Will we be stuck with Bush for another 4 years?

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » September 17, 2004, 12:17 pm

Well, will we be?

miir · Post by **miir** » September 17, 2004, 12:24 pm

What a dumb poll.

The neocons and conservatives are going to vote yes and the liberals are going to vote no.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » September 17, 2004, 12:27 pm

Actually I will vote yes. Unfortunately, I think the average American isn't interested enough to realize that there needs to be a change.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » September 17, 2004, 12:41 pm

Personally I'm scared... very scared. I have friends who I consider fairly open minded and somewhat intelligent who are must have got the same Kool-Aid in the mail as Met

After continally being presented with facts, they dont' change their mind... and I CAN'T FIGURE OUT WHY! It's always the same, "oh that's not really important" or "oh that's not true." When I'm like "ITS FROM THE DEPT OF LABOR AND STATISTICS!" Anyway... I hope and pray Kerry will win, I truly do not want to even consider what we will be like with 4 more years of Bushy in the WH.

Marb

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » September 17, 2004, 12:43 pm

God I hope So!

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » September 17, 2004, 12:44 pm

if kerry is the only guy the dems can produce, yes we are stuck

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 17, 2004, 1:28 pm

Bush will be back for another term mostly because Kerry is a lame candidate to try and win an election with.

Kerry may have an October surge though. He looks like Frankenstein and it's the Halloween season so he'll fit in more. Bush and Cheney don't have to look scary to scare liberals though. Although this development initially appears to favor Kerry in the month of October, I'm calling this a wash.

Monkeys are goofy and fun!
Frankenstein is mean and scary!

Appearance Advantage: Bush

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » September 17, 2004, 1:29 pm

Winnow wrote:Bush will be back for another term mostly because Kerry is a lame candidate to try and win an election with.

Kerry may have an October surge though. He looks like Frankenstein and it's the Halloween season so he'll fit in more. Bush and Cheney don't have to look scary to scare liberals though. Although this development initially appears to favor Kerry in the month of October, I'm calling this a wash.

Monkeys are goofy and fun!
Frankenstein is mean and scary!

Appearance Advantage: Bush

This post made me laugh out loud! Thanks!

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » September 17, 2004, 1:41 pm

miir wrote:What a dumb poll.

The neocons and conservatives are going to vote yes and the liberals are going to vote no.

uhhh...no. I am pretty liberal, and hate Bush. I think we are fucked, and he'll be in office for another 4 years. Ones own political stance has little to do with what on will think the election outcome will be,

archeiron · Post by **archeiron** » September 17, 2004, 1:47 pm

miir wrote:What a dumb poll.

The neocons and conservatives are going to vote yes and the liberals are going to vote no.

I am socially liberal, and I believe that Bush will most likely be reelected.

Sirton · Post by **Sirton** » September 17, 2004, 2:21 pm

http://www.electoral-vote.com/There ya go Thess

Unless Kerry kicks ass in the debates and listens to Clinton and gets off all the past shit and shuts down the Bush haters hes toast. The American people do not like to here partisan shit on whoever the president is for too long or it back fires.

Ouch is all I gotta say...and Ohio we all know how most the polls been hvy on favoring Bush. New York and Illinois are weak now even and New Jersey and PA have had mutiple polls now showing Bush has a slight lead in them..Its looking more and more like a landslide is about to come.

http://gallup.com/poll/content/?ci=13066Heres the the most recent poll from the most respected polling agency.

Bush up by 13 points, 55% to 42%.

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » September 17, 2004, 2:21 pm

In all fairness, I want to get fucked.
So I voted yes.

miir · Post by **miir** » September 17, 2004, 2:24 pm

I wonder what was responsible for Bush's 58 point jump from Sep 13-14

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » September 17, 2004, 2:36 pm

Akaran_D wrote:In all fairness, I want to get fucked.
So I voted yes.

You've come to the right place.

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » September 17, 2004, 2:39 pm

haha.
True, that. But I'm waiting for marriage for my next time. ><

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » September 17, 2004, 2:40 pm

Well I am a conservative but it's starting to look like we will be stuck with Bush for another 4 years. It won't be because I voted for him though, I want him gone.

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » September 17, 2004, 2:47 pm

Krimson Klaw wrote:Well I am a conservative but it's starting to look like we will be stuck with Bush for another 4 years. It won't be because I voted for him though, I want him gone.

C'mon Krimson. You can't honestly think that Kerry will do a better job than Bush?

