Those peaceful Muslims are at it again...

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » September 1, 2004, 7:14 pm

Oh ho! Got me again! Managed to suck me into a "debate" with you. Fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » September 1, 2004, 7:15 pm

Nobody is giving Muslims a break. However, you don't see anyone screaming about all Americans when a few of them are murderers. Hell I just watched a guy get arrested for beating the crap out of his wife, but I wont say all American men are wife abusers. And as I've said before, I bet more people have been killed by the US lately than by muslims. Not to mention I bet more Americans are killed by other Americans than by muslims.

As for the school incident.. nasty.. very nasty.. nobody will defend that action. Nobody. But you have to look at the history behind it. If you had seen your husband and children tortured, abused, raped and killed like these "black widows" have, you would do whatever you could for payback as well. The real question is, however: Is this supported by the Chechnyan rebel leadership or is it a fraction working by itself? I hope for the last, because if not it would be a whole new chapter in how the Chechnyans fight. In fact it would be lowering themself to the level of the opposition. And no good can come out of that.

noel · Post by **noel** » September 1, 2004, 7:15 pm

Catholic priests have molested children therefore all catholics must be pedophiles.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » September 1, 2004, 7:17 pm

noel wrote:Catholic priests have molested children therefore all catholics must be pedophiles.

You've seen how they dress their daughters for school, right? Was there ever any doubt?

Midnyte_Ragebringer · September 1, 2004, 7:17 pm

Dregor Thule wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Dregor Thule wrote:Oh, is that all Look at most religions, they're violent. It gives believers that self-righteous fervor that is needed to support such charlatan organizations. American males are violent assholes. .
Exactly. So why give Islam a pass?
Why give Christianity a pass? Budhism? Mormons? Ok, sorry, that last one doesn't count as a bonified religion, my bad You can't give an entire religion a "pass" just as much as you can't condemn an entire religion. It's racism transferred to religion.

Exactly. If a sect of Buddha or Christianity was terroizing by killings, bombing, behading, etc in the name of said religion, we shouldn't give them a pass. I agree. At this point in time, it's the Muslims who are continually involved in violence and murder. It should be acknowledged.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » September 1, 2004, 7:32 pm

I didn't see anybody screaming at all Catholics during IRA's glory days.

Found this small part of a PBS Frontline article on IRA interesting:

There was a change in government in the United Kingdom in 1970. Harold Wilson's Labor government had implemented the civil rights reforms. A new conservative government led by Edward Heath came into office in May of 1970, which had very close links with the unionist government in Northern Ireland. It decided that the answer to the Northern Ireland problem was not more reforms, but a more punitive military action. It was determined to crush any signs of rebellion. So, it resorted to coercion rather than conciliation. As a result, it became, in the long view, a very powerful recruiting agent for the IRA.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/ira/

Sounds eerily familiar in a way, doesn't it?

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » September 1, 2004, 7:37 pm

You know, during the speech post 911 that Bush gave, I realized that the reason Bush specifically stated several times "terrorism of global reach" was to exclude the Israeli and IRA situations all in a neatly worded sentence. Peachy.

noel · Post by **noel** » September 1, 2004, 7:38 pm

I've listed at least four different examples of why Midnyte's conclusions are a logical fallacy, but apparently logic is not his strongpoint.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » September 1, 2004, 7:50 pm

Krimson Klaw wrote:You know, during the speech post 911 that Bush gave, I realized that the reason Bush specifically stated several times "terrorism of global reach" was to exclude the Israeli and IRA situations all in a neatly worded sentence. Peachy.

Yeah but then you can start having definition arguments about "global reach". Especially since both IRA and Israel have very close ties to the US/Americans.

Double standards. Funfun stuff!

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » September 1, 2004, 8:00 pm

On a side note, I just read an interesting thing in a Norwegian newspaper. It was a Chechnyan teacher living in Norway who sat down to answer questions sent in by readers live, and he is a typical Muslim Chechnyan on the run from the Russian army. This one point he made stands out very clearly and is extremely powerful (errors made in translation are my faults not his): "The moment we get a single evidence that it is the Chechnyan leadership that is behind these terrorist acts I and others WILL regard then as my enemy".

