miir wrote:So would you consider the act of systematically wiping out all non-believers more acceptable than a few misplaced quotes taken out of context?
You claim that the quran teaches violence and hate, yet the christian bible claims to teach peace and forgiveness. Throughout history, christianity has been responsible for far more violence, hate and death than any other religion.
I find that ironic.
Comparing these times of vast information(internet, TV, radio) to the days of no fucking technology at all, makes no sense. You have to compare our modern times. In our modern times, it is the radical muslims exacting the vast majority of mass violence.
I also recognize the idiots in Ireland fighting over whether Protestants or Catholics are better. Fucking idiots.
miir wrote:OK, if you have to ignore the past in order to present a valid argument, I'll take that as my cue to stop wasting my time.
Dude. You have to look and see how different things were even 200 years ago. There was no form of decent science and instant information available to all. People actual believed in magic(religion) because they had no proof against.. Science and instant information have pretty much begun the destruction of religion and all its make believe nonsense. Muslims shouldn't believe in this horseshit so much they are willing to end a persons life over it. It's pathetic.
miir wrote:OK, if you have to ignore the past in order to present a valid argument, I'll take that as my cue to stop wasting my time.
Dude. You have to look and see how different things were even 200 years ago. There was no form of decent science and instant information available to all. People actual believed in magic(religion) because they had no proof against.. Science and instant information have pretty much begun the destruction of religion and all its make believe nonsense. Muslims shouldn't believe in this horseshit so much they are willing to end a persons life over it. It's pathetic.
Midnyte, are you aware that a Muslim nation has had a female prime minister while the US has not had a female president? Are you aware that in many places in the world there are Muslim, Christian, Hindi, and Buddist people peacefully co-existing.
Your blanket statements about Muslims is absurd. Try to remember that there are millions of Muslims in America: american citizens. Many of those are not Oriental or Arab in ethinicity.
Your blanket statements are hitting a hell of a lot more people than you even have a clue about.
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Muslims shouldn't believe in this horseshit so much they are willing to end a persons life over it. It's pathetic.
No one should really. Just don't single out Muslims for it. What about all those abortion clinic killings? (No, I don't mean the fetuses, I mean the killing of doctors by wacko christian fundies. =P)
But also, you should realize that a large part of what's going on with terrorists from Islamic countries stems from political struggles with Islam used as a justification to stir more people up. It's not the religion itself, it's the people. That region is possibly one of the most unstable beside Africa. At the heart of it is probably oil. Oil makes a big gap between the haves and have nots.
You've peaked my interest. Please quote from the Bible phrases talking about killing all the non-believers and such. Thanks.
You are kidding, right?
An Eye of an Eye a Tooth for a Tooth ring any bells?
The entire first half of the bible is all about getting even. God blew up entire cities just because they enjoyed sex0r. Moses unleashed tons of disasters on the egyptians to get his people released (Hmm sounds kind of like a terrorist?), God demanded that a guy chop his only son to prove his loyalty, and then there was the whole Baalite thing, just to name a few examples.
Don't give me that Old Testament doesn't count shit either, because the Old Testement is the first thing the Extra Crispies start quoting when asked to defend their homophobia or other prejudices. So obviously, the Old Testement DOES count, but in standard myopic fashion, the crispies only like to apply it when it fits their narrow little viewpoints. The radical Muslims you like to portray as mainstream are guilty of the same exact thing, as the Koran strictly prohibits violence except as a last resort in its anecdotal examples.
War is an option whose time has passed. Peace is the only option for the future. At present we occupy a treacherous no-man's-land between peace and war, a time of growing fear that our military might has expanded beyond our capacity to control it and our political differences widened beyond our ability to bridge them. . . .
Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
--RICHARD M. NIXON, "REAL PEACE" (1983)
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."
Dude. You have to look and see how different things were even 200 years ago.
