Pentagon to check Kerry war record

[Siji]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... world.html

Pentagon to check Kerry war record

In a fresh blow to John Kerry's flagging presidential campaign, the Pentagon has ordered an official investigation into the awards of the Democratic senator's five Vietnam War decorations.

News of the inquiry came as President George W Bush opened an 11-point lead over his rival - the widest margin since serious campaigning began - according to the first poll released since last week's Republican convention.

The highly unusual inquiry is to be carried out by the inspector-general's office of the United States navy, for which Sen Kerry served as a Swift Boat captain for four months in 1968, making two tours of duty.

He was wounded in action and subsequently awarded three Purple Hearts, a Silver Star and a Bronze Star. But for the past month, the exact details of Mr Kerry's military service in Vietnam have become shrouded in a controversy that the navy has now decided warrants a full-blown search for the truth.

According to a self-styled group of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, many of whom served in Vietnam during the same period, Mr Kerry exaggerated the significance of combat incidents and inaccurately reported the circumstances of his injuries, at least one of which was allegedly self-inflicted. The accusations are repeated in a book, Unfit to Command, which was published last month.

Last week, the Kerry campaign attempted to leave the Vietnam debate behind, as signs appeared that the controversy was damaging Mr Kerry's standing in the polls. But to the consternation of campaign strategists, the US navy has now agreed to a request by Judicial Watch, a bi-partisan lobby group, for a full inquiry. Judicial Watch is calling for the Navy to report before the elections, but Navy officials are so far refusing to give any timetable for the inquiry.

In an August letter to the Pentagon, the group's president, Tom Fitton, requested an investigation into the "determination and final disposition of the awards granted to Lieutenant (junior grade) John Forbes Kerry, US Naval Reserve", in response to the Swift Boat Veterans' allegations.

A navy spokesman confirmed on Friday that the inspector-general's office at the Pentagon had authorised the inquiry. "It is the responsibility of all personnel to correct errors in official records," said the spokesman. Another official said privately: "There's a feeling that it's time to deal with this thoroughly, once and for all."

Among other records to be examined is a citation of Mr Kerry for bravery that was apparently signed by the former Navy Secretary, John Lehman, and contributed to the award of his silver star. The glowing citation states: "By his brave actions, bold initiative and unwavering devotion to duty, Lt Kerry reflected great credit on himself." But Mr Lehman denies all knowledge of the commendation. "It's a total mystery to me," he said last week. "I never saw it, I never signed it and I never approved it." The inquiry will also investigate other reports and citations leading to the award of Mr Kerry's medals.

On Friday, Mr Lehman endorsed the investigation of Mr Kerry's awards, saying that the relevant navy records needed to be "thoroughly researched and the facts established". Mr Fitton said: "We hope this is the beginning of an actual investigation of the legitimacy of Sen Kerry's awards by the navy and the Pentagon."

In an angry statement from the Kerry campaign headquarters, Michael Meehan, Mr Kerry's senior adviser, condemned the navy probe as an expensive waste of the Pentagon's resources.

"The facts are clear," said Mr Meehan. "The navy awarded John Kerry the Silver Star, a Bronze Star with Combat V and three Purple Hearts. This is a waste of taxpayers' dollars and the Pentagon's time, especially during wartime."

The inquiry comes at the end of the worst week of Mr Kerry's campaign. The poll showing an 11-point lead by President Bush, to be published in this week's Time magazine, was taken during the first three days of the Republican Convention in New York, which featured repeated direct attacks on Mr Kerry as an unreliable candidate for the role of Commander-in-Chief during the war on terror.

-----

If Bush was a quarter as good of a president as his employees are at public misdirection, even I'd vote for him.

[kyoukan]

puke politics. a new low for the bush administration.

[Siji]

puke politics. a new low for the bush administration.

I agree. But I've also come to the disgusting realization that unless Kerry starts hitting hard with the massive amount of damning information about Bush and his record, that he's going to lose. The Bush campaign doesn't give a fuck about public opinion of how they win - as long as they win. Kerry is attempting to be the better man, and he's going to lose the election for it. He needs to stop reacting to Bush, and move forward with his own attacks. This is how Bush is going to play it, and he's got the entire government at his disposal to distract the public. Kerry needs to reevaluate his campaign direction.