Midnyte_Ragebringer · September 1, 2004, 8:51 pm

Kelshara wrote:On a side note, I just read an interesting thing in a Norwegian newspaper. It was a Chechnyan teacher living in Norway who sat down to answer questions sent in by readers live, and he is a typical Muslim Chechnyan on the run from the Russian army. This one point he made stands out very clearly and is extremely powerful (errors made in translation are my faults not his): "The moment we get a single evidence that it is the Chechnyan leadership that is behind these terrorist acts I and others WILL regard then as my enemy".

UT OH!!! You know what happens when a Muslim declares someone is an enemy.

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » September 1, 2004, 8:54 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Kelshara wrote:On a side note, I just read an interesting thing in a Norwegian newspaper. It was a Chechnyan teacher living in Norway who sat down to answer questions sent in by readers live, and he is a typical Muslim Chechnyan on the run from the Russian army. This one point he made stands out very clearly and is extremely powerful (errors made in translation are my faults not his): "The moment we get a single evidence that it is the Chechnyan leadership that is behind these terrorist acts I and others WILL regard then as my enemy".
UT OH!!! You know what happens when a Muslim declares someone is an enemy.

The same thing as every other person on earth would do if they were being killed by their own government?

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » September 1, 2004, 9:50 pm

Well, Mid, I hate to break it to you but teh Crispies are involved in just as much (if not more) acts of violence, many of them arguably terrorist. Being Muslim is not the common factor of being a fanatical idiot, any religion will fit that precursor. For that matter, the employment of any philosphy that allows the rationalization of violence is at fault here.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » September 1, 2004, 10:08 pm

UT OH!!! You know what happens when a Muslim declares someone is an enemy.

Why don't you tell me Oh Glorious One?

If you don't see the importance of that statement then you are even more of a blind, stumbling fool than I thought you were. And that says a lot.

Post by **Sylvus** » September 1, 2004, 11:20 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Exactly. If a sect of Buddha or Christianity was terroizing by killings, bombing, behading, etc in the name of said religion, we shouldn't give them a pass. I agree. At this point in time, it's the Muslims who are continually involved in violence and murder. It should be acknowledged.

Man, how can you not get it? Disregarding all of the other ridiculous shit you've ever said, this particular instance has nothing to do with the fact that these people are Muslims. It has to do with the fact that the Russians bombed the bejeezus out of them.

If the next eight serial killers caught in the United States had red hair, would you assume that all people with red hair were violent killers? Probably not, because that's as fucking asinine as saying the coincidence that these people are predominantly Muslim has anything to do with why they are rebelling against the Russians.

Muslims make up the second largest religion in the world, behind Christianity, with about 22% of the world's population being Muslim. It only goes to figure that you're going to hear a good deal of violence in the world having to do with them.

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » September 2, 2004, 3:39 am

Cartalas wrote:Mydnight has made the same type of generalizing comment that all you lemmings well not all of you but you have supported it.

I.e All Republicans Suck
i.e White middle class males suck

The most recent is the attack on all americans for what you think we are doing wrong. For example the Olympics some of made comments about poor sportsmanship only becuase they were americans.

So before you start pointing your fingers at Mdynight look at your bigot selfs im sure you will be suprised.

someone translate this pls?

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » September 2, 2004, 5:36 am

They aren't acting in the name of Allah, or trying to bring Sharia Law to Russia, or any of that bullshit. I agree with others here that the fact that they're muslims is coincidental.
I also agree that their actions are abhorrent and totally indefensible no matter what the provocation.

But Midnyte is grasping at the Muslim facet of these assholes and holding it up as a sign that all muslims are bad and the religion is violent. Which is the classic bigotry.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » September 2, 2004, 11:38 am

noel wrote:I've listed at least four different examples of why Midnyte's conclusions are a logical fallacy, but apparently logic is not his strongpoint.

Now if breathing would stop being his strongpoint the world would be a much better place. It really troubles me that people like him exist in a country that's supposed to stand for the opposite of everything he is.

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » September 2, 2004, 12:04 pm

vn_Tanc wrote:They aren't acting in the name of Allah, or trying to bring Sharia Law to Russia, or any of that bullshit. I agree with others here that the fact that they're muslims is coincidental.
I also agree that their actions are abhorrent and totally indefensible no matter what the provocation.

But Midnyte is grasping at the Muslim facet of these assholes and holding it up as a sign that all muslims are bad and the religion is violent. Which is the classic bigotry.

If one were to be truly objective here, then one would have to concede that Muslims are involved in many (most?) of the deadly conflicts around the world. Is that a coincidence? Media bias? Hand of God?

