About Giuliani

[Sueven]

Can anyone give me a summary of this guys politics, beyond the fact that he was mayor during 9/11?

I know that he created a lot of strife with the New York black community based on accusations of racial insensitivity. He successfuly reduced crime, but alienated a number of minorities and civil rights leaders in the process.

He has claimed that the war on drugs should be a primary part of our foreign policy. He supports school vouchers. He is pro tax cut He is pro Iraq war. He's religious. He is, however, pro-choice.

I also feel that he demonstrated strong leadership after 9/11. He dealt with the crisis very well, in my view.

This is all I know about Rudy. My view of him has always been as a strong conservative who has widespread appeal because, first, he was mayor of New York during 9/11, and second, he handled it pretty well.

But then I see quotes like this:

Seems like hel be too old to run, im hoping theyl put out Guiliani or if situation permits, ah-nuld, start a new wave of social liberalism in the party, and america for that manner that will discredit the regressive religious right

So my question is: How the hell is this guy socially liberal? What are his positions, and how do they differ from the current administration? Do the groups that he alienated during his time as mayor accept him now? Is there substance to his politics, or is he simply an icon?

[Xzion]

from what i understand hes pro gay rights, pro choice,pro enviornmental policys, pro gun control etc
hes always been associated with the rare "liberal" wing of the republican party, but on the economy and foreghn policy i guess he would be a mainstream republican, although i dont know too much about his views there

[Kelshara]

So you don't know too much about his policies yet you hope he runs? And people wonder why this country is going to hell..

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

So you don't know too much about his policies yet you hope he runs? And people wonder why this country is going to hell..

Kerry has 45%+ of the vote in polls and yet no one knows what the fuck he really thinks on a ny issue what so ever.

[kyoukan]

name any issue in this political campaign and I will post what kerry's position is right from his website. we just went over this two days ago. even fucking goldfish have a longer memory than you.

just because you keep blabbering like a fucking idiot over it doesn't make it true.

[Metanis]

So you don't know too much about his policies yet you hope he runs? And people wonder why this country is going to hell..

Kerry has 45%+ of the vote in polls and yet no one knows what the fuck he really thinks on a ny issue what so ever.

Of course that's because Kerry don't know what he thinks until his handlers hand him a position paper...

[Xzion]

So you don't know too much about his policies yet you hope he runs? And people wonder why this country is going to hell..

no i dont, but from what i do know he seems like a moderate...if he was to run i would obviously be better informed and make a descision based on all of his issues, hes the ex godamn mayor of new york...how the hell am i supposed to know about all of his foreghn policy views or other issues
Either way im sure it would be better then a mccain or cheney,and chances are better then worse that i would vote against the republicans anyways

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

name any issue in this political campaign and I will post what kerry's position is right from his website. we just went over this two days ago. even fucking goldfish have a longer memory than you.

just because you keep blabbering like a fucking idiot over it doesn't make it true.

Okay. The war in Iraq. It may take some time to post all of his positions but go ahead.

Or ummm how about his view on cutting the cost of medicare. You might find some quotes saying how he is for it, but you'll find he voted against it. LOL

[Sueven]

Hey Midnyte, could you tell me anything about Rudy Giuliani's policies please?

[Kaldaur]

Right, that was the point of the thread, wasn't it?

[Silvarel Mistmoon]

Sueven did you see him speak at the convention? If not look up his speech. You might get a little insight on his feelings towards your questions.
I know before 9/11 he was in the news a lot. He had cheated on his wife I believe and he was in the hot seat about that.
It seemed to me that he really stepped up on 9/11, it was like he was a different person.

[Tenuvil]

Giuliani is one of those rare politicians that puts his constituency ahead of his own needs and in doing so elevates his own stature.

I was very sad to see his Senate race disrupted because of prostate cancer and I hope he returns to political life sometime in the future.

[Kelshara]

Of course that's because Kerry don't know what he thinks until his handlers hand him a position paper...

Now THAT is funny coming from a Bush worshipper!

[Sueven]

Silv: I did read his speech. It was a very good speech (although I wish he wouldn't reference religion so much). It did not, however, tell me anything about his politics, which is partially why I made this thread.

[Krimson Klaw]

name any issue in this political campaign and I will post what kerry's position is right from his website. we just went over this two days ago. even fucking goldfish have a longer memory than you.

just because you keep blabbering like a fucking idiot over it doesn't make it true.

Okay. The war in Iraq. It may take some time to post all of his positions but go ahead.

Or ummm how about his view on cutting the cost of medicare. You might find some quotes saying how he is for it, but you'll find he voted against it. LOL

Haha ok that was good.

[Winnow]

When dealing with Kerry and his positions on issues, you only need ask one question: What position will get him elected?

Change that position as the weekly survey results dictate.

[Krimson Klaw]

I still pick him over Bush. Flip flopping is not as bad as war mongering. A cliche for you, I'll pick the lesser of two evils...

[Winnow]

I still pick him over Bush. Flip flopping is not as bad as war mongering. A cliche for you, I'll pick the lesser of two evils...

Changing your mind is ok, changing your position to do whatever it takes to get elected is a little different. I'm am being a hypocrite here though. You need to be willing to kill your own mother these days to get elected.

You take Flipper. I'll take the Killer Whale.

[Sueven]

Is there a single fucking person on this board who can tell me anything about Rudy Giuliani's politics?

[Thess]

Giuliani has an (R) next to his name so he is someone sent by God to protect us.

Seriously though, he used to be a democrat - he helped get the homeless off the streets in NYC. He arrested them.

http://www.issues2000.org/senate/Rudy_Giuliani.htm should give you more information

[Winnow]

Is there a single fucking person on this board who can tell me anything about Rudy Giuliani's politics?

I don't know much about him but you can try here:

http://www.issues2000.org/Senate/Rudy_Giuliani.htm

It may be a little old though.

[Winnow]

doh! beat me by one minute!

Someone teach Sueven to google!

[Thess]

doh! beat me by one minute!

Someone teach Sueven to google!

You lose.

[Winnow]

doh! beat me by one minute!

Someone teach Sueven to google!

You lose.

I'm slaving away here at work. That gives me a 2 minute handicap on response times.

Win!

[Sirton]

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/people/ ... ofile.htmlprofile

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudy_Giulianiprofile




Heres the best site i can find for you bro.
http://www.issues2000.org/Economic/Rudy ... Reform.htmIssues on the bottom right...Rudy Giuliani on other issues: then it has a list of em.


http://www.issues2000.org/Senate/Rudy_G ... eMatch.htmA quick chart to look at, on issues.

[Sueven]

I read that. It was actually where I pulled the fact that he thinks the drug war should be an integral part of foreign policy from. Unfortunately, it doesn't really say anything substantial.

On Civil Rights:

Anti-Catholic art is disgusting; appoints decency council. (Feb 2001)
Brooklyn Museum closed due to lease rules, not censorship. (Oct 1999)
Free speech for private expression, not publicly-funded art. (Oct 1999)
No taxpayer dollars for offensive art. (Oct 1999)

Well, that doesn't tell me anything useful.

The page also claims that there is "no stance on record" on issues of corporate law, the environment, foreign policy, free trade, government reform, health care, homeland security, immigration or social security. These are important issues.

I don't really give a shit if no one knows anything about Rudy Giuliani. I can find out for myself with a little work. I'm just honestly totally shocked. This is the guy who was Time's Man of the Year in 2001. A key speaker at the RNC. One of the leading figureheads of the Republican party, and a man that is widely respected and admired by many Americans, including many on this board.

And you're telling me that no one knows a fucking thing about him?

I always felt kind of bad about my lack of knowledge about him, because everyone else seemed to have such strong opinions about him, and there was really nothing I could say. Now it seems to be the case that everyone's strong opinions are just ignorant, and I was the smart one all along for not idolizing a man without knowing shit about him.

