Those peaceful Muslims are at it again...

[Cartalas]

Whats Funny is Mid is not talking about history is he talking about NOW!!!!

[Sylvus]

Man, this is like a fucking Abbot and Costello skit.

[Kelshara]

Well right now around 10 000 muslims were killed by a Christian.

Hi Iraq.

[miir]

Well right now around 10 000 muslims were killed by a Christian.

Hi Iraq.

Dude are you deaf, he said NOW!!!!
Iraq was declared 'Mission Accomplished' like a year ago!!!

[archeiron]

Ok, I will bite. Here is five minute's work.

Major Historical Events:

First Crusade: 1095-1101
Second Crusade: 1145-1147
Third Crusade: 1188-1192
Fourth Crusade: 1204
Fifth Crusade: 1217
Six Crusade: 1228-29
Seventh Crusade: 1249-1252
Eighth Crusade: 1270
Spanish Inquisition: 1478-1834

16th & 17th century witch hunts in Europe/America (mostly famously 1692 Salem with only 19 deaths, a drop in the bucket for these centuries.)




Less Famous Events:

1348: All Jews of Basel/Switzerland and Strasbourg/France (two thousand) burned.
1349: In more than 350 towns in Germany all Jews murdered, mostly burned alive
1648: Chmielnitzki massacres: In Poland about 200,000 Jews were slain.



This doesn't even begin to cover the ethnic cleansing in Europe through the last 500 years, nor does it touch the murders in South America and Africa in an effort to convert those continents.

It doesn't touch on the wars spawned by internal religious conflicts within Christdom started specifically for religious reasons.

It doesn't cover the Protestant/Catholic tension between England/Scotland and Ireland.

[Arborealus]

Calling Hitler a Catholic is really no worse than calling extremists today Muslims or Christian or whatever they might claim to follow.

nah but it is misleading sort of...born catholic might be a better way to put it and his shit was based on bigotry/nationalism...i wouldn't stick that on the christians...though i dont think anyone enumerated the "christianization" of japan and nort/south american natives ie join or die (mostly just die)...nor the persecution of the hugenots (christian on christian there just killing because of technicalities basically)

I'm wondering though thinking about it how many were killed in the sikh/hindu/budhist conflicts in the indian subcontinent through the years...one of those groups might have outpaced the christians by a nose...i would still wager christians but it might swing simply owing to conflicts in Bangladesh it the 70's?...Anyone know any rough numbers there?...

[Metanis]

Throughout history more people have been killed by Christianity. No doubt about it.

Would you please cite one or two even reasonable sources for this assertion?

Just a quick search using google showed me that communisim may be responsible for 100 million deaths in the last century alone.

I'm not trying to argue that Christianity has clean hands, we don't, but I would refute your contention that we are the worst.

[miir]

Just a quick search using google showed me that communisim may be responsible for 100 million deaths in the last century alone

Um wtf?
Last time I checked, communism is not a religion.

[Cartalas]

Man, this is like a fucking Abbot and Costello skit.

Are you Abbot or Costello?

[Kelshara]

Read this thread, plenty of quotes given here. Although, are you trying to claim Communism is a religion?

[Cartalas]

Well right now around 10 000 muslims were killed by a Christian.

Hi Iraq.

Whoah big fella this is not a Religious war!!! And to be honest not all military personal are Christians,


Try again

[miir]

Man, this is like a fucking Abbot and Costello skit.

Are you Abbot or Costello?

OMGLOL HES TEH FAT ONE DUDE!!!!
ROOOFLESHHAHAHA YOUR SO FUNNY!!!









Can you just fucking crawl back into your hole please.

[Cartalas]

Read this thread, plenty of quotes given here. Although, are you trying to claim Communism is a religion?

Just like you are trying to Claim Democracy is.

[Kelshara]

Whoah big fella this is not a Religious war!!! And to be honest not all military personal are Christians,

You claim the Chechnyan war is religion based yet you claim Iraq isn't? When your leader claims he does God's work, gets direct guidance from God?

Just like you are trying to Claim Democracy is.

Are you retarded? No scratch that, I know the answer. However, show me ONE time I have claimed democracy is a religion?

[miir]

Right now I'm having a difficult time believing that Cartalas is not mentally handicapped.

[Cartalas]

Whoah big fella this is not a Religious war!!! And to be honest not all military personal are Christians,

You claim the Chechnyan war is religion based yet you claim Iraq isn't? When your leader claims he does God's work, gets direct guidance from God?