In the name of objectitvity one would also conclude that an alliance of Christians and secularists are 2nd on the list. That would be the USA and Britain partly for the action in Iraq but also for squaring off against Muslim terrorists around the world.

If you are an aetheist how do you reconcile the lack of religious freedom in the Muslim world? In their world you wouldn't dare admit you were an aetheist. That's worse then professing you are a Christian. Here you can bitch to your heart's content.

archeiron · Post by **archeiron** » September 2, 2004, 12:09 pm

Metanis wrote:
vn_Tanc wrote:They aren't acting in the name of Allah, or trying to bring Sharia Law to Russia, or any of that bullshit. I agree with others here that the fact that they're muslims is coincidental.
I also agree that their actions are abhorrent and totally indefensible no matter what the provocation.

But Midnyte is grasping at the Muslim facet of these assholes and holding it up as a sign that all muslims are bad and the religion is violent. Which is the classic bigotry.
If one were to be truly objective here, then one would have to concede that Muslims are involved in many (most?) of the deadly conflicts around the world. Is that a coincidence? Media bias? Hand of God?

In the name of objectitvity one would also conclude that an alliance of Christians and secularists are 2nd on the list. That would be the USA and Britain partly for the action in Iraq but also for squaring off against Muslim terrorists around the world.

If you are an aetheist how do you reconcile the lack of religious freedom in the Muslim world? In their world you wouldn't dare admit you were an aetheist. That's worse then professing you are a Christian. Here you can bitch to your heart's content.

You have established a loose correlation at best. Not all nasty countries in the world are Muslim, nor are all Muslim countries nasty terrorist harbouring states.

Would you care to explain why it is that a Muslim nation has had a female prime minister when the US hasn't managed to get a woman anywhere near the top of our government (president, vp, speaker of house, etc)?

Your logic still needs a check up; your statements do NOT "necessarily follow" from one another to establish any clear negativity towards Islam.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » September 2, 2004, 12:13 pm

If you are an aetheist how do you reconcile the lack of religious freedom in the Muslim world?

What "Muslim World"? In a handful of muslim states there is a lack of religious tolerance but the vast majority of muslims exist in polyreligious societies. From the mingled muslims and christians in most of the middle-east, to the buddhist/muslim far-east via the hindu/muslim/sikh/christian indian sub-continent. By and large these societies live in close proximity without having explosive jihads every other week even if there are examples of extremist whackos of every denomination to be found.

So I'll concede the rest of your assertions but I'm not going to listen to you painting the whole "muslim world" as violently intolerant due to the actions of 3-4 states.

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » September 2, 2004, 12:25 pm

archeiron wrote:You have established a loose correlation at best. Not all nasty countries in the world are Muslim, nor are all Muslim countries nasty terrorist harbouring states.

Mission complete.

archeiron wrote:Would you care to explain why it is that a Muslim nation has had a female prime minister when the US hasn't managed to get a woman anywhere near the top of our government (president, vp, speaker of house, etc)?

WTF does this have to do with my post or the thread in general.

archeiron wrote: Your logic still needs a check up; your statements do NOT "necessarily follow" from one another to establish any clear negativity towards Islam.

That would be because I wasn't trying to establish a negativity toward Islam. The fact you misjudge me and my post is a problem with your logic... not mine. Examine your bias... it's unzipped.

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » September 2, 2004, 12:35 pm

vn_Tanc wrote:...but I'm not going to listen to you painting the whole "muslim world" as violently intolerant due to the actions of 3-4 states.

Houston! We have lift off!

Epiphany.

(A little side-note... there are no equivalent 3 or 4 Christian, or Buddist, or Hindu, or Wiccan, or even Secular states acting in this manner.)

miir · Post by **miir** » September 2, 2004, 12:53 pm

A little side-note... there are no equivalent 3 or 4 Christian, or Buddist, or Hindu, or Wiccan, or even Secular states acting in this manner

Perhaps you should do a little more research into that, Metanis.

There's a christian fellow on trial right now for ordering the slaughter and/or displacement of tens of thousands of muslims. You may want to get a bit more info on the situation in Chechnya.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » September 2, 2004, 12:55 pm

miir wrote:
A little side-note... there are no equivalent 3 or 4 Christian, or Buddist, or Hindu, or Wiccan, or even Secular states acting in this manner
Perhaps you should do a little more research into that, Metanis.