And yes, he was in hot water for his extramarital affair. Part of that was because he divorced his wife on television. She found out about it by watching the news, if I recall correctly.

Don't any of you conservatives know anything about one of the primary symbols of your movement/party?

Edit: Reading through Sirton's stuff now.

[Sueven]

Upon further review (reading what Sirton linked) it appears to me that he has never elaborated any particular political agenda beyond the local issues that faced New York during his campaign. Perhaps I (and apparently everyone else on this board) do not suffer from ignorance, but we simply know what there is to know, while most of his stances remain unelaborated.

So here's a question:

Why does such a large portion of the American public venerate a man whose politics they know very little about?

[Thess]

His leadership during 9/11 was absolutely amazing. People feel comforted in knowing just that.

[Winnow]

So here's a question:

Why does such a large portion of the American public venerate a man whose politics they know very little about?

Because his mug was all over the TV during 911 and he did a good job handling the crisis. There's nothing deeper to it. If John Kerry was the Mayor of New York Sept 11, 2001, he'd be our next president.

[Thess]

He used the cabaret law for things - (Prohibition-era cabaret law that bans dancing in bars without a license for it. By the ‘60s, it was only used against gay bars, and that era ended after the June 27, 1969 raid on the Stonewall Inn. But Giuliani--lionized as the mayor who "saved" New York--resurrected it.)

He closed down sex shops

In the summer of 1998, 70 cops invaded an East Village rock club to shut down a Saturday night dance party. Neighborhood bars have been fined $1,500 because people were dancing to the jukebox.

http://www.tenant.net/Tengroup/Metcounc ... liani.html

[Sueven]

Because his mug was all over the TV during 911 and he did a good job handling the crisis. There's nothing deeper to it. If John Kerry was the Mayor of New York Sept 11, 2001, he'd be our next president.

Am I the only person who thinks that this is not a sufficient reason to lionize someone, and certainly not to throw support behind a run for national office?

[Sirton]

His parting image was that of a big-hearted hero of the city, credited with lifting spirits and organizing tireless recovery efforts following the September 11 terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center.

As New York mourned the loss of thousands of lives and cleaned up thousands of tons of debris, Giuliani steadfastly held news conferences, gave interviews and attended funerals and charity functions, spreading his appeal for fortitude, calm and unity.

But on September 11, everything changed. In New York's darkest hour, Giuliani became one of its shining lights, showing that he has much more to give to the city.

Some paragraphs I took out from CNNs profile of Rudy that I feel are the main reasons and should be stressed for your question. I think his image is burned into many Americans brains with 9/11 and he was burned in as one of the Heros and leaders that brought like they said fotitude, calm and unity.

Hes a Hero to many Americans. I personally hope he never runs for office, because Id hate to see the media try to destroy him. One thing they love more than heros being created is to destroy them....It gets good ratings.

His politics people dont care about so much or look into them. Its that he is a hero to many of them. A personal example: I like John Glenn, hes a democrat is about all I know about him recently. I dont know anything about his issues other than hes a democrat. Hes a Hero to me. I admire him and respect him. If he was abit younger and running in my district I would give serious thought on voting for him. Of coarse Id look into the issues for my final judgement. Rudy has a similar appeal to many.

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/people/ ... ofile.html

[Sirton]

Am I the only person who thinks that this is not a sufficient reason to lionize someone, and certainly not to throw support behind a run for national office?

I agree that is not sufficient reason to throw support behind him for a run for national office. If he ran he would go through the primary's and would have to address his issues on the national scale. Not just in NYC. Hes not running for president though.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

So here's a question:

Why does such a large portion of the American public venerate a man whose politics they know very little about?

Because his mug was all over the TV during 911 and he did a good job handling the crisis. There's nothing deeper to it. If John Kerry was the Mayor of New York Sept 11, 2001, he'd be our next president.

I'm not so sure of that. Rudy is real. He speaks his mind. He is what you see. Kerry doesn't have that in his make-up. I am a big fan of Rudy's because he is so passionate and real. He doesn't play polls and he doesn't play the political correctness game. I hope he runs for President in 2008. During the primaries we can then learn more about his National vision as opposed to just his New York vision which is as Sueven said all we really have to go by at this time. I look forward to it. He could be some one a large majority of the populace can really get behind.

[Xzion]

So here's a question:

Why does such a large portion of the American public venerate a man whose politics they know very little about?

Because his mug was all over the TV during 911 and he did a good job handling the crisis. There's nothing deeper to it. If John Kerry was the Mayor of New York Sept 11, 2001, he'd be our next president.

I'm not so sure of that. Rudy is real. He speaks his mind. He is what you see. Kerry doesn't have that in his make-up. I am a big fan of Rudy's because he is so passionate and real. He doesn't play polls and he doesn't play the political correctness game. I hope he runs for President in 2008. During the primaries we can then learn more about his National vision as opposed to just his New York vision which is as Sueven said all we really have to go by at this time. I look forward to it. He could be some one a large majority of the populace can really get behind.

George W Bush has flip flopped on the issues just as much as John Kerry has, if not more so...he is a puppet i dont understand why you must so passionatly attack Kerry, whenever someone brings up an argument about Bush, ALL ANY Bush supporter here does is attack John Kerry, they never support Bush,(short of hes not an evil liberal flip flopper like john kerry) maybe because they cant

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

So here's a question:

Why does such a large portion of the American public venerate a man whose politics they know very little about?

Because his mug was all over the TV during 911 and he did a good job handling the crisis. There's nothing deeper to it. If John Kerry was the Mayor of New York Sept 11, 2001, he'd be our next president.

I'm not so sure of that. Rudy is real. He speaks his mind. He is what you see. Kerry doesn't have that in his make-up. I am a big fan of Rudy's because he is so passionate and real. He doesn't play polls and he doesn't play the political correctness game. I hope he runs for President in 2008. During the primaries we can then learn more about his National vision as opposed to just his New York vision which is as Sueven said all we really have to go by at this time. I look forward to it. He could be some one a large majority of the populace can really get behind.

George W Bush has flip flopped on the issues just as much as John Kerry has, if not more so...he is a puppet i dont understand why you must so passionatly attack Kerry, whenever someone brings up an argument about Bush, ALL ANY Bush supporter here does is attack John Kerry, they never support Bush,(short of hes not an evil liberal flip flopper like john kerry) maybe because they cant

If you could post continual flip-flopping changes of position uqual or greater than Kerry's in the last 2 years, I'd join in on the laughter. Please don't say things like that when you have to proof what so ever. It makes you no better than Dan Rather with memo gate and Jesse Jackson with his bullshit about black voter suppresion and Al Gore with his claims that Bush lied and betrayed Americans. It's irresponsible and only goes to further cause Kerry to fall behind.

[Thess]

So here's a question:

Why does such a large portion of the American public venerate a man whose politics they know very little about?

Because his mug was all over the TV during 911 and he did a good job handling the crisis. There's nothing deeper to it. If John Kerry was the Mayor of New York Sept 11, 2001, he'd be our next president.

I'm not so sure of that. Rudy is real. He speaks his mind. He is what you see. Kerry doesn't have that in his make-up. I am a big fan of Rudy's because he is so passionate and real. He doesn't play polls and he doesn't play the political correctness game. I hope he runs for President in 2008. During the primaries we can then learn more about his National vision as opposed to just his New York vision which is as Sueven said all we really have to go by at this time. I look forward to it. He could be some one a large majority of the populace can really get behind.

George W Bush has flip flopped on the issues just as much as John Kerry has, if not more so...he is a puppet i dont understand why you must so passionatly attack Kerry, whenever someone brings up an argument about Bush, ALL ANY Bush supporter here does is attack John Kerry, they never support Bush,(short of hes not an evil liberal flip flopper like john kerry) maybe because they cant

If you could post continual flip-flopping changes of position uqual or greater than Kerry's in the last 2 years, I'd join in on the laughter. Please don't say things like that when you have to proof what so ever. It makes you no better than Dan Rather with memo gate and Jesse Jackson with his bullshit about black voter suppresion and Al Gore with his claims that Bush lied and betrayed Americans. It's irresponsible and only goes to further cause Kerry to fall behind.