Just like you are trying to Claim Democracy is.

Are you retarded? No scratch that, I know the answer. However, show me ONE time I have claimed democracy is a religion?

by saying the Iraq war is a religous war you did.

[Kelshara]

Not at all. I am saying your glorioud leader is a religious nutcase who uses his religion as a crutch to kill muslims.

[Metanis]

Not at all. I am saying your glorioud leader is a religious nutcase who uses his religion as a crutch to kill muslims.

You are losing it aren't you?

Keep up the good work Cartalas, you are doing great work exposing how these idiots are nothing more than bigots and racists. This one is delusional too.

[Cartalas]

Just a Few conflicts involving them peace loving muslims.

Afghanistan:
Osama bin Laden heads a terrorist group called Al Quada (The Source) whose headquarters were in Afghanistan. They were protected by, and integrated with, the Taliban dictatorship in the country. Al Quada is generally regarded as having committed many terrorist attacks on U.S. ships, embassies, and buildings. Their goal is to promote a worldwide war between Muslims and non-Muslims. The Northern Alliance of rebel Afghans, Britain and the U.S. attacked the Taliban and Al Quada, establishing a new regime in the country


East Timor:

A Roman Catholic country. About 20% of the population died by murder, starvation or disease after they were forcibly annexed by Indonesia (mainly Muslim). After voting for independence, many Christians were exterminated or exiled by the Indonesian army and army-funded militias in a carefully planned program of genocide and religious cleansing. The situation is now stable.


India:

Various conflicts that heat up periodically. In late 2002-FEB, a Muslim-Hindu conflict broke out, killing an average of 100 people a day over the first five days.


Indonesia, province of Halmahera:

30 people killed. 2,000 Christians driven out; homes and churches destroyed.

Kashmir:

chronically unstable region of the world, claimed by both Pakistan and India. The availability of nuclear weapons and the eagerness to use them are destabilizing the region further. More details Thirty to sixty thousand people have died since 1989.

Kurdistan:

Assaults on Christians (Protestant, Chaldean Catholic, & Assyrian Orthodox). Bombing campaign underway.

Macedonia:

Muslims (often referred to as ethnic Albanians) engaged in a civil war with the rest of the country who are primarily Macedonian Orthodox Christians. A peace treaty has been signed. Disarmament by NATO is complete.

Nigeria:

Yourubas and Christians in the south of the country are battling Muslims in the north. Country is struggling towards democracy after decades of Muslim military dictatorships.

Pakistan:

Suni & Shi'ite Muslims Low level mutual attacks.

Russia,
Chechnya:

The Russian army attacked the breakaway region. Muslims had allegedly blown up buildings in Moscow. Many atrocities have been alleged.

Sudan:

Complex ethnic, racial, religious conflict which victimizes both Animists and Christians in the South of the country. Slavery and near slavery practiced. There are allegations of crucifixion of Christians.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

This can't be Cart. Muslims only fight back. They never start anything. They are the uberest group of religion people like ever!

[archeiron]

What is your point, Cartalas?

Oh yes, you haven't got one.

[archeiron]

This can't be Cart. Muslims only fight back. They never start anything. They are the uberest group of religion people like ever!

You muppet. You are putting words in peoples' mouthes. No one said Islam is teh best; the comments have been that all (western) religions are guilty of the crimes you seem to think are unique to Islam.

Furthermore, you are lumping all Muslims into one barrel that is offensive and bigotted.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

This can't be Cart. Muslims only fight back. They never start anything. They are the uberest group of religion people like ever!

You muppet. You are putting words in peoples' mouthes. No one said Islam is teh best; the comments have been that all (western) religions are guilty of the crimes you seem to think are unique to Islam.

Furthermore, you are lumping all Muslims into one barrel that is offensive and bigotted.

WRONG! I have a problem with the tone of their teachings. I've said numerous times, but some of you just can't look at it without labeling.

[Kelshara]

New homepage for you Midnyte.. although I guess it probably is it already:

http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/index.html

[miir]

WRONG! I have a problem with the tone of their teachings. I've said numerous times, but some of you just can't look at it without labeling.

Translation: I found at a few passages from the quaran that when taken out of context seem to promote hate and violence.


Midnyte, you know nothing of the teachings of Islam.
I have many, many muslim friends and have spoken with them candidly about their religion and the prejudiced stereotypes that are associated with it.
The 'quotes' you use to back up your arguments are completely taken out of context... but on the other hand, it's easy to understand how a nutjob, violent fundamentalist could also take those passages out of context and use them as a basis to justify their own personal agenda.