There's a christian fellow on trial right now for ordering the slaughter and/or displacement of tens of thousands of muslims. You may want to get a bit more info on the situation in Chechnya.

Ok there is one now list the other 2-3 please

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » September 2, 2004, 12:58 pm

Does the government have to be an officially Christian government, or does it simply need to be run by Christians in a majority-Christian nation? Because if the prerequisite is the latter, I can think of a large number, if it's the former, I'd have to look into it a bit.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » September 2, 2004, 1:53 pm

(A little side-note... there are no equivalent 3 or 4 Christian, or Buddist, or Hindu, or Wiccan, or even Secular states acting in this manner.)

Milosevic wanted Muslims exterminated.
Chechnya
Myanmar (secular government oppresses all opposition - its not based on religion but its the exact same mechanic and just as abhorrent)
China
Several African states

Killing in the name of a belief system, be it political or religious, is nothing new and it goes on everywhere. I'm not going to condemn Islam as bloodthirsty due to the actions of extremists and more than I'm going to mistrust all forms of government due to abuses of power by some states.

miir · Post by **miir** » September 2, 2004, 2:04 pm

Cartalas wrote:
miir wrote:
A little side-note... there are no equivalent 3 or 4 Christian, or Buddist, or Hindu, or Wiccan, or even Secular states acting in this manner
Perhaps you should do a little more research into that, Metanis.

There's a christian fellow on trial right now for ordering the slaughter and/or displacement of tens of thousands of muslims. You may want to get a bit more info on the situation in Chechnya.
Ok there is one now list the other 2-3 please

Actually that was two, you stupid fucking retard.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » September 2, 2004, 2:10 pm

miir wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
miir wrote:
A little side-note... there are no equivalent 3 or 4 Christian, or Buddist, or Hindu, or Wiccan, or even Secular states acting in this manner
Perhaps you should do a little more research into that, Metanis.

There's a christian fellow on trial right now for ordering the slaughter and/or displacement of tens of thousands of muslims. You may want to get a bit more info on the situation in Chechnya.
Ok there is one now list the other 2-3 please
Actually that was two, you stupid fucking retard.

But hey lookie here they both include muslims. I see a trend forming.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » September 2, 2004, 2:11 pm

miir wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
miir wrote:
A little side-note... there are no equivalent 3 or 4 Christian, or Buddist, or Hindu, or Wiccan, or even Secular states acting in this manner
Perhaps you should do a little more research into that, Metanis.

There's a christian fellow on trial right now for ordering the slaughter and/or displacement of tens of thousands of muslims. You may want to get a bit more info on the situation in Chechnya.
Ok there is one now list the other 2-3 please
Actually that was two, you stupid fucking retard.

Sorry my missread you fucking butt pirate.

miir · Post by **miir** » September 2, 2004, 2:17 pm

Cartalas wrote:
miir wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
miir wrote:
A little side-note... there are no equivalent 3 or 4 Christian, or Buddist, or Hindu, or Wiccan, or even Secular states acting in this manner
Perhaps you should do a little more research into that, Metanis.

There's a christian fellow on trial right now for ordering the slaughter and/or displacement of tens of thousands of muslims. You may want to get a bit more info on the situation in Chechnya.
Ok there is one now list the other 2-3 please
Actually that was two, you stupid fucking retard.
But hey lookie here they both include muslims. I see a trend forming.

But hey lookie here they both incluse christians. I see a trend forming.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » September 2, 2004, 2:19 pm

miir wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
miir wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
miir wrote: Perhaps you should do a little more research into that, Metanis.

There's a christian fellow on trial right now for ordering the slaughter and/or displacement of tens of thousands of muslims. You may want to get a bit more info on the situation in Chechnya.
Ok there is one now list the other 2-3 please
Actually that was two, you stupid fucking retard.
But hey lookie here they both include muslims. I see a trend forming.
But hey lookie here they both incluse christians. I see a trend forming.

But only one side RIGHT NOW!!!! is holding children hostage.

miir · Post by **miir** » September 2, 2004, 2:24 pm

Cartalas wrote:
miir wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
miir wrote:
Cartalas wrote: Ok there is one now list the other 2-3 please
Actually that was two, you stupid fucking retard.
But hey lookie here they both include muslims. I see a trend forming.
But hey lookie here they both incluse christians. I see a trend forming.
But only one side RIGHT NOW!!!! is holding children hostage.