President Bush: Flip-Flopper-In-Chief

September 2, 2004, Updated
Download Poster

From the beginning, George W. Bush has made his own credibility a central issue. On 10/11/00, then-Gov. Bush said: "I think credibility is important.It is going to be important for the president to be credible with Congress, important for the president to be credible with foreign nations." But President Bush's serial flip-flopping raises serious questions about whether Congress and foreign leaders can rely on what he says.

1. Social Security Surplus

BUSH PLEDGES NOT TO TOUCH SOCIAL SECURITY SURPLUS... "We're going to keep the promise of Social Security and keep the government from raiding the Social Security surplus." [President Bush, 3/3/01]

...BUSH SPENDS SOCIAL SECURITY SURPLUS The New York Times reported that "the president's new budget uses Social Security surpluses to pay for other programs every year through 2013, ultimately diverting more than $1.4 trillion in Social Security funds to other purposes." [The New York Times, 2/6/02]

2. Patient's Right to Sue

GOVERNOR BUSH VETOES PATIENTS' RIGHT TO SUE... "Despite his campaign rhetoric in favor of a patients' bill of rights, Bush fought such a bill tooth and nail as Texas governor, vetoing a bill coauthored by Republican state Rep. John Smithee in 1995. He... constantly opposed a patient's right to sue an HMO over coverage denied that resulted in adverse health effects." [Salon, 2/7/01]

...CANDIDATE BUSH PRAISES TEXAS PATIENTS' RIGHT TO SUE... "We're one of the first states that said you can sue an HMO for denying you proper coverage... It's time for our nation to come together and do what's right for the people. And I think this is right for the people. You know, I support a national patients' bill of rights, Mr. Vice President. And I want all people covered. I don't want the law to supersede good law like we've got in Texas." [Governor Bush, 10/17/00]

...PRESIDENT BUSH'S ADMINISTRATION ARGUES AGAINST RIGHT TO SUE "To let two Texas consumers, Juan Davila and Ruby R. Calad, sue their managed-care companies for wrongful denials of medical benefits ‘would be to completely undermine' federal law regulating employee benefits, Assistant Solicitor General James A. Feldman said at oral argument March 23. Moreover, the administration's brief attacked the policy rationale for Texas's law, which is similar to statutes on the books in nine other states." [Washington Post, 4/5/04]

3. Tobacco Buyout

BUSH SUPPORTS CURRENT TOBACCO FARMERS' QUOTA SYSTEM... "They've got the quota system in place -- the allotment system -- and I don't think that needs to be changed." [President Bush, 5/04]

...BUSH ADMINISTRATION WILL SUPPORT FEDERAL BUYOUT OF TOBACCO QUOTAS "The administration is open to a buyout." [White House spokeswoman Jeanie Mamo, 6/18/04]

4. North Korea

BUSH WILL NOT OFFER NUCLEAR NORTH KOREA INCENTIVES TO DISARM... "We developed a bold approach under which, if the North addressed our long-standing concerns, the United States was prepared to take important steps that would have significantly improved the lives of the North Korean people. Now that North Korea's covert nuclear weapons program has come to light, we are unable to pursue this approach." [President's Statement, 11/15/02]

...BUSH ADMINISTRATION OFFERS NORTH KOREA INCENTIVES TO DISARM"Well, we will work to take steps to ease their political and economic isolation. So there would be -- what you would see would be some provisional or temporary proposals that would only lead to lasting benefit after North Korea dismantles its nuclear programs. So there would be some provisional or temporary efforts of that nature." [White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan, 6/23/04]

5. Abortion

BUSH SUPPORTS A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE... "Bush said he...favors leaving up to a woman and her doctor the abortion question." [The Nation, 6/15/00, quoting the Lubbock Avalanche-Journal, 5/78]

...BUSH OPPOSES A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE "I am pro-life." [Governor Bush, 10/3/00]

6. OPEC

BUSH PROMISES TO FORCE OPEC TO LOWER PRICES... "What I think the president ought to do [when gas prices spike] is he ought to get on the phone with the OPEC cartel and say we expect you to open your spigots...And the president of the United States must jawbone OPEC members to lower the price." [President Bush, 1/26/00]

...BUSH REFUSES TO LOBBY OPEC LEADERS With gas prices soaring in the United States at the beginning of 2004, the Miami Herald reported the president refused to "personally lobby oil cartel leaders to change their minds." [Miami Herald, 4/1/04]

7. Iraq Funding

BUSH SPOKESMAN DENIES NEED FOR ADDITIONAL FUNDS FOR THE REST OF 2004... "We do not anticipate requesting supplemental funding for '04" [White House Budget Director Joshua Bolton, 2/2/04]

...BUSH REQUESTS ADDITIONAL FUNDS FOR IRAQ FOR 2004 "I am requesting that Congress establish a $25 billion contingency reserve fund for the coming fiscal year to meet all commitments to our troops." [President Bush, Statement by President, 5/5/04]

8. Condoleeza Rice Testimony

BUSH SPOKESMAN SAYS RICE WON'T TESTIFY AS 'A MATTER OF PRINCIPLE'... "Again, this is not her personal preference; this goes back to a matter of principle. There is a separation of powers issue involved here. Historically, White House staffers do not testify before legislative bodies. So it's a matter of principle, not a matter of preference." [White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan, 3/9/04]

...BUSH ORDERS RICE TO TESTIFY: "Today I have informed the Commission on Terrorist Attacks Against the United States that my National Security Advisor, Dr. Condoleezza Rice, will provide public testimony." [President Bush, 3/30/04]

9. Science

BUSH PLEDGES TO ISSUE REGULATIONS BASED ON SCIENCE..."I think we ought to have high standards set by agencies that rely upon science, not by what may feel good or what sounds good." [then-Governor George W. Bush, 1/15/00]

...BUSH ADMINISTRATION REGULATIONS IGNORE SCIENCE "60 leading scientists—including Nobel laureates, leading medical experts, former federal agency directors and university chairs and presidents—issued a statement calling for regulatory and legislative action to restore scientific integrity to federal policymaking. According to the scientists, the Bush administration has, among other abuses, suppressed and distorted scientific analysis from federal agencies, and taken actions that have undermined the quality of scientific advisory panels." [Union of Concerned Scientists, 2/18/04]

10. Ahmed Chalabi

BUSH INVITES CHALABI TO STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESS...President Bush also met with Chalabi during his brief trip to Iraq last Thanksgiving [White House Documents 1/20/04, 11/27/03]

...BUSH MILITARY ASSISTS IN RAID OF CHALABI'S HOUSE "U.S. soldiers raided the home of America's one-time ally Ahmad Chalabi on Thursday and seized documents and computers." [Washington Post, 5/20/04]

11. Department of Homeland Security

BUSH OPPOSES THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY..."So, creating a Cabinet office doesn't solve the problem. You still will have agencies within the federal government that have to be coordinated. So the answer is that creating a Cabinet post doesn't solve anything." [White House spokesman Ari Fleischer, 3/19/02]

...BUSH SUPPORTS THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY "So tonight, I ask the Congress to join me in creating a single, permanent department with an overriding and urgent mission: securing the homeland of America and protecting the American people." [President Bush, Address to the Nation, 6/6/02]

12. Weapons of Mass Destruction

BUSH SAYS WE FOUND THE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION..."We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories...for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them." [President Bush, Interview in Poland, 5/29/03]

...BUSH SAYS WE HAVEN'T FOUND WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION "David Kay has found the capacity to produce weapons.And when David Kay goes in and says we haven't found stockpiles yet, and there's theories as to where the weapons went. They could have been destroyed during the war. Saddam and his henchmen could have destroyed them as we entered into Iraq. They could be hidden. They could have been transported to another country, and we'll find out." [President Bush, Meet the Press, 2/7/04]