I don't know what the fuck thread you've been reading, but Miir's been quoting examples from the last 5 or 10 years. He could also certainly add the Hutu Power movement, large portions of the Latin American unrest and Catholic pedophile priests to his list (coincidentally, some of those are going on RIGHT NOW!!!).
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Muslims shouldn't believe in this horseshit so much they are willing to end a persons life over it. It's pathetic.
No one should really. Just don't single out Muslims for it. What about all those abortion clinic killings? (No, I don't mean the fetuses, I mean the killing of doctors by wacko christian fundies. =P)
No arguements from me on this man. I completely agree.
Dude. You have to look and see how different things were even 200 years ago.
I don't know what the fuck thread you've been reading, but Miir's been quoting examples from the last 5 or 10 years. He could also certainly add the Hutu Power movement, large portions of the Latin American unrest and Catholic pedophile priests to his list (coincidentally, some of those are going on RIGHT NOW!!!).
Miir wrote:
Throughout history, christianity has been responsible for far more violence, hate and death than any other religion.
The same thread you've been reading, accept I actually read it. Thanks, drive thru.
miir wrote:There's a christian fellow on trial right now for ordering the slaughter and/or displacement of tens of thousands of muslims. You may want to get a bit more info on the situation in Chechnya
I've got 99 problems and I'm not dealing with any of them - Lay-Z
miir wrote:There's a christian fellow on trial right now for ordering the slaughter and/or displacement of tens of thousands of muslims. You may want to get a bit more info on the situation in Chechnya
Yep. I read it the first time. It's a horrible thing.
You've peaked my interest. Please quote from the Bible phrases talking about killing all the non-believers and such. Thanks.
You are kidding, right?
An Eye of an Eye a Tooth for a Tooth ring any bells?
The entire first half of the bible is all about getting even. God blew up entire cities just because they enjoyed sex0r. Moses unleashed tons of disasters on the egyptians to get his people released (Hmm sounds kind of like a terrorist?), God demanded that a guy chop his only son to prove his loyalty, and then there was the whole Baalite thing, just to name a few examples.
Not one of those "examples" had any bearing whatsoever on killing non-believers. Eye for an eye is talking about punishments for crimes. Moses led his people out of slavery from Egypt. He only did what he had to do to get his people out of slavery....so you can liken it to a civil war if you want, but it had nothing to do with non-believers.
The only thing I know of in the Bible that remotely fits what you are trying to say is Sodom and Gomorrah. They were not non-believers either. They were just sinning in amounts that were not reasonable. God stopped those types of punishments when he sent Jesus.
How so? I'd love to see proof positive that christanity as a whole has spread more hate, and caused more deaths than any other religion.
I actually considered researching all the wars I could find based on Christianity but ultimately I won't. You aren't really worth my time seeing as how you have yet to put anything useful forth. Go read some books, educate yourself.
You've peaked my interest. Please quote from the Bible phrases talking about killing all the non-believers and such. Thanks.
You are kidding, right?
An Eye of an Eye a Tooth for a Tooth ring any bells?
The entire first half of the bible is all about getting even. God blew up entire cities just because they enjoyed sex0r. Moses unleashed tons of disasters on the egyptians to get his people released (Hmm sounds kind of like a terrorist?), God demanded that a guy chop his only son to prove his loyalty, and then there was the whole Baalite thing, just to name a few examples.
Not one of those "examples" had any bearing whatsoever on killing non-believers. Eye for an eye is talking about punishments for crimes. Moses led his people out of slavery from Egypt. He only did what he had to do to get his people out of slavery....so you can liken it to a civil war if you want, but it had nothing to do with non-believers.
The only thing I know of in the Bible that remotely fits what you are trying to say is Sodom and Gomorrah. They were not non-believers either. They were just sinning in amounts that were not reasonable. God stopped those types of punishments when he sent Jesus.
So the Egyptians were followers of God? If not, then might they have been treated differently had they been god fearing? Your telling me the whole Moses snake eating the other guys snake wasn't a big symbolic religious dick waving contest? And Sodom and Gamorrah _were_ non-believers, in fact idolotry was among the reasons they got nuked. The Abraham example is just showing how God wants his servants to be willing to kill for him, even if its their own children, which is exactly the kind of shit that people are attributing to Islam. And the Baalite genocide was all about killing people who had a different faith.