But only one side MURDERED tens of thousands (men women and CHILDREN!!!) in Serbia.

I'm starting to see why you argue like this, Cartalas.
It requires minimal thought and you don't have to worry about using logic.

Why bother digging up facts and developing counterpoints when you can express your point with profanity, caps and PUNCTUATION!!!!!!!!!!

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » September 2, 2004, 2:26 pm

Hmm I thought I said RIGHT NOW!!!! The man you are talking about is being punished, But that okay dig up the past if it helps you . I am living in the NOW!!! and the NOW!!! says that the Muslim nation needs to contol there radicals.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · September 2, 2004, 2:28 pm

009.029
YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
PICKTHAL: Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.
SHAKIR: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/

Educate yourselves to all the vile and venom and hate within this book. You guys are always saying how you hate those whom "hate", but give this religion a pass.

You dislike Christianty, but give Islam a pass. It's so fuckign hypocritical it's beyond funny. It has become scary.

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » September 2, 2004, 2:34 pm

Is that good enough reason to view EVERY Muslim as guilty? Even the innocent? No one is debating the fact that the religion is bad (or at least some parts), but not everyone in the religion IS evil.

Edit: you need help Mid, you are so full of hate, pretty soon they will take your kids away from you.

miir · Post by **miir** » September 2, 2004, 2:43 pm

You dislike Christianty, but give Islam a pass. It's so fuckign hypocritical it's beyond funny. It has become scary.

Hey moron, we're using the same fucked-up-in-the-head logic to make you see how much of a racist, prejudiced and ignorant shitheaded bigot you really are.

You're unable to even realise how much of a bigot you really are.
We are bringing up Christian involvement in heinous acts of violence to help you realise that you cannot blame an entire religion on the acts of a few radicals.
We understand that the KKK, while being a christian group, does not reflect the values of christianity as a whole. We understand that the IRA terrorists while christian did not represent christianity. In the same respect a suicide bomber or kidnapper that happens to be Islamic does not represent the entirety of Islam.

If you fail to understand and accept that concept, which is the epitome of prejudice, you must understand why you are lebeled as a racist and a bigot.

In our eyes, you are no better than the Islamic fundamentalist who views all Americans as evildoers who must be murdered.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · September 2, 2004, 2:47 pm

Lynks wrote:Is that good enough reason to view EVERY Muslim as guilty? Even the innocent? No one is debating the fact that the religion is bad (or at least some parts), but not everyone in the religion IS evil.

Edit: you need help Mid, you are so full of hate, pretty soon they will take your kids away from you.

No, actually, I am not. You refuse to listen every fucking time I agree that, of course, not EVERY muslim is guilty. I just want people to recognize the basis of this religion seems to be filled with violence, hatred, venom, vile, and poison and every other word that applies. That is all I have ever said. The religion itself bothers me. As does any organized religion. I also see the positives in some organized religions. Especially when they contain so many great positives stories and messages. Islam seems to have way too much negativity.

miir · Post by **miir** » September 2, 2004, 2:48 pm

Hmm I thought I said RIGHT NOW!!!! The man you are talking about is being punished, But that okay dig up the past if it helps you . I am living in the NOW!!! and the NOW!!! says that the Muslim nation needs to contol there radicals.

So you can boster your argument by what is happening right now, but I can't use examples that might have happened last week or last year?

As for 'controlling their radicals'... should we blame the Vatican for not controling Milosevic or Hitler?

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » September 2, 2004, 2:51 pm

miir wrote:As for 'controlling their radicals'... should we blame the Vatican for not controling Milosevic or Hitler?

Of course not, they don't live NOW!...

Midnyte_Ragebringer · September 2, 2004, 2:51 pm

miir wrote:
You dislike Christianty, but give Islam a pass. It's so fuckign hypocritical it's beyond funny. It has become scary.
Hey moron, we're using the same fucked-up-in-the-head logic to make you see how much of a racist, prejudiced and ignorant shitheaded bigot you really are.

You're unable to even realise how much of a bigot you really are.
We are bringing up Christian involvement in heinous acts of violence to help you realise that you cannot blame an entire religion on the acts of a few radicals.
We understand that the KKK, while being a christian group, does not reflect the values of christianity as a whole. We understand that the IRA terrorists while christian did not represent christianity. In the same respect a suicide bomber or kidnapper that happens to be Islamic does not represent the entirety of Islam.