13. Free Trade

BUSH SUPPORTS FREE TRADE... "I believe strongly that if we promote trade, and when we promote trade, it will help workers on both sides of this issue." [President Bush in Peru, 3/23/02]

...BUSH SUPPORTS RESTRICTIONS ON TRADE "In a decision largely driven by his political advisers, President Bush set aside his free-trade principles last year and imposed heavy tariffs on imported steel to help out struggling mills in Pennsylvania and West Virginia, two states crucial for his reelection." [Washington Post, 9/19/03]

14. Osama Bin Laden

BUSH WANTS OSAMA DEAD OR ALIVE... "I want justice. And there's an old poster out West, I recall, that says, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive.'" [President Bush, on Osama Bin Laden, 09/17/01]

...BUSH DOESN'T CARE ABOUT OSAMA "I don't know where he is.You know, I just don't spend that much time on him... I truly am not that concerned about him."[President Bush, Press Conference, 3/13/02]

15. The Environment

BUSH SUPPORTS MANDATORY CAPS ON CARBON DIOXIDE... "[If elected], Governor Bush will work to...establish mandatory reduction targets for emissions of four main pollutants: sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide, mercury and carbon dioxide." [Bush Environmental Plan, 9/29/00]

...BUSH OPPOSES MANDATORY CAPS ON CARBON DIOXIDE "I do not believe, however, that the government should impose on power plants mandatory emissions reductions for carbon dioxide, which is not a 'pollutant' under the Clean Air Act." [President Bush, Letter to Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE), 3/13/03]

16. WMD Commission

BUSH RESISTS AN OUTSIDE INVESTIGATION ON WMD INTELLIGENCE FAILURE... "The White House immediately turned aside the calls from Kay and many Democrats for an immediate outside investigation, seeking to head off any new wide-ranging election-year inquiry that might go beyond reports already being assembled by congressional committees and the Central Intelligence Agency." [NY Times, 1/29/04]

...BUSH SUPPORTS AN OUTSIDE INVESTIGATION ON WMD INTELLIGENCE FAILURE "Today, by executive order, I am creating an independent commission, chaired by Governor and former Senator Chuck Robb, Judge Laurence Silberman, to look at American intelligence capabilities, especially our intelligence about weapons of mass destruction." [President Bush, 2/6/04]

17. Creation of the 9/11 Commission

BUSH OPPOSES CREATION OF INDEPENDENT 9/11 COMMISSION... "President Bush took a few minutes during his trip to Europe Thursday to voice his opposition to establishing a special commission to probe how the government dealt with terror warnings before Sept. 11." [CBS News, 5/23/02]

...BUSH SUPPORTS CREATION OF INDEPENDENT 9/11 COMMISSION "President Bush said today he now supports establishing an independent commission to investigate the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks." [ABC News, 09/20/02]

18. Time Extension for 9/11 Commission

BUSH OPPOSES TIME EXTENSION FOR 9/11 COMMISSION... "President Bush and House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) have decided to oppose granting more time to an independent commission investigating the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks." [Washington Post, 1/19/04]

...BUSH SUPPORTS TIME EXTENSION FOR 9/11 COMMISSION "The White House announced Wednesday its support for a request from the commission investigating the September 11, 2001 attacks for more time to complete its work." [CNN, 2/4/04]

19. One Hour Limit for 9/11 Commission Testimony

BUSH LIMITS TESTIMONY IN FRONT OF 9/11 COMMISSION TO ONE HOUR... "President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney have placed strict limits on the private interviews they will grant to the federal commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks, saying that they will meet only with the panel's top two officials and that Mr. Bush will submit to only a single hour of questioning, commission members said Wednesday." [NY Times, 2/26/04]

...BUSH SETS NO TIMELIMIT FOR TESTIMONY "The president's going to answer all of the questions they want to raise. Nobody's watching the clock." [White House spokesman Scott McClellan, 3/10/04]

20. Gay Marriage

BUSH SAYS GAY MARRIAGE IS A STATE ISSUE... "The state can do what they want to do. Don't try to trap me in this state's issue like you're trying to get me into." [Gov. George W. Bush on Gay Marriage, Larry King Live, 2/15/00]

...BUSH SUPPORTS CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT BANNING GAY MARRIAGE "Today I call upon the Congress to promptly pass, and to send to the states for ratification, an amendment to our Constitution defining and protecting marriage as a union of man and woman as husband and wife." [President Bush, 2/24/04]

21. Nation Building

BUSH OPPOSES NATION BUILDING... "If we don't stop extending our troops all around the world in nation-building missions, then we're going to have a serious problem coming down the road." [Gov. George W. Bush, 10/3/00]

...BUSH SUPPORTS NATION BUILDING "We will be changing the regime of Iraq, for the good of the Iraqi people." [President Bush, 3/6/03]

22. Saddam/al Qaeda Link

BUSH SAYS IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEEN AL QAEDA AND SADDAM... "You can't distinguish between al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror." [President Bush, 9/25/02]

...BUSH SAYS SADDAM HAD NO ROLE IN AL QAEDA PLOT "We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved in Sept. 11." [President Bush, 9/17/03]

23. U.N. Resolution

BUSH VOWS TO HAVE A UN VOTE NO MATTER WHAT... "No matter what the whip count is, we're calling for the vote. We want to see people stand up and say what their opinion is about Saddam Hussein and the utility of the United Nations Security Council. And so, you bet. It's time for people to show their cards, to let the world know where they stand when it comes to Saddam." [President Bush 3/6/03]

...BUSH WITHDRAWS REQUEST FOR VOTE "At a National Security Council meeting convened at the White House at 8:55 a.m., Bush finalized the decision to withdraw the resolution from consideration and prepared to deliver an address to the nation that had already been written." [Washington Post, 3/18/03]

24. Involvement in the Palestinian Conflict

BUSH OPPOSES SUMMITS... "Well, we've tried summits in the past, as you may remember. It wasn't all that long ago where a summit was called and nothing happened, and as a result we had significant intifada in the area." [President Bush, 04/05/02]

...BUSH SUPPORTS SUMMITS "If a meeting advances progress toward two states living side by side in peace, I will strongly consider such a meeting. I'm committed to working toward peace in the Middle East." [President Bush, 5/23/03]

25. Campaign Finance

BUSH OPPOSES MCCAIN-FEINGOLD... "George W. Bush opposes McCain-Feingold...as an infringement on free expression." [Washington Post, 3/28/2000]

...BUSH SIGNS MCCAIN-FEINGOLD INTO LAW "[T]his bill improves the current system of financing for Federal campaigns, and therefore I have signed it into law." [President Bush, at the McCain-Feingold signing ceremony, 03/27/02]

26. 527s

Bush opposes restrictions on 527s: "I also have reservations about the constitutionality of the broad ban on issue advertising [in McCain Feingold], which restrains the speech of a wide variety of groups on issues of public import." [President Bush, 3/27/02]

…Bush says 527s bad for system: "I don't think we ought to have 527s. I can't be more plain about it…I think they're bad for the system. That's why I signed the bill, McCain-Feingold." [President Bush, 8/23/04]

27. Medical Records

Bush says medical records must remain private: "I believe that we must protect…the right of every American to have confidence that his or her personal medical records will remain private." [President Bush, 4/12/01]

…Bush says patients' histories are not confidntial: The Justice Department…asserts that patients "no longer possess a reasonable expectation that their histories will remain completely confidential." [BusinessWeek, 4/30/04]

28. Timelines For Dictators

Bush sets timeline for Saddam: "If Iraq does not accept the terms within a week of passage or fails to disclose required information within 30 days, the resolution authorizes 'all necessary means' to force compliance--in other words, a military attack." [LA Times, 10/3/02]