[Aruman]

Well, if in fact the following is true:

Among other records to be examined is a citation of Mr Kerry for bravery that was apparently signed by the former Navy Secretary, John Lehman, and contributed to the award of his silver star. The glowing citation states: "By his brave actions, bold initiative and unwavering devotion to duty, Lt Kerry reflected great credit on himself." But Mr Lehman denies all knowledge of the commendation. "It's a total mystery to me," he said last week. "I never saw it, I never signed it and I never approved it." The inquiry will also investigate other reports and citations leading to the award of Mr Kerry's medals.

If Lehman quote of "I never saw it, I never signed it and I never approved it." is true, then maybe there is some truth in what the SBV have been saying.

Innocent until proven guilty though is how this should be viewed.

I didn't have any issues with Kerry's service record, I do have issues with his actions after he was discharged.

It will be interesting to see what the inquiry turns up.

[Brotha]

puke politics. a new low for the bush administration.

Did you even read the fucking article?

But to the consternation of campaign strategists, the US navy has now agreed to a request by Judicial Watch, a bi-partisan lobby group, for a full inquiry. Judicial Watch is calling for the Navy to report before the elections, but Navy officials are so far refusing to give any timetable for the inquiry.

In an August letter to the Pentagon, the group's president, Tom Fitton, requested an investigation into the "determination and final disposition of the awards granted to Lieutenant (junior grade) John Forbes Kerry, US Naval Reserve", in response to the Swift Boat Veterans' allegations.

Kerry is attempting to be the better man, and he's going to lose the election for it.

Kerry is attempting to be the better man? If I was slightly more drunk I'd probably piss myself from laughing too hard. Kerry is going to do exactly what he's always done- follow what the polls dictate. His attempt at ignoring criticism with the "how dare you question my patriotism?!" crap obviously didn't work, so now he'll go on the offensive and take a different approach. Trying to be the better man...hahahaha what a fucking joke.

[Cartalas]

/waves bye to Capt. Flip Flop

[Arborealus]

There we go...let's just take back all those medals awarded during Vietnam...simply because someone who wrote a thousand of them cannot remember writing one about a person who (at the time was politically insignificant)...

Lets see these awards were given to a fairly unknown Lt JG for relatively minor events (ie he didn't single handedly stop the Tet offensive) during the conflict...Clearly the democrats were setting him up for a run for political office 36 years later...

Next week the CMA will be awarded to Bush because they neglected to notice that while he was AWOL he single handedly flew to Pnom Penh and won the war...

I guess my Grandfather's Purple Heart and Silver star from the Marshalls Campaign in WWII are no longer real because no one seems to remember writing them...

This is abhorrent if true...

[Metanis]

puke politics. a new low for the bush administration.

Thanks for the chuckle this morning Kooky. You know all about puke politics as you're the undisputed master on the boards here.

[Kelshara]

I still find it hillarious how the neocons attack Kerry's service record when their glorious leader's record is nothing but a pile of shit. Postponed 5 times? Ben Barnes admitting that he helped Bush get into the National Guard to avoid Vietnam and he says "I am ashamed and I am sorry". Of course then he promptly disappeared for long periods of times, skipped medical checks and lost his lisence to fly.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Aye Kelshara. Both men's records are very suspect. And both should be investigated.

[Siji]

[Vetiria]

Aye Kelshara. Both men's records are very suspect. And both should be investigated.

No, neither should be investigated. This junk should be left in the 1970's.

[Winnow]

I guess my Grandfather's Purple Heart and Silver star from the Marshalls Campaign in WWII are no longer real because no one seems to remember writing them...

I'm betting your grandfather received more than a scrape for his purple heart. In WW 2 men received wounds worse than what Kerry received for one of his purple hearts on a daily basis without even thinking about a purple heart much less asking for one.

I don't think you can relate the two. A WW 2 vet would have like 50 purple hearts on average if you took the description of the bandaid scratch for one of Kerrys hearts. That's not to discount other purple hearts in Vietnam, only the specific description of Kerrys and request for the heart.

I'd like to get a bi-partisan final conclusion on this and let it rest because it is disrespectful to other purple heart winners to have someone with scratches lobbying for them to get enough to go home when the award is a serious medal much deserved in most cases. Kerry is made out to be a war hero when he may have been actively trying to obtain multiple hearts for a ticket home while others in his exact same position involved in the same battle that Kerry won his silver star (the other guy didn't receive a star) on the same boat received 3 hearts and stayed. There's your hero.