Keeping that in mind, it is just as easy to take select passages from your bible and use them justify a fundamentalist agenda. Proof of this is in the inquisitions and the crusades.



Both Chrisitanity and Islam have their fundamentalist nutjobs.
Neither religion's hands are clean when it comes to using thier holy texts as a basis for violence.

[Metanis]

Just a quick search using google showed me that communisim may be responsible for 100 million deaths in the last century alone

Um wtf?
Last time I checked, communism is not a religion.

The original statement...

Throughout history more people have been killed by Christianity. No doubt about it.

...calls out for some perspective.

To it's adherents, communism took the place of religion. But, I'll grant you that communism is not a religion in the "god-fearing" tradition. It's not my fault that Kelshara didn't qualify the meaning of her statement. In the meantime 100 Million bodies attributed to communism in just the last century may provide some context. Mao's Great Society purge may have killed more people than all the wars in history related to Christianity!

Perhaps the Princess will be so kind as to qualify her contention so that it might be properly rebutted? Is she comparing only Christianity and Islam? Or Hinduism? Or Buddism? Or Incan Sun Worship? I don't recall numbers but some of the central and south american indian tribes were pretty bloodthirsty. They had some 12,000 years virtually unrecorded in any history book to rack up the body count.

So, let me rephrase my question...

Throughout history more people have been killed by Christianity. Than what?

Viruses, old age, natural causes, wild animals, liberal brain explosions?

[miir]

This thread has been about organized religion.
Have you not been paying attention?

[Cartalas]

WRONG! I have a problem with the tone of their teachings. I've said numerous times, but some of you just can't look at it without labeling.

Translation: I found at a few passages from the quaran that when taken out of context seem to promote hate and violence.


Midnyte, you know nothing of the teachings of Islam.
I have many, many muslim friends and have spoken with them candidly about their religion and the prejudiced stereotypes that are associated with it.
The 'quotes' you use to back up your arguments are completely taken out of context... but on the other hand, it's easy to understand how a nutjob, violent fundamentalist could also take those passages out of context and use them as a basis to justify their own personal agenda.

Keeping that in mind, it is just as easy to take select passages from your bible and use them justify a fundamentalist agenda. Proof of this is in the inquisitions and the crusades.



Both Chrisitanity and Islam have their fundamentalist nutjobs.
Neither religion's hands are clean when it comes to using thier holy texts as a basis for violence.

The problem is Miir that the Muslim nutcases are using the quaran to justify there little terror war. Just as some christian nutcases use the bible.

You see your to quick to jump on the " OMG your a bigot bandwagon to see it"


Mid never said christians did not kill people, he made a blanket statement about muslims and hey lets be honest right now muslims are the instigators of the problims.

[miir]

The problem is Miir that the Muslim nutcases are using the quaran to justify there little terror war. Just as some christian nutcases use the bible.

That's what we have been saying all along you stupid fucking retard.

[Cartalas]

The problem is Miir that the Muslim nutcases are using the quaran to justify there little terror war. Just as some christian nutcases use the bible.

That's what we have been saying all along you stupid fucking retard.

Bullshit you fucking pillow biter, You cam right out along with your sideline sallys and attacked Christianity. that wasnt the argument the argument was about Muslims and are they peaceful.

[Sylvos]

Hitler was Not a Catholic.
He burned Catholics too just like Jews.
Kinda puts your entire theory to shit doesn't it.

[miir]

Hitler was born and raised a Catholic.


While he denounced Catholicism and Christianity, claiming to be a pagan or an athiest, he also made statements that would indicate the opposite.

For this, to be sure, from the child's primer down to the last newspaper, every theater and every movie house, every advertising pillar and every billboard, must be pressed into the service of this one great mission, until the timorous prayer of our present parlor patriots: ‘Lord, make us free!’ is transformed in the brain of the smallest boy into the burning plea: ‘Almighty God, bless our arms when the time comes; be just as thou hast always been; judge now whether we be deserving of freedom; Lord, bless our battle!


“I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.”


“The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfill God's will, and not let God's word be desecrated. For God's will gave men their form, their essence and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will.”


“Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.”


“May God Almighty give our work His blessing, strengthen our purpose, and endow us with wisdom and the trust of our people, for we are fighting not for ourselves but for Germany.”

I could quote endless references Hitler made about the 'lord' and 'creator' but I think I have made my point.