…Bush says he's against timelines: "I don't think you give timelines to dictators." [President Bush, 8/27/04]

29. The Great Lakes

Bush wants to divert great lakes: "Even though experts say 'diverting any water from the Great Lakes region sets a bad precedent' Bush 'said he wants to talk to Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chrétien about piping water to parched states in the west and southwest.'– [AP, 7/19/01]

Bush says he'll never divert Great Lakes: "We've got to use our resources wisely, like water. It starts with keeping the Great Lakes water in the Great Lakes Basin...My position is clear: We're never going to allow diversion of Great Lakes water." [President Bush, 8/16/04]

30. Winning The War On Terror

Bush claims he can win the war on terror: "One of the interesting things people ask me, now that we're asking questions, is, can you ever win the war on terror? Of course, you can." [President Bush, 4/13/04]

…Bush says war on terror is unwinnable: "I don't think you can win [the war on terror]." [President Bush, 8/30/04]

…Bush says he will win the war on terror: "Make no mistake about it, we are winning and we will win [the war on terror]." [President Bush, 8/31/04]


http://www.americanprogressaction.org/s ... H&b=118263

© American Progress Action Fund
1333 H Street, NW
10th Floor
Washington, D.C. 20005
202-682-1611

[Xzion]

Because his mug was all over the TV during 911 and he did a good job handling the crisis. There's nothing deeper to it. If John Kerry was the Mayor of New York Sept 11, 2001, he'd be our next president.

I'm not so sure of that. Rudy is real. He speaks his mind. He is what you see. Kerry doesn't have that in his make-up. I am a big fan of Rudy's because he is so passionate and real. He doesn't play polls and he doesn't play the political correctness game. I hope he runs for President in 2008. During the primaries we can then learn more about his National vision as opposed to just his New York vision which is as Sueven said all we really have to go by at this time. I look forward to it. He could be some one a large majority of the populace can really get behind.

George W Bush has flip flopped on the issues just as much as John Kerry has, if not more so...he is a puppet i dont understand why you must so passionatly attack Kerry, whenever someone brings up an argument about Bush, ALL ANY Bush supporter here does is attack John Kerry, they never support Bush,(short of hes not an evil liberal flip flopper like john kerry) maybe because they cant

If you could post continual flip-flopping changes of position uqual or greater than Kerry's in the last 2 years, I'd join in on the laughter. Please don't say things like that when you have to proof what so ever. It makes you no better than Dan Rather with memo gate and Jesse Jackson with his bullshit about black voter suppresion and Al Gore with his claims that Bush lied and betrayed Americans. It's irresponsible and only goes to further cause Kerry to fall behind.

President Bush: Flip-Flopper-In-Chief

September 2, 2004, Updated
Download Poster

From the beginning, George W. Bush has made his own credibility a central issue. On 10/11/00, then-Gov. Bush said: "I think credibility is important.It is going to be important for the president to be credible with Congress, important for the president to be credible with foreign nations." But President Bush's serial flip-flopping raises serious questions about whether Congress and foreign leaders can rely on what he says.

1. Social Security Surplus

BUSH PLEDGES NOT TO TOUCH SOCIAL SECURITY SURPLUS... "We're going to keep the promise of Social Security and keep the government from raiding the Social Security surplus." [President Bush, 3/3/01]

...BUSH SPENDS SOCIAL SECURITY SURPLUS The New York Times reported that "the president's new budget uses Social Security surpluses to pay for other programs every year through 2013, ultimately diverting more than $1.4 trillion in Social Security funds to other purposes." [The New York Times, 2/6/02]

2. Patient's Right to Sue

GOVERNOR BUSH VETOES PATIENTS' RIGHT TO SUE... "Despite his campaign rhetoric in favor of a patients' bill of rights, Bush fought such a bill tooth and nail as Texas governor, vetoing a bill coauthored by Republican state Rep. John Smithee in 1995. He... constantly opposed a patient's right to sue an HMO over coverage denied that resulted in adverse health effects." [Salon, 2/7/01]

...CANDIDATE BUSH PRAISES TEXAS PATIENTS' RIGHT TO SUE... "We're one of the first states that said you can sue an HMO for denying you proper coverage... It's time for our nation to come together and do what's right for the people. And I think this is right for the people. You know, I support a national patients' bill of rights, Mr. Vice President. And I want all people covered. I don't want the law to supersede good law like we've got in Texas." [Governor Bush, 10/17/00]

...PRESIDENT BUSH'S ADMINISTRATION ARGUES AGAINST RIGHT TO SUE "To let two Texas consumers, Juan Davila and Ruby R. Calad, sue their managed-care companies for wrongful denials of medical benefits ‘would be to completely undermine' federal law regulating employee benefits, Assistant Solicitor General James A. Feldman said at oral argument March 23. Moreover, the administration's brief attacked the policy rationale for Texas's law, which is similar to statutes on the books in nine other states." [Washington Post, 4/5/04]

3. Tobacco Buyout

BUSH SUPPORTS CURRENT TOBACCO FARMERS' QUOTA SYSTEM... "They've got the quota system in place -- the allotment system -- and I don't think that needs to be changed." [President Bush, 5/04]

...BUSH ADMINISTRATION WILL SUPPORT FEDERAL BUYOUT OF TOBACCO QUOTAS "The administration is open to a buyout." [White House spokeswoman Jeanie Mamo, 6/18/04]

4. North Korea

BUSH WILL NOT OFFER NUCLEAR NORTH KOREA INCENTIVES TO DISARM... "We developed a bold approach under which, if the North addressed our long-standing concerns, the United States was prepared to take important steps that would have significantly improved the lives of the North Korean people. Now that North Korea's covert nuclear weapons program has come to light, we are unable to pursue this approach." [President's Statement, 11/15/02]

...BUSH ADMINISTRATION OFFERS NORTH KOREA INCENTIVES TO DISARM"Well, we will work to take steps to ease their political and economic isolation. So there would be -- what you would see would be some provisional or temporary proposals that would only lead to lasting benefit after North Korea dismantles its nuclear programs. So there would be some provisional or temporary efforts of that nature." [White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan, 6/23/04]

5. Abortion

BUSH SUPPORTS A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE... "Bush said he...favors leaving up to a woman and her doctor the abortion question." [The Nation, 6/15/00, quoting the Lubbock Avalanche-Journal, 5/78]

...BUSH OPPOSES A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE "I am pro-life." [Governor Bush, 10/3/00]

6. OPEC

BUSH PROMISES TO FORCE OPEC TO LOWER PRICES... "What I think the president ought to do [when gas prices spike] is he ought to get on the phone with the OPEC cartel and say we expect you to open your spigots...And the president of the United States must jawbone OPEC members to lower the price." [President Bush, 1/26/00]

...BUSH REFUSES TO LOBBY OPEC LEADERS With gas prices soaring in the United States at the beginning of 2004, the Miami Herald reported the president refused to "personally lobby oil cartel leaders to change their minds." [Miami Herald, 4/1/04]

7. Iraq Funding

BUSH SPOKESMAN DENIES NEED FOR ADDITIONAL FUNDS FOR THE REST OF 2004... "We do not anticipate requesting supplemental funding for '04" [White House Budget Director Joshua Bolton, 2/2/04]

...BUSH REQUESTS ADDITIONAL FUNDS FOR IRAQ FOR 2004 "I am requesting that Congress establish a $25 billion contingency reserve fund for the coming fiscal year to meet all commitments to our troops." [President Bush, Statement by President, 5/5/04]

8. Condoleeza Rice Testimony

BUSH SPOKESMAN SAYS RICE WON'T TESTIFY AS 'A MATTER OF PRINCIPLE'... "Again, this is not her personal preference; this goes back to a matter of principle. There is a separation of powers issue involved here. Historically, White House staffers do not testify before legislative bodies. So it's a matter of principle, not a matter of preference." [White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan, 3/9/04]