In the specific area of military service, Kerry wins over Bush because he went to Vietnam for 3 months. Period. That's what matters and not the questionable medals. I will concede that every time but when heroics are brought into play, those need to be verified a little more extensively than time spent in Vietnam when used as a tool in a political race.

The sad part is that Kerry had to push his 3 months in Vietnam so hard because of his actions following those three months to try and convince the american people he's a strong leader capable of being Commander in Chief. He's a mixed up man and whatever his intentions are now, they are marred by flip flops that should raise questions to anyone voting for him on whether what you see now is what you'll get in the White House.

[kyoukan]

Did you even read the fucking article?

Yes. Judicual Watch is a pro-GOP lobby that was founded for the sole reason of smearing Clinton. You'd know that if you have even a tiny ounce of political savvy beyond "durrr. bush good, liberals bad"

[Arborealus]

I'm betting your grandfather received more than a scrape for his purple heart. In WW 2 men received wounds worse than what Kerry received for one of his purple hearts on a daily basis without even thinking about a purple heart much less asking for one.

Last time I checked one did not "ask" for a medal one's CO or a medical officer did. And the standards for award of these medals have been the same as long as the medals have existed.

I don't think you can relate the two.

Why not? The standard for the Purple heart is and has been injury resulting from enemy action...I don't think he fell on the shrapnel...

A WW 2 vet would have like 50 purple hearts on average if you took the description of the bandaid scratch for one of Kerrys hearts. That's not to discount other purple hearts in Vietnam, only the specific description of Kerrys and request for the heart.

The guy was hit by shrapnel 3 times did you read the medical reports I posted some days back? Severity of the wound has never had anything to do with the award. The standard is injury resulting from enemy action. Again you are saying it was "requested." Medals are requested by CO or Medical Officers not by the recipient.

I'd like to get a bi-partisan final conclusion on this and let it rest because it is disrespectful to other purple heart winners to have someone with scratches lobbying for them to get enough to go home when the award is a serious medal much deserved in most cases.

So you think somehow the same records supplemented by 36 years of forgotten memories augumented by political agendas is going to come up with a more accurate view? Heh sure......Clearly no one in the administration has an agenda here...

Kerry is made out to be a war hero when he may have been actively trying to obtain multiple hearts for a ticket home while others in his exact same position involved in the same battle that Kerry won his silver star (the other guy didn't receive a star) on the same boat received 3 hearts and stayed. There's your hero.

Errrrm Kerry didn't recieve a medical discharge...he finished 2 tours of duty. In re the other guy on the same boat not recieving a Silver Star. Kerry actually gave the orders (according to the commendations) to return/remain and continue supporting fire.

I will concede that every time but when heroics are brought into play, those need to be verified a little more extensively than time spent in Vietnam when used as a tool in a political race.

I don't recall anyone saying Kerry was a hero. But he was there and he did serve honorably and with at least normal distinction.

He's a mixed up man and whatever his intentions are now, they are marred by flip flops that should raise questions to anyone voting for him on whether what you see now is what you'll get in the White House.

Flip flops?...Ya know I keep hearing this...I have looked at his voting records and comments...He has voted for 16 out of the 19 military appropriations bills before congress during his tenure...The times he voted against were and this is noted in the record due to excessive unrelated riders in the bills. His position statements on these votes are all clear. Its a really nice sound bite to say "flip flop"...but ya know he hasn't flip flopped at all...

Bush on the other hand cut off combat pay to the soldiers in Iraq right after the "mission" was "accomplished"...though of course there have been over 800 casualties since that display...and more soldiers injured last month than in any single month in Iraq...But of course that extra $75 per month per soldier isn't merited...That strikes me as a fairly significant inconsistency...

[Kelshara]

I'd like to get a bi-partisan final conclusion on this and let it rest because it is disrespectful to other purple heart winners to have someone with scratches lobbying for them to get enough to go home when the award is a serious medal much deserved in most cases.

No it isn't. It is disrespectful to anyone who has served in the military when you watched the carrier crap Bush pulled off. If you get any kind of injury in battle you get a purple heart. Medals are handed out like candy, get that through your thick head.

Bush supporters are truly starting to disgust me. And the more I hear from y'all the more I understand my European friends who laugh at you.

[Winnow]

I'm betting your grandfather received more than a scrape for his purple heart. In WW 2 men received wounds worse than what Kerry received for one of his purple hearts on a daily basis without even thinking about a purple heart much less asking for one.

