For Dar and anyone else who harbors his feelings.

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » September 11, 2004, 9:42 am

After re-reading your sig for the umpteenth time, I just have this to say.

I'm sorry you feel the way you do to my religion. I am sorry that you feel like you have been mistreated in the past by members of it. I'm sorry a portion of our membership are people that claim to be members but do not act upon the instructions we were given of tolerance and forgiveness and that those members may have given you additional cause to have a dislike of our fellowship.

However, that being said, the Gospel is not something only for the weak minded. It is not simply for the fools, nor is it just the fools that embrace it. It's for everyone - much like most other religions. The root of all evil is not religion, as has been said here many times, but it's simply the most common excuse to do bad things while sounding like a good person. And that's all it is - an excuse. You have Christians that read pages of the Bible and use it as an excuse to kill others in the same way that some Muslims read the Koran and use passages in it to strike out at others.

Humans are hard wired to be fearful of what we don't know, and from that fear comes a lack of understanding and intolerance that is rarely addressed with proper parenting - in some cases, it's reinforced and given an exponential boost in that person's mind. When you're taught hate, you're not taught religion; there is no religion on the planet that teaches hatred as it's primary doctrine (except for perhaps Satanism, and I'm not 100% sure on that) but there are people that use it to get others to do what they want them to do in acts of a destructive nature. Does this mean that religion is innately evil? No. It means that there are times and places in our history where evil people have come to positions where they can exploit it for their cause. Hitler, Stalin, Saddam, Dhalmer - they all were evil people; some where just in better places to spread their hatred.

I can't stop you from hating religion. I can apologize for any mistreatment you suffered, because I actually do care about stuff like that, in the hopes that it will allow you to cast a better eye towards our fellowship even though I know in my heart that it won’t. I am afraid that there will never be an amount of speaking, talking, writing, or anything else that would convince you to feel differently, and I am sorry for that. I dearly hope that you do, one day; but for now I hope you accept these words in the nature they were meant, as an apology mixed with an insight from my mind as to human nature and why I am unable to believe you when you say religion is evil when I believe that it is evil people using religion as much as they would use any other excuse – ‘for the good of the Country’, ‘because our race is superior’, ‘because you’re something I’m not and I don’t like you’ – to garner more followers to their side.

Peace be with you.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » September 11, 2004, 12:51 pm

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » September 11, 2004, 4:41 pm

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » September 11, 2004, 5:59 pm

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » September 11, 2004, 7:38 pm

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » September 11, 2004, 8:30 pm

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » September 11, 2004, 8:38 pm

Spang · Post by **Spang** » September 12, 2004, 1:45 am

Drinsic Darkwood · Post by **Drinsic Darkwood** » September 12, 2004, 3:02 am

kyoukan wrote:

Akaran_D wrote:For Dar and anyone else who harbors his feelings.

Asheran Mojomaster · September 12, 2004, 3:53 am

Aaeamdar · Post by **Aaeamdar** » September 12, 2004, 4:51 am

Can I get a smily face holding a fishing rod, please?

Aaeamdar · Post by **Aaeamdar** » September 12, 2004, 5:54 am

By the way, you really should not be issuing an appology. Firstly, I know of no direct way in which I have been harmed by the bigotry of Christains. Secondly, if I ever had been, your appology would be meaningless. There are pleanty of people who are injured every day by people carrying out the will of your God and in the name of your religion. Not extremists. Not outsiders. But people in possitions of authority in your religion. You can give lip service all you like to how "well, when people do those things they aren't really being a Christian." But the fact remains, people you give money to are using that money for the purpse of furthering their adjenda of hate and bigotry.

I have never had an issue with faith or mysticism. You want to go off an believe in Jehova, Satan, Christ, Budda, Gia or Zues I could could not care less. Good for you. But Christian never stop there. They organize, they fund, they make it their business to ensure that laws are passed that force others to live by their rules. When that fails, they often resort to violence to enforce those rules themselves.