And if the appearence suddenly nullifies all that went on in the Old Testament, then why even use it to justify homophobic, mysogenistic, and prejudice practices, except as a rationalization for your own narrow minded views? The answer is Selective Reading of the Bible.
Islamic extremists are no more guilty of this than crispy fundies, perhaps way less so when you consider the evidence. This isnt even throwing the Israelis into the mix for comparison purposes.
Bottom line, selective use of religious texts to meet personal agendas has occured in all religions. Islam hardly has a monopoly on it, and in the crispy's case, its even biblically endorsed.
War is an option whose time has passed. Peace is the only option for the future. At present we occupy a treacherous no-man's-land between peace and war, a time of growing fear that our military might has expanded beyond our capacity to control it and our political differences widened beyond our ability to bridge them. . . .
Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
--RICHARD M. NIXON, "REAL PEACE" (1983)
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."
How so? I'd love to see proof positive that christanity as a whole has spread more hate, and caused more deaths than any other religion.
I'll ignore the crusades, WWII and other wars. Has any religion other than christianity have anything remotely as horrific as the Inquisition in their history? A few hundred years of burning our women at the stake must be hard to top.
All posts are personal opinion.
My opinion may == || != my guild's.
"All spelling mistakes were not on purpose as I dont know shit ." - Torrkir
How so? I'd love to see proof positive that christanity as a whole has spread more hate, and caused more deaths than any other religion.
I'll ignore the crusades, WWII and other wars. Has any religion other than christianity have anything remotely as horrific as the Inquisition in their history? A few hundred years of burning our women at the stake must be hard to top.
They were witches though! And to prove you weren't a witch, you had to have a stone attached to your leg and jump into the water - if you lived, you were witch - if not, you weren't a witch.
Forthe wrote:Has any religion other than christianity have anything remotely as horrific as the Inquisition in their history?
My view of the Inquisition has been distorted by Mel Brooks! I picture it as a musical.
Mine has been distorted by Monty Python.
NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is suprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise....Our two
weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency....Our
three weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an
almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our four...no...
Amongst our weapons....Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as
fear, surprise.... I'll come in again.
The bottom line is that both the Bible and the Koran contain bloodthirsty passages about retribution on non-believers. One may contain a shade more than the other - I've read neither so I can't make a quantitative assessment other than being certain it's a non-zero amount in both cases.
All of these passages are rightfully ignored as prehistoric bullshit by modern, moderate practitioners of those religions (i.e 99+% of believers). Those same passages are acted upon by nutjob zealots of all persuasions. They've been acted on in the past and will be acted upon again in the future.
Certain persons here might want to make a qualitative judgement on the relative merits of certain religions based on their religious texts. I won't as I view them as all equally ridiculous and as bad as each other.
Has any religion other than Christianity have anything remotely as horrific as the Inquisition in their history?
I won't even try to quantify their suffering, but do you actually know how many people died during the inquisition?
I actually considered researching all the wars I could find based on Christianity but ultimately I won't. You aren't really worth my time seeing as how you have yet to put anything useful forth. Go read some books, educate yourself.
You won't or rather can't prove such a broad statement, but I challenge anyone here to try. Please include a graph if at all possible to make it easy for us 5th gayders to read.
Has any religion other than Christianity have anything remotely as horrific as the Inquisition in their history?
I won't even try to quantify their suffering, but do you actually know how many people died during the inquisition?
I actually considered researching all the wars I could find based on Christianity but ultimately I won't. You aren't really worth my time seeing as how you have yet to put anything useful forth. Go read some books, educate yourself.
You won't or rather can't prove such a broad statement, but I challenge anyone here to try. Please include a graph if at all possible to make it easy for us 5th gayders to read.