Well... maybe you can. Me too. Kerry and his "understanding of complexity and sensitivity" may have such difficulty in making decisions that we will have 4 years of political, economic, and social stalemate. This is not necessarily a bad thing as a true conservative knows the caveat; that government which governs least is best.

Ok, you've convinced me. Where do I get in line to vote for Kerry?

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » September 17, 2004, 3:11 pm

I don't hate Bush, in fact I don't think he lied about the WMD's issue, I just think he was EXTREMELY too hasty with his actions and it stems from soon to be gripe #2. I really only have three gripes against his administration, but one of them happens to be huge. First was his steel tariffs. Second is his lack of cooperation concerning the UN (now this one can be debated till the cows come home, but that's my opinion on it). Third, and the huge one, was his hasty attack on Iraq, which sort of goes hand in hand with my second gripe. The first two would have been forgiveable and I would have voted for him again. The third one is the vote breaker for me. I love a strong leader just as much as the next American, but if you don't have patience then you are just being a bully.

Our global relations seem to not matter to most of the Republicans and conservatives on this board. I can't see how you can have this isolationist point of view. It did not work for Japan, it is not working for North Korea. How can it work for a nation that draws it's very breath from free trade?

We are shooting ourselves in the foot, and contrary to the rights beliefs, global opinion does matter for America's success in the future. One hundred and fifty years ago this was not the case. In the twenty first century it is vital.

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » September 17, 2004, 3:21 pm

How many more of these polls will be created...

Niffoni · Post by **Niffoni** » September 17, 2004, 4:15 pm

I predict 4 years of a knuckle-dragging cro-mag either way. The only difference is in the smile... One of arrogant elitism, or one of cheerful obliviousness?

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » September 17, 2004, 4:25 pm

I have the sinking feeling that Bush will get his 4 more years. I hope I'm wrong though, cause if it happens, the US won't be the only country that will be screwed.

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » September 17, 2004, 4:49 pm

If Bush wins, his campeighn managers sure as hell deserve a lot of credit, because they are the best. It boggles my mind that they can manipulate the american public into supporting such a looser ass douchebag. If the campeghns were reversed, then Bush would be down there with Nader,hell they would have fired his ass after 1st term and put up mccain or guliani. His team is the best, there is no disputing that, its just a matter of the american people seeing past that, or buying into it.

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » September 17, 2004, 6:14 pm

Xzion wrote:If Bush wins, his campeighn managers sure as hell deserve a lot of credit, because they are the best. It boggles my mind that they can manipulate the american public into supporting such a looser ass douchebag. If the campeghns were reversed, then Bush would be down there with Nader,hell they would have fired his ass after 1st term and put up mccain or guliani. His team is the best, there is no disputing that, its just a matter of the american people seeing past that, or buying into it.

I'm going to relate a little personal experience Xzion. It's intended to give you just a glimmer of a spark of a flash of insight into why {at least some of} the American people support George W. Bush.

Until recently I worked on a help desk that was > 75% female. Most of these ladies were middle-aged and raising families. Some were in various stages of marraige and some were single or divorced. In other words a fairly typical group. During the late 90's these were the kind of ladies that Rush Limbaugh would have described as soccer moms.

Every single one of them supported Clinton through he impeachment proceedings. As you might imagine we debated during impromptu moments. As the lone conservative and one of the few men around the group, I used to get harassed quite frequently about my views. I could never understand their support of Clinton, but even the ones who felt he was a low-life pig still supported him politically. Most of these ladies wished that Clinton could have ran again in 2000 because they would have voted for him.

These ladies I worked with mostly supported Gore in 2000, although they were not nearly as fervent about him as was their support of Clinton. Regarding Bush, they derided him as goofy and mostly couldn't stand the sight or the sound of him. One lady in particular, a friend in all other aspects would get seriously angry if I so much as e-mailed her a picture of Bush.

Along came 9/11.

Go back and read that again.

Along came 9/11.

I don't know which images or what particular horror about that day caught their attention. Or perhaps it was the images of Bush the next day in the pit with the firemen. But, suddenly it wasn't appropriate to joke about the cosmetic issues facing Bush such as his language goofs and his smirky grin. Something changed in these women, almost unanimously they were suddenly talking as if they had been lifelong conservatives. Call it the nesting instinct or just call it patriotism but these ladies turned hawkish.

I don't think any of these ladies would be considered strong Bush supporters even now. It may be more important to theorize that they are no longer automatic Democrats. This year Bush and Kerry both need to earn their support and the issue of strong leadership is in play.