These are not isolated events, these are the everyday actions of fine upstanding Christians and their leaders. If you really want to appologize then stop supporting religion. Read your Bible. Pray to your God. But stop supporting whatever church it is you are supporting, because in doing so you are part of the very problem you claim to be sorry about.

Alternatively, you can also applogize by supporting a Christian church (if there is such a thing) that refuses to involve itself in politics and actively denounces all thsoe that do.

Its part of your bible. (Mathew 22:21), yet the lot of you are unable to understand it. Not terribly suprising, however, since hypocracy forms the very brick, or should I say marble, of which the Christian foundation is built.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » September 12, 2004, 6:18 am

Aaeamdar wrote:Jehova

/me throws a rock

Ebumar · Post by **Ebumar** » September 12, 2004, 6:22 am

I hate everything.

Aaeamdar · Post by **Aaeamdar** » September 12, 2004, 6:31 am

Sorry, I had just had a lovely peice of Hallibut. It couldn't be helped.

Brotha · Post by **Brotha** » September 12, 2004, 6:40 am

Why so much irrational hatred towards Christians?

Do you have any idea how many people are fed, clothed, and helped in a whole host of other ways by selfless Christians "carrying out the will of their God and in the name of religion?" This bad side that you seem to think represents all of Christianity is something I personally have never seen. The true Christians I grew up with and know are some of the most decent, honest, and caring people I've ever met.

I'm sorry if you feel their stance on gay marriage is somehow "hate and bigotry," but if you asked them, the vast majority would say they have no problem with homosexuals in general, and you'd find no animosity towards you- far from it in fact. Not everyone who is against gay marriage uses religion as their primary argument. Personally, I'm no longer a Christian and am against gay marriage for reasons that have nothing to do with religion. Most Christians who are for banning gay marriage (that I've talked to or read about) have reasons other than "God doesn't want homosexuals to marry, we better pass a law and impose his will on others."

The church I grew up in wasn't at all involved in politics (I was methodist). I'm glad I supported it with my time and money because I know how much good we did- from sheltering families when their homes were burnt down, to passing out food to the homeless, to rebuilding and repairing homes for poor people used to living in wooden shacks that would fall down if the wind blew hard. Things like this are what the vast majority of churches do and stand for- not "trying to further an agenda of hate and bigotry."

Atokal · Post by **Atokal** » September 12, 2004, 6:47 am

Aaeamdar wrote:By the way, you really should not be issuing an appology. Firstly, I know of no direct way in which I have been harmed by the bigotry of Christains. Secondly, if I ever had been, your appology would be meaningless. There are pleanty of people who are injured every day by people carrying out the will of your God and in the name of your religion. Not extremists. Not outsiders. But people in possitions of authority in your religion. You can give lip service all you like to how "well, when people do those things they aren't really being a Christian." But the fact remains, people you give money to are using that money for the purpse of furthering their adjenda of hate and bigotry.

I have never had an issue with faith or mysticism. You want to go off an believe in Jehova, Satan, Christ, Budda, Gia or Zues I could could not care less. Good for you. But Christian never stop there. They organize, they fund, they make it their business to ensure that laws are passed that force others to live by their rules. When that fails, they often resort to violence to enforce those rules themselves.

These are not isolated events, these are the everyday actions of fine upstanding Christians and their leaders. If you really want to appologize then stop supporting religion. Read your Bible. Pray to your God. But stop supporting whatever church it is you are supporting, because in doing so you are part of the very problem you claim to be sorry about.

Alternatively, you can also applogize by supporting a Christian church (if there is such a thing) that refuses to involve itself in politics and actively denounces all thsoe that do.

.

Dude just about everything you said in your little diatribe can be said about the gay movement around the world.

Keverian FireCry · Post by **Keverian FireCry** » September 12, 2004, 7:23 am

Can someone ban this pathetic waste of flesh before I find out where he lives and castrate him for the sake of humankind?