If you fail to understand and accept that concept, which is the epitome of prejudice, you must understand why you are lebeled as a racist and a bigot.

In our eyes, you are no better than the Islamic fundamentalist who views all Americans as evildoers who must be murdered.

Miir. Stop. Take a deep breath.

Negativity breeds negativity. The Quran contains mass amounts of negativity. It has shown how it produces much negativity. It's a fact. It common sense. If you and others wish to continue your pathetic need to label others to detract from common sense, you go ahead and do it. You are only harming yourself by stunting your personal and intellectual growth.

miir · Post by **miir** » September 2, 2004, 2:59 pm

Negativity breeds negativity. The Quran contains mass amounts of negativity. It has shown how it produces much negativity. It's a fact. It common sense. If you and others wish to continue your pathetic need to label others to detract from common sense, you go ahead and do it. You are only harming yourself by stunting your personal and intellectual growth

We aren't labeling you... you're labeling yourself.

Do you have any muslim friends?
Have you done anything more than take a few badly translated quotes from the quran out of context?
Do understand anything of the fundamental teachings of Islam?

Every single one of your comments on Islam show nothing but ignorance.

Thess · Post by **Thess** » September 2, 2004, 3:01 pm

I actually try to stay out of religious arguments - but I do slightly agree with Midnyte here.

A lot of the text books in Saudi arabia do teach hatred. While it isn't the religion itself that teaches hatred, it is being taught in classrooms.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » September 2, 2004, 3:06 pm

Thess wrote:I actually try to stay out of religious arguments - but I do slightly agree with Midnyte here.

A lot of the text books in Saudi arabia do teach hatred. While it isn't the religion itself that teaches hatred, it is being taught in classrooms.

Text books maybe never been there...the Koran itself is, i would say, less negative on whole than the bible...About equal if you remove the old testament...

Midnyte_Ragebringer · September 2, 2004, 3:09 pm

Arborealus wrote:
Thess wrote:I actually try to stay out of religious arguments - but I do slightly agree with Midnyte here.

A lot of the text books in Saudi arabia do teach hatred. While it isn't the religion itself that teaches hatred, it is being taught in classrooms.
Text books maybe never been there...the Koran itself is, i would say, less negative on whole than the bible...About equal if you remove the old testament...

You've peaked my interest. Please quote from the Bible phrases talking about killing all the non-believers and such. Thanks.

Thess · Post by **Thess** » September 2, 2004, 3:10 pm

Yeah that's why I tried (probably poorly) to disassociate the text books with the religion itself.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » September 2, 2004, 3:13 pm

miir wrote:
Hmm I thought I said RIGHT NOW!!!! The man you are talking about is being punished, But that okay dig up the past if it helps you . I am living in the NOW!!! and the NOW!!! says that the Muslim nation needs to contol there radicals.
So you can boster your argument by what is happening right now, but I can't use examples that might have happened last week or last year?

As for 'controlling their radicals'... should we blame the Vatican for not controling Milosevic or Hitler?

Hell yes we should off The Vatican should of tried to control Milosevic and Hitler.

As for last week and last year Milosevic is neither of those.

miir · Post by **miir** » September 2, 2004, 3:20 pm

So would you consider the act of systematically wiping out all non-believers more acceptable than a few misplaced quotes taken out of context?

You claim that the quran teaches violence and hate, yet the christian bible claims to teach peace and forgiveness. Throughout history, christianity has been responsible for far more violence, hate and death than any other religion.

I find that ironic.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » September 2, 2004, 3:21 pm

Thess wrote:Yeah that's why I tried (probably poorly) to disassociate the text books with the religion itself.

Nah you were clear my post was really just elaborating on the relative levels of negativity in the 2 works i mentioned...I am however ignorant about any other texts etc...

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » September 2, 2004, 3:23 pm

miir wrote:So would you consider the act of systematically wiping out all non-believers more acceptable than a few misplaced quotes taken out of context?

You claim that the quran teaches violence and hate, yet the christian bible claims to teach peace and forgiveness. Throughout history, christianity has been responsible for far more violence, hate and death than any other religion.

I find that ironic.

You find it Ironic as well I, I never said I toll the christian side, I Said the Vatican should of interviened in Hitler and Milo, All Im saying is right now the muslim religion seems to be the market standard on your religious violence.