I guess I'm trying to lecture you. You do a lot of people disservice when you assume they are peons to be manipulated. Every voter is an individual when they walk into the voting booth. And... no matter how you slice it, George Bush has earned himself a fair number of supporters.

===

In John Kerry's defense, just like in 1966 he stood up and volunteered. He had to know this would be an uphill battle. I don't respect his waffling on the issues, but at least he's providing the voters an alternative.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » September 17, 2004, 6:25 pm

heh those ladies you talk about personify everything I will never understand (and also partly what a lot of people laugh at Americans for) about Americans. There is never any middle road, you go from being radical one direction to radical the other. There is absolutely zero reason why you should go from disliking Bush on 9/10 to fight for him on 9/12. With a lot of Americans it is like sometimes a switch is turned overnight, and you change your views completely. Intriguing really, but I will never understand it.

Kaldaur · Post by **Kaldaur** » September 17, 2004, 6:33 pm

Kelshara, it wasn't so much automatic support for Bush. It was a rallying of the country, similar to what the French experienced around 1789. For a brief time, maybe a week or two, there were no differences, the French people, whether they were rich or poor, clergy or noble or peasant, were just French. There was no overriding social construct attached to their name. It was the same in America in the week or two after Sept. 11. We were no longer split, we were all just Americans. Unfortunately, once we started steering away on the war on terror, the partisanship reared its ugly head, rested and relaxed from its period of slumber. Now it's even worse than before. I really fear, now more than ever, that America's decline has begun in the history of the world.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » September 17, 2004, 6:35 pm

Metanis, thanks for sharing that. I thought it was an excellent post and provided an alternative view point as to where some people are comming from emotionally.

Marb

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » September 17, 2004, 6:41 pm

Metanis wrote:
Xzion wrote:If Bush wins, his campeighn managers sure as hell deserve a lot of credit, because they are the best. It boggles my mind that they can manipulate the american public into supporting such a looser ass douchebag. If the campeghns were reversed, then Bush would be down there with Nader,hell they would have fired his ass after 1st term and put up mccain or guliani. His team is the best, there is no disputing that, its just a matter of the american people seeing past that, or buying into it.
I'm going to relate a little personal experience Xzion. It's intended to give you just a glimmer of a spark of a flash of insight into why {at least some of} the American people support George W. Bush.

Until recently I worked on a help desk that was > 75% female. Most of these ladies were middle-aged and raising families. Some were in various stages of marraige and some were single or divorced. In other words a fairly typical group. During the late 90's these were the kind of ladies that Rush Limbaugh would have described as soccer moms.

Every single one of them supported Clinton through he impeachment proceedings. As you might imagine we debated during impromptu moments. As the lone conservative and one of the few men around the group, I used to get harassed quite frequently about my views. I could never understand their support of Clinton, but even the ones who felt he was a low-life pig still supported him politically. Most of these ladies wished that Clinton could have ran again in 2000 because they would have voted for him.

These ladies I worked with mostly supported Gore in 2000, although they were not nearly as fervent about him as was their support of Clinton. Regarding Bush, they derided him as goofy and mostly couldn't stand the sight or the sound of him. One lady in particular, a friend in all other aspects would get seriously angry if I so much as e-mailed her a picture of Bush.

Along came 9/11.

Go back and read that again.

Along came 9/11.

I don't know which images or what particular horror about that day caught their attention. Or perhaps it was the images of Bush the next day in the pit with the firemen. But, suddenly it wasn't appropriate to joke about the cosmetic issues facing Bush such as his language goofs and his smirky grin. Something changed in these women, almost unanimously they were suddenly talking as if they had been lifelong conservatives. Call it the nesting instinct or just call it patriotism but these ladies turned hawkish.

I don't think any of these ladies would be considered strong Bush supporters even now. It may be more important to theorize that they are no longer automatic Democrats. This year Bush and Kerry both need to earn their support and the issue of strong leadership is in play.

I guess I'm trying to lecture you. You do a lot of people disservice when you assume they are peons to be manipulated. Every voter is an individual when they walk into the voting booth. And... no matter how you slice it, George Bush has earned himself a fair number of supporters.

===

In John Kerry's defense, just like in 1966 he stood up and volunteered. He had to know this would be an uphill battle. I don't respect his waffling on the issues, but at least he's providing the voters an alternative.