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » September 12, 2004, 8:24 am

Brotha wrote:I'm sorry if you feel their stance on gay marriage is somehow "hate and bigotry," but if you asked them, the vast majority would say they have no problem with homosexuals in general, and you'd find no animosity towards you- far from it in fact. Not everyone who is against gay marriage uses religion as their primary argument. Personally, I'm no longer a Christian and am against gay marriage for reasons that have nothing to do with religion. Most Christians who are for banning gay marriage (that I've talked to or read about) have reasons other than "God doesn't want homosexuals to marry, we better pass a law and impose his will on others."

Well you and they can say it isn't based on religion, bigotry or hatred. But you don't seem to have the first logical reason. Helpful hint: Just stating its wrong repeatedly does not make it so logically...

...

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » September 12, 2004, 10:02 am

Keverian FireCry wrote:Can someone ban this pathetic waste of flesh before I find out where he lives and castrate him for the sake of humankind?

Was about to ask who you were referring to...then I saw your title

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » September 12, 2004, 10:30 am

The people I give money to support the homeless, help the poor, give aid to those in need in my state, my country, and across the world. I don't work with political organizations of any kind.

There isn't some big Christian grab-bag among churches that they can just reach inside, pull out the donated money from all the denominations across the world, and give to random_senator_03 to further their vows. There are groups that use the moeny that they recieve to do so - but I don't work with them or give money to them.

Again, you lump all of Christianity into one bucket. It just doesn't work that way bro. Outside of Cathlocism (sp, I'm tired) we just don't have some overarching support structure that all of this has to answer to.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » September 12, 2004, 11:13 am

The true Christians I grew up with and know are some of the most decent, honest, and caring people I've ever met.

Shame you turned out the way you did then.

Ebumar · Post by **Ebumar** » September 12, 2004, 1:17 pm

Keverian FireCry wrote:Can someone ban this pathetic waste of flesh before I find out where he lives and castrate him for the sake of humankind?

Hi Kev. Did you even read his post? GG religious zealotism.

Kwonryu DragonFist · September 12, 2004, 1:22 pm

Keverian FireCry · Post by **Keverian FireCry** » September 12, 2004, 2:06 pm

I was refferring to Atokal, did people not read the pathetic drivel that came out of his mouth, DIRECTLY above my post?

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » September 12, 2004, 2:26 pm

Keverian FireCry wrote:Can someone ban this pathetic waste of flesh before I find out where he lives and castrate him for the sake of humankind?

Sure you would!! Real Tough guy behind that monitor.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » September 12, 2004, 3:16 pm

People really need to have faith in themselves, not some made up BS.

If you really want to know why atheists harbor so much apprehension towards christianity, just take a look at the rescent track record of the Crispy set. Several outspoken atheists have dissapeared under mysterious circumstances, various abortion clinic bombings/ death threats to doctors have occured (so many that people have become numbed to it), the massive blunting of social progress through anti-gay legislation and stem cell research bans, and of course the whole FCC fiasco. All these things in the name of a self conflicting 200 year old story book that they don't even follow if it doesn't fit their agenda, and they cannot keep their repressiveness within their own camp; they have to dictate their standards to others. And the real kicker is they do it with the arrogant assumption that we, as free thinkers, are unable to make moral decisions without the guidance of some fictional higher power.

This is what upsets atheists.

We now return you to Jesus and Pals, already in progress....

Sirton · Post by **Sirton** » September 12, 2004, 3:52 pm

They cannot keep their repressiveness within their own camp; they have to dictate their standards to others.

You can say that about any group.

Abortion for example why should Christians that dont want to...have some of there tax money goto it? To some of them its like forcing them in helping to kill babys. Isn't that the same thing. Why should they be conformed to and dictated to the standards in your words of free thinkers. They are close to 80% to what 5%.

Im just saying it goes around with any group trying to promote there self and to protect there self aswell. The free thinkers have much more power than there numbers.