Last time I checked one did not "ask" for a medal one's CO or a medical officer did. And the standards for award of these medals have been the same as long as the medals have existed.

You are correct. You're not supposed to ask for a medal. It's ok to keep reminding your CO about it though until it is requested I suppose.

As for your comments about purple hearts and the requirements remaining the same. The requirements are the same. The requests for them and distribution of them can change without the requirements changing.

Say what you want, but the common soldier in WW 2 wasn't going to ask for a purple heart or remind his CO about a purple heart for a scratch. Most of the soldiers in Vietnam wouldn't either.

I didn't say Kerry received a medical discharge.

"I don't recall anyone saying Kerry was a hero"

You must have missed the DNC.

[Arborealus]

I'm betting your grandfather received more than a scrape for his purple heart. In WW 2 men received wounds worse than what Kerry received for one of his purple hearts on a daily basis without even thinking about a purple heart much less asking for one.

Last time I checked one did not "ask" for a medal one's CO or a medical officer did. And the standards for award of these medals have been the same as long as the medals have existed.

You are correct. You're not supposed to ask for a medal. It's ok to keep reminding your CO about it though until it is requested I suppose.

As for your comments about purple hearts and the requirements remaining the same. The requirements are the same. The requests for them and distribution of them can change without the requirements changing.

Say what you want, but the common soldier in WW 2 wasn't going to ask for a purple heart or remind his CO about a purple heart for a scratch. Most of the soldiers in Vietnam wouldn't either.

Ok are you saying that kerry asked for his? because you seem to be implying this to me...if so what are you basing this on?

[Brotha]

Did you even read the fucking article?

Yes. Judicual Watch is a pro-GOP lobby that was founded for the sole reason of smearing Clinton. You'd know that if you have even a tiny ounce of political savvy beyond "durrr. bush good, liberals bad"

http://www.miami.com/mld/miami/3638040.htm

A government watchdog organization raised the stakes Wednesday in the widening corporate financial scandals by filing suit against Vice President Dick Cheney and his former company Halliburton Co., alleging accounting fraud that cost shareholders millions of dollars.

The lawsuit by Judicial Watch, filed in U.S. District Court in Dallas, was the first legal action to target a member of the Bush administration, which is trying to quell the political storm and public discontent rising over fraudulent accounting practices.

Wow....what a GOP attack dog!

[Cartalas]

Did you even read the fucking article?

Yes. Judicual Watch is a pro-GOP lobby that was founded for the sole reason of smearing Clinton. You'd know that if you have even a tiny ounce of political savvy beyond "durrr. bush good, liberals bad"

http://www.miami.com/mld/miami/3638040.htm

A government watchdog organization raised the stakes Wednesday in the widening corporate financial scandals by filing suit against Vice President Dick Cheney and his former company Halliburton Co., alleging accounting fraud that cost shareholders millions of dollars.

The lawsuit by Judicial Watch, filed in U.S. District Court in Dallas, was the first legal action to target a member of the Bush administration, which is trying to quell the political storm and public discontent rising over fraudulent accounting practices.

Wow....what a GOP attack dog!

Kooky owned for the 10024832424 Time

[kyoukan]

yes nice googling.

http://www.judicialwatch.org/cases.shtml

their record speaks for itself.

[Kylere]

Liberals Bad
Bush also Bad
Kerry also TeH suck

I have more faith in the honestly and integrity of the RIAA than I do in either candidate.

[Acies]

I'm betting your grandfather received more than a scrape for his purple heart. In WW 2 men received wounds worse than what Kerry received for one of his purple hearts on a daily basis without even thinking about a purple heart much less asking for one.

Last time I checked one did not "ask" for a medal one's CO or a medical officer did. And the standards for award of these medals have been the same as long as the medals have existed.

You are correct. You're not supposed to ask for a medal. It's ok to keep reminding your CO about it though until it is requested I suppose.

As for your comments about purple hearts and the requirements remaining the same. The requirements are the same. The requests for them and distribution of them can change without the requirements changing.

Say what you want, but the common soldier in WW 2 wasn't going to ask for a purple heart or remind his CO about a purple heart for a scratch. Most of the soldiers in Vietnam wouldn't either.

I didn't say Kerry received a medical discharge.

"I don't recall anyone saying Kerry was a hero"

You must have missed the DNC.