[Sueven]

I don't recall numbers but some of the central and south american indian tribes were pretty bloodthirsty. They had some 12,000 years virtually unrecorded in any history book to rack up the body count.

Until the Christians came and slaughtered them all. Good fucking argument.

[Metanis]

...and hey lets be honest right now...

This is the crux of the problem with the pussy liberals Cartalas, they've been lying to themselves and each other for so long they think their Ted Rall world view is the TRUTH.

I think one of the most compelling aspects of their whole sorry existence is their inability to admit failure and take blame for their actions. Every conservative poster on this board has stood up and admitted various flaws and inaccuracies. You and I both have eaten a bit of crow here at times.

But these pussy liberals know the whole house of cards of lies will come tumbling down if they acknowledge a single chink in their armor.

In order for their world view to remain intact they are forced to defend the current bloody and senseless Islamic terror and contend it's justified on the basis of millenia of Christian misdeeds. They get erections browbeating Christians in the name of Islam when they are truly aethists and think themselves as highly clever.

I'm glad the current presidential election will act as a referendum on these clowns and their so-called belief system.

[Metanis]

I don't recall numbers but some of the central and south american indian tribes were pretty bloodthirsty. They had some 12,000 years virtually unrecorded in any history book to rack up the body count.

Until the Christians came and slaughtered them all. Good fucking argument.

Try reading some history before shitting all over yourself. Or are you going to blame Christians for the small pox epidemics?

[Cartalas]

I don't recall numbers but some of the central and south american indian tribes were pretty bloodthirsty. They had some 12,000 years virtually unrecorded in any history book to rack up the body count.

Until the Christians came and slaughtered them all. Good fucking argument.

Try reading some history before shitting all over yourself. Or are you going to blame Christians for the small pox epidemics?

I blame the blacks for The African Killer Bees.

[Sylvos]

Renouncing Catholicism = not Catholic
oh and playing to the masses = politician speech.

Like Bush does to the christians in America. He plays the religion ticket and guess what..it garners votes. For all we know he could worship Zod the Kitchen God.

[Kelshara]

Well most diseases DID come with Christians from Europe But I wouldn't count them really.

And this thread has been about organized religion from post #1. If you start bringing political beliefs into it, then Communism will be on top. Although Hitlre was elected in a democracy as well, so that might top it out.

Now personally, as I have stated, I don't think radical Muslims nor radical Christians represent their religions. That is where Midnyte and I disagree. He throws a general comment at all Muslims.

[Sylvus]

I don't recall numbers but some of the central and south american indian tribes were pretty bloodthirsty. They had some 12,000 years virtually unrecorded in any history book to rack up the body count.

Until the Christians came and slaughtered them all. Good fucking argument.

Try reading some history before shitting all over yourself. Or are you going to blame Christians for the small pox epidemics?

I blame the blacks for The African Killer Bees.

...

[Winnow]

I blame the blacks for The African Killer Bees.

lol

I could see a skit on Saturday Night Live using that.

[Arborealus]

I don't recall numbers but some of the central and south american indian tribes were pretty bloodthirsty. They had some 12,000 years virtually unrecorded in any history book to rack up the body count.

Until the Christians came and slaughtered them all. Good fucking argument.

Try reading some history before shitting all over yourself. Or are you going to blame Christians for the small pox epidemics?

Last I checked Tenochtilan and the Peruvian Incas died with severed limbs and bullets lodges in various bones...didn't realize small pox was pack that much heat......Back to school danke

And for reference the bloodthirsty tribes headhunters etc were largely post spanish and largely only killed humans very rarely and at least they ate what they killed......though the aztecs did certainly do a small amount of human sacrifice...but there just werent enough folk in the americas during this period to equal errrm lets say one largish crusade oh excepet aztec at tenochtilan but oops that was cortez...

[krin]

Until the Christians came and slaughtered them all. Good fucking argument

Using that kind of logic you could say that islam itself was responsable for the crusades.

[Cartalas]

Until the Christians came and slaughtered them all. Good fucking argument

Using that kind of logic you could say that islam itself was responsable for the crusades.

they werent?

[Sylvus]

Bullshit you fucking pillow biter, You cam right out along with your sideline sallys and attacked Christianity. that wasnt the argument the argument was about Muslims and are they peaceful.

Okay, I'm sure I'm just wasting my time, but what the hell, it's Friday. Here is a little recap of how this thread has progressed since you're so detached from reality.

"Those peaceful muslims are at it again..."