Brotha · Post by **Brotha** » September 12, 2004, 5:07 pm

Arborealus wrote:
Brotha wrote:I'm sorry if you feel their stance on gay marriage is somehow "hate and bigotry," but if you asked them, the vast majority would say they have no problem with homosexuals in general, and you'd find no animosity towards you- far from it in fact. Not everyone who is against gay marriage uses religion as their primary argument. Personally, I'm no longer a Christian and am against gay marriage for reasons that have nothing to do with religion. Most Christians who are for banning gay marriage (that I've talked to or read about) have reasons other than "God doesn't want homosexuals to marry, we better pass a law and impose his will on others."
Well you and they can say it isn't based on religion, bigotry or hatred. But you don't seem to have the first logical reason. Helpful hint: Just stating its wrong repeatedly does not make it so logically......

If I'm not a Christian why do you think I oppose gay marriage? Honestly, answer that. Do you think I'm a homophobe? I'm an open minded who has no problem with same-sex relationships.

I oppose gay marriage because it would be the beginning of the end of marriage as we know it- a core instituion of our society for centuries. It is not in anyway fear mongering or hyperbole for me to state that.

Is there anyone here who favors gay marriage that can think of a single argument against recognizing polygamous and polyamorous relationships as marriages that doesn't contradict your reasons for supporting gay marriage?

I had to dig this up, but this is probably the best piece I've seen making the the "slippery slope" argument (IE legalizing gay marriage will lead to polygamy and polyamory being recognized as well).

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/P ... y.asp?pg=1

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » September 12, 2004, 5:09 pm

Maybe it's just me but I can't for the life of me see a link between gay marriage and polygami or polyamory. Sorry, that one must have gone waaay over my head.

Brotha · Post by **Brotha** » September 12, 2004, 5:10 pm

Kelshara wrote:Maybe it's just me but I can't for the life of me see a link between gay marriage and polygami or polyamory. Sorry, that one must have gone waaay over my head.

You read that piece in 2 minutes?

Thess · Post by **Thess** » September 12, 2004, 5:27 pm

I didn't read that entire article, I stopped at about the second sentance when I found it to be ridiculous.

What's wrong with same sex couples? The same things that are wrong with heterosexual couples.

Marriage lost it's sanctity *YEARS* ago in the United States - it happened when divorce started becoming a regular thing. Personally I don't even believe in marriage.

However - I do not care if a group of consenting adults want to get married, or a woman and a man, or even a ::GASP:: man and man want to get married.

Mplor · Post by **Mplor** » September 12, 2004, 7:43 pm

I did read the article. The author trots out the typical conservative boogeymen like black people (Nigerian adulterers), non-Christian religions* (fundamentalist Mormon polygamists), hippie liberals and communists ("hippie communes").

Then he argues that legalizing gay marriage may well lead to other big changes in the definition of marraige. He spends paragraph after paragraph detailing how marriage could change, but then in half a breath slips in an Appeal to Tradition by asserting that changes to marriage are by definition a bad thing. An unaware reader might walk away reaffirmed in their opposition to gay marriage.

A classic error of the conservative mind-set.

Mp

*Mormons do consider themselves Christian.

Topper · Post by **Topper** » September 12, 2004, 7:57 pm

http://www.mormon.org

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » September 12, 2004, 8:14 pm

Jice Virago wrote:People really need to have faith in themselves, not some made up BS.

If you really want to know why atheists harbor so much apprehension towards christianity, just take a look at the rescent track record of the Crispy set. Several outspoken atheists have dissapeared under mysterious circumstances, various abortion clinic bombings/ death threats to doctors have occured (so many that people have become numbed to it), the massive blunting of social progress through anti-gay legislation and stem cell research bans, and of course the whole FCC fiasco. All these things in the name of a self conflicting 200 year old story book that they don't even follow if it doesn't fit their agenda, and they cannot keep their repressiveness within their own camp; they have to dictate their standards to others. And the real kicker is they do it with the arrogant assumption that we, as free thinkers, are unable to make moral decisions without the guidance of some fictional higher power.

