What the hell does this mean?

miir · Post by **miir** » September 9, 2004, 3:26 pm

I think Sirton is a decent guy, but his debating and discussion skills are abysmal.

You don't get any credibility here by bragging about who you know, your education or who your family knows. You get respect by presenting clear and concise arguments.

I disagree with most of what Adex says and I find his posting style awkward but he has good grammar, spelling and can express himself clearly.
I think Metanis is a dunderhead but he occasionally has unexpected insight in his posts.
Sirton posts are difficult to read and comprehend and he spends too much time trying to prove his credibility.

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » September 9, 2004, 3:27 pm

Sueven wrote:
Kelgar wrote:Doctors aren't immune from being stupid fucks, but there's a different reason to doubt him. I vaguely recall that he is only around Xzion's age, give or take a year. The only 22-23 y/o MDs I've ever seen were on TV.
Actually, that's totally wrong. Sirton was well into his medical education 3 or 4 years ago, long before I was in college (I think I'm a little older than Xzion).

Additionally, a lot of the liberals on this board regularly underestimate Sirton, who's arguments frequently carry far more depth and nuance than what's posted by Midnyte and Metanis. People get carried away by his tendency to make emotional posts and his lack of grammar, but those are just straw men. Hell, Arborealous connects most of his sentences with ellipses and makes liberal use of the smileys, but he makes some of the most intelligent, thoughtful posts on the board.

You can all keep ignoring and discrediting Sirton all you want, but the fact is, he's a smart guy who generally presents intelligent arguments, links more sources than almost any liberal here, and does legitimately have more life experience and knowledge than many people here. To ignore him is to deprive yourself of relatively intelligent debate in favor of listening to Midnyte rant about Muslims some more.

This was a classy post.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » September 9, 2004, 3:41 pm

Adex_Xeda wrote:People have now developed this attitude that if any thing goes wrong in their life, "THEY" are entitled to millions of dollars.

It has gone WAY beyond punishment for malpractice. It's now considered the friggen lottery.

A old adage says that there is no such thing as a free lunch.

People are being selfish and are abusing the courts to grab money. That money coesn't come from the doctor or the hospital, it comes from all of our wallets through higher taxes and insane health insurance premiums.

Individual selfishness, yet again is scarring our society.

Individuals DO have an impact on society. When we make decisions to profit ourselves at the expense of others we all pay.

We need to change our attitudes. We need to change our hearts.

As a society, we feed on our own flesh.

This is something I absolutely agree with 100%.

There has been an atmosphere of denial about things in the country today. Politicians cannot admit when they make a mistake, people always seek to blame outhers for their failings and mistakes, and everyone in general seems to like playing the victim. People have to understand and accept that sometimes things simply are, and there is no outside force to blame. The "Liberal Pussies" introduced this mentality into the country, but everyone has taken it and run with it since. People need to own up to their mistakes and accept that some things that happen in life just happen on their own.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » September 9, 2004, 3:47 pm

Yeah...

Some kind of balance needs to be worked out though. Because simply putting liability caps on suits can result in people not being reimbursed for all the extra treatment they may need. Keeping things like they are now hurts the medical industry and inflates costs, etc.

Anyone have a totally new suggestion that meets the balance of the two?

PS: A totally socialized medical system might solve this,(free coverage) but would likely not reward good medical professionals. Unless there is a way to solve that problem, don't comment on that please. It's also unlikely that we'd embrace anything remotely 'socialized.'

-=Lohrno

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » September 9, 2004, 3:54 pm

Most of the "liberals" here are either not in college yet, are in college and not graduated, or live off of the government or their parent's and hold no real job.

And you call Midnyte/Cartalas/Metanis/Brotha clowns.

Actually...I will see your Midnyte and raise you a Xzion.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » September 9, 2004, 3:56 pm

Most of the "conservatives" here wear panties on their heads, sing brittney spears music, and fart a lot.

That claim holds the same weight as yours.

-=Lohrno

miir · Post by **miir** » September 9, 2004, 3:56 pm

Most of the "liberals" here are either not in college yet, are in college and not graduated, or live off of the government or their parent's and hold no real job.

What the?

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » September 9, 2004, 4:00 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:Most of the "liberals" here are either not in college yet, are in college and not graduated, or live off of the government or their parent's and hold no real job.

And you call Midnyte/Cartalas/Metanis/Brotha clowns.

Actually...I will see your Midnyte and raise you a Xzion.

Damnit I voted against Wireless Internet access at the unemployment office.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » September 9, 2004, 4:08 pm

I'm in college and am not ashamed to admit it. What the fuck does that matter? If you see me regularly making arrogant posts that reveal a lack of real world experience and understanding while simultaneously bloating my ego then you can feel free to call me on it. Until then, my present educational status has absofuckinglutely nothing to do with anything I write.

