Russian School Situation

[Wulfran]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/09 ... index.html

Looks like its over. Wonder if we'll ever know the real numbers involved. Some media were claiming that Russian officials were downplaying the number of hostages and if thats the case they're sure to downplay the number of dead as well.

Just a sad situation.

Edit: pissed off comment... wtf is with CNN? Slick Willy's heart surgery is more important news than this story? I mean seriously, I feel bad for his family but he's just a retired politician (and yes I felt the same way about Reagan and his vastly over-covered funeral).

[Dregor Thule]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/09 ... index.html

Looks like its over. Wonder if we'll ever know the real numbers involved. Some media were claiming that Russian officials were downplaying the number of hostages and if thats the case they're sure to downplay the number of dead as well.

Just a sad situation.

Edit: pissed off comment... wtf is with CNN? Slick Willy's heart surgery is more important news than this story? I mean seriously, I feel bad for his family but he's just a retired politician (and yes I felt the same way about Reagan and his vastly over-covered funeral).

Anything involving America = greater priority than the rest of the world. Just start watching the news?

[Cartalas]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/09 ... index.html

Looks like its over. Wonder if we'll ever know the real numbers involved. Some media were claiming that Russian officials were downplaying the number of hostages and if thats the case they're sure to downplay the number of dead as well.

Just a sad situation.

Edit: pissed off comment... wtf is with CNN? Slick Willy's heart surgery is more important news than this story? I mean seriously, I feel bad for his family but he's just a retired politician (and yes I felt the same way about Reagan and his vastly over-covered funeral).

Liberal Media site. The Russians didnt use diplomatic procedures and wait for UN approval to get the hostages out. That is why it is not on the cover.

[Kelshara]

Interesting to read a bit about this.. seems like the soldiers went in without a GO order, which is what created so much of the mess and confusion. The theory is that when some hostages tried to escape, the terrorists fired at them. The soldiers returned fire, and since the terrorists had sworn to kill 50 children for each of them who died, they felt like they had to go in for that not to happen.

Pretty messy situation overall.

[Winnow]

This looks worse than the last big russian hostage crisis in the movie theater: (from CNN)

A local official from Russia's FSB intelligence service told Russian media the troops had been ready for a long siege.

However, the forces stormed the building around midday after Russian officials, under a cease-fire agreement with militants, tried to collect bodies lying outside the building.

There was an explosion, hostages fled, and hostage-takers opened fire on the children and rescue workers. One of the workers was killed and another was wounded.

Russian troops then opened fire at the rebels, and the battle began.

Several hours later the scene remained in chaos, with pockets of resistance remaining and machine-gun fire heard on the scene and troops going room-by-room as the wounded were being taken out of the building.

It is thought that the people in the gym might have died when explosives triggered the collapse of the roof and a fire.

Russian forces blasted holes in a building of the school to create exit points. A Russian soldier was hit by a bullet, and a news cameraman was hit.

The explosions heard at the scene could have resulted from mines and booby-traps planted near the school by militants, one report said.


Officials said the hostage-takers had been holding more than 350 children, parents and teachers. Relatives said the number was much higher -- about 1,000.

Children who survived said they were denied food and water and had to take off their clothes because of heat. Some boys said that because they lacked liquids, they had to drink their own urine.

Many fatalities have been reported. Around 100 people have been seen dead in the school gym by journalists.

There also was a report that 23 bodies, including 17 children, were outside a hospital morgue and 10 more bodies were inside. One news report said the death toll could exceed 150.

Near the scene, news footage showed dead bodies of children on stretchers.

[Kelshara]

Russians claimed a female suicide bomber was the cause of the chaos that erupted. Interviews with hostages seem to point towards a bomb that was taped to the wall falling down and exploding.

[Metanis]

Is there any oppression that justifies making war on children?

[noel]

Is there any oppression that justifies making war on children?

Of course not.

[Lohrno]

Is there any oppression that justifies making war on children?

Never. Terrorism is a dishonorable way of fighting no matter who is doing it.

-=Lohrno

[Kelshara]

Nope. Shame both the Russians and Chechnians fall down to the level of hurting civilians and children. Remains to be seen wether this was done by the renegade Chechnian rebel Sjamil Basajev (who has dubious links to groups outside of Chechnya) who was behind the theater attack or if it was the real Chechnian leadership who has taken a public stand against him.

Small note to those not aware: The war between Chechnya and Russia has gone on for almost 300 years. This last part of it has gone on for 10 years. And it has been extremely ugly from both sides. Stalin killed about 1/4th of all Chechnians. During the last 10 years around 20 000 Chechnians and 4500 Russians have been killed.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Very awful thing. I can't believe they would do this to children.

[Kelshara]

On a side note, just read something interesting: Acording to a book written by a former FSB (the Russian Federal Security Service) agent, FSB was behind a couple of explosions in Moskva that killed 34 people in September 1999. They then blamed the Chechnyan rebels. This sounds pretty crazy and I haven't read the book myself but it wouldn't be the first time Russians have done strange things.

[Kylere]

I applaud them for not negotiating with terrorists, but I lament the loss of life.

[Metanis]

Hostages described three days of sweltering heat in the crowded gym with little food and less water. Many said they had drunk urine from their own shoes and chewed the leaves of school plants to relieve their thirst.

One boy, 10-year-old Stanislav Tsarakhov, said another boy was so thirsty he approached one of the hostage-takers who was holding an assault rifle with a bayonet attached.

"The boy went to him and asked for a little water, and instead of giving him water, he drove his bayonet through the boy's body," Tsarakhov said. "I don't know if he died."

[Drolgin Steingrinder]

Hearing the stories of the hostages reminds me in the most horrible ways of hearing the stories of my grandfather and his internment in Buchenwald and Neuengamme during WW2. It's beyond comprehension that human beings will treat other human beings this way, regardless of circumstance.

[Cartalas]

My prayers go out to the parents of the childern, And this firms up my stance on the war against terrorism.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

My prayers go out to the parents of the childern, And this firms up my stance on the war against terrorism.

Aye. It sure does reaffirm the need to continue to fight this war against these terrorist animals, no matter what religious affiliation they might have.

[Kelshara]

10 of them were most likely hired mercenaries. Amazing what money can make some people do..

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

10 of them were most likely hired mercenaries. Amazing what money can make some people do..

Money only works on people who are capable of this in the first place. No amount of money could entice me to kill someone.

[Brotha]

I heard Halliburton made the suicide bomb belts...fucking Halliburton.

[Sueven]

Real tasteful of you assholes to politicize a thread that had thus far elicited only comments of sympathy.

My thoughts also go out to those killed in Russia.

[Toshira]

10 of them were most likely hired mercenaries. Amazing what money can make some people do..

Money only works on people who are capable of this in the first place. No amount of money could entice me to kill someone.

Really? If someone was a gun to your family and was going to kill them unless you killed them first - and I paid you 1 billion to kill them, you wouldn't do it, hrmm?

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

10 of them were most likely hired mercenaries. Amazing what money can make some people do..

Money only works on people who are capable of this in the first place. No amount of money could entice me to kill someone.

Really? If someone was a gun to your family and was going to kill them unless you killed them first - and I paid you 1 billion to kill them, you wouldn't do it, hrmm?

Quite a big leap, don't you think? You've been making a lot of sense lately, until this post.