I didnt mean that in a literal sence, just a personal interpritation, i know many fine Bush supporters.
The most brilliant man i have ever known, whos life story is amazing in several aspects, my own father has been a pretty strong republican threwout his life (granted not conservative in social aspecs), i think he even donates money to the republican party annually
This year, although he has said that he "doesnt care at all for Bush", it looks like he has solid support for the man, for a rather selfish reason imo granted, but still someone on the opposite side of the political spectrum i can relate too. Most of my friends dont give two shits either way about politics, a few of them are strong kerry supporters and a few of them even like bush. Hell, other then myself and my older brother, along with some cousins it looks like my entire big-ass extended family are pretty damn solid republicans, as was i (ignorantly) four or so years ago.

If Guliani or Arnold are to run four years from now against Kerry, i would bet more likely then not that i would support them, im not a democrat or a republican, a conservative or a liberal (okay, in many aspecs i am

), i just look for the right man to bring about progression, unity and flourishment to the U.S. At this point in time i think it is Kerry, after looking at Bush's record I find him to be a horrible, horrible leader...although he does come off as a nice, respectable guy in person.

People need to open there eyes, dont vote on someone because your a godamned democrat or republican, or because your daddy or your girlfriends daddy is a staunch democrat or republican, vote on someone based on your perception, noone elses. 95% of voters this year will go out and vote un-informed, the man who wins on nov.2nd wont by any means be necessarily the better man, or the right man, or the stronger leader, or the man that stands behind most of the american peoples values. It will be the man whos political campeghn last left a sour, one dimensional "bad taste" in the voters mouth.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » September 17, 2004, 7:08 pm

Kaldaur wrote:Kelshara, it wasn't so much automatic support for Bush. It was a rallying of the country, similar to what the French experienced around 1789. For a brief time, maybe a week or two, there were no differences, the French people, whether they were rich or poor, clergy or noble or peasant, were just French. There was no overriding social construct attached to their name. It was the same in America in the week or two after Sept. 11. We were no longer split, we were all just Americans. Unfortunately, once we started steering away on the war on terror, the partisanship reared its ugly head, rested and relaxed from its period of slumber. Now it's even worse than before. I really fear, now more than ever, that America's decline has begun in the history of the world.

I understand all that, and I am all for the pulling together as one after 9/11. It is not just the example I used though, it is more of a general thing. You went from having extremely open and convenient airports to implementing insane security measures (and A LOT of them are just eyecandy for false security and have no real impact). A knee-jerk reaction on laws and regulations. Hell it even fits in on how you support sports, music and what-have-you.

I just find it fascinating

Markulas · Post by **Markulas** » September 17, 2004, 7:34 pm

I honestly think the Democrats want to lose elections. I mean why else would they put Gore and Kerry up to lead the nomination. Honestly if Bush had any real competition he would be out of office, but it seems that Democrats don't want the W. Even watching Gore debating Bush in 2000, Gore came off as a Frankenstein and to be honest politics these days are based on image and appeal.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » September 17, 2004, 8:59 pm

Why another poll asking the same damned question that's been asked here for, oh.. the past 3 years?

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » September 17, 2004, 10:56 pm

Dregor Thule wrote:Why another poll asking the same damned question that's been asked here for, oh.. the past 3 years?

Because the election is so close, that opinion polls might actually mean something now.

Rivera Bladestrike · September 17, 2004, 11:54 pm

Xzion, just to inform you that Arnold cannot run in 4 years...

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » September 18, 2004, 2:48 am

I think that just like last time out, even if Bush loses, he still wins. The Florida bullshit is starting all over again and no one is stopping those no paper trail leaving easy as hell to hack Diebold machines from being used. They have sicked the fucking pentegon on Kerry for christ sakes. There is no means too low or base for these people if it will give them their victory.

This will be a repeat of 2000 anyway, with Bush losing the popular vote but getting re-elected anyhow. The man should lose and be out. The GOP for their own long term future and that of the country should have fucking pulled the plug on the whole damn nest of neo-cons and put someone else capable up there, like Gulianni, McCain, or many other more moderate GOP choices. Instead they are mortgaging their future to tighten their grasp on the present.

I don't know what the fuck the Dems are doing. Kerry should have been a strong canidate with his background and experience, but they have basically let the GOP shit slinging machine go to town with no rebuttle and now instead of discussing the numerous failures of the present administration, we have Bush cashing in on 9/11 like he was somehow Moses dispensing comandments through the Homeland security act instead of the beffudled limp dicked sitting in front of gradeschoolers while the country was getting butfucked piece of shit Jesus freak he is. Kerry is repeating Bob Dole's mistakes and letting campaigners tell him how to do things instead of actually openning his mouth and speaking his mind. I am amazed at how anyone could be losing with such favorable situation, in Iraq.