Winnow, please quit implying that Kerry ASKED for medals. We have many Soldiers here on the boards, I think any one of them (with the exception of those who would lie/cheat/murder their grandmothers for Bush) can state that requesting a medal is just not done.

On another note, WW2 and Vietnam were two differant wars. I am trying to compile facts about how many medals were given out during Vietnam as compared to WW2, but the moment I type in medal and vietnam in any search engine, I end up with 50+ pages of Republican propoganda on Kerry. It may take a while.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

I'm betting your grandfather received more than a scrape for his purple heart. In WW 2 men received wounds worse than what Kerry received for one of his purple hearts on a daily basis without even thinking about a purple heart much less asking for one.

Last time I checked one did not "ask" for a medal one's CO or a medical officer did. And the standards for award of these medals have been the same as long as the medals have existed.

You are correct. You're not supposed to ask for a medal. It's ok to keep reminding your CO about it though until it is requested I suppose.

As for your comments about purple hearts and the requirements remaining the same. The requirements are the same. The requests for them and distribution of them can change without the requirements changing.

Say what you want, but the common soldier in WW 2 wasn't going to ask for a purple heart or remind his CO about a purple heart for a scratch. Most of the soldiers in Vietnam wouldn't either.

I didn't say Kerry received a medical discharge.

"I don't recall anyone saying Kerry was a hero"

You must have missed the DNC.

Winnow, please quit implying that Kerry ASKED for medals. We have many Soldiers here on the boards, I think any one of them (with the exception of those who would lie/cheat/murder their grandmothers for Bush) can state that requesting a medal is just not done.

On another note, WW2 and Vietnam were two differant wars. I am trying to compile facts about how many medals were given out during Vietnam as compared to WW2, but the moment I type in medal and vietnam in any search engine, I end up with 50+ pages of Republican propoganda on Kerry. It may take a while.

Thus making it so repulsive that reports are out insinuating that he did ask for some of his medals.

[Acies]

Rumor Midnyte, for it to be a fact then his CO or whomever put him up for the medals needs to be interviewed.

Of course if he did ask for them, well, then I would say I would still vote for him, being willing to serve over a coward who will send others to die fighting for his personal beliefs.

[Toshira]

Thus making it so repulsive that reports are out insinuating that he did ask for some of his medals.

"reports" are also out that Jesus was a closet Muslim.

Question for all who think Kerry over-hyped his war record:

Do you think if he hadn't made it an issue, the GOP would have left it all alone?

[Arborealus]

Ya know now that I think about it...wtf...Using taxpayer money to investigate something that has zero function other than serving Bush's political ambitions by maintaining innuendo...

Why would the pentagon autonomously open this investigation 34 years after the fact except at the nudging of the administration...Will they be investigating the awards of all medals issued during Vietnam systematically?...

Using military budget in a time of war to serve an individual's political ambitions, especially given that that individual has deprived those serving of their $75 per month combat pay, is offensive in the extreme...I would wager any such investigation will cost far in excess of the amount necessary to pay those potentially dying in our name that extra $75 a month

How much more offensive can you possibly get...

[Winnow]

If there's nothing to hide, Kerry should be elated it's being investigated so he can put it behind him.

[Arborealus]

If there's nothing to hide, Kerry should be elated it's being investigated so he can put it behind him.

I'm sure he will be at the results...however the means are remniscient of oh say using the CIA tp spy on your opponent...

[Winnow]

If there's nothing to hide, Kerry should be elated it's being investigated so he can put it behind him.

I'm sure he will be at the results...however the means are remniscient of oh say using the CIA tp spy on your opponent...

It was at the request of a bi-partisan affiliation.

I don't see why people are upset. It's not going to cost the government much unless everything checks out with Kerry...then it will cost a bit to pay someone off : )

Are you concerned that the Pentagon would be biased due to Kerry calling them baby killers or something?

[Arborealus]

If there's nothing to hide, Kerry should be elated it's being investigated so he can put it behind him.

I'm sure he will be at the results...however the means are remniscient of oh say using the CIA tp spy on your opponent...

It was at the request of a bi-partisan affiliation.

I don't see why people are upset. It's not going to cost the government much unless everything checks out with Kerry...then it will cost a bit to pay someone off : )

Are you concerned that the Pentagon would be biased due to Kerry calling them baby killers or something?

Dude the pentagon cannot initiate a bowel movement for under a million dollars...thats quite a few flak jackets...or say a months combat pay for all those getting shot at in our name...

