir]

<---------------------------------

Does the comedy ever stop with you?

Oooooh....

[Atokal]

Way to go, guys. Instead of actually trying to defend your point, you attack the posters. Nice picture Atokal, what the fuck is your problem? Are you that unable to form a coherent thought and actually argue, so you're forced to pull this high school shit? Grow up.

Hey pal glad to see you stepping out of the asylum for a moment to make a comment. Once again have a look at what Mr. Dregor posted then go ahead and have an opinion.

How do you defend your position against someone who says they want to projectile vomit on the original poster??? I merely connected the dots so eloquently placed by Dregor. Say projectile vomit to anyone and they will think of Monty Python's Character or the kid in Stand By Me.

Hey Sylvus, perhaps child molestation is funny in your part of the world but where I come from it is disgusting.