Toshira · Post by **Toshira** » September 9, 2004, 4:18 pm

Thess wrote:I've never had the problem with my female gynocologist being to 'rough' she even uses a lava lamp to make sure her hands aren't to cold, and doesn't have stirrups!

You know, I went with my girlfriend a few years back to planned parenthood, and the female OB-GYN said "Wow, you have a wonderful cerevix" (to my gf, obviously). W-T-F.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » September 9, 2004, 4:38 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:Most of the "liberals" here are either not in college yet, are in college and not graduated, or live off of the government or their parent's and hold no real job.

Most? Some certainly, but that is no different than some of the conservatives.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » September 9, 2004, 5:46 pm

As a 34 year old father of two with multiple graduate degrees I resent that remark Kilmoll. Being a former Republican who was quickly rising in ranks of state politics I can tell you from personal experience that many of you neocons have no idea what the Republican party is truly all about... or maybe you do. It's all about 1 thing and one thing only, money. Everything else, no matter what they tell you, is an afterthought.

At one time most American's realized this until they brought in the Christian Collition of willing sheep to strengthen their numbers. I'm a Christian but I think, I question. Much of Bush's support in the South is primarily due to 2 things. Guns and Religion. The Republicans have done a good job of painting all Liberals ad Anti-Gun and Anti-Religion. It's totally untrue but the unwashed masses believe pretty much anything their local minister tells them and the Bush re-election committee made sure they has flyer ready to hand out after Sunday service.

At our Church picnic a couple of year ago one of our Elders, who shouldn't really be a Presbyterian anyway said that his favorite political comment of all time, because it was the Truth was this:

If you aren't a Democrat when you're 20, you have no Heart.
If you aren't a Republican when you're 40, you have no Brain.

Because I couldn't let that statement just pass by I quickly added... So I guess that person feels comfortable admiting they have become a greedy bastard in their old age who cares only for themselves? He didn't think it was funny and said that isn't what his statement meant... yet after a very long discussion he still couldn't tell me that it meant anything different.

Believe what you want, but if Bush is elected again in Nov. we are going to be in for a very rough 4 years.

Marb

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » September 9, 2004, 7:22 pm

Sueven wrote:Additionally, a lot of the liberals on this board regularly underestimate Sirton, who's arguments frequently carry far more depth and nuance than what's posted by Midnyte and Metanis. People get carried away by his tendency to make emotional posts and his lack of grammar, but those are just straw men.

he could be the smartest man in the world. if 99% of his posts can be amounted "lol my seekret soursez in teh white house tell me that kerry is a fag rofl" I'm still going to consider him a moron.

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » September 9, 2004, 7:39 pm

Marbus wrote:As a 34 year old father of two with multiple graduate degrees I resent that remark Kilmoll. Being a former Republican who was quickly rising in ranks of state politics I can tell you from personal experience that many of you neocons have no idea what the Republican party is truly all about... or maybe you do. It's all about 1 thing and one thing only, money. Everything else, no matter what they tell you, is an afterthought.

At one time most American's realized this until they brought in the Christian Collition of willing sheep to strengthen their numbers. I'm a Christian but I think, I question. Much of Bush's support in the South is primarily due to 2 things. Guns and Religion. The Republicans have done a good job of painting all Liberals ad Anti-Gun and Anti-Religion. It's totally untrue but the unwashed masses believe pretty much anything their local minister tells them and the Bush re-election committee made sure they has flyer ready to hand out after Sunday service.

At our Church picnic a couple of year ago one of our Elders, who shouldn't really be a Presbyterian anyway said that his favorite political comment of all time, because it was the Truth was this:

If you aren't a Democrat when you're 20, you have no Heart.
If you aren't a Republican when you're 40, you have no Brain.
Because I couldn't let that statement just pass by I quickly added... So I guess that person feels comfortable admiting they have become a greedy bastard in their old age who cares only for themselves? He didn't think it was funny and said that isn't what his statement meant... yet after a very long discussion he still couldn't tell me that it meant anything different.

Believe what you want, but if Bush is elected again in Nov. we are going to be in for a very rough 4 years.

Marb

Great post, i too come from primarily a republican backround and was able to break ranks with there ideals when i opened up my eyes and saw the truth behind there philosophys, sure, I personally benefit, as does my familys business with four more years of Bush, but i cannot vote for that man, or most modern day republicans/conservatives (neocons)without holding a guilty conscience
One of the main Republican canidates for senator in my state has been a long time family friend and i have met him quite a few times threwout my childhood,hes not a bad guy nor do i have anything against him, yet when election time comes I will all in my power to see that he does not become my states senator by casting a vote against him.