[Toshira]

If there's nothing to hide, Kerry should be elated it's being investigated so he can put it behind him.

I'm sure he will be at the results...however the means are remniscient of oh say using the CIA tp spy on your opponent...

It was at the request of a bi-partisan affiliation.

I don't see why people are upset. It's not going to cost the government much unless everything checks out with Kerry...then it will cost a bit to pay someone off : )

Are you concerned that the Pentagon would be biased due to Kerry calling them baby killers or something?

They did kill babies. Not all soldiers, no. Some, yes.
Bi-partisan or not, your cuteness is sickening, Winnow. The timing is disgusting. But hey, if that's what it takes for the Reps to win - sure as shit wouldn't want to focus on anything substantial.

[Kelshara]

So can we have an investigation into Bush and his AWOLness?

[Acies]

So can we have an investigation into Bush and his AWOLness?

Of course not! He is a patriot and our commander-in-chief, and must be supported fully! He has no scandalous background! Traitor! /sarcasm off

[Thess]

Why when it's fact he went AWOL and is lying about being transfered to the Alabama national guard. He is also in pictures wearing medals he never earned - but no investigation needed.

[Drasta]

ew he's still ugly when he's young

[Winnow]

They did kill babies. Not all soldiers, no. Some, yes.
Bi-partisan or not, your cuteness is sickening, Winnow. The timing is disgusting. But hey, if that's what it takes for the Reps to win - sure as shit wouldn't want to focus on anything substantial.

Don't blame me for the Democrats lack of skill in winning an election. I could care less about Kerry and his record but since the topic won't go away it's worth a word from time to time.

That's the problem with democrats and liberals in general. They don't get how it works. Whichever candidate you really want in the White House can't do shit unless they get elected. You can sit here and cry all day about how the issues aren't being addressed, how you perceive Bush to be sucking at this or that but that's not going to help anything. Get yourself a puppet democrat candidate that's electable with the real power working in the shadows with their own actual agenda and get that puppet into office.

Naivety is no excuse. Democrats and the liberal portion of the american population should have figured this out by now.

This should go without saying, but of course I'm not a die hard Bush fan. I do prefer him over Kerry however for this election and will take a fresh look at everything again in four years.

As for hating my "cuteness" while discussing the candidates, it's very clear that the majority of posters on this board despise Bush and are so caught up in hating Bush it's disgusting. The rationale I see from people is "anyone but Bush". That's not good enough for me. I am wholeheartedly not impressed with John Kerry. I don't hate him. I think he's a non factor just like Dukakis was. There are democrats out there that I would vote for. Maybe in 2008.

-----------------

Give him a beard in this picture and he looks kind of like cowbell guy.



I'll help you laugh at George if it makes you feel better.

[Aruman]

Why when it's fact he went AWOL and is lying about being transfered to the Alabama national guard. He is also in pictures wearing medals he never earned - but no investigation needed.

Tell me what medals he is wearing, then tell me what the difference between a medal and a service ribbon is.

Oops!

[Arborealus]

Why when it's fact he went AWOL and is lying about being transfered to the Alabama national guard. He is also in pictures wearing medals he never earned - but no investigation needed.

Tell me what medals he is wearing, then tell me what the difference between a medal and a service ribbon is.

Oops!

OUA the one on the left (left of the photo) is the ribbon in question...he was never in a unit at the time one was awarded (No record of it in his records eh?). In the army not an issue as he could wear it while assigned to the unit (temp wear) if the unit had been awarded it prior. In the Air Force he should only wear it if he was in the unit at the time of award.

Funny his military record didn't reflect an OUA...Kerrys however did...

http://www.americanwarlibrary.com/replacement/afoua.htm has a nice run down of requirements for wearing an OUA in the Air Force...heh

Now you wanna review for the folks what the UCMJ says the punishment for displaying an unearned ribbon or medal is?...

How do military folks feel about that?...Recall Admiral Brodda's reaction when he was called on it?...I believe he shot himself in disgrace?

Oops indeed...

*mwah* have a nice day...

edit: specified which left to avoid confusion...

[Arborealus]

Oh and just in case someone questions the authenticity of the photo...

http://bushlibrary.tamu.edu/photos/phot ... =HS502.jpg might wanna check it in the bush library while it's still up......I imagine they will pull it very shortly and rewrite some more history...

[Xyun]

You are correct. You're not supposed to ask for a medal. It's ok to keep reminding your CO about it though until it is requested I suppose.