No matter what political affiliation you are, you have to admit that having anyone other than the neocons in control of things would be an improvement. They sold out their own party to the Crispies and turned the US into a fucking police state, all while fattening their pals bank rolls with war proffiteering money paid for with your tax dollars and the blood of your fellow citizens. Their inability to admit even the slightest mistakes makes them dangerous, as their only response to their failures abroad is to throw more money at the problem or deny its existance. Why are these men not being fired for their fuckups? Why are they being promoted instead?

Fuck the Republicans for their short sighted greed, elitism, and chonisit bullshit that is bankrupting this country ethically, financially, and morally. Fuck the Democrats for their incompetance and week willed bullshit that has allowed this crap to persist. And finally, fuck the third party for making people throw away votes when the damn neocons need to be swept from the fucking face of the earth for the betterment of all people.

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » September 18, 2004, 4:03 am

Rivera Bladestrike wrote:Xzion, just to inform you that Arnold cannot run in 4 years...

There already trying to pass an amendment which would allow foreghners to run, theres a chance

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » September 18, 2004, 4:40 am

The irony of a movement of isolationists pushing for foreigners to be allowed as presidents is staggering.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 18, 2004, 5:32 am

neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon

Time for a new drinking game! Everytime you see the word neocon you have to...

*passes out*

Good fucking lord you liberal pussies use that word a lot!

Can we not name call? I'm almost hoping Kerry gets elected so I don't have to hear neocon this, neocon that for four years! It's easier to bitch about the winner than beat up on the loser.

Sirton · Post by **Sirton** » September 18, 2004, 5:53 am

If they didnt pass it for Hamilton theres no way in Hell for Arnold. And that was around the founding of our country when a bigger percentage were foreigner's. And, I dont think they should allow it aswell for many reasons.

Anyways, Kerry was a empty suit..that wanted to be JFK but never was, except the initials...well that was before he was against JFK and his initials were JFFK John flip flop Kerry. Be a freakin leader not a Senator wind bag. Bring it on...Ohhh shit they bringing it lets hide and say they being mean after we've been doing it for the past 2 years straight. Do they think Americans are that stupid. Damn elitist assholes and there non taxable trust.

Hey, I don't want a gov't controled by one party I just really want the President to be republican and the court very slightly conservative in my personal opinions. Seriously the Dem's need some serious challengers. I want a strong two party system. Gore should of stayed somewhat moderate and sane after his loss and after a year of finding out who he was that would be appealing to the American people, then maybe run again. The Dem. leaders are lame. Can name many acceptable Repubs. can't think of any on the Dem's side in my opinion since Truman, FDR, JFK.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » September 18, 2004, 5:56 am

Can we not name call?

If I call you a fucking chump dick sucker that's name calling.
Neocon is a description of a political leaning just like liberal

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » September 18, 2004, 6:00 am

If I call you a fucking chump dick sucker that's name calling.
Neocon is a description of a political leaning just like liberal

No, Conservative is the antithesis of liberal. Neocon is a VV buzzword, much like El Oh El, etc...neocon is not derived in VV or by any of its members of course...it just seemed cheeky so it is used quite liberally...

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » September 18, 2004, 11:28 am

Winnow wrote:neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon neocon

Time for a new drinking game! Everytime you see the word neocon you have to...

*passes out*

Good fucking lord you liberal pussies use that word a lot! Can we not name call? I'm almost hoping Kerry gets elected so I don't have to hear neocon this, neocon that for four years! It's easier to bitch about the winner than beat up on the loser.

Godamn you spics use that word nigger a lot!

actually OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of people who are critics of the bush admin (even pat buchanan!) use the word neocon to describe there political philosophies, as bush has many differences from a "true conservative"
As they spend more money then any liberal, wave there cock around and start unsuccessfull pre-emptive attacks on nations that pose no threats, and are enemys to the consitution, and the bill of rights, they would love to propose an 8th constitutional amendement to burnt hat shit up, and say we are more "Free" without it
I can relate to some issues with "true" conservatives like john mccain, and true fiscal conservatives like guliani and ah-nuld

Avestan · Post by **Avestan** » September 18, 2004, 12:13 pm

miir wrote:What a dumb poll.

The neocons and conservatives are going to vote yes and the liberals are going to vote no.

Actually, I didnt vote either because neither answer expressed my view which would be more like:

yes, he has the right economic plan

Avestan · Post by **Avestan** » September 18, 2004, 12:16 pm

Xzion wrote:Godamn you spics use that word nigger a lot!