This is what upsets atheists.

We now return you to Jesus and Pals, already in progress....

Most of your post is ignorant blather and you know it Jice.

But let's just deal with the part I've bolded.

I could type in the various Bible passages but I know people like you just scan by without even reading them. Christians however are commanded multiple times in the gospels to "make disciples..., baptizing, teaching them to obey".

Let me repeat that Jice. The Bible commands us to spread the good news of Jesus Christ. Not once or twice, no, it commands us over and over.

Christians are not going to be bullied into silence.

Acies · Post by **Acies** » September 12, 2004, 8:29 pm

I know quite a few Christians, and southern babtists aside, they have never tried to reguritate their belief structures on me. I dunno, maybe I was lucky. However, the problem is not Christians. The problem is Christianity, as in the religion.

People by themselves are generally open and goodly people. However, you get them corralled into pews while this man who thinks anything other than White non-hebrew decent prodestants is going to burn in hell... you catch the drift I am sure.

I find Christians to be very kind people and 'hear' about Christians that do ignorant things often, but this is still a minority when compared to the rest of them. I think what people need to understand is that as long as there is people that come together there is going to be some jack-a-bite who tries to use those people for their own ends. Christians, Muslims, Americans, etc. In my opinion at least.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » September 12, 2004, 8:56 pm

Metanis wrote:[I could type in the various Bible passages

I'm listening. Go for it.

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » September 12, 2004, 9:15 pm

kyoukan wrote:
Metanis wrote:[I could type in the various Bible passages
I'm listening. Go for it.

Matthew 28:18-20 (NIV)

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

Mark 15:15-16

He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Luke 24:46-47

He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » September 12, 2004, 9:24 pm

Brotha wrote:
Arborealus wrote:
Brotha wrote:I'm sorry if you feel their stance on gay marriage is somehow "hate and bigotry," but if you asked them, the vast majority would say they have no problem with homosexuals in general, and you'd find no animosity towards you- far from it in fact. Not everyone who is against gay marriage uses religion as their primary argument. Personally, I'm no longer a Christian and am against gay marriage for reasons that have nothing to do with religion. Most Christians who are for banning gay marriage (that I've talked to or read about) have reasons other than "God doesn't want homosexuals to marry, we better pass a law and impose his will on others."
Well you and they can say it isn't based on religion, bigotry or hatred. But you don't seem to have the first logical reason. Helpful hint: Just stating its wrong repeatedly does not make it so logically......
If I'm not a Christian why do you think I oppose gay marriage? Honestly, answer that. Do you think I'm a homophobe? I'm an open minded who has no problem with same-sex relationships.

I oppose gay marriage because it would be the beginning of the end of marriage as we know it- a core instituion of our society for centuries. It is not in anyway fear mongering or hyperbole for me to state that.

Is there anyone here who favors gay marriage that can think of a single argument against recognizing polygamous and polyamorous relationships as marriages that doesn't contradict your reasons for supporting gay marriage?

I had to dig this up, but this is probably the best piece I've seen making the the "slippery slope" argument (IE legalizing gay marriage will lead to polygamy and polyamory being recognized as well).

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/P ... y.asp?pg=1

Ok well the slippery slope arguement is nonsense logically...There is absolutely 0 evidence just conjecture...

Nevertheless...Let's (for the sake of arguement) say it does lead to recognition of polygamous relationships...what is you logical objection to them? How will this collapse the world into anarchy?

What evidence that you have that this is the "beginning of the end" of marriage (and yes that statement is fear mongering and hyperbole by the way)?

You imply that acceptance of gay marriage threatens heterosexual marriage? evidence?...

You also give your statement weight by calling it a "core institution" of our society (more hyperbole)...You do realize that the majority of marriages end in divorce and that the result has not been total anarchy? Society hasn't collapsed or did I miss that?