As for your comments about purple hearts and the requirements remaining the same. The requirements are the same. The requests for them and distribution of them can change without the requirements changing.

This is pure speculation and heresy. Just because you are an attention-whoring, loot-whoring, cyberdick-whoring, whore of a whore doesn't mean everyone else is the same as you winnow. Some people earn the respect they recieve honorably, something I have never seen you do. Now as you sit there and criticize a man solely on pure speculation, your holier-than-thou president has our soldiers being shot at and blown up in a foreign country, so that maybe in 3 or 4 decades you can sit in the same fucking chair and declare that the medals these boys recieved are also invalid.

Tainting someone else's reputation because yours is not good enough to stand on it's own is your idea of good politics? No surprise that's coming from you, afterall, you were the biggest loud mouth trouble starting undedicated unprofessional piece of shit I ever had the displeasure of being guilded with. While you may think you have a golden dick and sit on a high horse, the reality is that it's penis envy from a naive moron riding a my little pony. Sometimes when you stir the shit pot it splatters on you but hey, you don't give a fuck so long as your Bullshit causes enough drama to give TNT a run for it's money. Keep on talkin tho, because with every word you bring more dis-fucking-grace to your name you fucking leper.

[Aruman]

Why when it's fact he went AWOL and is lying about being transfered to the Alabama national guard. He is also in pictures wearing medals he never earned - but no investigation needed.

Tell me what medals he is wearing, then tell me what the difference between a medal and a service ribbon is.

Oops!

OUA the one on the left (left of the photo) is the ribbon in question...he was never in a unit at the time one was awarded (No record of it in his records eh?). In the army not an issue as he could wear it while assigned to the unit (temp wear) if the unit had been awarded it prior. In the Air Force he should only wear it if he was in the unit at the time of award.

Funny his military record didn't reflect an OUA...Kerrys however did...

http://www.americanwarlibrary.com/replacement/afoua.htm has a nice run down of requirements for wearing an OUA in the Air Force...heh

Now you wanna review for the folks what the UCMJ says the punishment for displaying an unearned ribbon or medal is?...

How do military folks feel about that?...Recall Admiral Brodda's reaction when he was called on it?...I believe he shot himself in disgrace?

Oops indeed...

*mwah* have a nice day...

edit: specified which left to avoid confusion...

Sorry to burst your happy bubble:

Unit awards are authorized to be worn by members who are currently assigned to the unit. This is true even for those who were not assigned to the unit at the time of the award.

This is true both of the Army and the Air Force.

I was assigned to several units that had numerous unit awards. I was authorized and required to wear these on my Class A or Dress uniforms. I had not been awarded any of these awards individually, which meant I removed them when assigned to a different unit.

I am sure others have had first hand experience with this.

Issue is being discussed here(among other places):

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1207578/posts

Selected Quotes:

'Individual entitlement' means that the person can continue to wear the award after departing from the unit.
Anyone attached to a unit is entitled (actually required) to wear the unit's awards for the time that they are attached to it. (This applies whether the person was present when it was awarded or not.)

5 posted on 09/04/2004 4:39:34 PM PDT by Bob

I was active in my AF unit during the period for which one of its AFOUAs was awarded. I am authorized to wear it permanently. Others are authorized to wear the unit's AFOUA only while they are assigned to active duty (not merely TDY) with the unit.

6 posted on 09/04/2004 4:41:41 PM PDT by TXnMA

Under the older AFR Awards & Decorations, a AF member could wear the AF Oustanding Unit Award while a current member of that unit. Even when he/she was not a member at the time AFOUA was awarded to the unit.

8 posted on 09/04/2004 4:46:52 PM PDT by demlosers

Next?

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Excellent infoz Aruman.

[Kelshara]

Oh well, if you Republicans want to support a President with 2 DUIs and who went AWOL after getting put into National Guard specifically to avoid Vietnam.. and a vice president with 2 DUIs who gave out the name of a CIA undercover agent and is in the pocket of Haliburton.. then I guess that says a lot about you heh.

[Cartalas]

Oh well, if you Republicans want to support a President with 2 DUIs and who went AWOL after getting put into National Guard specifically to avoid Vietnam.. and a vice president with 2 DUIs who gave out the name of a CIA undercover agent and is in the pocket of Haliburton.. then I guess that says a lot about you heh.

Straws where are my straws!!!