I bet you think the Holocaust never really happened because nobody can create an exact deathcount do you?
Estimates of the number of people killed during the Inquisition range from 1-6 million.
Estimates of the number of people killed during the Crusades is around 9 million.
Hitler, being a devout Roman Catholic was directly responsible for the deaths of nearly 6 million Jews.
----------------------------------
I hate christians as much as I hate buddhists and muslims.... which is to say I don't hate any religious group. I don't hold the actions of a few nutjob fundamentalists as a true reflection of the religion.
The KKK is a christian dominated group that spreads hate based on their interpretation of the bible.
Al Qaeda is a muslim dominated group that spreads terror based on their interpretation of the quaran.
You can find examples of extremists using their faith as justification for violence all throughout history.
I've got 99 problems and I'm not dealing with any of them - Lay-Z
The KKK is a christian dominated group that spreads hate based on their interpretation of the bible.
Al Qaeda is a muslim dominated group that spreads terror based on their interpretation of the quaran.
Wouldn't you agree then that there have been just as many people killed, and tortured in the name of islam as there have been in the name of christianity?
I am just trying to clarify weather or not you thought that christianity has had some sort of monopoly on fundamentalism throughout history.
Wouldn't you agree then that there have been just as many people killed, and tortured in the name of islam as there have been in the name of christianity?
No, I would not agree because that statement bears no semblance to fact.
I've got 99 problems and I'm not dealing with any of them - Lay-Z
The thing you have to remember is that Christianity has dominated much of what we consider to be "history" (read: stuff that was written down, and that we still have some of). So if you're asking if more human atrocities have been commited "in the name of" Christianity throughout "history" than any other faith, then the answer is you'd better fucking believe it.
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all. - Douglas Adams
Cartalas, why do you bother posting infantile shit like that?
You sound like a hyperactive 12 year old with tourettes.
If you have bothered to read the last page of the thread, you'd see that there can be tens of millions of deaths tied to christian based fundamentalism. I have yet to see anyone come up with any figures close to that for any other religion's fundamentalists.
I've got 99 problems and I'm not dealing with any of them - Lay-Z
miir wrote:Cartalas, why do you bother posting infantile shit like that?
You sound like a hyperactive 12 year old with tourettes.
If you have bothered to read the last page of the thread, you'd see that there can be tens of millions of deaths tied to christian based fundamentalism. I have yet to see anyone come up with any figures close to that for any other religion's fundamentalists.
Miir the post was not directed to you it was directed to Forthe now next time you jump down my throat for childish one liners. Take a look at you liberal Buddy there.
Of course we don't have figures on how many people this Isrealites killed in the OT, it was a lot I'm sure but probably not as much as different forms of Christanity.
I would like to disagree on one point though. A good number of people here keep trying to portray Hitler as a Catholic. That's like call L.Ron Hubbard a Christian because he went to church a couple of times as a child. Yes, Hitler was born into a Catholic family but was not practicing as an Adult and definitely not devout. Quite the opposite he focused very heavily on the Occult and even imprisioned many Catholic priests in prision camps along with the Jews.
I do think, although I can't link to it here, that he begain to recant once he knew he was going to loose and sent envoys to the Pope... along with a whole bunch of gold which I'm sure helped to setup ODESSA. If coming back to the church after doing all those things is devout then I conced the point but to me that isn't being a Christian... but of course neither was the Inqusition.
Maybe it's just the wording. I don't believe ANY of those acts listed in this thread are Chrisitan acts but I would agree that all but the atrocities in Germany were done in the name of Christanity... which is very sad indeed.
Marb, nobody is trying to portray christianity as a pack of bloodthirsty murderers.
The examples were shown merely as a counterpoint to the ignorant Midnyte spew about Islam having a inherant propensity to violence and hate.
Throughout history, there is no organized religion without thier fair share of nutjob fundamentalists. Try to say Islam is 'worse' than any other is ignorance and prejudice.
I've got 99 problems and I'm not dealing with any of them - Lay-Z