...BUSH ORDERS RICE TO TESTIFY: "Today I have informed the Commission on Terrorist Attacks Against the United States that my National Security Advisor, Dr. Condoleezza Rice, will provide public testimony." [President Bush, 3/30/04]

9. Science

BUSH PLEDGES TO ISSUE REGULATIONS BASED ON SCIENCE..."I think we ought to have high standards set by agencies that rely upon science, not by what may feel good or what sounds good." [then-Governor George W. Bush, 1/15/00]

...BUSH ADMINISTRATION REGULATIONS IGNORE SCIENCE "60 leading scientists—including Nobel laureates, leading medical experts, former federal agency directors and university chairs and presidents—issued a statement calling for regulatory and legislative action to restore scientific integrity to federal policymaking. According to the scientists, the Bush administration has, among other abuses, suppressed and distorted scientific analysis from federal agencies, and taken actions that have undermined the quality of scientific advisory panels." [Union of Concerned Scientists, 2/18/04]

10. Ahmed Chalabi

BUSH INVITES CHALABI TO STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESS...President Bush also met with Chalabi during his brief trip to Iraq last Thanksgiving [White House Documents 1/20/04, 11/27/03]

...BUSH MILITARY ASSISTS IN RAID OF CHALABI'S HOUSE "U.S. soldiers raided the home of America's one-time ally Ahmad Chalabi on Thursday and seized documents and computers." [Washington Post, 5/20/04]

11. Department of Homeland Security

BUSH OPPOSES THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY..."So, creating a Cabinet office doesn't solve the problem. You still will have agencies within the federal government that have to be coordinated. So the answer is that creating a Cabinet post doesn't solve anything." [White House spokesman Ari Fleischer, 3/19/02]

...BUSH SUPPORTS THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY "So tonight, I ask the Congress to join me in creating a single, permanent department with an overriding and urgent mission: securing the homeland of America and protecting the American people." [President Bush, Address to the Nation, 6/6/02]

12. Weapons of Mass Destruction

BUSH SAYS WE FOUND THE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION..."We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories...for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them." [President Bush, Interview in Poland, 5/29/03]

...BUSH SAYS WE HAVEN'T FOUND WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION "David Kay has found the capacity to produce weapons.And when David Kay goes in and says we haven't found stockpiles yet, and there's theories as to where the weapons went. They could have been destroyed during the war. Saddam and his henchmen could have destroyed them as we entered into Iraq. They could be hidden. They could have been transported to another country, and we'll find out." [President Bush, Meet the Press, 2/7/04]

13. Free Trade

BUSH SUPPORTS FREE TRADE... "I believe strongly that if we promote trade, and when we promote trade, it will help workers on both sides of this issue." [President Bush in Peru, 3/23/02]

...BUSH SUPPORTS RESTRICTIONS ON TRADE "In a decision largely driven by his political advisers, President Bush set aside his free-trade principles last year and imposed heavy tariffs on imported steel to help out struggling mills in Pennsylvania and West Virginia, two states crucial for his reelection." [Washington Post, 9/19/03]

14. Osama Bin Laden

BUSH WANTS OSAMA DEAD OR ALIVE... "I want justice. And there's an old poster out West, I recall, that says, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive.'" [President Bush, on Osama Bin Laden, 09/17/01]

...BUSH DOESN'T CARE ABOUT OSAMA "I don't know where he is.You know, I just don't spend that much time on him... I truly am not that concerned about him."[President Bush, Press Conference, 3/13/02]

15. The Environment

BUSH SUPPORTS MANDATORY CAPS ON CARBON DIOXIDE... "[If elected], Governor Bush will work to...establish mandatory reduction targets for emissions of four main pollutants: sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide, mercury and carbon dioxide." [Bush Environmental Plan, 9/29/00]

...BUSH OPPOSES MANDATORY CAPS ON CARBON DIOXIDE "I do not believe, however, that the government should impose on power plants mandatory emissions reductions for carbon dioxide, which is not a 'pollutant' under the Clean Air Act." [President Bush, Letter to Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE), 3/13/03]

16. WMD Commission

BUSH RESISTS AN OUTSIDE INVESTIGATION ON WMD INTELLIGENCE FAILURE... "The White House immediately turned aside the calls from Kay and many Democrats for an immediate outside investigation, seeking to head off any new wide-ranging election-year inquiry that might go beyond reports already being assembled by congressional committees and the Central Intelligence Agency." [NY Times, 1/29/04]

...BUSH SUPPORTS AN OUTSIDE INVESTIGATION ON WMD INTELLIGENCE FAILURE "Today, by executive order, I am creating an independent commission, chaired by Governor and former Senator Chuck Robb, Judge Laurence Silberman, to look at American intelligence capabilities, especially our intelligence about weapons of mass destruction." [President Bush, 2/6/04]

17. Creation of the 9/11 Commission

BUSH OPPOSES CREATION OF INDEPENDENT 9/11 COMMISSION... "President Bush took a few minutes during his trip to Europe Thursday to voice his opposition to establishing a special commission to probe how the government dealt with terror warnings before Sept. 11." [CBS News, 5/23/02]

...BUSH SUPPORTS CREATION OF INDEPENDENT 9/11 COMMISSION "President Bush said today he now supports establishing an independent commission to investigate the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks." [ABC News, 09/20/02]

18. Time Extension for 9/11 Commission

BUSH OPPOSES TIME EXTENSION FOR 9/11 COMMISSION... "President Bush and House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) have decided to oppose granting more time to an independent commission investigating the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks." [Washington Post, 1/19/04]

...BUSH SUPPORTS TIME EXTENSION FOR 9/11 COMMISSION "The White House announced Wednesday its support for a request from the commission investigating the September 11, 2001 attacks for more time to complete its work." [CNN, 2/4/04]

19. One Hour Limit for 9/11 Commission Testimony

BUSH LIMITS TESTIMONY IN FRONT OF 9/11 COMMISSION TO ONE HOUR... "President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney have placed strict limits on the private interviews they will grant to the federal commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks, saying that they will meet only with the panel's top two officials and that Mr. Bush will submit to only a single hour of questioning, commission members said Wednesday." [NY Times, 2/26/04]

...BUSH SETS NO TIMELIMIT FOR TESTIMONY "The president's going to answer all of the questions they want to raise. Nobody's watching the clock." [White House spokesman Scott McClellan, 3/10/04]

20. Gay Marriage

BUSH SAYS GAY MARRIAGE IS A STATE ISSUE... "The state can do what they want to do. Don't try to trap me in this state's issue like you're trying to get me into." [Gov. George W. Bush on Gay Marriage, Larry King Live, 2/15/00]

...BUSH SUPPORTS CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT BANNING GAY MARRIAGE "Today I call upon the Congress to promptly pass, and to send to the states for ratification, an amendment to our Constitution defining and protecting marriage as a union of man and woman as husband and wife." [President Bush, 2/24/04]

21. Nation Building

BUSH OPPOSES NATION BUILDING... "If we don't stop extending our troops all around the world in nation-building missions, then we're going to have a serious problem coming down the road." [Gov. George W. Bush, 10/3/00]

...BUSH SUPPORTS NATION BUILDING "We will be changing the regime of Iraq, for the good of the Iraqi people." [President Bush, 3/6/03]

22. Saddam/al Qaeda Link

BUSH SAYS IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEEN AL QAEDA AND SADDAM... "You can't distinguish between al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror." [President Bush, 9/25/02]

...BUSH SAYS SADDAM HAD NO ROLE IN AL QAEDA PLOT "We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved in Sept. 11." [President Bush, 9/17/03]

23. U.N. Resolution

BUSH VOWS TO HAVE A UN VOTE NO MATTER WHAT... "No matter what the whip count is, we're calling for the vote. We want to see people stand up and say what their opinion is about Saddam Hussein and the utility of the United Nations Security Council. And so, you bet. It's time for people to show their cards, to let the world know where they stand when it comes to Saddam." [President Bush 3/6/03]