Come on what are the real consequences you fear here?

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » September 12, 2004, 9:33 pm

Arborealus wrote:
Brotha wrote:
Arborealus wrote:
Brotha wrote:I'm sorry if you feel their stance on gay marriage is somehow "hate and bigotry," but if you asked them, the vast majority would say they have no problem with homosexuals in general, and you'd find no animosity towards you- far from it in fact. Not everyone who is against gay marriage uses religion as their primary argument. Personally, I'm no longer a Christian and am against gay marriage for reasons that have nothing to do with religion. Most Christians who are for banning gay marriage (that I've talked to or read about) have reasons other than "God doesn't want homosexuals to marry, we better pass a law and impose his will on others."
Well you and they can say it isn't based on religion, bigotry or hatred. But you don't seem to have the first logical reason. Helpful hint: Just stating its wrong repeatedly does not make it so logically......
If I'm not a Christian why do you think I oppose gay marriage? Honestly, answer that. Do you think I'm a homophobe? I'm an open minded who has no problem with same-sex relationships.

I oppose gay marriage because it would be the beginning of the end of marriage as we know it- a core instituion of our society for centuries. It is not in anyway fear mongering or hyperbole for me to state that.

Is there anyone here who favors gay marriage that can think of a single argument against recognizing polygamous and polyamorous relationships as marriages that doesn't contradict your reasons for supporting gay marriage?

I had to dig this up, but this is probably the best piece I've seen making the the "slippery slope" argument (IE legalizing gay marriage will lead to polygamy and polyamory being recognized as well).

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/P ... y.asp?pg=1
Ok well the slippery slope arguement is nonsense logically...There is absolutely 0 evidence just conjecture...

Nevertheless...Let's (for the sake of arguement) say it does lead to recognition of polygamous relationships...what is you logical objection to them? How will this collapse the world into anarchy?

What evidence that you have that this is the "beginning of the end" of marriage (and yes that statement is fear mongering and hyperbole by the way)?

You imply that acceptance of gay marriage threatens heterosexual marriage? evidence?...

You also give your statement weight by calling it a "core institution" of our society (more hyperbole)...You do realize that the majority of marriages end in divorce and that the result has not been total anarchy? Society hasn't collapsed or did I miss that?

Come on what are the real consequences you fear here?

The burden of proof is on gay marraige proponents... not the other way around.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » September 12, 2004, 9:47 pm

Metanis wrote:
Arborealus wrote:
Brotha wrote:
Arborealus wrote:
Brotha wrote:I'm sorry if you feel their stance on gay marriage is somehow "hate and bigotry," but if you asked them, the vast majority would say they have no problem with homosexuals in general, and you'd find no animosity towards you- far from it in fact. Not everyone who is against gay marriage uses religion as their primary argument. Personally, I'm no longer a Christian and am against gay marriage for reasons that have nothing to do with religion. Most Christians who are for banning gay marriage (that I've talked to or read about) have reasons other than "God doesn't want homosexuals to marry, we better pass a law and impose his will on others."
Well you and they can say it isn't based on religion, bigotry or hatred. But you don't seem to have the first logical reason. Helpful hint: Just stating its wrong repeatedly does not make it so logically......
If I'm not a Christian why do you think I oppose gay marriage? Honestly, answer that. Do you think I'm a homophobe? I'm an open minded who has no problem with same-sex relationships.

I oppose gay marriage because it would be the beginning of the end of marriage as we know it- a core instituion of our society for centuries. It is not in anyway fear mongering or hyperbole for me to state that.

Is there anyone here who favors gay marriage that can think of a single argument against recognizing polygamous and polyamorous relationships as marriages that doesn't contradict your reasons for supporting gay marriage?

I had to dig this up, but this is probably the best piece I've seen making the the "slippery slope" argument (IE legalizing gay marriage will lead to polygamy and polyamory being recognized as well).