[Siji]

Oh well, if you Republicans want to support a President with 2 DUIs and who went AWOL after getting put into National Guard specifically to avoid Vietnam.. and a vice president with 2 DUIs who gave out the name of a CIA undercover agent and is in the pocket of Haliburton.. then I guess that says a lot about you heh.

Don't forget the law that was broken since they're both from Texas, and if I recall, it's against the law for a presidential candidate and vice presidential candidate to originate from the state. Oops.

[masteen]

Cheney is from montana or iowa or some similar backwater.

[Winnow]

Xyun, thanks for taking time off your busy schedule of drugs and amateur poker to give us your opinions! Let me know when we might be able to spot you in the background crowd at a poker tournament on ESPN. I wouldn't want to miss the crowning moment of your life.

[Voronwë]

Cheney is from montana or iowa or some similar backwater.

Wyoming.

[Aruman]

Oh well, if you Republicans want to support a President with 2 DUIs and who went AWOL after getting put into National Guard specifically to avoid Vietnam.. and a vice president with 2 DUIs who gave out the name of a CIA undercover agent and is in the pocket of Haliburton.. then I guess that says a lot about you heh.

I'm not going to get into the morality of presidents before they were in office... many have had problems before they were president and while they were president. Of course the most famous IMO was someone who was in office not too long ago.

I'd be more infuenced by this kind of thing if it occurred while he was in office.

As far as avoiding Vietnam... At least he joined the National Guard.

What do you have to say about people who went to college just to avoid Vietnam? Bush happens to be a political figure so people are just trying everything they can to cry foul.

There are businesses that benefitted from Kerry's political affiliations also, so the usual pot/kettle argument here.

Outing a CIA member? All rhetoric and yet to be proven. Let's stick to fact's, not hearsay.

As far as AWOL... interesting article I saw in the paper today:

Excerpts from

Reports missing in Bush's Air National Guard file
By Matt Kelley
The Associated Press

...Air National Guard regulations at the time required commanders to write an investigative report for the Air Force when Bush missed his annual medical exam in 1972. The regulations also required commanders to confirm in writing that Bush received counseling after missing five months of drills.

No such records have been made public, and the government told The Associated Press in response to the Freedom of Information Act lawsuit that it has released all records it can find.

Outside experts suggest National Guard commanders may not have produced documentation required.

So when Bush missed the medical exam his superiors may not have done what they were required to do.

AP lawyer David Schultz
Written to the Justice Department Aug. 26

Each of these actions by any member of the National Guard should have generated the creation of many documents that have yet to be produced,

Another point of interest:

The AP talked to experts unaffiliated with either campaign who have reviewed Bush's files. They said it was not unusual for guard commanders to ignore deficiencies by junior officers such as Bush. But they said missing a physical exam, which caused him to be grounded, was not common.

If missing a physical exam was not common, then Bush's superior's were deficient in their responsibilities to document it.

Bush does have gaps in his service record starting in 1972 that should have been explained, and this might be the reason why the gaps occurred:

One explanation by Bush:

He left Texas in 1972 to to work on the unsuccessful Senate campaign in Alabama of family friend Winton Blount.

So to summarize:

Apparently there were 5 categories of records that should have been generated, but apparently were not:

A report from the Texas Air National Guard to Bush's local draft board stating that Bush remained in good standing. The government has released those DD Form 44 documents for Bush for 1971 and earlier years but not for 1972 and 1973.

Records of a required investigation into why Bush lost flight status. Bush's spokesmen have said he skipped a 1972 physical because he knew he would be doing desk duty in Alabama.

A written acknowledgment from Bush that he had received the orders grounding him. His Texas commanders were ordered to have Bush sign such a document.

Reports of formal counseling sessions Bush was required to to have after missing more than three training sessions. He missed at least five months' worth of National Guard training in 1972.

A signed statement from Bush acknowledging he could be called to active duty if he did not promptly transfer to another unit after leaving Texas. The statement was required as part of a Vietnam-era crackdown on no-show guardsman. Bush was approved in September 1972 to train with the Alabama unit, more than four months after he left Texas.

Sure, Bush has gaps, which may be explained by his 1972 political affiliations/efforts.

Was he AWOL? I don't think this can be construed as AWOL. I do think Bush should have been more pro-active in arranging his transfer requirements though.

Again, not particular as to who gets elected, but at least be fair about the whole thing.

Don't knock Kerry for his service, and don't knock Bush for his.