...BUSH WITHDRAWS REQUEST FOR VOTE "At a National Security Council meeting convened at the White House at 8:55 a.m., Bush finalized the decision to withdraw the resolution from consideration and prepared to deliver an address to the nation that had already been written." [Washington Post, 3/18/03]

24. Involvement in the Palestinian Conflict

BUSH OPPOSES SUMMITS... "Well, we've tried summits in the past, as you may remember. It wasn't all that long ago where a summit was called and nothing happened, and as a result we had significant intifada in the area." [President Bush, 04/05/02]

...BUSH SUPPORTS SUMMITS "If a meeting advances progress toward two states living side by side in peace, I will strongly consider such a meeting. I'm committed to working toward peace in the Middle East." [President Bush, 5/23/03]

25. Campaign Finance

BUSH OPPOSES MCCAIN-FEINGOLD... "George W. Bush opposes McCain-Feingold...as an infringement on free expression." [Washington Post, 3/28/2000]

...BUSH SIGNS MCCAIN-FEINGOLD INTO LAW "[T]his bill improves the current system of financing for Federal campaigns, and therefore I have signed it into law." [President Bush, at the McCain-Feingold signing ceremony, 03/27/02]

26. 527s

Bush opposes restrictions on 527s: "I also have reservations about the constitutionality of the broad ban on issue advertising [in McCain Feingold], which restrains the speech of a wide variety of groups on issues of public import." [President Bush, 3/27/02]

…Bush says 527s bad for system: "I don't think we ought to have 527s. I can't be more plain about it…I think they're bad for the system. That's why I signed the bill, McCain-Feingold." [President Bush, 8/23/04]

27. Medical Records

Bush says medical records must remain private: "I believe that we must protect…the right of every American to have confidence that his or her personal medical records will remain private." [President Bush, 4/12/01]

…Bush says patients' histories are not confidntial: The Justice Department…asserts that patients "no longer possess a reasonable expectation that their histories will remain completely confidential." [BusinessWeek, 4/30/04]

28. Timelines For Dictators

Bush sets timeline for Saddam: "If Iraq does not accept the terms within a week of passage or fails to disclose required information within 30 days, the resolution authorizes 'all necessary means' to force compliance--in other words, a military attack." [LA Times, 10/3/02]

…Bush says he's against timelines: "I don't think you give timelines to dictators." [President Bush, 8/27/04]

29. The Great Lakes

Bush wants to divert great lakes: "Even though experts say 'diverting any water from the Great Lakes region sets a bad precedent' Bush 'said he wants to talk to Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chrétien about piping water to parched states in the west and southwest.'– [AP, 7/19/01]

Bush says he'll never divert Great Lakes: "We've got to use our resources wisely, like water. It starts with keeping the Great Lakes water in the Great Lakes Basin...My position is clear: We're never going to allow diversion of Great Lakes water." [President Bush, 8/16/04]

30. Winning The War On Terror

Bush claims he can win the war on terror: "One of the interesting things people ask me, now that we're asking questions, is, can you ever win the war on terror? Of course, you can." [President Bush, 4/13/04]

…Bush says war on terror is unwinnable: "I don't think you can win [the war on terror]." [President Bush, 8/30/04]

…Bush says he will win the war on terror: "Make no mistake about it, we are winning and we will win [the war on terror]." [President Bush, 8/31/04]


http://www.americanprogressaction.org/s ... H&b=118263

© American Progress Action Fund
1333 H Street, NW
10th Floor
Washington, D.C. 20005
202-682-1611

Ouch!
Sucks to be a VV Bush supporter just about now, lets see how Winnow or Mid try to spin those facts

[Sirton]

might aswell link:
http://www.johnkerrytruth.com/
About same type of proof, but since yours is a anti Bush site it says the truth. Bush suckors, Kerry Great!!

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Okay. Can we just all agree to write in McCain then this year? Maybe if we start a nation wide campaign we could get McCain elected instead of the two bozos running now. What do you say?

[Kelshara]

Of course it isn't true! It's about Bush after all! Sirton to the rescue!

[Thess]

Okay. Can we just all agree to write in McCain then this year? Maybe if we start a nation wide campaign we could get McCain elected instead of the two bozos running now. What do you say?

I win vv.

[Thess]

might aswell link:
http://www.johnkerrytruth.com/
About same type of proof, but since yours is a anti Bush site it says the truth. Bush suckors, Kerry Great!!

Once again you fail to be able to follow a thread.

[Sirton]

Once again you post a PoS spun up thread from a political hack site. I did read and found so many of them are misleading taking one line from here or distorting the facts.

Example was in TX on the patient Bill of rights he did veto it first time through, but it wasnt why you think. The next year he let it pass.

On abortion he had that view in 1978.

On Nation building and many of the other things in that PoS....that was before 9/11 happened. 9/11 as he said changes everything.

On money to the troops hes always said if they need it they get it...and its a changing process. He said we do not anticipate...he didnt say we werent!!!!!!

One is about one of his spokeman, and of coarse they never point out that they say they need more time to investigate a situation before final decision.

Ahmed Chalabi ummmm well new evidence came up showing him supplying info to Iran. DUH!!!!!

Homeland security thats way to big of a agency just to lightly go....YEA we need another cabinet office!!! After time they did figure it was best for the country.

WMDs...old hash..not going into anymore.]



Governor Bush will work to...establish mandatory reduction targets for emissions of four main pollutants: sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide, mercury and carbon dioxide......tooooo.......... I do not believe, however, that the government should impose on power plants mandatory emissions reductions for carbon dioxide, which is not a 'pollutant' under the Clean Air Act...how is it a flip flop just not being for it on power plants!!!!!!

On gay marrage he still believes its a state issue, but activist judges not the state is forcing him to change his position. If it was the state legislations it would be different.

War on terror and iraq thats a matter of opinion and I see no flip flop from him there. He just said no evidence from 9/11 to Saddam and he NEVER claimed Saddam did 9/11.

Summits: he doesnt want to goto lame ass ones. Real peace ones yea.

Campaign Finance...He FLIP FLOPPED ON...he said he didnt agree with it though and passed it with thte will on congress. He had no back bone to veto it.

Medical records...thats the justice department...did I see Bush make the statement. I bet hes still for protecting medical records.

Timeline for dicators thats a lame one there

War on terror he corrected that the next day, because the media took just one line from his answer to spin it to hurt his image.

When asked “Can we win?” the war on terror, Bush said, “I don’t think you can win it. But I think you can create conditions so that the — those who use terror as a tool are — less acceptable in parts of the world.”

A total war on every terrorist is impossible to win. You can never kill every bad terrorist, but you can win his particular war by destroying Al Q. infrastructure and leadership to were they wont be effective.


Just knowing this shit from reading through it real quick tells me the whole thing is a crock of shit...Hell look ats from a Bush hating Site!!!. This is a political TOOL for bush haters that wish to jump in the washing machine and drink some Koolaid.

[Winnow]

Bush is no Flipperhead. If he was, Kerry would make a big deal of that instead of bumbling around trying to find a campaign strategy. Kerry knows he's a flipper himself so he won't use that in his ads or in the debates or Bush will eat him alive with Kerry's Iraq indecision which is all that matters this election.

[Kelshara]

Example was in TX on the patient Bill of rights he did veto it first time through, but it wasnt why you think. My pop yelled at his ass about it he told him it was because some of the wording and tag ons was corrupting it. The next year he let it pass.

Hey that sounds familiar.. where have I heard that before? Oh yeah it is what y'all bitch at Kerry for and call him flip-flopper over!

Didn't even bother reading the rest. That paragraph said it all.

[Sirton]

Exactly Winnow if Bush was such a flip Flop why isnt Kerry the one on attack about Flip flopping..

Rinse cycle!