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/P ... y.asp?pg=1
Ok well the slippery slope arguement is nonsense logically...There is absolutely 0 evidence just conjecture...

Nevertheless...Let's (for the sake of arguement) say it does lead to recognition of polygamous relationships...what is you logical objection to them? How will this collapse the world into anarchy?

What evidence that you have that this is the "beginning of the end" of marriage (and yes that statement is fear mongering and hyperbole by the way)?

You imply that acceptance of gay marriage threatens heterosexual marriage? evidence?...

You also give your statement weight by calling it a "core institution" of our society (more hyperbole)...You do realize that the majority of marriages end in divorce and that the result has not been total anarchy? Society hasn't collapsed or did I miss that?

Come on what are the real consequences you fear here?
The burden of proof is on gay marraige proponents... not the other way around.

Heh rights don't work that way sorry...equal rights are granted to all except where they can be shown to cause harm...Burden of proof is a standard of guilt in criminal trials not in granting human rights...You show tremendous ignorance of the constitution...

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » September 12, 2004, 10:04 pm

It's called an anology..

Ebumar · Post by **Ebumar** » September 12, 2004, 10:05 pm

Keverian FireCry wrote:I was refferring to Atokal, did people not read the pathetic drivel that came out of his mouth, DIRECTLY above my post?

No, actually I have him blocked. The retardation is too much for me to handle. Sorry for spouting at you.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » September 12, 2004, 10:24 pm

Akaran_D wrote:It's called an anology..

Errrm that's not an analogy...

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » September 12, 2004, 11:44 pm

okay so where are the bible passages telling christians to legislate their morality on everyone else? because that is what jice is talking about.

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » September 13, 2004, 12:02 am

Arborealus wrote:Heh rights don't work that way sorry...equal rights are granted to all except where they can be shown to cause harm...Burden of proof is a standard of guilt in criminal trials not in granting human rights...You show tremendous ignorance of the constitution...

This ground has been covered ad nauseum. There is no right to gay marraige espoused in any historical documents. The gay community is attempting to have this "right" created. Most people think the status quo is just fine. Thus, the proponents of this newly created "right aborning" need to justify it's creation. I don't have to be for or against this issue to request deliberate debate pro and con before this new "right" is given a place in the laws of the land.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » September 13, 2004, 12:09 am

Metanis wrote:
Arborealus wrote:Heh rights don't work that way sorry...equal rights are granted to all except where they can be shown to cause harm...Burden of proof is a standard of guilt in criminal trials not in granting human rights...You show tremendous ignorance of the constitution...
This ground has been covered ad nauseum. There is no right to gay marraige espoused in any historical documents. The gay community is attempting to have this "right" created. Most people think the status quo is just fine. Thus, the proponents of this newly created "right aborning" need to justify it's creation. I don't have to be for or against this issue to request deliberate debate pro and con before this new "right" is given a place in the laws of the land.

There is no right for you to masturbate in any historical documents either...Rights do not require specific enumeration...abrogation of any right does...

You really have no clue about the constitution do you?...

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » September 13, 2004, 12:09 am

kyoukan wrote:okay so where are the bible passages telling christians to legislate their morality on everyone else? because that is what jice is talking about.

Show me a society anywhere and any time in history that doesn't "legislate their morality". The way you handle yourself on this board is proof enough that you practice this very human trait.

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » September 13, 2004, 12:13 am

Arborealus wrote:You really have no clue...

Where do rights come from?

Aaeamdar · Post by **Aaeamdar** » September 13, 2004, 12:17 am

No one is arguing for a substantive right for gays to marry. That right does not exist for hetrosexuals either. What is being asked is a right that does have textual support in the 14th and 5th amendments of our constitution - equal protection of the laws. Want to ban gays from being married - no problem - ban breeders too. Give financial, legal and parental rights to breeders, then have to give those same rights to gays. Its really not new, nor radicial. The laws exist, but they are not being enforced.