Xzion. . .dude. You do this a lot. Please fucking stop using that word. It is not funny and it makes you look like a racist and a fool. You really can make your non-sensical posts without talking like that. . .and no, it is not ok because you are trying to be sarcastic. Just stop it. . .really.

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » September 18, 2004, 12:24 pm

Winnow wrote:

I think I'm in love...

Kaldaur · Post by **Kaldaur** » September 18, 2004, 12:32 pm

Ann Coulter, fembot from hell!

Midnyte_Ragebringer · September 18, 2004, 1:24 pm

Xzion wrote:If Bush wins, his campeighn managers sure as hell deserve a lot of credit, because they are the best. It boggles my mind that they can manipulate the american public into supporting such a looser ass douchebag. If the campeghns were reversed, then Bush would be down there with Nader,hell they would have fired his ass after 1st term and put up mccain or guliani. His team is the best, there is no disputing that, its just a matter of the american people seeing past that, or buying into it.

More of the credit should go to Kerry and his lack of ability to take it away. He has the media on his side and everything and yet he is failing because he stands for absolutely nothing.

Manipulate the american public? LOL They haven't had to do anything but watch Kerry self-destruct. He has flip flopped his way out of winning.

He could come up big in the debates though and still win. I'm beginning to wonder if he has it in him though. He just may be truly the spineless no stance taking, no true vision candidate he has appeared to be over the last 9 months.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 18, 2004, 2:46 pm

Canelek wrote:
If I call you a fucking chump dick sucker that's name calling.
Neocon is a description of a political leaning just like liberal
No, Conservative is the antithesis of liberal. Neocon is a VV buzzword, much like El Oh El, etc...neocon is not derived in VV or by any of its members of course...it just seemed cheeky so it is used quite liberally...

Exactly. Neocon doesn't flow off the tongue and I don't associate it with conservatives. Neocon makes me want to go buy a neon light system for the bottom of my car or something. Since extreme liberals are called pussies, I'd think the extreme conservatives could be called dicks.

liberal pussies
conservative dicks

This makes it easier for you to make up defeatist one liners:

"We got dicked again!"
"We got fucked that election and now can't get an abortion"
"The independants took it in the ass because at least they're no pussies"

Thess · Post by **Thess** » September 18, 2004, 3:42 pm

With a Bush and a Dick in the whitehouse it's no surprise we are all getting fucked.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » September 18, 2004, 4:04 pm

Neocon is a mainstream term used to describe the exact people I am attributing it to. Even Pat Buchannan singles them out (as neocons) in his new book "Where the Right went Wrong" so your own fucking party is using the term. The irony of it is you don't even know much about the origins of the movement, but you still refer to it as name calling while blindly following its tennents.

The neocons are actually a bunch of former democrats from the carter era, many of them actually powerful jewish americans who were wealthy and tired of Carter's relaxed military policies. Specifically, they wanted to both support Israel above all other powers in the middle east and they wanted to attack the USSR head on by dumping more money into the military and being more brazen with our troop deployments. They jumped ship to the GOP and attracted a lot of that parties Fundie Christian elements and Hawks to their movement. A lot of the pork barrel military spending on Star Wars and other crazy shit like that was their doing, as were a lot of the hidden military subsidies to Israel at that time. These guys have no classical conservative spending agenda; they never have, since the time they were Dems.

Bush2 brought these guys in with him, using the fundie vote and their well oiled shit slinging skill to get him into office. I lot of federal support to pressure things through the supreme court at the end didn't hurt either. Once in power, they were pushing to hit Iraq well before 9/11 ever happened. Iraq was a golden chance for them to line their pockets while destroying the most powerful Arab nation on the planet at the same time. They might have even thought their were WMDs in Iraq, but knowing that there were none certainly would not have stopped them.

If you want sources on this, feel free to read Buchanan's book, hell I did. There are also a lot of liberal and moderate sources on the matter, but I cited him specifically because its impossible to argue that he has an anti GOP agenda, though I am sure some of you will make that ludicrous claim.

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » September 18, 2004, 5:50 pm

Jice Virago wrote:well oiled shit slinging skill

I like this phrase so much I suggest VV establish an honorary WOSSS award. Can you imagine the nomination speeches? Holy crap... just think of the acceptance speech by the winning shit slinger!

MooZilla · Post by **MooZilla** » September 18, 2004, 5:57 pm

PWNED!!!!