[Sirton]

Kelsh. he let it pass the following year the patient bill of rights. Yea he did veto it before and said it was a mistake, but it was mainly about other parts of the bill.

[Thess]

Despite Bush Flip-Flops, Kerry Gets Label

By John F. Harris
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, September 23, 2004; Page A01


One of this year's candidates for president, to hear his opposition tell it, has a long history of policy reversals and rhetorical about-faces -- a zigzag trail that proves his willingness to massage positions and even switch sides when politically convenient.

The flip-flopper, Democrats say, is President Bush. Over the past four years, he abandoned positions on issues such as how to regulate air pollution or whether states should be allowed to sanction same-sex marriage. He changed his mind about the merits of creating the Homeland Security Department, and made a major exception to his stance on free trade by agreeing to tariffs on steel. After resisting, the president yielded to pressure in supporting an independent commission to study policy failures preceding the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. Bush did the same with questions about whether he would allow his national security adviser to testify, or whether he would answer commissioners' questions for only an hour, or for as long they needed.

Democrats working for John F. Kerry cite these twists and turns with glee -- but even more frustration. Polls have shown overwhelmingly that Kerry -- with his long trail of confusing and sometimes contradictory statements, especially on Iraq -- is this year's flip-flopper in the public mind, a criticism that continued to echo across the campaign trail yesterday.

Once such a popular perception becomes fixed, public opinion experts and strategists say, virtually every episode in the campaign is viewed through that prism, while facts that do not fit with existing assumptions -- such as Bush's history of policy shifts -- do not have much impact in the political debate.

Why these impressions became so firmly fixed in the first place is a source of debate. Bush strategists say the popular perception is true. The president's principles on such issues as low taxes and confronting overseas threats are not in doubt, no matter some occasional tactical shifts, they say, while Kerry's maneuvering on Iraq and other issues raises questions about whether he can stand steady for core beliefs.

Kerry defenders say the flip-flop charge has resonated through purposeful repetition by the Bush campaign, which began striking the theme in ads in the spring and has never let go. In the latest Bush campaign spot, released yesterday, Kerry is shown windsurfing as the ad, scored with Johann Strauss Jr.'s "Blue Danube" waltz, says the Democrat shifts positions on Iraq, health care and education "whichever way the wind blows."

As Democrats see it, the flip-flopper allegation is this year's equivalent of how the GOP four years ago portrayed Al Gore as a chronic truth-stretcher, and now, as then, blame the news media for accepting and promoting a caricature.

For a while this summer, Kerry's team tried to answer Bush's charge that Kerry is equivocating and inconstant by alleging that Bush is just as much or more so. But lately the campaign has laid off this line of argument after concluding it was ineffective against an opponent who surveys show is seen by a majority of voters as decisive, even to the point of stubbornness.

"When it comes to shifting positions, he can shift with the best," Kerry spokesman Joe Lockhart said of Bush. "We are prosecuting a different case. We are not arguing that he's a flip-flopper -- he is -- but that the policy choices he has taken have failed miserably."

Andrew Kohut, director of the Pew Research Center, said voters' perceptions are too settled at this point to allow easily for alternate arguments. Once the public concludes that a politician is strong in general, he or she has more freedom to be flexible on certain delicate particulars, Kohut said, adding that in the case of this year's nominees, "Bush can get away with a little more, and Kerry can get away with a little less."

Stuart Stevens, one of Bush's media advisers, argued that the public's judgments are fair. Voters do not believe that Bush has never changed his mind, or penalize Kerry for every change of position, he said, but over time have reached conclusions about both men's priorities and leadership styles.

"I think all these issues resonate with any candidate if they strike people as part of a pattern and reasonable and true," Stevens said. "The president is someone who has a core set of beliefs and values that are guiding him as he tries to make decisions.

"I don't think he hesitates to change an approach if he feels it's not working, but I don't think people sense remotely that he's doing it [based on] a political compass," he added.

The record, however, suggests a fair degree of political calculation has gone into some of Bush's about-faces. During his first term, the paramount goals -- such as cutting taxes or pursuing a confrontation with Saddam Hussein -- have been fixed. But this has allowed room for tactical maneuvering on other questions.

In 2000, Bush said he would include carbon dioxide on a list of air pollutants requiring federal oversight, a stand he abandoned within weeks of taking office. A month after the Sept. 11 attacks, Bush's spokesman said the president believed a homeland security department that Democrats proposed was "just not necessary." A year after that, Bush had switched course and was lashing some Democrats for not moving quickly enough to approve the agency.

While Bush professes himself a strong free-trader, most other free-trade proponents said he bent on principle in March 2002 when he ordered tariffs on imported steel -- a move that resonated politically in electorally important industrial states such as Pennsylvania. Facing an escalating global trade dispute, he lifted the tariffs at the end of last year.

In some cases, Democrats say, Bush's position stays the same even as his reasons flip. The most famous examples involve taxes and Iraq. He supported tax cuts in 2000 because he said they were affordable in a time of large government surpluses, and once in power he supported them amid rising deficits because he said the economy needed stimulation. The president's principal rationale for the Iraq invasion was to end Baghdad's suspected mass-weapons program and links to international terrorism. In the absence of compelling evidence of these, the main post-invasion rationale has been to rescue Iraq from a tyrant and support democracy in the greater Middle East.

Iraq, however, has been the source of the most damaging charges of equivocation and wind-shifting against Kerry. The Massachusetts senator voted for the Iraq war in October 2002, but a year later voted against Bush's request for $87 billion for military and reconstruction spending in Iraq and Afghanistan. The latter vote came when former Vermont governor Howard Dean's antiwar candidacy was ascendant. The vote may have been wise politics at the time, but came with a high price -- lending an aura of plausibility to the subsequent charges by Bush that Kerry is motivated by opportunism.

Kerry's statements have compounded the damage. In September 2003, he said at a Democratic debate, "We should not send more American troops" to Iraq. "That would be the worst thing." In April, he said on NBC's "Meet the Press" that "if it requires more troops . . . that's what you have to do." In August, he told ABC's "This Week" that if elected, "I will have significant, enormous reduction in the level of troops." This week, he said that, as president, he would not have launched an invasion if he had known that there was not clear evidence of weapons of mass destruction or ties to al Qaeda, though last month he said, knowing these things, he still would have voted to give Bush congressional authority to wage the Iraq war.

Polls make clear the extent to which Bush's flip-flop charge has stuck. A poll released last week by Kohut's Pew Center showed that 53 percent of voters believe Kerry "changes his mind too much." This was down a few percentage points from a poll the week earlier, apparently showing that the effects of the Republican National Convention -- in which delegates swayed in unison chanting "flip-flop, flip-flop" about Kerry -- are wearing off. Even so, the latest data show that 62 percent said the attribute "takes a stand" applies more to Bush than to Kerry, while 29 percent said the opposite. Bush won by 57 percent to 34 percent on which candidate more deserves the phrase "strong leader."

Rep. Rahm Emanuel (D-Ill.) blames the news media for such perceptions. "Journalists decide a type, and then write to type," he said. "Gore as the 'exaggerator.' John Kerry has not done anything that George Bush has not done in spades, but you guys all decide he's 'resolute.' "

Stevens, who has been studying Kerry since advising then-Massachusetts Gov. William H. Weld ® in an unsuccessful attempt to defeat the senator in 1996, said Kerry's very manner exacerbates the flip-flop impression: "He says these things with great condescension, [suggesting]: 'If only you were as smart as I and understand this that these issues are too complicated to have a consistent position.' . . . People have a good internal detector of the difference between nuance and confusion and opportunism."



© 2004 The Washington Post Company

If Kerry turned it to him, it would be a flip flop on his statement that Bush was unwavering.

[archeiron]

Okay. Can we just all agree to write in McCain then this year? Maybe if we start a nation wide campaign we could get McCain elected instead of the two bozos running now. What do you say?

I win vv.

Yes, ma'am. That is a clear victory, no question about it.