"Nothing confirmed yet that they are Muslims, but it's not a tough one to guess at."

"[The Muslims] continue to sound like a very reasonable, peaceful group."

This is a civil war. While they may happen to be muslim, that is merely a coincidence. All Muslims are not terrorists.

"Keep making excuses for them."

We're not making excuses for the terrorists. We're trying to show you that Muslisms, on the whole, are not bad people.

"You fail to see the venom in this religion. Not everyone lives their live that way of course. But, enough of them have lately to deserve a look at what these people are truly about."

Violent radicals are not specific to the Muslim faith. Calling the religion a violent one based on the actions of a few of its members is not the way to go.

See you take it too far. Why must you do that? All I'm saying is, it is not wrong to recognize the apparent violent nature of many muslims right now. It is in their bible and in many of their actions all around the world. Of course there are a large portion of peaceful muslims, btu unfortunately they don't seem to upset and outraged at what these "radicals" are doing in the name of their imaginary bullshit religion.

If there was a sect of Jewish people all around the world and they kept perpetrating bombings and beheadings in the name of the Jewish Faith, I'm thinking there would be mass distancing from normal peaceful Jews all around the world.

All other religions have had crazy fuckers kill many people in their name. Here are several pages of discussion about it.

Midnyte said that he thought the situation would be different if another faith was doing similar things. Christianity was brought up because most of the people who seem to be so against the Muslims, at least on this board, are Christians. PEOPLE ARE NOT TALKING SHIT ABOUT CHRISTIANS. They are trying to show you that any group of people large enough is going to have its extremists. The easiest way to try and get you to realize that not all Muslims are bad is if we can get you to realize that a religion that you identify with and don't categorize as wholely bad has done much of the same things both recently and throughout history.

[krin]

Cart, that didn't come out right. They were in responsible. I'm not very good at this baiting thing.

[Metanis]

Bullshit you fucking pillow biter, You cam right out along with your sideline sallys and attacked Christianity. that wasnt the argument the argument was about Muslims and are they peaceful.

Okay, I'm sure I'm just wasting my time, but what the hell, it's Friday. Here is a little recap of how this thread has progressed since you're so detached from reality.

"Those peaceful muslims are at it again..."

"Nothing confirmed yet that they are Muslims, but it's not a tough one to guess at."

"[The Muslims] continue to sound like a very reasonable, peaceful group."

This is a civil war. While they may happen to be muslim, that is merely a coincidence. All Muslims are not terrorists.

"Keep making excuses for them."

We're not making excuses for the terrorists. We're trying to show you that Muslisms, on the whole, are not bad people.

"You fail to see the venom in this religion. Not everyone lives their live that way of course. But, enough of them have lately to deserve a look at what these people are truly about."

Violent radicals are not specific to the Muslim faith. Calling the religion a violent one based on the actions of a few of its members is not the way to go.

See you take it too far. Why must you do that? All I'm saying is, it is not wrong to recognize the apparent violent nature of many muslims right now. It is in their bible and in many of their actions all around the world. Of course there are a large portion of peaceful muslims, btu unfortunately they don't seem to upset and outraged at what these "radicals" are doing in the name of their imaginary bullshit religion.

If there was a sect of Jewish people all around the world and they kept perpetrating bombings and beheadings in the name of the Jewish Faith, I'm thinking there would be mass distancing from normal peaceful Jews all around the world.

All other religions have had crazy fuckers kill many people in their name. Here are several pages of discussion about it.

Midnyte said that he thought the situation would be different if another faith was doing similar things. Christianity was brought up because most of the people who seem to be so against the Muslims, at least on this board, are Christians. PEOPLE ARE NOT TALKING SHIT ABOUT CHRISTIANS. They are trying to show you that any group of people large enough is going to have its extremists. The easiest way to try and get you to realize that not all Muslims are bad is if we can get you to realize that a religion that you identify with and don't categorize as wholely bad has done much of the same things both recently and throughout history.

You got too much time on your hands. But carry on, it was a good read.

[Dregor Thule]

Too much time? Do a search for Midnyte and muslims and that was probably just a small sampling of what is returned.

[archeiron]

I















I do...















I do this...















I do this to...















I do this to take...















I do this to take up...















I do this to take up space!


This thread has reached its bigotry saturation. Let's talk about jello.

I think that less deaths have been done in the name of jello than in the name of Islam.

Discuss.

[Sylvos]

The Blob killed lots.

[archeiron]

The Blob killed lots.

Dude! That wasn't real.