Unfortunately most people choose there political party based on there family backround. If someones dads republican, chances are they will hold the same political viewpoint just for that reason, more then likely because they dont feel like contemplating the issues for themselves...I myself was in a smililar vote when i supported bush four years ago, not knowing what the fuck he stood for besides hearing that hes "not a godamn democrat who will just tax us all to hell"

I would be willing to bet that at least 80% of the people on this board, and in america for that matter vote according to how there parents do. I will make a poll right now to see if thats proveable on a small scale (friends dont count, as everyone has friends with a wide variety of political viewpoints)

Thess · Post by **Thess** » September 9, 2004, 7:43 pm

Xzion wrote:Unfortunately most people choose there political party based on there family backround. If someones dads republican, chances are they will hold the same political viewpoint just for that reason, more then likely because they dont feel like contemplating the issues for themselves...I myself was in a smililar vote when i supported bush four years ago, not knowing what the fuck he stood for besides hearing that hes "not a godamn democrat who will just tax us all to hell"

I remember getting in an argument with you about Bush!

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » September 9, 2004, 7:51 pm

heh, no shit, I was still for him back then?

Raistin · Post by **Raistin** » September 9, 2004, 8:11 pm

Didnt Sirton make/lead CT before Xan?

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » September 9, 2004, 8:21 pm

He was the second guild leader.

Sirton · Post by **Sirton** » September 10, 2004, 3:37 am

The problem with the medical industry is that MAJOR MONEY was seen to be made by other groups by both Republicans and Democrats. They then decided hey lets all get part of it, because the medical industry was having some trouble at the time and they were able to get there hands in on it.

Republicans and insurance companies have screwed it.
Democrats and lawyers have screwed it.
And bad Doctors have screwed it.

Solutions?

Well I’m not king, but I personally believe first step is to cap law suits to many details to go into the certain cap I’m talking about... In Texas since they passed that amendment on caps...Lawsuits have went down by 10%, mainly the frivolous lawsuits.

Now the problem is who gets that 10% of money...well the republicans and insurance company's haven’t decreased insurance rates much at all. Only the doctor ran insurance companies have, so they aren't doing what they should be. Hospitals are going for major profit and increasing there rates now since they can grab a bit of that pie. They charge way to much now.

Rant mode:
Story on hospitals and companies: Ice pack used in surgery 800$ charged to the insurance company, BS increasing all our rates. The group now is devising there own that may cost 200$, so the cost will go down on the patient via his insurance company and cost down in medical industry overall. Dr. does a life saving surgery gets paid $1100 but then has to pay employees and others with that cash during that time at his office $1200, so many Drs really don’t like doing major surgeries that last over 3hrs they don’t make fortunes on it unless there plastic surgeons, hand surgeons ect. Hospital charges patient $4000. Supply companies ect. charge $5000. Patient then yells at Doctor about it.

So another step I think would be to target insurance companies make more doctor ran groups, and open up more markets with doctors devising ways to counter these companies charging an arm and leg for shit like ICE.
More can be done to make this better via politically and by the people.

Then target the Hospitals....breakup these big business groups running em purely for profit. get people in control that care about the industry like employer owned hospitals or doctor owned hospitals or non profit organizations.

Then elect more non lawyers into office...either republican or democrat...most all they care about is to screw whoever isn't in there pocket.

Always work on getting out the bad Doctors. Let Doctors police there own. They see bad Doctors they boot there ass out of the community. The Doctor is marked were he goes. Don’t let those Doctors sue those societies just cause they caused em mental problems unless they can proof it was some conspiracy or proof they are actually a good doctor wrongly done(refer to medical court panel). If a Doctor screws up sure sew his ass, but not because some BS science(Edwards) or some retired Doctor 105years old in Florida, who doesn’t know what ICU is, says so.

If a frivolous lawsuits is proven...make the accuser pay court fees on both sides and lawyer fees.

Get a patient Bill of rights passed...let patients choose there Doctors if they are qualified. Treat the patients with respect.

Maybe setup a special court for medical malpractice.... A court that knows about medicine, surgery and the research and have a panel review the cases before it.

The main thing is let people who love and care about there industry have a major say so in it. They will be the ones doing there best to not let it fall.

Why the hell are insurance companies, lawyers, and politicians telling you what to do about medicine, or which doctor you can see? Money and Power. It is what everything is about in this world.

Btw: I’m 29 not 22/23 about to start a practice in March. Was GL of CT for 2years after Bandog and before Xanupox. Saw some askin.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 10, 2004, 4:38 am

Sirton wrote:
Btw: I’m 29 not 22/23 about to start a practice in March. Was GL of CT for 2years after Bandog and before Xanupox. Saw some askin.

I joined CT while Sirton was still GL. Early on, I lost out on a Jaundiced BP because Sirton gave it to Pravus Dei after they bitched about us steamrolling them on a Trak run. (and we did flatten them with Toshira and Xanupox leading the charge!

) I was pretty disappointed after joining expressly for the loot whoring and steamrolling shenanigans but it does show that Sirton has some integrity!

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » September 10, 2004, 7:39 am

I remember sirton loved killing me in TOV when my ass was on vacation!